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Middle East/All : CILICIA help authenticating an o/p

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rrraphy
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Retired Ap. Book Mod, Pres Golden Gate Stamp Club, Hi Tech Consultant
11 Aug 2019
11:26:41pm
It has been a few months since I have added anything of value in this collection (Saudi Arabia). Bidding has been active and prices too high for my taste, so I let it slip and went to another one of my challenges....CILICIA.

Anyone collecting Cilicia? I just added the elusive Scott #55. Quick photo for reference (I will get a better scan later)

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rrr...

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PhilaStore
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12 Aug 2019
09:27:20am
re: CILICIA help authenticating an o/p

I have a few for sale

https://www.webstore.com/shop.php?user_id=166240&keywords_search=CILICIA&form_search_proceed=Search+Store

Manfred

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rrraphy
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Retired Ap. Book Mod, Pres Golden Gate Stamp Club, Hi Tech Consultant
12 Aug 2019
01:43:46pm
re: CILICIA help authenticating an o/p

Thanks Manfred. A nice collection of Cilicia in one place (something quite rare), and there are 4 stamps I could use in my collection. I will private message you an offer for them, and also offer you some real bargains in partial offset, from my duplicates, that you don't currently offer, as well as some you just have 1 copy of...should you be interested.

Now here are a few corrections you need to make to your listings (yes they are hard to correctly identify):
You list 3 Sc #66 on page 1. They are actually #53 (they are 6-point star)
You list 2 Sc #43 on page 2. They are actually #34 (they are 6-point star)
You list 1 correct Sc #90 on page 3 and 2 incorrect ones. The incorrect ones are actually #76 (they have 6-point stars).
I will private message you for my offer.
Regards,
rrr...

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rrraphy
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Retired Ap. Book Mod, Pres Golden Gate Stamp Club, Hi Tech Consultant
13 Aug 2019
11:49:28am
re: CILICIA help authenticating an o/p

I need some help trying to authenticate the o/p on the Postage Due (Scott J4) stamp, shown below.
There is quite a bit of literature on counterfeit air mail Cilicia, and I am also aware of large number of counterfeits in general for all Cilicia o/p. Ebay is full of expensive offers (many with almost identical o/p), and given the rarity of the stamps, I am dubious of their authenticity. This is a case where the more stamps are available and look similar, the greater grows my concern!
The corresponding Turkey stamp catalogs at a low $1.50 value for M. making the potential profit from applying a counterfeit o/p quite substantial.

I don't want to bias anyone looking to give their own opinion, but here are my observations.

I am in particular concerned here about the shape of the two Cs (an area that counterfeiters often have difficulties with), the size of the L and the shape of the E.
But I have no source reference, and I would appreciate if anyone has expertise, or knows of source reference material.

Thanks for your help.
rrr...

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SForgCa
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13 Aug 2019
02:28:44pm
re: CILICIA help authenticating an o/p

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Of note is the inclination of the letters - I would expect to see print variations

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rrraphy
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Retired Ap. Book Mod, Pres Golden Gate Stamp Club, Hi Tech Consultant
14 Aug 2019
03:14:04pm
re: CILICIA help authenticating an o/p

Thanks Ron (SForgCa).
Very helpful!
I was checking on ebay and Hipstamp and I am astonished at the number of obviously counterfeits for Cilicia, all priced at a high percentage of current catalog.
Most of them are easy to spot, so I cannot understand dealers who don't hesitate to list them with no caveat and no warning, as if authentic!
Don't you think that at the prices quoted they could at minimum check, or issue a warning?
rrr...

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"E. Rutherford: All science is either physics or stamp collecting."
michael78651
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SOR Auctioneer
14 Aug 2019
04:13:39pm
re: CILICIA help authenticating an o/p

I cannot understand dealers who don't hesitate to list them with no caveat and no warning, as if authentic!

Because they want to dump the stamp on the collector (who often doesn't take the time to read the catalog) and make it the collector's problem, while the seller gets the money.

Sellers also don't take the time to read the catalog. Usually when told that a stamp is bogus, they do remove it. Other times they get indignant. (See the last sentence below as regards to selling bogus material on Stamporama.)

Don't you think that at the prices quoted they could at minimum check, or issue a warning?

Yes. A collector or dealer who identifies such a stamp sees the warning in the catalogs. To ignore or not follow upon that warning by either: presuming the stamp is bogus; trying to verify the stamp as genuine or bogus; or, providing a warning to potential buyers is, in my opinion immoral and/or fraudulent. Sellers on Stamporama are required to at the least provide a warning.

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15 Aug 2019
04:02:45pm
re: CILICIA help authenticating an o/p

Interesting - I'd never heard of Cilicia until my dealer put out his last list so I grabbed the small lot. It'll be very interesting to go through them.

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rrraphy
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Retired Ap. Book Mod, Pres Golden Gate Stamp Club, Hi Tech Consultant
28 Jun 2020
07:32:19pm
re: CILICIA help authenticating an o/p

Returning to Cilicia the mystery O/p on 5 pa, Niguel, or anyone else who may know, What do you think of this o/p on a stamp currently on auction on one of the sites?

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Thanks for your opinion.
rrr...
PS The o/p is under the cancellation, and measures slightly over 17.5 mm

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"E. Rutherford: All science is either physics or stamp collecting."
michael78651
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SOR Auctioneer
28 Jun 2020
10:20:00pm
re: CILICIA help authenticating an o/p

Do you think it is Scott #9A?

It does not look good to me, using the overprint illustration in Scott. However, being that these were handstamped onto the stamp, any wiggle with the overprinting device could make it look like this too. Unless you have a known genuine stamp to compare it with, I'd be suspicious of this one. Someone else may have a different opinion.

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rrraphy
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Retired Ap. Book Mod, Pres Golden Gate Stamp Club, Hi Tech Consultant
28 Jun 2020
10:54:16pm
re: CILICIA help authenticating an o/p

Yes Michael, Scott 9A. I am suspicious as well Michael, and I will pass although it comes from a legitimated dealer, who took the trouble to inspect it with a microscope and measure it accurately. He has a fairly large selection of Cilicia, but several have cancellations that look too uneven, bleeding ink or just uneven...so I think he got a collection of stamps from unverifiable origins, with many counterfeit o/ps, and this one raises serious doubts.
I am going to wait some more to fill this void in my collection.
A few weeks back, after several years of waiting without ever seing one, I got a chance to bid on what looked like a good specimen...and I lost.
I guess I am not alone looking for this elusive stamp and I lost to a higher last second bid!
rrr...


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