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General Philatelic/Newcomer Cnr : Italian States stamps.

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gerom
04 Aug 2019
01:35:26pm
I bought defective stamps of Italian States at a low price, to see the characteristics of genuines stamps but I think they are forgeries.For Romagna stamps I am sure that they are.
For others I need your help.
I start with Tuscany stamps.
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michael78651
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SOR Auctioneer
04 Aug 2019
02:43:35pm
re: Italian States stamps.

Comparing the two stamps with the diagram and the list of forgery identifiers in The Serrane Guide, I would say that the bottom stamp is a forgery. The top one has many attributes of a forgery. My inclination would be to say that it is probably also a forgery.


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SForgCa
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04 Aug 2019
02:45:10pm
re: Italian States stamps.

Tuscany stamps can look very worn out so one would need a REALLY good scan to tell the difference
Best to see for yourself if it meets the following requirements for both stamps
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There are some 28 different forgeries of this issue and a few like the Fournier are very well done
The 2nd one is definitely a poor forgery

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michael78651
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SOR Auctioneer
04 Aug 2019
02:52:26pm
re: Italian States stamps.

The "guide" has a drawing of the image later posted. I have no doubt now that the 2 Crazie stamp is also a forgery.

There is also the issue of the paper. The forgeries are on white, thin paper. The originals are on hand made thick paper. You shouldn't be able to see the image from the back of the stamp.

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michael78651
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SOR Auctioneer
04 Aug 2019
02:58:05pm
re: Italian States stamps.

On the Roman States stamps, any that are not on glazed paper are unfinished remainders, and were not issued.

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SForgCa
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04 Aug 2019
03:03:52pm
re: Italian States stamps.

This genuine (good for all values) will confirm your Romagna stamps
As for the Papal states, they are by far the most forged States, so that's for later
The Naples ones have different genuine characteristics for each value.
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gerom
04 Aug 2019
03:40:20pm
re: Italian States stamps.

Thank you Michel and Ron.
I didn't have high hopes with these stamps.The paper is 0,05 and 0.07mm.The watermark of paper was my single atu.I have a minimicroscope Bresser and tomorrow I will check the 2 grazie stamp (to me is night).Romagna stamps are forgeries alls.

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michael78651
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04 Aug 2019
06:03:15pm
re: Italian States stamps.

A missing watermark on the Tuscany stamps is indeed a forgery. However, The Serrane Guide states that 50% of the forgeries have a watermark.

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gerom
05 Aug 2019
10:40:57am
re: Italian States stamps.

I couldn't reach a conclusion about stamp 2 gr (Scott # 13).
The paper is white-gray, o,o6mm thick, semi-transparent and the dimensions of the stamp and the watermark are correct according to the Serrane guide.
The design are the same with the Scott#5 (less pearls on the crown)but is correct (see Serrane guide)
Since I cannot achieve a better resolution with the mobile phone I tried to make a picture with the indication of the Bresser minimicroscope.
What intrigues me is the lack of "foulage" - as the French say - characteristic of the printing tipographic process.
Is it a lithographic print?
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gerom
05 Aug 2019
04:32:15pm
re: Italian States stamps.

I continue with SARDINIA stamp Scott#11
The number 1 looks good, 31 perles horizontaly,36 perles verticaly.The colors (I think)are:
ochre,yelowish-brown and dark-brown.But they are genuines or forgeries?Thank you for your aid.
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SForgCa
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05 Aug 2019
05:50:33pm
re: Italian States stamps.

The Tuscany is indeed a forgery
Without a lot of comparative work I cannot determine the culprit - there are probably about 30 different forgeries of this stamp ranging from very crude to excellent and this one is in the very good class
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Shown is the 1853 genuine
The fingers should overlap on the shield
The crown jewels are the wrong size
The dark spaces in the mane are too large and details are lacking
Several letters are misshapen like the S noted
The top letters are too short
Lots of small details different
A litho forgery

As for the paper - no match there
1851 - blue
1853 - Greyish Blue
1857 - White

The watermark - these were faked by applying an oily substance on a die
However the image provided is not the proper watermark
Bear in mind that the Seranne guide although good was not always correct
From 2 specialized catalogs
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SForgCa
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05 Aug 2019
08:19:12pm
re: Italian States stamps.

Re Sardinia
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These are the areas to check esp.
12 - the break
5 the shape and too much curl on the right one

I like the first one you posted but not #2 #3

As for colors - between 1858 & 1863 these were at least 40 variations with almost as many colors
The forgeries tend to be from good to excellent and there are some 15 or so variations
Even some very modern dangerous ones like this
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gerom
06 Aug 2019
02:50:04am
re: Italian States stamps.

Thank you again Ron.You send me all the design elements,but no the "philatelic eye" formed by experience or artistic skills.My schooling at an engineer not help me very much and too a missing of specialised books.I have Serrane but I constated too the mistakes (I don't buy a lot of cancelled Lubeck stamps-a mistake of "LUBECK BAHNHOF" type cancell"-lack a two points above U)
I check in light the watermark of Tuscany stamp and I think it looks at a thin paper.My surprise is appear in addition a line? or letters?
What you think?
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gerom
07 Aug 2019
12:49:15pm
re: Italian States stamps.

Stamps 2 and 3 have not a break (12 indication).I don't understand the 7,8 and 9.
I have one .Genuine or forgerie?Thank for your help.Image Not Found

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SForgCa
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07 Aug 2019
04:08:32pm
re: Italian States stamps.

This stamp can be found in the expensive dark blue and the VERY expensive light blue - hence a good forgery opportunity
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So a few of the numerous issues
1. There should be a large white pearl here
2. This O should be very square
3. The O should be in line with the tip of the frames
4. This feature should touch the frame
5. This should have a pronounced and extended curve
At some point, maybe, who knows, I will get to these states and put out an article - perhaps?? - very time consuming

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gerom
08 Aug 2019
02:01:45am
re: Italian States stamps.

I hoped that by buying these defective stamps, I would find some genuines for my reference.
I have the 3 blue,one with BOLOGNA cancelation,but not the year.It look genuine?
Thank you for your indications.I will check them.

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