Discussion - Member to Member Sales - Research Center
Discussion - Member to Member Sales - Research Center
07:05:52pm
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A significant percentage of stamps sold through venues like eBay are misidentified, altered, or have hidden condition issues. Quality stamps sold by quality sellers rarely fall under a ‘good deal’; these folks know what a quality stamp is worth and price it fairly. Quality stamps sold by quality sellers are not the type of listings that tops the list if a buyer sorts eBay listings by ‘Lowest Price First’. Quality stamps sell for premium prices.
Of course there are always stories of the ‘great find’; it is fun to think that we might stumble across a rare stamp being sold dirt cheap. But the truth is that for each one of these stories there are literally hundreds of thousands of transactions which are not. If you invest a decade or so into learning a specialized area of philately, tune up your computer searching skills, you can somewhat increase the odds in finding a hidden treasure.
But what unfortunately happens far too often is that people build a collection thinking they making ‘good buys’. They purchase misidentified stamps, simply mount the misidentified stamps in their albums, and then pat themselves on the back thinking they are a good philatelist and a good shopper. They tell their families that they have a collections worth a lot of money. But at some point someone has to break the bad news to a family member that the collection is worth a few hundred dollars at best. Having catalog publishers communicating fantasy numbers does not help anything.
The art of building a relationship with a quality seller you trust is paramount if you are buying investment grade stamps; do not expect to buy a ‘hidden treasure’. If a hobbyist tries to find hidden treasures amongst the current 423,012 US eBay stamp listings they will burn through many months of mortgage payments before ever finding one. But just like lottery marketing the ‘I found a treasure on eBay’ stories continue to appear, and eBay is laughing all the way to the bank.
Just enjoy the hobby, only spend the amount of money on each purchase equal to the amount of enjoyment that you will get out of it. If you do this, then any dollar amount that might be later realized will be 100% profit. If you took up fishing as a new hobby would you do it thinking that one day you would be able to sell your used equipment for decent money? Or would you enjoy the experience and opportunity to get out in nature and wet a line?
Don
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I equate ebay and similar sites with junk shops and flea markets. They are interesting places to pick up junk and common used things but not a place to spend a lot of money on a particular item. As long as you keep in mind everything you see there has been looked over a zillion times and passed through many hands and most likely has something that needs fixing, then you have the right approach.
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See it, Examine it front and back, Touch it, Smell it, Question it, before spending wads of cash.
Photos and scans depend on the quality of equipment used, both by the seller and the buyer.
Ebay and other sites, including this one, are fine for run of the mill stuff, but nothing beats having it in your physical presence for examination when you are going to part with lots of your hard-earned cash!!
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04:55:45pm
Thanks for the good advice, I think some of the US stuff is mislabeled due to carelessness. I occasionally pick up stuff on e-bay that I shouldn't but most of my expensive stuff comes from a dealer I have been buying from since 1972, they really know what they are doing and have a very good reputation. If they are unsure of a stamp they reduce the price and make sure I know. It's very difficult to find someone that you can trust. Some of the early US stuff is very difficult and you have to be very careful. We all make mistakes though, hopefully most of what we do is correct!
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I've been meaning to write to the board regarding this topic. Check out the Letters To The Editor in the American Philatelist May 2019 issue. On page 402.
A writer goes off on a tangent, blaming eBay for all of philately's ills. He's talking about the "common as dirt" stamps that sometimes get listed for hundreds of dollars by both scammers and people who have no clue as to their value. He states this is causing the hobby irreparable damage! And to add insult to injury he illustrates his letter with my beloved Ben Franklin, Scott 300! Bah!
As I was reading this, I'm thinking the biggest issue we have are the stamp catalogs with fantasy pricing. I think it's more damaging for a new collector to have found the stamp in a big fancy catalog that appears to be an authority due to it's legacy, only to find the stamp is virtually sale proof. It's not a new problem, it's been going on for eons, as back when I was in my teens in the 1970s, it was common for dealers to use the Harris paperback catalog, which was also Harris's sales catalog, as their sales sheet, stating that they sold at "50 or 60% of Harris".
And this will probably lead to the demise of printed catalogs! Think about it, the pricing is such a joke that nobody is running to buy new catalogs ever year... or even every five. It's pretty common to get advise on this and other boards that a ten year old Scott's Specialized USA will do for identifying classic stamps, just ignore the values!
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The most common error I see in my British commonwealth is watermark identification. I do not know if they really check it, bought it improprly described, or just wanted to fill a spot.
I recall one album had a set of Canada wildings mounted as phosphor types and none were.
As for catalogs and catalog values, that is best started in another thread.
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02:15:23pm
".... I think some of the US stuff is mislabeled due to carelessness. ...."
I bet ignorance and deceit rate even higher than carelessness.
You are best served by dealing with known respectable sellers despite what may seem like a higher price.
The games played by eBay sellers just turn me off.
If you were looking for a decent meal would you choose such venders because the horsemeat is cheaper.
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There are a number of fraudsters on e-bay, but to be honest I think they don't make much out of collectors with even a modicum of knowledge, but much from optimists. I think most of the "crooks" are quite easily recognisable, as they are not very plausible.
If an offer looks "too good to be true" it probably is. Spending big bucks should be with a reputable dealer - however some "reputable" dealers aren't, and that is where it gets tricky.
However there are a lot more who make genuine mistakes and misdescribe ( sometimes optimistically ) more valuable variants of stamps. To be honest some also misdescribe the good stuff as the cheap one.
I would only buy "bulk lots" sight unseen, and even then would expect a few "lemons" - large quantities of stamps mean that there is insufficient time to the seller to ensure the best quality.
Malcolm
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11:03:20am
I mostly but lots on e-bay and tend to stay away from most sellers I'm not familiar with. There's one dealer I really like because he shows every page of whatever lot he is selling. He doesn't guarantee his stuff, but I have had very few problems. I remember once he was selling a huge lot of early Russia. I looked at every page, figured out how much I needed and a fair price. I actually needed almost half the lot, so I offered him about half his price since it was from his web site and not his auction store. He took my price and shipped the order. It was still expensive, but my regular dealer bought the leftovers which helped a lot. I only buy smaller lots or individual stamps if the dealer seems legit and the stamps are straight forward. I very rarely spend large amounts on line - not a good habit to get into. I buy more expensive stamps from my regular local dealer. I trust him totally and have been dealing with him or his father since 1972, I don't even always check his stamps even though I probably should. It's your money - spend it wisely. Someone years ago had that as a slogan!!!
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02:35:13am
An expression from HS Spanish class, now often quoted by The People's Court judge, Marilyn Milian;
" .... Lo barato resulta ser caro.....", The cheap comes out expensive, more or less.
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Wow. As an extreme newbie, I have been having a hard time finding good, reliable information that I can understand. I appreciate every single post in this discussion.
It is an incredibly educational thread!
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This is my diabetic cat OBI! I think, therefore I am - I think! Descartes, sort of!
03 Jun 2019
07:05:52pm
I decided to take a look at some of my U.S. stamps lately. I've been buying on line a bit lately and from dealers and I tend to be too trusting! I was checking colour shades in my US postage due stamps and have come to the conclusion that some are not what they are supposed to be. I also checked types of paper in some of my early US stamps and am sure there are mistakes there as well. Maybe we should be more careful when we buy! For example I thought I had US J30 ( expensive ) but am now sure it is not vermilion since it doesn't match #29 which seems to be correct. Moral of the story: Check every stamp very carefully and if it is not correct.....RETURN TO SENDER!
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re: How often are our stamps not what we think?
A significant percentage of stamps sold through venues like eBay are misidentified, altered, or have hidden condition issues. Quality stamps sold by quality sellers rarely fall under a ‘good deal’; these folks know what a quality stamp is worth and price it fairly. Quality stamps sold by quality sellers are not the type of listings that tops the list if a buyer sorts eBay listings by ‘Lowest Price First’. Quality stamps sell for premium prices.
Of course there are always stories of the ‘great find’; it is fun to think that we might stumble across a rare stamp being sold dirt cheap. But the truth is that for each one of these stories there are literally hundreds of thousands of transactions which are not. If you invest a decade or so into learning a specialized area of philately, tune up your computer searching skills, you can somewhat increase the odds in finding a hidden treasure.
But what unfortunately happens far too often is that people build a collection thinking they making ‘good buys’. They purchase misidentified stamps, simply mount the misidentified stamps in their albums, and then pat themselves on the back thinking they are a good philatelist and a good shopper. They tell their families that they have a collections worth a lot of money. But at some point someone has to break the bad news to a family member that the collection is worth a few hundred dollars at best. Having catalog publishers communicating fantasy numbers does not help anything.
The art of building a relationship with a quality seller you trust is paramount if you are buying investment grade stamps; do not expect to buy a ‘hidden treasure’. If a hobbyist tries to find hidden treasures amongst the current 423,012 US eBay stamp listings they will burn through many months of mortgage payments before ever finding one. But just like lottery marketing the ‘I found a treasure on eBay’ stories continue to appear, and eBay is laughing all the way to the bank.
Just enjoy the hobby, only spend the amount of money on each purchase equal to the amount of enjoyment that you will get out of it. If you do this, then any dollar amount that might be later realized will be 100% profit. If you took up fishing as a new hobby would you do it thinking that one day you would be able to sell your used equipment for decent money? Or would you enjoy the experience and opportunity to get out in nature and wet a line?
Don
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07:56:20am
re: How often are our stamps not what we think?
I equate ebay and similar sites with junk shops and flea markets. They are interesting places to pick up junk and common used things but not a place to spend a lot of money on a particular item. As long as you keep in mind everything you see there has been looked over a zillion times and passed through many hands and most likely has something that needs fixing, then you have the right approach.
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09:52:17am
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re: How often are our stamps not what we think?
See it, Examine it front and back, Touch it, Smell it, Question it, before spending wads of cash.
Photos and scans depend on the quality of equipment used, both by the seller and the buyer.
Ebay and other sites, including this one, are fine for run of the mill stuff, but nothing beats having it in your physical presence for examination when you are going to part with lots of your hard-earned cash!!
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Login to Like.
This is my diabetic cat OBI! I think, therefore I am - I think! Descartes, sort of!
04 Jun 2019
04:55:45pm
re: How often are our stamps not what we think?
Thanks for the good advice, I think some of the US stuff is mislabeled due to carelessness. I occasionally pick up stuff on e-bay that I shouldn't but most of my expensive stuff comes from a dealer I have been buying from since 1972, they really know what they are doing and have a very good reputation. If they are unsure of a stamp they reduce the price and make sure I know. It's very difficult to find someone that you can trust. Some of the early US stuff is very difficult and you have to be very careful. We all make mistakes though, hopefully most of what we do is correct!
Login to Like
this post
re: How often are our stamps not what we think?
I've been meaning to write to the board regarding this topic. Check out the Letters To The Editor in the American Philatelist May 2019 issue. On page 402.
A writer goes off on a tangent, blaming eBay for all of philately's ills. He's talking about the "common as dirt" stamps that sometimes get listed for hundreds of dollars by both scammers and people who have no clue as to their value. He states this is causing the hobby irreparable damage! And to add insult to injury he illustrates his letter with my beloved Ben Franklin, Scott 300! Bah!
As I was reading this, I'm thinking the biggest issue we have are the stamp catalogs with fantasy pricing. I think it's more damaging for a new collector to have found the stamp in a big fancy catalog that appears to be an authority due to it's legacy, only to find the stamp is virtually sale proof. It's not a new problem, it's been going on for eons, as back when I was in my teens in the 1970s, it was common for dealers to use the Harris paperback catalog, which was also Harris's sales catalog, as their sales sheet, stating that they sold at "50 or 60% of Harris".
And this will probably lead to the demise of printed catalogs! Think about it, the pricing is such a joke that nobody is running to buy new catalogs ever year... or even every five. It's pretty common to get advise on this and other boards that a ten year old Scott's Specialized USA will do for identifying classic stamps, just ignore the values!
Login to Like
this post
re: How often are our stamps not what we think?
The most common error I see in my British commonwealth is watermark identification. I do not know if they really check it, bought it improprly described, or just wanted to fill a spot.
I recall one album had a set of Canada wildings mounted as phosphor types and none were.
As for catalogs and catalog values, that is best started in another thread.
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this post
Silence in the face of adversity is the father of complicity and collusion, the first cousins of conspiracy..
05 Jun 2019
02:15:23pm
re: How often are our stamps not what we think?
".... I think some of the US stuff is mislabeled due to carelessness. ...."
I bet ignorance and deceit rate even higher than carelessness.
You are best served by dealing with known respectable sellers despite what may seem like a higher price.
The games played by eBay sellers just turn me off.
If you were looking for a decent meal would you choose such venders because the horsemeat is cheaper.
Login to Like
this post
07:04:28am
re: How often are our stamps not what we think?
There are a number of fraudsters on e-bay, but to be honest I think they don't make much out of collectors with even a modicum of knowledge, but much from optimists. I think most of the "crooks" are quite easily recognisable, as they are not very plausible.
If an offer looks "too good to be true" it probably is. Spending big bucks should be with a reputable dealer - however some "reputable" dealers aren't, and that is where it gets tricky.
However there are a lot more who make genuine mistakes and misdescribe ( sometimes optimistically ) more valuable variants of stamps. To be honest some also misdescribe the good stuff as the cheap one.
I would only buy "bulk lots" sight unseen, and even then would expect a few "lemons" - large quantities of stamps mean that there is insufficient time to the seller to ensure the best quality.
Malcolm
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this post
This is my diabetic cat OBI! I think, therefore I am - I think! Descartes, sort of!
16 Jun 2019
11:03:20am
re: How often are our stamps not what we think?
I mostly but lots on e-bay and tend to stay away from most sellers I'm not familiar with. There's one dealer I really like because he shows every page of whatever lot he is selling. He doesn't guarantee his stuff, but I have had very few problems. I remember once he was selling a huge lot of early Russia. I looked at every page, figured out how much I needed and a fair price. I actually needed almost half the lot, so I offered him about half his price since it was from his web site and not his auction store. He took my price and shipped the order. It was still expensive, but my regular dealer bought the leftovers which helped a lot. I only buy smaller lots or individual stamps if the dealer seems legit and the stamps are straight forward. I very rarely spend large amounts on line - not a good habit to get into. I buy more expensive stamps from my regular local dealer. I trust him totally and have been dealing with him or his father since 1972, I don't even always check his stamps even though I probably should. It's your money - spend it wisely. Someone years ago had that as a slogan!!!
Login to Like
this post
Silence in the face of adversity is the father of complicity and collusion, the first cousins of conspiracy..
17 Jun 2019
02:35:13am
re: How often are our stamps not what we think?
An expression from HS Spanish class, now often quoted by The People's Court judge, Marilyn Milian;
" .... Lo barato resulta ser caro.....", The cheap comes out expensive, more or less.
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06:19:06pm
re: How often are our stamps not what we think?
Wow. As an extreme newbie, I have been having a hard time finding good, reliable information that I can understand. I appreciate every single post in this discussion.
It is an incredibly educational thread!
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this post