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For People Who Love To Talk About Stamps



What we collect!
What we collect!


General Philatelic/Gen. Discussion : CBSA , Canada Post and Revenue Canada

 

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cougar
Members Picture


03 Apr 2019
04:33:56pm
What I will share below is outside our stamp collectors realm but the way things are going I wouldn't be surprised if it crosses over to our hobby one day.

My Ebay purchases can well be put into two categories - stamp related and fishing related. Stamps get delivered to me with little cause for frustration other than the odd CP sticker going over the stamp, biro cancellations or some issue related to the Global Shipping Program.

Not so easy with my fishing related purchases.

Last month I buy a used US made rod for $155. It gets shipped to me promptly with a tracking number provided. Two days later the seller notified me that he had made a mistake, shipping the wrong rod. He then ships my rod and gives me a second tracking number. So far so good.

I thought I would be able to turn back the first rod upon delivery. Went through all possible places in town, all courier services once I noticed that rod is about to be delivered. Nobody had a clue where it was. Then, one day at 3pm they caught my wife at home and delivered that wrong rod making her also pay $36 in charges assessed by the Canadian Border Agency.

Those charges include: GST (government sales tax), PST (provincial sales tax) and postal charges of about $9. No tariff or duties since the item was made in North America.

With the package in hand I enter the PO about 2 hours later and ask them to take it back, send it back to the sender and refund me all fees. Hm....how do you think this went?

It wasn't going to work at all. But I knew the guy at the PO, so he accepted the package and sent it back to the Ebay seller without asking me for a new payment. As to the CBSA charges, he had no idea how I can get those back.

Turns out the CBSA has a procedure. I have to fill out forms, send them proof the item was shipped back mail all that to them and hopefully get a check for only the PST and GST portion of the payment. The rest? My loss.

So I complained to them. If they took my $36 in a second with ease, I told them they should have had a procedure to refund the same $36 in one transaction with ease, without asking me to complete bureaucratic forms.

But what also upsets me is that a similar transaction in Canada (if I bought the rod on Kijiji or Facebook and picked it up in person) would not have attracted any GST and PST charges. Because our government wouldn't even know the transaction took place! And isn't a sales tax payable when something is sold in the country, not outside?

My personal conclusion is that my government tries to put its hands into my pocket any chance they get, charge sales taxes on goods manufactured 20 years ago that have nothing to do with them. They have not budged a finger to deserve those taxes. But they have control over the borders and over Canada Post, so whatever they see moving through appears to be fair game for them to add extortionist charges to.

When are they going to start opening up my letters to valuate the shipment of stamps and add their GST, PST and maybe customs duties if the stamp happens to be from outside North America?
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cdj1122
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Silence in the face of adversity is the father of complicity and collusion, the first cousins of conspiracy..

04 Apr 2019
02:27:16am
re: CBSA , Canada Post and Revenue Canada

" .... Government must ceaselessly feed its ever-expanding maw. ...."

And what happens when the government does not make every effort to exercise "its ever expanding maws"?
Starting about forty years ago the US began to cut taxes in an effort to starve those grasping claws with one after another feel good tax reduction which everyone, (I think) including myself, gratefully accepted. As of but few minutes ago, the great United States of America is $22,027,753,571,841.32 and counting, increasing at $45.486 dollars per second (*** Yes, per second) all with the fantasy belief that the growth in the supposedly expanding economy will eventually reach a point where it will be caught and paid off.
One thing I am certain of is that that will never happen in my lifetime.
Beyond that would venture into the prescribed political area so I'll say no more..

*** 60 x 60 x 24 x $45.486 = $3,929,990.40 per day
Pretty soon they will be talking real money.

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".... You may think you understood what you thought I said, but I'm not sure you realize that what you think you heard is not what I thought I meant. .... "
cougar
Members Picture


04 Apr 2019
08:04:22pm
re: CBSA , Canada Post and Revenue Canada

Anglophile, I believe stamps are not currently taxed because they fall under the "Artwork" category and those are exempt from tax.

The argument I tried to make to the CBSA was that in a similar transaction in Canada I pay not tax, mostly because those transactions are not documented with paperwork and do not go through an agency under Government control.

They replied to me that a company importing goods pay those same taxes. I know if they paid GST they will claim it back and get a full reimbursement for it. I am not sure if they pay PST (on a large box of new fishing rods for example).

The other interesting thing to mention is that a seller who makes less than $30,000 in revenues a year is not required to charge GST and remit GST to the government. A casual person selling personal items will easily fall in this group.

So I do not see the legality of this tax being charged. I am actually prepared to waste $200 in court fees, just to file claims against the CBSA, Revenue Canada and Canada Post, to show them how happy I am with what they are doing to me.

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nlroberts1961

12,8 cm Kanone 43 L/55 in blueprints only

04 Apr 2019
08:27:00pm
re: CBSA , Canada Post and Revenue Canada

Been a while since I dealt with GST & PST and even H(ybrid)ST but if I recall, there shouldn't be any GST on used goods sold for less than the original purchase price. This seems to make logical sense since GST is essentially a value added tax.
If the company was wholesaling in canada they would get refunded any pst they paid since it is a consumer tax. GST for wholesalers is worked out periodically by offsetting GST collected vs GST paid and any difference being remitted or refunded so its a net zero cost from the wholesalers viewpoint.
Were the goods identified as used to customs?

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"Euros think a 100 miles is a long way, Americans think a 100 yrs is a long time..."
cougar
Members Picture


05 Apr 2019
03:17:33am
re: CBSA , Canada Post and Revenue Canada

No, the item was not identified as used on the package.

I made it known to CBSA the item was used and has not been in production since the early 90's in a complaint to them.

Now get this: I provided them with my home phone number and asked them to call me after 5pm. They phoned me at work at 9am the very next day! Those must be real spices in the government to track me that fast!

And they still argued the taxes were payable.

So yes, I made this argument to them. If a company imports goods, usually new items, they may pay GST which will be then refunded to them by Revenue Canada the very next month. When they start re-selling the items, and if they are large enough, they will collect GST and PST on the sales and remit it to Revenue Canada. However if the seller has revenues of less than $30,000/year they are not required to collect and remit tax.

With this in mind, I do not believe the GST was owed. PST from what I know is not paid at the border. A company would self-assess PST on large purchases made outside the province and then remit it.

As to the added processing charges, again, I paid my shipping fees which must cover all processing. If CBSA did any work on their own (that I did not ask them or gave authorization for, it must be at their own cost.


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Author/Postings
Members Picture
cougar

03 Apr 2019
04:33:56pm

What I will share below is outside our stamp collectors realm but the way things are going I wouldn't be surprised if it crosses over to our hobby one day.

My Ebay purchases can well be put into two categories - stamp related and fishing related. Stamps get delivered to me with little cause for frustration other than the odd CP sticker going over the stamp, biro cancellations or some issue related to the Global Shipping Program.

Not so easy with my fishing related purchases.

Last month I buy a used US made rod for $155. It gets shipped to me promptly with a tracking number provided. Two days later the seller notified me that he had made a mistake, shipping the wrong rod. He then ships my rod and gives me a second tracking number. So far so good.

I thought I would be able to turn back the first rod upon delivery. Went through all possible places in town, all courier services once I noticed that rod is about to be delivered. Nobody had a clue where it was. Then, one day at 3pm they caught my wife at home and delivered that wrong rod making her also pay $36 in charges assessed by the Canadian Border Agency.

Those charges include: GST (government sales tax), PST (provincial sales tax) and postal charges of about $9. No tariff or duties since the item was made in North America.

With the package in hand I enter the PO about 2 hours later and ask them to take it back, send it back to the sender and refund me all fees. Hm....how do you think this went?

It wasn't going to work at all. But I knew the guy at the PO, so he accepted the package and sent it back to the Ebay seller without asking me for a new payment. As to the CBSA charges, he had no idea how I can get those back.

Turns out the CBSA has a procedure. I have to fill out forms, send them proof the item was shipped back mail all that to them and hopefully get a check for only the PST and GST portion of the payment. The rest? My loss.

So I complained to them. If they took my $36 in a second with ease, I told them they should have had a procedure to refund the same $36 in one transaction with ease, without asking me to complete bureaucratic forms.

But what also upsets me is that a similar transaction in Canada (if I bought the rod on Kijiji or Facebook and picked it up in person) would not have attracted any GST and PST charges. Because our government wouldn't even know the transaction took place! And isn't a sales tax payable when something is sold in the country, not outside?

My personal conclusion is that my government tries to put its hands into my pocket any chance they get, charge sales taxes on goods manufactured 20 years ago that have nothing to do with them. They have not budged a finger to deserve those taxes. But they have control over the borders and over Canada Post, so whatever they see moving through appears to be fair game for them to add extortionist charges to.

When are they going to start opening up my letters to valuate the shipment of stamps and add their GST, PST and maybe customs duties if the stamp happens to be from outside North America?

Like
Login to Like
this post

Silence in the face of adversity is the father of complicity and collusion, the first cousins of conspiracy..
04 Apr 2019
02:27:16am

re: CBSA , Canada Post and Revenue Canada

" .... Government must ceaselessly feed its ever-expanding maw. ...."

And what happens when the government does not make every effort to exercise "its ever expanding maws"?
Starting about forty years ago the US began to cut taxes in an effort to starve those grasping claws with one after another feel good tax reduction which everyone, (I think) including myself, gratefully accepted. As of but few minutes ago, the great United States of America is $22,027,753,571,841.32 and counting, increasing at $45.486 dollars per second (*** Yes, per second) all with the fantasy belief that the growth in the supposedly expanding economy will eventually reach a point where it will be caught and paid off.
One thing I am certain of is that that will never happen in my lifetime.
Beyond that would venture into the prescribed political area so I'll say no more..

*** 60 x 60 x 24 x $45.486 = $3,929,990.40 per day
Pretty soon they will be talking real money.

Like
Login to Like
this post

".... You may think you understood what you thought I said, but I'm not sure you realize that what you think you heard is not what I thought I meant. .... "
Members Picture
cougar

04 Apr 2019
08:04:22pm

re: CBSA , Canada Post and Revenue Canada

Anglophile, I believe stamps are not currently taxed because they fall under the "Artwork" category and those are exempt from tax.

The argument I tried to make to the CBSA was that in a similar transaction in Canada I pay not tax, mostly because those transactions are not documented with paperwork and do not go through an agency under Government control.

They replied to me that a company importing goods pay those same taxes. I know if they paid GST they will claim it back and get a full reimbursement for it. I am not sure if they pay PST (on a large box of new fishing rods for example).

The other interesting thing to mention is that a seller who makes less than $30,000 in revenues a year is not required to charge GST and remit GST to the government. A casual person selling personal items will easily fall in this group.

So I do not see the legality of this tax being charged. I am actually prepared to waste $200 in court fees, just to file claims against the CBSA, Revenue Canada and Canada Post, to show them how happy I am with what they are doing to me.

Like
Login to Like
this post
nlroberts1961

12,8 cm Kanone 43 L/55 in blueprints only

04 Apr 2019
08:27:00pm

re: CBSA , Canada Post and Revenue Canada

Been a while since I dealt with GST & PST and even H(ybrid)ST but if I recall, there shouldn't be any GST on used goods sold for less than the original purchase price. This seems to make logical sense since GST is essentially a value added tax.
If the company was wholesaling in canada they would get refunded any pst they paid since it is a consumer tax. GST for wholesalers is worked out periodically by offsetting GST collected vs GST paid and any difference being remitted or refunded so its a net zero cost from the wholesalers viewpoint.
Were the goods identified as used to customs?

Like 
1 Member
likes this post.
Login to Like.

"Euros think a 100 miles is a long way, Americans think a 100 yrs is a long time..."
Members Picture
cougar

05 Apr 2019
03:17:33am

re: CBSA , Canada Post and Revenue Canada

No, the item was not identified as used on the package.

I made it known to CBSA the item was used and has not been in production since the early 90's in a complaint to them.

Now get this: I provided them with my home phone number and asked them to call me after 5pm. They phoned me at work at 9am the very next day! Those must be real spices in the government to track me that fast!

And they still argued the taxes were payable.

So yes, I made this argument to them. If a company imports goods, usually new items, they may pay GST which will be then refunded to them by Revenue Canada the very next month. When they start re-selling the items, and if they are large enough, they will collect GST and PST on the sales and remit it to Revenue Canada. However if the seller has revenues of less than $30,000/year they are not required to collect and remit tax.

With this in mind, I do not believe the GST was owed. PST from what I know is not paid at the border. A company would self-assess PST on large purchases made outside the province and then remit it.

As to the added processing charges, again, I paid my shipping fees which must cover all processing. If CBSA did any work on their own (that I did not ask them or gave authorization for, it must be at their own cost.


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