Discussion - Member to Member Sales - Research Center
Discussion - Member to Member Sales - Research Center
Here is where you should point out important examples that were omitted from the other sections.
We will go a bit slower with this one since the other threads may influence our decisions here.
Let's start with Offices Abroad:
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For the rest of the album, I had no problem making a working copy, but I am having a great deal of difficulty with this part.
It is just selected, but that means I have to think more about what to include and what to leave out. I will be basing this on what I have and what I am interested in.
For example, there are two offices of France in China listed, but in the catalogue there are about seven. I already have one of the other offices, and will substitute it in. This shouldn't violate the spirit of this section.
Jan
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Jan,
I agree that we have a LOT more flexibility in this section without varying from the spirit of the Smithsonian pages. I moved one stamp from here to the main collection, added a couple of extras, and have several stamps on a stock page with an eye toward adding a page or two.
Next page:
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Where I have Calchi (Karki), Smithsonian had a duplicate from a prior page. We all pondered what the mysterious stamp REALLY was, and it turns out NOTHING was supposed to be there. I elected to use the Calchi stamp I bought!
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Local stamps Part 2:
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Lars,
I'm glad you are forcing me to think through this part of the album. I went through the Scott catalogues and made the following summary of offices abroad (that actually issued stamps):
Entries in black are in the Smithsonian album, while those in red are not. (There are only twelve in black, but the Smithsonian album has two for each of France in China and in Africa and I have not listed the Polish Government in exile.) The numbers in brackets refer to the number of distinct varieties (mostly towns).
I have Spain with a question mark for Tangiers. (Scott says office in Tangiers, but not office abroad, as it does for France and GB there.)
There may be errors in the table, but is a starting point. I am going to try to use this table as a basis for my expanded album (one from each section?)
Jan
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Jan,
I just LOVE it when someone pulls outs tables, charts, and/or graphs!!!
I think you have a good plan to cover every cell of your table. My plan is less ambitious - just cover the rows and columns. I see that Smithsonian has the columns covered, but the rows, not so much. Let's talk about Poland and Russia. You don't show either covered at all, but Smithsonian has a backwards version for an office abroad for Poland, and maybe that's what they meant. But there is no doubt that Smithsonian has ZERO Russia offices abroad and THAT is a hole that I believe needs to be filled.
That stamp will fit nicely between Poland and USA.
Thanks so much for the input!
Lars
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The table is thought provoking.
A couple of additions spring to mind:
- British Post Office in Bangkok
- Romanian Post Offices in the Turkish Empire.
However, it's hard to know what is included or excluded from the counts.
For example, does Scott include the stamps for the French Post Offices in Ethiopia?
The "Austrian Post Offices in Crete" stamps were not really that at all.
They were stamps in French currency issued for use in various parts of the Turkish Empire.
They were used in Crete but so were the Turkish currency stamps.
I'm sure the name stuck just because they first appeared around the time of the stamps for the British and Russian Administrations (or "Post Offices") in Crete and the French and Italian Post Offices on the island.
The Austrian Post Offices had already been active on the island for decades.
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Hi Nigel,
Thanks for the response. Indeed, I did miss Romania in Turkish Empire.
Bangkok is already in the Smithsonian Album under Thailand.
According to the Stamp Atlas, the French offices in Ethiopia used stamps inscribed "LEVANT". According to Scott, these were used in the Turkish Empire (where I counted them).
Again Crete gives a problem. I'll need to think about it.
Jan
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Jan and Nigel - a question:
Is there a particular one or two Russian offices abroad that are better known that the rest. I would prefer that it NOT be in China because I think we have that covered! So one or two top choices for Turkish/Ottoman Empire. I think one of those would be a nice rounding out of what Smithsonian has to offer.
Lars
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Hi Lars,
That's a very interesting question!
The Russian Post Offices stamps basically consisted of:
- China (general issues)
- Crete (although I believe Scott quite reasonably calls these Russian Administration rather than Post Offices)
- Turkish Empire (general issues)
with specific overprints for each of the following within the Turkish Empire:
- Constantinople (Istanbul), Kerassunde (Giresun), Smyrne (Izmir), Trebizonde (Trabzon), Dardanelles (Canakalle), Rizeh (Rize) in modern Turkey
- Jaffa, Jerusalem in modern Israel
- Beyrouth (Beirut) in modern Lebanon
- Mont-Athos (Mount Athos), Salonica (Thessaloniki), Mételin (Mytilene) in modern Greece
I'd suggest a good coverage could be:
- 1 from China
- 1 from Crete
- 1 of the general ROPiT stamps for the Turkish Empire, and maybe
- 1 stamp from an individual city, such as Jerusalem or Constantinople?
I think a minimal coverage would be one from China and one from the Turkish Empire.
I realise I'm biased towards Crete as I have a specialised collection of the Russian Crete stamps but they were essentially local issues so perhaps should be out of scope here.
The Russian post offices in Crete operated in what was still technically Ottoman territory although in practice the Turks has lost control of the island by then.
Another approach (in terms of predecessors rather than BOB) could perhaps be one from China, one general stamp for the Turkish Empire (or for one of the towns in modern Turkey) and one from each of Beirut, Jerusalem, and Thessaloniki, so five stamps in all.
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Hi Lars and Jan,
I have a couple of follow-up comments:
The Bangkok stamps were for a British post office in Siam.
However, I accept that it may be better when there only one or two stamps shown for a country there's no need to move any foreign post offices to the BOB.
The French Post Offices in Ethiopia are an interesting case. 
They used three stamps in the French Merson and Mouchon designs in French currency that were not issued in the offices in the Turkish Empire.
By the time these stamps were introduced the offices in the Turkish Empire were already using stamps surcharged in the Turkish currency.
However, I'm sure there is no need to include them here!
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I'm going to show the Occupation pages since they were referenced elsewhere:
That's not even the right stamp for Russia on page 127. I hope to learn more if I can get the PDF file from Smithsonian.
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"The French Post Offices in Ethiopia are an interesting case.
They used three stamps in the French Merson and Mouchon designs in French currency that were not issued in the offices in the Turkish Empire."
I wish I did not just learn this, as I though I had this collecting area under control. Could you provide some more details, so I can start hunting these down?
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""The French Post Offices in Ethiopia are an interesting case.
They used three stamps in the French Merson and Mouchon designs in French currency that were not issued in the offices in the Turkish Empire."
I wish I did not just learn this, as I though I had this collecting area under control. Could you provide some more details, so I can start hunting these down?"
With pleasure Greaden!
These three are the 25c blue Mouchon stamp and the 50c brown & lavender and 1fr lake and yellow-green Merson stamps (using the colours in SG).
All are inscribed "LEVANT". They were issued in the period 1906-08.
The post offices were in Harar, Addis Ababa and Diredawa.
In SG they are French Post Offices in Ethiopia SG 1-3.
In Scott they are French Offices in Turkey Sc. #29, #32 & #33.
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I found one!
I had forgotten that it was this thread that launched my quest for stamps from the French Offices in Ethiopia.
Levant Scott 32, with a postmark from Harar of a type used until 1908.
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Love it!!!
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OTHER ENTITIES
Here is where you should point out important examples that were omitted from the other sections.
We will go a bit slower with this one since the other threads may influence our decisions here.
Let's start with Offices Abroad:
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02:10:18am
re: A stamp for every country (Other Entities)
For the rest of the album, I had no problem making a working copy, but I am having a great deal of difficulty with this part.
It is just selected, but that means I have to think more about what to include and what to leave out. I will be basing this on what I have and what I am interested in.
For example, there are two offices of France in China listed, but in the catalogue there are about seven. I already have one of the other offices, and will substitute it in. This shouldn't violate the spirit of this section.
Jan
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re: A stamp for every country (Other Entities)
Jan,
I agree that we have a LOT more flexibility in this section without varying from the spirit of the Smithsonian pages. I moved one stamp from here to the main collection, added a couple of extras, and have several stamps on a stock page with an eye toward adding a page or two.
Next page:
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this post
re: A stamp for every country (Other Entities)
Where I have Calchi (Karki), Smithsonian had a duplicate from a prior page. We all pondered what the mysterious stamp REALLY was, and it turns out NOTHING was supposed to be there. I elected to use the Calchi stamp I bought!
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re: A stamp for every country (Other Entities)
Local stamps Part 2:
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01:04:33pm
re: A stamp for every country (Other Entities)
Lars,
I'm glad you are forcing me to think through this part of the album. I went through the Scott catalogues and made the following summary of offices abroad (that actually issued stamps):
Entries in black are in the Smithsonian album, while those in red are not. (There are only twelve in black, but the Smithsonian album has two for each of France in China and in Africa and I have not listed the Polish Government in exile.) The numbers in brackets refer to the number of distinct varieties (mostly towns).
I have Spain with a question mark for Tangiers. (Scott says office in Tangiers, but not office abroad, as it does for France and GB there.)
There may be errors in the table, but is a starting point. I am going to try to use this table as a basis for my expanded album (one from each section?)
Jan
Login to Like
this post
re: A stamp for every country (Other Entities)
Jan,
I just LOVE it when someone pulls outs tables, charts, and/or graphs!!!
I think you have a good plan to cover every cell of your table. My plan is less ambitious - just cover the rows and columns. I see that Smithsonian has the columns covered, but the rows, not so much. Let's talk about Poland and Russia. You don't show either covered at all, but Smithsonian has a backwards version for an office abroad for Poland, and maybe that's what they meant. But there is no doubt that Smithsonian has ZERO Russia offices abroad and THAT is a hole that I believe needs to be filled.
That stamp will fit nicely between Poland and USA.
Thanks so much for the input!
Lars
Login to Like
this post
re: A stamp for every country (Other Entities)
The table is thought provoking.
A couple of additions spring to mind:
- British Post Office in Bangkok
- Romanian Post Offices in the Turkish Empire.
However, it's hard to know what is included or excluded from the counts.
For example, does Scott include the stamps for the French Post Offices in Ethiopia?
The "Austrian Post Offices in Crete" stamps were not really that at all.
They were stamps in French currency issued for use in various parts of the Turkish Empire.
They were used in Crete but so were the Turkish currency stamps.
I'm sure the name stuck just because they first appeared around the time of the stamps for the British and Russian Administrations (or "Post Offices") in Crete and the French and Italian Post Offices on the island.
The Austrian Post Offices had already been active on the island for decades.
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12:34:26pm
re: A stamp for every country (Other Entities)
Hi Nigel,
Thanks for the response. Indeed, I did miss Romania in Turkish Empire.
Bangkok is already in the Smithsonian Album under Thailand.
According to the Stamp Atlas, the French offices in Ethiopia used stamps inscribed "LEVANT". According to Scott, these were used in the Turkish Empire (where I counted them).
Again Crete gives a problem. I'll need to think about it.
Jan
Login to Like
this post
re: A stamp for every country (Other Entities)
Jan and Nigel - a question:
Is there a particular one or two Russian offices abroad that are better known that the rest. I would prefer that it NOT be in China because I think we have that covered! So one or two top choices for Turkish/Ottoman Empire. I think one of those would be a nice rounding out of what Smithsonian has to offer.
Lars
Login to Like
this post
re: A stamp for every country (Other Entities)
Hi Lars,
That's a very interesting question!
The Russian Post Offices stamps basically consisted of:
- China (general issues)
- Crete (although I believe Scott quite reasonably calls these Russian Administration rather than Post Offices)
- Turkish Empire (general issues)
with specific overprints for each of the following within the Turkish Empire:
- Constantinople (Istanbul), Kerassunde (Giresun), Smyrne (Izmir), Trebizonde (Trabzon), Dardanelles (Canakalle), Rizeh (Rize) in modern Turkey
- Jaffa, Jerusalem in modern Israel
- Beyrouth (Beirut) in modern Lebanon
- Mont-Athos (Mount Athos), Salonica (Thessaloniki), Mételin (Mytilene) in modern Greece
I'd suggest a good coverage could be:
- 1 from China
- 1 from Crete
- 1 of the general ROPiT stamps for the Turkish Empire, and maybe
- 1 stamp from an individual city, such as Jerusalem or Constantinople?
I think a minimal coverage would be one from China and one from the Turkish Empire.
I realise I'm biased towards Crete as I have a specialised collection of the Russian Crete stamps but they were essentially local issues so perhaps should be out of scope here.
The Russian post offices in Crete operated in what was still technically Ottoman territory although in practice the Turks has lost control of the island by then.
Another approach (in terms of predecessors rather than BOB) could perhaps be one from China, one general stamp for the Turkish Empire (or for one of the towns in modern Turkey) and one from each of Beirut, Jerusalem, and Thessaloniki, so five stamps in all.
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re: A stamp for every country (Other Entities)
Hi Lars and Jan,
I have a couple of follow-up comments:
The Bangkok stamps were for a British post office in Siam.
However, I accept that it may be better when there only one or two stamps shown for a country there's no need to move any foreign post offices to the BOB.
The French Post Offices in Ethiopia are an interesting case.
They used three stamps in the French Merson and Mouchon designs in French currency that were not issued in the offices in the Turkish Empire.
By the time these stamps were introduced the offices in the Turkish Empire were already using stamps surcharged in the Turkish currency.
However, I'm sure there is no need to include them here!
Login to Like
this post
re: A stamp for every country (Other Entities)
I'm going to show the Occupation pages since they were referenced elsewhere:
That's not even the right stamp for Russia on page 127. I hope to learn more if I can get the PDF file from Smithsonian.
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06:28:36pm
re: A stamp for every country (Other Entities)
"The French Post Offices in Ethiopia are an interesting case.
They used three stamps in the French Merson and Mouchon designs in French currency that were not issued in the offices in the Turkish Empire."
I wish I did not just learn this, as I though I had this collecting area under control. Could you provide some more details, so I can start hunting these down?
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this post
re: A stamp for every country (Other Entities)
""The French Post Offices in Ethiopia are an interesting case.
They used three stamps in the French Merson and Mouchon designs in French currency that were not issued in the offices in the Turkish Empire."
I wish I did not just learn this, as I though I had this collecting area under control. Could you provide some more details, so I can start hunting these down?"
With pleasure Greaden!
These three are the 25c blue Mouchon stamp and the 50c brown & lavender and 1fr lake and yellow-green Merson stamps (using the colours in SG).
All are inscribed "LEVANT". They were issued in the period 1906-08.
The post offices were in Harar, Addis Ababa and Diredawa.
In SG they are French Post Offices in Ethiopia SG 1-3.
In Scott they are French Offices in Turkey Sc. #29, #32 & #33.
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12:19:16pm
re: A stamp for every country (Other Entities)
I found one!
I had forgotten that it was this thread that launched my quest for stamps from the French Offices in Ethiopia.
Levant Scott 32, with a postmark from Harar of a type used until 1908.
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re: A stamp for every country (Other Entities)
Love it!!!
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