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Worldwide/(All) : A stamp for every country (Asia)

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larsdog
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APS #220693 ATA#57179
14 Mar 2019
12:32:36am
Here is my first cut at an expanded Smithsonian "One For Every Country" Collection.

REMEMBER THE RULES:
1. No Offices Abroad, Local Stamps, or Occupation stamps. Those go in last section.
2. All dates are stamp issuing dates (although Smithsonian was quite inconsistent, I tried to clean that up).
3. This is MY example of an expansion, for your consideration and comment. You may decide to go a totally different route. That's OK, and please tell us why.

For some strange reason, Smithsonian put Mongolia in Southern Asia . I fixed that, plus a few other oddities, in my view:

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larsdog
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APS #220693 ATA#57179
14 Mar 2019
07:52:47pm
re: A stamp for every country (Asia)

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nigelc
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15 Mar 2019
10:41:32am
re: A stamp for every country (Asia)

Hi Lars,

India:

I think there's a good case for adding Sind as a predecessor but I realise the stamps are rare and expensive.

I would also add the following feudatory states:

- Dungarpur stamps issued 1933-1946, in use until 1948.

- Shahpura stamps issued 1914-1947, in use until 1948.

I suggest either splitting Indore into Holkar and Indore to reflect the change of name on the stamps or just rename it as Indore (Holkar).

- Jammu & Kashmir

I suggest keeping Kashmir with the other stamps, i.e. alphabetically with Jammu.

I'm not sure you need both of the Jammu & Kashmir categories. Perhaps just combine the dates.

- Travancore

I would remove "Anchel" from the name. It just means post (or post office).


Nepal:

I would split Nepal into Kingdom and Republic.


Pakistan:

I would add as a predecessor the Indian feudatory state of Las Bela.


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larsdog
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APS #220693 ATA#57179
16 Mar 2019
01:18:10pm
re: A stamp for every country (Asia)

Quote:

"India:

I think there's a good case for adding Sind as a predecessor but I realise the stamps are rare and expensive."



I can't find Sind anywhere, not even in my S.G. Commonwealth (EDIT: If found a Sind province in Pakistan)

Quote:

"
I would also add the following feudatory states:

- Dungarpur stamps issued 1933-1946, in use until 1948.

- Shahpura stamps issued 1914-1947, in use until 1948."



I was wondering why Dungarpur and Las Bela were omitted by Smithsonian. (More on Las Bela later). I didn't know if they were overlooked, considered local stamps, or what. I couldn't find Shahpura in Scott Standard, but did find it in S.G. Commonwealth. I will dig into those some more and if anyone else has info on why those were omitted please let us know.

Quote:

"I suggest either splitting Indore into Holkar and Indore to reflect the change of name on the stamps or just rename it as Indore (Holkar)."



I penciled in your second option. I write changes on the actual pages in pencil and make the changes the next time I print that particular page.

Quote:

"I suggest keeping Kashmir with the other stamps, i.e. alphabetically with Jammu.

I'm not sure you need both of the Jammu & Kashmir categories. Perhaps just combine the dates.
"



I have a note to see Jammu & Kashmir. I'm going to leave that one as is.

As far as Jammu and Kashmir splitting and rejoining, I'm really torn on how to deal with things like that. Anyone else have an opinion?

Quote:

"Travancore

I would remove "Anchel" from the name. It just means post (or post office)."



You're the second person to mention that. That's the way Smithsonian had it. I have changed it on my page.

Quote:

"Nepal:

I would split Nepal into Kingdom and Republic."



Well, rats! That was a fairly recent occurrence. Yup, I need a stamp after May 28, 2008 for the republic.

Quote:

"Pakistan:

I would add as a predecessor the Indian feudatory state of Las Bela."



You know, I actually did take a close look at Kashmir to see it it was currently controlled more by India or Pakistan, especially with recent events, but I didn't look at anything else. My SG Commonwealth shows Bahawalpur as a prior princely state under Pakistan. It doesn't have Las Bela, but my catalog covers 1840-1952 and Las Bela didn't join Pakistan until 1955. I agree that Las Bela belongs under Pakistan.

This touches on a point that affects other places, like Eastern Rumelia, Danzig, etc. Danzig was a part of Germany when the stamps were issued, but it is currently a part of Poland. Smithsonian put Danzig under Germany, but Nigel and I believe it belongs under Poland (I have it wrong currently, but have already made an annotation to make the change). I suppose it depends on how you look at things, but that viewpoint is going to play a role in a few other situations.

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larsdog
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APS #220693 ATA#57179
16 Mar 2019
06:53:23pm
re: A stamp for every country (Asia)

One note I forgot to add regarding Korea. I thought it was interesting that Smithsonian carved out a slot for the US Administration of South Korea (1946-1948 - Scott #55-79) but not the Soviet Occupation of North Korea during that same time (Scott #1-13).

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larsdog
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APS #220693 ATA#57179
18 Mar 2019
11:29:01pm
re: A stamp for every country (Asia)

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nigelc
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19 Mar 2019
07:16:52am
re: A stamp for every country (Asia)

Hi Lars,

A few follow-up comments first on India:

India:

Oops, I'd forgotten that Sind is now in Pakistan. Thanks!

I don't believe that the state of Jammu and Kashmir ever separated politically so whether you keep the Kashmir issues with the others is just a matter of preference.


Cambodia:

Indo-China is a predecessor but if I had to choose I would have included it as a predecessor to Vietnam instead.

Cambodia was added to French Indo-China and then later removed again.


East Timor:

I would move Portuguese Timor from the Indonesia section to be a predecessor here.

East Timor has the same territory as the Portuguese colony.

You may wish to add UNTAET for the first modern East Timor stamps when under UN administration.


Indonesia:

I suggest adding Riau-Lingga as a predecessor (or include it in the Local section).

Another possibility is the South Moluccas for the 1950 overprint set.


Malaysia:

I would suggest adding three more predecessors:

- The Malaysian Postal Union issued postage dues for use across Malaya for many years.

- British Military Administration issued stamps for use across Malaya after the war before the creation of the Malayan Federation.

- Federal Territories (Kuala Lumpur, Putrajaya and Labuan) now have low value definitives in the same designs as the individual states.

I also suggest splitting two of the states by period to reflect the changes in form of government:

North Borneo

- North Borneo Company

- British Colony

Sarawak

- Brooke Rajas

- British Colony

- State of Malaysia


Philippines:

You may wish to add as a predecessor the Filipino Revolutionary Government (KKK) issues of 1898-89.


Thailand:

I suggest removing Bangkok to the BOB section assuming this is for the British Post Office issues.

However, I would suggest adding Siam as a predecessor in its place.


Vietnam:

You may wish to consider listing as predecessors the North Vietnam issues for both Tongking and Central Annam.

These were in use before the general North Vietnam issues.


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larsdog
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APS #220693 ATA#57179
19 Mar 2019
11:32:31pm
re: A stamp for every country (Asia)

Nigel,

I only have time to address a few things before calling it a night:

Quote:

"Cambodia:

Indo-China is a predecessor but if I had to choose I would have included it as a predecessor to Vietnam instead.

Cambodia was added to French Indo-China and then later removed again."



I am using the same protocol as the Smithsonian pages. Place the stamp with the first successor alphabetically and add note to the others. So for Cambodia, Laos, and Vietnam, French Indo-China is a predecessor to all. The stamp is placed with Cambodia and a note is placed with Laos and Vietnam to see Cambodia. Not always ideal, I agree.

Quote:

"Vietnam:

You may wish to consider listing as predecessors the North Vietnam issues for both Tongking and Central Annam.

These were in use before the general North Vietnam issues."



Smithsonian had:

Vietnam
North Vietnam
South Vietnam
Viet Minh Issues

That's all.

I expanded it to:

Vietnam
North Vietnam
South Vietnam
State of Vietnam (1951-1954)
Viet Minh Issues

And then I moved Annam and Tonkin plus Cochin China from Cambodia to Vietnam. I get why Smithsonian put Indo-China as a precedent country to Cambodia, but Annam and Tonkin plus Cochin China were just wrong. So I changed them. So I have no problem making changes and adding things, but what you are describing sounds suspiciously like local stamps from a fledgling uprising. I would need more info to include those.





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nigelc
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20 Mar 2019
09:15:52am
re: A stamp for every country (Asia)

Hi Lars,

Quote:

"So I have no problem making changes and adding things, but what you are describing sounds suspiciously like local stamps from a fledgling uprising. I would need more info to include those. "



Yes, I agree.
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larsdog
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APS #220693 ATA#57179
22 Mar 2019
04:15:40pm
re: A stamp for every country (Asia)

I still have several items in Southeast Asia that Nigel brought up, but the last sections of Europe, Africa, and Oceania have already been posted so I want to at least get started on Western Asia.

Western Asia Part 1:

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Greaden
22 Mar 2019
05:01:42pm
re: A stamp for every country (Asia)

Transcaucasia was a predecessor for Armenia, Azerbaijan, and Georgia, but its capital was Tbilisi/Tiflis, so maybe Georgia is more appropriate as a home for that stamp?

Also, Batum was a predecessor for Georgia.

Abkhazia and Artsakh might count as locals. I am not sure if South Ossetian stamps have actually been used, but might be worth looking into.

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larsdog
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APS #220693 ATA#57179
22 Mar 2019
06:16:24pm
re: A stamp for every country (Asia)

Quote:

"Transcaucasia was a predecessor for Armenia, Azerbaijan, and Georgia, but its capital was Tbilisi/Tiflis, so maybe Georgia is more appropriate as a home for that stamp?"



This is exactly like Indo-China. It gets listed under the first one alphabetically and a note is added to the others. What you suggest is a reasonable alternate way of doing it, in which case French Indo China would be shown under Vietnam instead of Cambodia. If I were designing this myself, I would be likely to do as you suggest, but I'm trying to stay true to the way Smithsonian laid things out and only make changes where they are simply flat out wrong, like putting Annam and Tonkin, and Cochin China as predecessors to Cambodia! But that's a great comment and something that may be useful for someone following this that exercises more freedom in laying out their pages.

Batum is in the Occupation section. I just posted those pages.

I'll look at those last 3.

Thanks!
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nigelc
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22 Mar 2019
08:49:05pm
re: A stamp for every country (Asia)

Hi Lars,

I have a few comments on the new pages:


Iran:

The predecessor marked as "Republic" should be "Monarchy" or something similar.


Israel:

Is the Palestine Authority going to appear in this section as a separate item?


Kuwait:

You may wish to splitting the protectorate into periods for Indian and British postal administration as with Bahrain.


Kyrgyzstan:

The country has two official UPU postal operators which is very unusual although I expect that the three operators in Bosnia and Herzegovina and the two in Andorra follow into the same category.

You may possibly wish to represent this with a Kyrgyz Express Post stamp although it doesn't reflect a political change.


Oman:

I suggest adding another predecessor for the Indian Postal Administration which is called Muscat in the SG catalogues and renaming the Muscat category here to British Postal Administration which is called British Postal Agencies in Eastern Arabia in the SG catalogues.

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larsdog
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APS #220693 ATA#57179
22 Mar 2019
11:47:26pm
re: A stamp for every country (Asia)

I have printed off all of the past comments and I will start addressing all unanswered ones, but let me take your first two recent comments real quick:

1. Yes, Iran prior should be Monarchy. Typo (mine). Smithsonian only had one spot for Iran!

2. Palestinian Authority: That's a good point, but I don't know how to treat this. My first instinct is to add it to the International Organizations section until the State of Palestine is recognized internationally. However, there definitely needs to be a PA stamp SOMEWHERE!

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larsdog
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APS #220693 ATA#57179
28 Mar 2019
10:38:12pm
re: A stamp for every country (Asia)

Greaden,

I still owe you an answer:

Quote:

"Abkhazia and Artsakh might count as locals. I am not sure if South Ossetian stamps have actually been used, but might be worth looking into."



I would consider Abkhazia and South Ossetia to be military occupations by Russia. Artsakh is a possibility. I will keep an eye on that, but I suspect Russian monkey business there as well.

Nigel,

I owe you a lot of answers!

1. India feudatory states - You mentioned Dungarpur and Shahpura. I also noticed Kotah and Tonk were missing (are they different)? I will add spaces for those.

2. East Timor - move Portuguese Timor as precedent - AGREED!

3. Adding Riau-Lingga (Riau Archipelago) - WHAT A GREAT IDEA! I think it goes in BOB, but that's a must-have stamp given the fascinating background!

4. South Moluccas - I am treating them as unrecognized

5. Malaysia
a) MPU Postage dues - I think those are covered by Federation of Malaya stamps
b) British Military Admin - BOB, but important enough to add to the Occupation pages
c) Federal Territories - I don't think I understand this well enough

6. North Borneo - you want me to split North Borneo between North Borneo Company and British Colony. That's eerily similar to Kenya. I need to learn more about these kind of things and make a consistent determination. Are there other similar situations?

7. Sarawak - AGREED! What a fascinating story about the Brooke Rajas. I had never before heard of them.

8. Philippines - I plan to treat the revolutionary govt the same as Vietnam and call it BOB.

9. Thailand
a) Move Bangkok to BOB - AGREED
b) Add Siam as predecessor - AGREED, but NOT because of name change, but change from Kingdom to Constitutional Monarchy. (June 24, 1932)

10.

Quote:

"Kuwait:

You may wish to splitting the protectorate into periods for Indian and British postal administration as with Bahrain."



Bahrain was split between British and Bahrainian Postal Administrations. For Kuwait, it doesn't matter to me if Iraq or India or Britain were administering the postal service since Iraq and India were British colonies anyway (I know Iraq was only a colony until 1932 and was a postal administration until 1939). It's all a British Colony. What DOES interest me is when Kuwait took over postal administration in anticipation of independence. It appears that stamps issued 2-1-59 to the end of 1961 would be "Kuwaiti Postal Administration" for the British Colony. I think that's what I want to add (and the stamp I have is in that range, so I need an earlier stamp from Iraqi or Indian or British Administration).

11.

Quote:

"Kyrgyzstan:

The country has two official UPU postal operators which is very unusual although I expect that the three operators in Bosnia and Herzegovina and the two in Andorra follow into the same category.

You may possibly wish to represent this with a Kyrgyz Express Post stamp although it doesn't reflect a political change."



AGREED. This seems to be similar to Bosnia. I will add that one. Thanks!

12.

Quote:

"Oman:

I suggest adding another predecessor for the Indian Postal Administration which is called Muscat in the SG catalogues and renaming the Muscat category here to British Postal Administration which is called British Postal Agencies in Eastern Arabia in the SG catalogues."



I know that you and Keijo track postal administrations, but my focus is on the country. This is similar to Kuwait. I think what I have here is sufficient. Let me know if I'm missing something.

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nigelc
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30 Mar 2019
01:39:45pm
re: A stamp for every country (Asia)

Hi Lars,

Indian Princely States:

Kotah (Kota) and Tonk were neighbouring princely states in Rajasthan.

Both were "17-gun" salute states so were significant states politically.

Here's a map from the 1909 Imperial Gazetteer of India (and copied from Wikipedia):

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The state of Tonk consisted of several discrete areas. Tonk city is shown at the top in the centre and other areas are scattered all around Kotah.

There are lots of other stamp-issuing states in this map: Bundi, Jhalawar, Gwalior and many more.

Both Kotah and Tonk stamps are rare and neither state has been listed yet in the SG Part 1 catalogue.

I believe the two most recent states to be added to SG's catalogue were Dungarpur and Shahpura.

Both of these are shown on this map too.


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Jeredutt3
03 Apr 2019
10:20:34pm
re: A stamp for every country (Asia)

I am sure this has been addressed multiple times, but I didn't see it in my scan of the threads. Once all the shakeouts are finished are you going to make this available to download ? I have the Smithsonian one and actually use a different page format but would love it as a simple checklist ! What you guys are doing is fantastic !

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larsdog
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APS #220693 ATA#57179
06 Apr 2019
12:35:00am
re: A stamp for every country (Asia)

Quote:

"Once all the shakeouts are finished are you going to make this available to download?"



My plan is to update the pages based on comments from Nigel and others and publish them on web pages. Then I am going to invite Nigel and others to look through the result and ask if they see any glaring errors. After resolving those, if any, I will make the pages available to everyone and you can use that as a checklist. If anyone desires a print master for specific page or pages, I can send them in PNG format.

Quote:

"What you guys are doing is fantastic!"



Thanks! But none of this would have been possible without the early guidance of Keijo and all of the excellent commentary from Nigel (and a few others) recently.

I placed an order for several stamps and several packs of mounts so I can update the pages based on the comments. It will probably be several weeks before I have everything printed, mounted, scanned, and uploaded to my web site. I plan to go back over EVERY comment and see if I was hasty or inconsistent in my initial decision. Sorry, but all of this is rather labor intensive and I have a day job. But it's worth it, because the Smithsonian pages have some fairly significant flaws.

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Jeredutt3
10 Apr 2019
10:43:04pm
re: A stamp for every country (Asia)

Thanks, looking forward to seeing it all put together. I have jumped into the deep end of the pool and am now working on Military and Occupation stamps. My sorta boundary I guess is that it was issued by a specific entity for use in a specific geographic area. ( which then opens an entire other can of worms with such items as the Mirdita stamps since they were intended to be used allegedly. ) I will have to post my page for Austria. It has come out nice, but I completely relate to the mention of labor intensive. Hence, why I appreciate so much these threads and the project ! The understanding of the history is fascinating to me !

Will post a few of my pages in the next day or two to get your opinion.

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larsdog
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APS #220693 ATA#57179
15 Apr 2019
01:54:26am
re: A stamp for every country (Asia)

Quote:

"Will post a few of my pages in the next day or two to get your opinion."



We look forward to it!

Unfortunately I had a mishap that requires shoulder surgery so I won't be able to pick this back up for a few weeks, but the last time I had to recover from surgery (over 20 years ago) I came up with this:

http://www.larsdog.com/stamps/note3B.htm

The pain medicine made the 3rd Bureau finally make sense. (That's scary).

Maybe I will have another epiphany. Who knows!

Lars

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