Discussion - Member to Member Sales - Research Center
Discussion - Member to Member Sales - Research Center
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Hi Ernie,
The 'official' USPS form for this is PSN 7690-13-000-5606 and is shown below.
But keep in mind that the US postal service has a history of forms without form numbers and of local postmasters printing their own forms.
I do not think there is anything nefarious with the form you show.
Don
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Thanks Don... that's pretty much what I thought but I am stunned with all of the heightened awareness around identify theft and fraud in general that the USPS would ever allow local offices to print such suspect material. Additionally, I thought the "official" procedure was to go online and fill out a change of address form. We did this recently and the process forces you to pay $1.00 with a credit card just to authenticate yourself. Thanks again Don. Have a good day.
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"I am stunned with all of the heightened awareness around identify theft and fraud in general that the USPS would ever allow local offices to print such suspect material."
Remember when you were told to keep your social security card in your wallet and the police told you to engrave valuables with your social security number. People put their social security number on their checks and stores asked for your social security number when you paid by check. At some point that changed and you were told to NEVER carry your social security card with you and not to divulge it to anyone. So up until VERY recently when you turned 65 they sent you a Medicare card using your social security number as your identification number and you were told to carry it on your person at all times (but you still weren't supposed to carry your social security card with you). And then you had to give that number to every health care provider you visited and they put it into your computer record that can be viewed by almost anyone with access to the system. Think about that.
If you have ever gone through an automatic computer identification verification you probably had to look up certain questions - current mortgage balance, your car loan balance or what year you paid off your car loan, your previous address, which of these phone numbers did you previously have. And the beat goes on. When I worked for the government many people could not register for our program online because they couldn't pass the id verification. They had to fill out and mail paper forms.
No one should have much of an expectation of privacy anymore. - honest.
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In my opinion concerns about documentation identity will quickly be forgotten in a few years. With the large DNA databases being built, keep in mind that we shed DNA everywhere we go and on everything we touch. We are also carrying computers with us everywhere we go. Cameras are now everywhere. These things (DNA ID and our digital ID) will redefine our attitudes about personal freedoms in the future.
Don
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"... the police told you to engrave valuables with your social security number ..."
Not by me. Back in the early 1970s, the local police advised people to engrave their California Driver License number on their valuables, presumably because they had more immediate access to the DL database, and less immediate access to the SS database, and the bad guys were supposed to be carrying their own DL (which would not match your goods).
As to scams, I just got a Early Holiday Savings eMail, allegedly from Costco, where the first item featured was (I kid you not) the Bio Bidet USPA-U 6800 Luxury Bidet Seat (only $219.99).
Seriously?
Cheers,
/s/ ikeyPikey
https://www.costco.com/.product.100015779.html?&EMID=B2C_2018_1115_PrePreEnds_Inactive
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"Additionally, I thought the "official" procedure was to go online and fill out a change of address form. We did this recently and the process forces you to pay $1.00 with a credit card just to authenticate yourself. "
Ernie,
Beware!! This current USPS change-of-address process opens up a new way for thieves to scam people. I have firsthand real-world knowledge that scammers are currently filling out the paperwork to do a change of address on innocent unsuspecting people, charging $1.00 to a bogus credit card and your mail is hijacked to an address across the country. The USPS is too loose with the "authentication process." This happened to a lady I know, and her Iowa-addressed mail was hijacked and sent to an apartment in Indiana.
When a scammer does this to you, the USPS will send you a confirmation letter in the mail. It states that if you did NOT do a change of address, call this phone number. When you call the number, you will be on hold for over an hour, then you talk to a third party call center that takes your information, and nothing happens for days. Skip this step! Take the USPS letter to your local post office immediately and have them get on the computer and get the record changed in their database before you lose any letters to the thieves.
A criminal case was opened with the postal inspectors, but nothing ever happened in the case. This is why people should not put their personal addresses on a discussion board like Stamporama at any time! I think the USPS should eliminate this online change-of-address process and make everyone go to the post office and fill out the COA form, with proper ID, in person. Everyone should be alert...the USPS process is flawed, and wide open to scammers, so have the images of your letter mail sent to your email daily!
Linus
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Hi Linus,
This is no different than the 'manual' method. Anyone can walk into any post office, get a change of address (COA) form and have all your mail rerouted. The only thing they need is your name, your address and then sign the COA. The U.S. Postal Service (USPS) does not require any identification.
This is easier and less risky than committing credit card fraud.
Don
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Don,
There is one big difference between filling out a COA form fraudulently online and filling out a COA form fraudulently at your local post office, and that is security cameras. Even here in small town Iowa, I can think of my 3 closest post offices and they all have a camera on you when you are standing at the counter and one on you in the parking lot also. I think they should make you come to the post office, stand at the counter, and show a valid picture ID for a COA. That is my opinion in the world we live in today.
Linus
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Hi Linus,
Yes indeed, the PO also has cameras on the USPS employees. But the cameras are nothing that a wig and some makeup can't overcome for anyone with criminal intent.
And keep in mind that anyone filling out an online form is leaving a straight digital trail back to their location via their IP and MAC addresses.
Either method requires one to cover their tracks.
Don
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Ernie, if you're not sure if the form is legitimate, take it to your post office and ask them. Peace of mind works wonders on a person. (From the "Better Safe Than Sorry Department)
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Linus, I'm not sure how someone could commit fraud with the online change-of-address process if it takes a credit card in your name to complete the process. Wouldn't they also have to get ahold of your credit card? Michael. BSTS is always good advice for sure.
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Ernie,
You would think so, but no charges of $1.00 ever appeared on her credit card. There was no COA form filed at her local post office. I am not sure exactly how they pulled it off. She discovered it when her utility bill never arrived in the mail from the power company. It went to an apartment building in Indiana never to be seen again.
Linus
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"... no charges of $1.00 ever appeared on her credit card ..."
They authorize the transaction but do not complete the transaction.
Easily done; they are not the only ones.
Cheers,
/s/ ikeyPikey
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Oh, vey. I give up. 
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Ernie,
Last weekend I helped a friend move into a new apartment;
in the mailbox was a piece of paper just like the one you show.
The P.O. is across the street from her new place. so I walked over there - they are open til noon on Sat. - and asked if this paper was indeed placed there by local mail.
They stated it was.
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Hey Randy,
So, for the first time in my life I called 1-800-ASK-USPS today. I was on hold with an expected wait time of 15 minutes. I was offered and took advantage of the "call back" feature. 10 minutes later a very nice and helpful lady called me back. Judging from her accent I could tell she "wasnt from around here". I asked her if I might ask from where she was calling and she confirmed that she was in India. She communicated fairly well, seemed knowledgeable about the process and genuinely wanted to help me. She explained that the letter was legitimate and if completed would assist the carrier but completing the online change was all we needed to do.
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"Judging from her accent I could tell she "wasn't from around here". I asked her if I might ask from where she was calling and she confirmed that she was in India."
Something is seriously wrong when USPS is using an Indian call center! Who's next? IRS?
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According to Glassdoor the average call center salary in the United States is $32,000 per year.
The average call center wage in India is $2200 per year (keep in mind per capita income is $900 per year). Experienced long term workers can make up to $5000 but they are few are far between.
Simple economics, not sure what the add-on is but even if doubled it is cheap.
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12:11:48pm
The average call center wage in India is $2200 per
year (keep in mind per capita income is $900 per year
Fifty years ago when the ship pulled in to Calcutta, or Bombay,
the seamen, usually about eight or ten men, would kick in $25.00
apiece and the bosun would pay a "contractor" to hire a work
party to paint the ship, stem to stern (450 to 500 feet) hull
and superstructure for about $125.00, and another group to clean
the rose boxes as available. And another couple of workers to
clean the inside everyday. Rooms as well, if someone monitored
their progress.
That let us off to visit the city or take a short trip to some
sights.
At that time the contractor earned about $500 - $600 per annum
and seemed to live well with a wife and I think two children.
So I suspect call center personnel do quite well at $2200 annual
earnings. The official exchange rate for Indian Rupees was
10 R to a dollar, with a healthy black market rate of about 15-17
Rupees to a dollar. The 15 rate was for crisp greenbacks and the
17+ rupees, was for gold coins bought in Beirut or Aden. .
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Indian salaries are of course far lower than the US. Now if only currency exchange rates were based on something more sensible than economics. I always though the McDonald's basic hamburger was a good indicator of a currency's worth. See what it costs in India and then see what the US price is. The ratio between the two should be the exchange rate. I think the call center wages would increase quite a bit in dollar terms.
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02:08:04pm
I think I remember reading somewhere that
in Bangalore (best known for torpedoes )
there is a college where the students can
major in things like call center operations
and linguistics so that some of our frequently
used idioms are known and do not become
thought to be an insult.
That alone would bump their salaries.
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A colleague of mine was married to an ethnic Asian lady who worked for one of the major UK banks. They decided to set up a call centre in India, and with her background and language knowledge she went off for a year to train the staff ( the bank did pay for her to come home to her husband from time to time !!).
My colleague was keen to tell me that as a bank, and one of the earliest to have a call centre in Mumbai, they were able to recruit the very best staff, and pay accordingly. All had English degrees and all spent time being hosted in the UK by bank employees to absorb some of the culture, and idiom and colloquialisms to equip them better for the job.
It has to be said that some of the later entrants to overseas call centres have taken less trouble to recruit the right people ( and probably pay them properly ) - so that the English skills are not conducive to a good outcome of the call. Regrettably some of the less competent may well have been recruited to the telephone scam factories which are prevalent. Personally I do not respond to cold callers from the Indian sub-continent and you would be wise not to do so. Some of the later call centre customers have been forced as a result of public pressure through bad service to reopen call centres in the UK.
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04:35:43am
We just moved in to our new house and found this in the mailbox it looks homemade...I thought any official USPS printed material would have a form number. This looks bogus as all get out. Anybody ever see this?
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re: Bogus Change of Address Card........Is this a Scam?
Hi Ernie,
The 'official' USPS form for this is PSN 7690-13-000-5606 and is shown below.
But keep in mind that the US postal service has a history of forms without form numbers and of local postmasters printing their own forms.
I do not think there is anything nefarious with the form you show.
Don
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07:27:53am
re: Bogus Change of Address Card........Is this a Scam?
Thanks Don... that's pretty much what I thought but I am stunned with all of the heightened awareness around identify theft and fraud in general that the USPS would ever allow local offices to print such suspect material. Additionally, I thought the "official" procedure was to go online and fill out a change of address form. We did this recently and the process forces you to pay $1.00 with a credit card just to authenticate yourself. Thanks again Don. Have a good day.
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08:02:29am
re: Bogus Change of Address Card........Is this a Scam?
"I am stunned with all of the heightened awareness around identify theft and fraud in general that the USPS would ever allow local offices to print such suspect material."
Remember when you were told to keep your social security card in your wallet and the police told you to engrave valuables with your social security number. People put their social security number on their checks and stores asked for your social security number when you paid by check. At some point that changed and you were told to NEVER carry your social security card with you and not to divulge it to anyone. So up until VERY recently when you turned 65 they sent you a Medicare card using your social security number as your identification number and you were told to carry it on your person at all times (but you still weren't supposed to carry your social security card with you). And then you had to give that number to every health care provider you visited and they put it into your computer record that can be viewed by almost anyone with access to the system. Think about that.
If you have ever gone through an automatic computer identification verification you probably had to look up certain questions - current mortgage balance, your car loan balance or what year you paid off your car loan, your previous address, which of these phone numbers did you previously have. And the beat goes on. When I worked for the government many people could not register for our program online because they couldn't pass the id verification. They had to fill out and mail paper forms.
No one should have much of an expectation of privacy anymore. - honest.
Login to Like
this post
re: Bogus Change of Address Card........Is this a Scam?
In my opinion concerns about documentation identity will quickly be forgotten in a few years. With the large DNA databases being built, keep in mind that we shed DNA everywhere we go and on everything we touch. We are also carrying computers with us everywhere we go. Cameras are now everywhere. These things (DNA ID and our digital ID) will redefine our attitudes about personal freedoms in the future.
Don
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this post
re: Bogus Change of Address Card........Is this a Scam?
"... the police told you to engrave valuables with your social security number ..."
Not by me. Back in the early 1970s, the local police advised people to engrave their California Driver License number on their valuables, presumably because they had more immediate access to the DL database, and less immediate access to the SS database, and the bad guys were supposed to be carrying their own DL (which would not match your goods).
As to scams, I just got a Early Holiday Savings eMail, allegedly from Costco, where the first item featured was (I kid you not) the Bio Bidet USPA-U 6800 Luxury Bidet Seat (only $219.99).
Seriously?
Cheers,
/s/ ikeyPikey
https://www.costco.com/.product.100015779.html?&EMID=B2C_2018_1115_PrePreEnds_Inactive
Login to Like
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re: Bogus Change of Address Card........Is this a Scam?
"Additionally, I thought the "official" procedure was to go online and fill out a change of address form. We did this recently and the process forces you to pay $1.00 with a credit card just to authenticate yourself. "
Ernie,
Beware!! This current USPS change-of-address process opens up a new way for thieves to scam people. I have firsthand real-world knowledge that scammers are currently filling out the paperwork to do a change of address on innocent unsuspecting people, charging $1.00 to a bogus credit card and your mail is hijacked to an address across the country. The USPS is too loose with the "authentication process." This happened to a lady I know, and her Iowa-addressed mail was hijacked and sent to an apartment in Indiana.
When a scammer does this to you, the USPS will send you a confirmation letter in the mail. It states that if you did NOT do a change of address, call this phone number. When you call the number, you will be on hold for over an hour, then you talk to a third party call center that takes your information, and nothing happens for days. Skip this step! Take the USPS letter to your local post office immediately and have them get on the computer and get the record changed in their database before you lose any letters to the thieves.
A criminal case was opened with the postal inspectors, but nothing ever happened in the case. This is why people should not put their personal addresses on a discussion board like Stamporama at any time! I think the USPS should eliminate this online change-of-address process and make everyone go to the post office and fill out the COA form, with proper ID, in person. Everyone should be alert...the USPS process is flawed, and wide open to scammers, so have the images of your letter mail sent to your email daily!
Linus
Login to Like
this post
re: Bogus Change of Address Card........Is this a Scam?
Hi Linus,
This is no different than the 'manual' method. Anyone can walk into any post office, get a change of address (COA) form and have all your mail rerouted. The only thing they need is your name, your address and then sign the COA. The U.S. Postal Service (USPS) does not require any identification.
This is easier and less risky than committing credit card fraud.
Don
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this post
re: Bogus Change of Address Card........Is this a Scam?
Don,
There is one big difference between filling out a COA form fraudulently online and filling out a COA form fraudulently at your local post office, and that is security cameras. Even here in small town Iowa, I can think of my 3 closest post offices and they all have a camera on you when you are standing at the counter and one on you in the parking lot also. I think they should make you come to the post office, stand at the counter, and show a valid picture ID for a COA. That is my opinion in the world we live in today.
Linus
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re: Bogus Change of Address Card........Is this a Scam?
Hi Linus,
Yes indeed, the PO also has cameras on the USPS employees. But the cameras are nothing that a wig and some makeup can't overcome for anyone with criminal intent.
And keep in mind that anyone filling out an online form is leaving a straight digital trail back to their location via their IP and MAC addresses.
Either method requires one to cover their tracks.
Don
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04:46:08pm
re: Bogus Change of Address Card........Is this a Scam?
Ernie, if you're not sure if the form is legitimate, take it to your post office and ask them. Peace of mind works wonders on a person. (From the "Better Safe Than Sorry Department)
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06:48:43pm
re: Bogus Change of Address Card........Is this a Scam?
Linus, I'm not sure how someone could commit fraud with the online change-of-address process if it takes a credit card in your name to complete the process. Wouldn't they also have to get ahold of your credit card? Michael. BSTS is always good advice for sure.
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re: Bogus Change of Address Card........Is this a Scam?
Ernie,
You would think so, but no charges of $1.00 ever appeared on her credit card. There was no COA form filed at her local post office. I am not sure exactly how they pulled it off. She discovered it when her utility bill never arrived in the mail from the power company. It went to an apartment building in Indiana never to be seen again.
Linus
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re: Bogus Change of Address Card........Is this a Scam?
"... no charges of $1.00 ever appeared on her credit card ..."
They authorize the transaction but do not complete the transaction.
Easily done; they are not the only ones.
Cheers,
/s/ ikeyPikey
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06:54:44pm
re: Bogus Change of Address Card........Is this a Scam?
Oh, vey. I give up.
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re: Bogus Change of Address Card........Is this a Scam?
Ernie,
Last weekend I helped a friend move into a new apartment;
in the mailbox was a piece of paper just like the one you show.
The P.O. is across the street from her new place. so I walked over there - they are open til noon on Sat. - and asked if this paper was indeed placed there by local mail.
They stated it was.
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07:31:37pm
re: Bogus Change of Address Card........Is this a Scam?
Hey Randy,
So, for the first time in my life I called 1-800-ASK-USPS today. I was on hold with an expected wait time of 15 minutes. I was offered and took advantage of the "call back" feature. 10 minutes later a very nice and helpful lady called me back. Judging from her accent I could tell she "wasnt from around here". I asked her if I might ask from where she was calling and she confirmed that she was in India. She communicated fairly well, seemed knowledgeable about the process and genuinely wanted to help me. She explained that the letter was legitimate and if completed would assist the carrier but completing the online change was all we needed to do.
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re: Bogus Change of Address Card........Is this a Scam?
"Judging from her accent I could tell she "wasn't from around here". I asked her if I might ask from where she was calling and she confirmed that she was in India."
Something is seriously wrong when USPS is using an Indian call center! Who's next? IRS?
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11:22:16am
re: Bogus Change of Address Card........Is this a Scam?
According to Glassdoor the average call center salary in the United States is $32,000 per year.
The average call center wage in India is $2200 per year (keep in mind per capita income is $900 per year). Experienced long term workers can make up to $5000 but they are few are far between.
Simple economics, not sure what the add-on is but even if doubled it is cheap.
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Silence in the face of adversity is the father of complicity and collusion, the first cousins of conspiracy..
17 Nov 2018
12:11:48pm
re: Bogus Change of Address Card........Is this a Scam?
The average call center wage in India is $2200 per
year (keep in mind per capita income is $900 per year
Fifty years ago when the ship pulled in to Calcutta, or Bombay,
the seamen, usually about eight or ten men, would kick in $25.00
apiece and the bosun would pay a "contractor" to hire a work
party to paint the ship, stem to stern (450 to 500 feet) hull
and superstructure for about $125.00, and another group to clean
the rose boxes as available. And another couple of workers to
clean the inside everyday. Rooms as well, if someone monitored
their progress.
That let us off to visit the city or take a short trip to some
sights.
At that time the contractor earned about $500 - $600 per annum
and seemed to live well with a wife and I think two children.
So I suspect call center personnel do quite well at $2200 annual
earnings. The official exchange rate for Indian Rupees was
10 R to a dollar, with a healthy black market rate of about 15-17
Rupees to a dollar. The 15 rate was for crisp greenbacks and the
17+ rupees, was for gold coins bought in Beirut or Aden. .
Login to Like
this post
re: Bogus Change of Address Card........Is this a Scam?
Indian salaries are of course far lower than the US. Now if only currency exchange rates were based on something more sensible than economics. I always though the McDonald's basic hamburger was a good indicator of a currency's worth. See what it costs in India and then see what the US price is. The ratio between the two should be the exchange rate. I think the call center wages would increase quite a bit in dollar terms.
Login to Like
this post
Silence in the face of adversity is the father of complicity and collusion, the first cousins of conspiracy..
21 Nov 2018
02:08:04pm
re: Bogus Change of Address Card........Is this a Scam?
I think I remember reading somewhere that
in Bangalore (best known for torpedoes )
there is a college where the students can
major in things like call center operations
and linguistics so that some of our frequently
used idioms are known and do not become
thought to be an insult.
That alone would bump their salaries.
Login to Like
this post
07:12:50am
re: Bogus Change of Address Card........Is this a Scam?
A colleague of mine was married to an ethnic Asian lady who worked for one of the major UK banks. They decided to set up a call centre in India, and with her background and language knowledge she went off for a year to train the staff ( the bank did pay for her to come home to her husband from time to time !!).
My colleague was keen to tell me that as a bank, and one of the earliest to have a call centre in Mumbai, they were able to recruit the very best staff, and pay accordingly. All had English degrees and all spent time being hosted in the UK by bank employees to absorb some of the culture, and idiom and colloquialisms to equip them better for the job.
It has to be said that some of the later entrants to overseas call centres have taken less trouble to recruit the right people ( and probably pay them properly ) - so that the English skills are not conducive to a good outcome of the call. Regrettably some of the less competent may well have been recruited to the telephone scam factories which are prevalent. Personally I do not respond to cold callers from the Indian sub-continent and you would be wise not to do so. Some of the later call centre customers have been forced as a result of public pressure through bad service to reopen call centres in the UK.
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