Discussion - Member to Member Sales - Research Center
Discussion - Member to Member Sales - Research Center
I'll be waiting to see what I have here.
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08:29:27am
Neither of these are First Day covers. As you point out, Scott identifies the first day for this stamp as April 15 in Newton KS.
The top one is a First Flight cover for CAM 20 from St. Louis to Omaha. The second cover is an Airport Dedication cover for Waynesboro PA.
With usual franking, both of these covers would sell in the $1-$1.50 range (there are hundreds of such covers on BuckaCover.com in this price range and lower)
https://www.buckacover.com/covers/search.php?code=usflightpre50 -- pre-1950 flight covers
https://www.buckacover.com/covers/search.php?code=usairport -- airport dedication and aviation events
Since the stamp catalogs more than the usual franking for these covers, I would expect these two to sell for around $3-5 each.
Clearly, this collector had access to the stamps earlier than normal, being in Newton KS, where they apparently first appeared.
Roy
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Roy,
I look to you as an expert, but I respectfully disagree and think there is more to this than a common first flight.The stamp alone catalogs for $18.00, so I think the cover would bring more than $3.00. I looked at an older Scott's catalog and it lists the official First Day of Issue as May 1st and has a side note that issues exist as early as April 15th which I don't think is normal. My Scott's lists the May 1st issue at $140.00 and the April 15th from Newton at $900.00. If you have 100's of #664 May 1st or before, I'll take them all at $3.00 each. While first days and first flights are not my area of expertise, I see enough of them where I believe this one is somewhat unique and worth more than $3.00. I need to dig a little further.
Pat
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From the National Postal Museum...
"A series of post office robberies in the Midwest was the stated reason for the creation of the 1929 Kansas and Nebraska overprinted stamps of the Fourth Bureau Issue.
The Post Office Department conceived the idea to overprint stamps with the abbreviated names of the individual states, believing that stolen overprinted state stamps would be difficult to fence in or out of state. Kansas and Nebraska were selected to initiate the experiment. Since security at large city post offices was considered adequate, only small post offices would receive the stamps.
A one year supply of the 1-cent through 10-cent stamps was overprinted for Kansas and Nebraska. Higher values were not included because they were not printed by rotary press and could not easily be overprinted. The overprinted stamps could only be sold at post offices within their respective states, but they were valid for postage throughout the United States and wherever U.S regular stamps could be used. Shipments of the stamps began on April 15, 1929.
Economics rather than theft actually played the pivotal roll in promoting the state stamp idea. Kansas and Nebraska postmasters were required to requisition a one-year supply of the overprinted stamps, not the normal quarterly supply requisition. Had the experiment succeeded, the Post Office Department planned to extend the scheme to all forty-eight states, hoping to cut fulfillment costs by 75 percent.
There was considerable confusion as postal clerks nationwide misunderstood the rules and tried to assess postage to replace entirely legal usage of the Kansas-Nebraska stamps. The Department decided to abandon any further consideration of state overprinted stamps on March 29, 1930."
According to the APS MuellerAward.pdf
"All 11 denominations of the Kansas overprints made their initial appearance on April 16"
According to the 1929 Postal Department Postal Bulletin Announcement
"- On April 9th - Stamps sold at PO’s within respective states but valid nationwide
- Use supply of unsurcharged stamps until exhausted.
- No official First Day of Use for any Post Office.
- Postmasters not to accept mail orders for stamps outside of state.
- First Day of Issue covers will be sold in Washington DC on May 1, 1929
- First order of stamps from collectors should not include other varieties of stamps"
So the May 1 FDCs are a bit of a misnomer, the stamps were clearly available earlier for use.
Don
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Don,
Thank You, that explains a lot and answers my question.
Pat
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"Kansas and Nebraska postmasters were required to requisition a one-year supply of the overprinted stamps, not the normal quarterly supply requisition."
Kinda defeats the purpose... they were worried about post office robberies, so they make sure there are four times the normal amount of stamps in inventory????
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Kinda defeats the purpose... they were worried about post office robberies, so they make sure there are four times the normal amount of stamps in inventory???? Hypnotized
BenFranklin1902, Are you doubting the efficiency of a government plan?
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A logical explanation is that they were concerned about the orders being stolen in transit and desired to limited the total number of orders. Or since it was probably a 'special run' to overprint the stamps, they might have wanted to drive early, larger orders.
Don
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...."Are you doubting the efficiency of a government plan?"....
Love it!
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I have never collected first day covers and I am the first to admit that I don't know much about these. I came across these in a collection I bought. My only reference is the Scott catalog which identifies the first day as May 1st without a specific city. The first cover is May 1st from St. Louis. The second cover is from Waynesboro,PA dated April 27 which is prior to the May 1st first day of issue. The Scott's does list April 15th date from Newton, Kansas and it catalogs at $900.00. This has Newton as the destination. So my question is, what do I have here? I am a postal history collector. The person that collected these was obviously an advanced collector based on the postal history items that I bought the collection for with several rare items. There is also a bunch of Kansas/Nebraska Overprint covers in many denominations that I don't often see on cover in the collection and these two were part of that.
I'll be waiting to see what I have here.
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BuckaCover.com - 80,000 covers priced 60c to $1.50 - Easy browsing 500 categories
26 Oct 2018
08:29:27am
re: 664 First day Covers-
Neither of these are First Day covers. As you point out, Scott identifies the first day for this stamp as April 15 in Newton KS.
The top one is a First Flight cover for CAM 20 from St. Louis to Omaha. The second cover is an Airport Dedication cover for Waynesboro PA.
With usual franking, both of these covers would sell in the $1-$1.50 range (there are hundreds of such covers on BuckaCover.com in this price range and lower)
https://www.buckacover.com/covers/search.php?code=usflightpre50 -- pre-1950 flight covers
https://www.buckacover.com/covers/search.php?code=usairport -- airport dedication and aviation events
Since the stamp catalogs more than the usual franking for these covers, I would expect these two to sell for around $3-5 each.
Clearly, this collector had access to the stamps earlier than normal, being in Newton KS, where they apparently first appeared.
Roy
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re: 664 First day Covers-
Roy,
I look to you as an expert, but I respectfully disagree and think there is more to this than a common first flight.The stamp alone catalogs for $18.00, so I think the cover would bring more than $3.00. I looked at an older Scott's catalog and it lists the official First Day of Issue as May 1st and has a side note that issues exist as early as April 15th which I don't think is normal. My Scott's lists the May 1st issue at $140.00 and the April 15th from Newton at $900.00. If you have 100's of #664 May 1st or before, I'll take them all at $3.00 each. While first days and first flights are not my area of expertise, I see enough of them where I believe this one is somewhat unique and worth more than $3.00. I need to dig a little further.
Pat
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re: 664 First day Covers-
From the National Postal Museum...
"A series of post office robberies in the Midwest was the stated reason for the creation of the 1929 Kansas and Nebraska overprinted stamps of the Fourth Bureau Issue.
The Post Office Department conceived the idea to overprint stamps with the abbreviated names of the individual states, believing that stolen overprinted state stamps would be difficult to fence in or out of state. Kansas and Nebraska were selected to initiate the experiment. Since security at large city post offices was considered adequate, only small post offices would receive the stamps.
A one year supply of the 1-cent through 10-cent stamps was overprinted for Kansas and Nebraska. Higher values were not included because they were not printed by rotary press and could not easily be overprinted. The overprinted stamps could only be sold at post offices within their respective states, but they were valid for postage throughout the United States and wherever U.S regular stamps could be used. Shipments of the stamps began on April 15, 1929.
Economics rather than theft actually played the pivotal roll in promoting the state stamp idea. Kansas and Nebraska postmasters were required to requisition a one-year supply of the overprinted stamps, not the normal quarterly supply requisition. Had the experiment succeeded, the Post Office Department planned to extend the scheme to all forty-eight states, hoping to cut fulfillment costs by 75 percent.
There was considerable confusion as postal clerks nationwide misunderstood the rules and tried to assess postage to replace entirely legal usage of the Kansas-Nebraska stamps. The Department decided to abandon any further consideration of state overprinted stamps on March 29, 1930."
According to the APS MuellerAward.pdf
"All 11 denominations of the Kansas overprints made their initial appearance on April 16"
According to the 1929 Postal Department Postal Bulletin Announcement
"- On April 9th - Stamps sold at PO’s within respective states but valid nationwide
- Use supply of unsurcharged stamps until exhausted.
- No official First Day of Use for any Post Office.
- Postmasters not to accept mail orders for stamps outside of state.
- First Day of Issue covers will be sold in Washington DC on May 1, 1929
- First order of stamps from collectors should not include other varieties of stamps"
So the May 1 FDCs are a bit of a misnomer, the stamps were clearly available earlier for use.
Don
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re: 664 First day Covers-
Don,
Thank You, that explains a lot and answers my question.
Pat
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re: 664 First day Covers-
"Kansas and Nebraska postmasters were required to requisition a one-year supply of the overprinted stamps, not the normal quarterly supply requisition."
Kinda defeats the purpose... they were worried about post office robberies, so they make sure there are four times the normal amount of stamps in inventory????
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re: 664 First day Covers-
Kinda defeats the purpose... they were worried about post office robberies, so they make sure there are four times the normal amount of stamps in inventory???? Hypnotized
BenFranklin1902, Are you doubting the efficiency of a government plan?
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re: 664 First day Covers-
A logical explanation is that they were concerned about the orders being stolen in transit and desired to limited the total number of orders. Or since it was probably a 'special run' to overprint the stamps, they might have wanted to drive early, larger orders.
Don
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re: 664 First day Covers-
...."Are you doubting the efficiency of a government plan?"....
Love it!
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