Discussion - Member to Member Sales - Research Center
Discussion - Member to Member Sales - Research Center
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Your wife probably told the clerk that she needed to get the document to your daughter as soon as possible. The clerk (if this clerk follows protocol) probably gave your wife the alternatives to get the document to your daughter in the fastest method possible based on the amount of money she was willing to spend on the service. Priority mail will get it to her in two days. The ignorance is on the customer not knowing what the options are, or the instructions given to the customer before she went to the post office were insufficient. Don't blame the post office.
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Wow. It's impressive that Michael is able to rule out a priori the possibility that the clerk was in error given that he has neither first-hand nor hearsay knowledge of the interaction between customer and clerk.
1) I asked my wife to send the piece certified (the "instructions") and she approached the counter with the addressed envelope and a filled-out certified mail sticker. Although she said "I would like to send this tracked," rather than "I would like to send this certified," I would think that the sticker sufficiently signaled her intent.
2) My wife did not indicate that time was a factor.
3) The clerk's reply was "You'll have to send it Priority." The customer's choice to defer to the clerk may represent "ignorance," but only insofar as the customer was not confident enough in her knowledge to dispute the incorrect assertion of the presumed expert. IMO the customer's mistake was assuming the clerk knew her job.
This is not the Lindbergh kidnapping, and I wasn't trying to start a wrangle. I'm honestly interested in how often these sorts of experiences occur. I'm a fan of the USPS and I've had good luck with this particular branch. But this was the PO's fail.
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"The extra $2.75 won't break me, but this pointless 70% upsell chaps my hide. How common is this sort of thing? Is it more likely ignorance or chicanery?"
Based on my experience, the answer is A.
On more than one occasion I have had to educate the postal employee about the services they provide. NEVER have I received any negative feedback or treatment (as far as I know). In my opinion, they just don't know all the rules. Anytime I want to do something "unusual" at the post office (like sending a letter as a package), I usually print off the relevant regs and take them with me. I can count on having to use them more than 10% of the time.
Having said that, I don't consider Certified Mail to be "unusual" enough to warrant ignorance on the part of the postal employee. So your wife encountered an unusually uninformed employee or your wife was confused by the (intentionally) biased presentation of options. If you go to USPS.com to see how much it costs to mail a one ounce letter, your first option is Priority. You have to scroll past 10 other Priority options just to find out what a first class stamp costs. It's not the clerk. It's USPS culture. And THAT is chicanery.
JMHO
Lars
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Wow. It's impressive that in your original post, you provided little information but assumptions that the post office is involved in thievery or the clerk was ignorant over the mailing of a document that was of importance to your daughter (implying that time was of the essence). Nothing was originally stated as in the reply, where more factors were provided to support the original claim. I only had the hearsay provided in the OP to draw a supposition.
From my experiences in the post office listening to customers who don't have a clue, I would side with the postal clerk. I still say don't blame the post office.
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I must be missing something.
There seems to be an unusual amount of animus here. I could have easily posted the same OP myself, except that I would have assumed my wife was confused by the intentionally slanted presentation of options. I wouldn't blame my wife or the clerk, but I do hold USPS responsible for the obfuscation. We have UPS and FedEx shipping accounts at my business, so my wife is now inclined to just send anything special UPS or FedEx instead of driving down to the PO.
IMHO USPS is shooting themselves in the foot by obscuring low cost options. But it's not deception by the clerks in my experience. It's misguided marketing by corporate USPS.
Lars
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I must go to the only good post office in the world. When someone walks up to the counter and wants to mail something, the clerks go down the list of services and costs. The customer then selects the service desired, and pays.
The only recent incident I observed was an old grumpy, miserable man who wanted to mail a large box. He refused to pay the postage, because as he yelled out for all to hear, many years ago he was able to mail out such packages for just a dollar. He then stormed out of the post office. Can you spell, "moron"?
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"When someone walks up to the counter and wants to mail something, the clerks go down the list of services and costs. The customer then selects the service desired, and pays."
And that is what they are required to do. Even my "super clerk" who understands the term non-machinable surcharge" is required to offer me express, priority, etc. interspersed with our conversation. It is not the clerks, it comes from above.
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My post office usually asks something like, "How soon do you need it to get there and do you want a delivery confirmation?".
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My post office has it all posted on the wall !
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More importantly, was postage stamps used and canceled neatly? And will you daughter mail them back to you nicely trimmed from the cover? Just a different take on the story. No harm intended or implied
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"...in your original post, you provided little information but assumptions that the post office is involved in thievery or the clerk was ignorant over the mailing of a document that was of importance to your daughter (implying that time was of the essence).
"
I used the word "chicanery," which I intended to be milder than "thievery." If there is another theory that explains these facts besides ignorance or a deliberate intention to unnecessarily upsell the customer, I would be happy to entertain it. The clerk did not offer a menu of options beginning with the most expensive; the clerk explicitly ruled out a request to use the lowest-cost option. If the clerk was acting under instructions in so doing, then it is the USPS that is engaged in . . . chicanery.
Not all important items are urgent. The only representation regarding importance was the one implicit in the request for tracking.
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I'm just surprised that people haven't realized this yet after years of presumably dealing with USPS. I rarely if ever enter a post office. Perhaps the only time in the last ten years was to renew a passport. Yet, I was already aware the USPS upsells its services and always has when you ask for anything other than "send this crap to X". The extra pressure to decide quickly was always there, because of long lines (which probably only indicates I entered a PO at peak times to send important junk like IRS returns and Xmas packages).
That doesn't excuse the USPS from seeming to employ tactics to extract the highest payment from customers. Its just curious to see minor outrage after so many years of the obvious.
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"That doesn't excuse the USPS from seeming to employ tactics to extract the highest payment from customers. Its just curious to see minor outrage after so many years of the obvious."
Agreed. The clerks are trained to upsell to Priority. When you present an envelope or package at the counter at my local PO they will immediately go down that path.
Truth is, I've mailed Priority and First class at the same time, and it gets to where it's going at the same time.
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"Truth is, I've mailed Priority and First class at the same time, and it gets to where it's going at the same time."
that's because there's no difference, other than PM comes with tracking and, if you want, a free envelope/box. They are both first class mail.
Much earlier in its existence, PM was touted as 2-day mail, but when the USPS wouldn't guarantee it, they were required to eliminate that description. That delivery time, however, has stuck with many consumers, regardless of its accuracy.
Of course, most mail arrives in two days anyway, assuming it's handed in the morning and included in the evening's shipments to destination cities.
The USPS could be clearer in these descriptions, AND it could reduce upselling, but most companies do this, and it's up to the consumer to know what they want (need). And there are clerks who don't know what they're doing; and some are surly.
BUT, the USPS delivers efficiently and cheaply and with few losses. I think we need remember this.
My local PO has some of the best clerks around; they know me; they know my dog (and she responds by resting paws and snout on the counter to get the treats they stock just for her); and they know I know the regs and defer to me. The GPO, just down the street from my office, is in Dante's fifth rung, and its primary transactions are postal, but financial. I avoid it like the plague. Which is why I always mail Saturdays, from my local PO.
Let's please, please, please not forget that the USPS is incredibly good at what it's supposed to do.
David (and Dehlia)
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Like amsd, I am well known at both post offices in Brechin.
I write the weight and postage cost on the "package" and the clerks accept my results as they know me.
It also saves time as they don't need to weigh the items or check the postage rate.
The result is happiness all around.
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I think that there is one ( or more) of 3 problems here
1) An over-complex regulation regime which requires a higher level of competence than the target employee is likely to be able to acquire ( not to say that it applies to all individuals).
2) An inadequate ( or non-existent ) training programme.
3) A conflict of interest between service to the customer and maximising revenue. Basically taking a commercial approach to maximising revenue and offering a universal affordable postal service are incompatible, which is why privatising any universal postal system fully can never ever be a success. Yes the post office should be business like in it's operation but it can never operate in a fully commercial sense and still fulfil it's statutory obligations. Those politicians who think it can are living in la-la-land. Any logistics operation is selective in what business it accepts, and for the post office to succeed commercially it would have do the same, thus destroying universal access.
Malcolm
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perfectly stated Malcolm
and, it's especially important to reiterate the impossibility of a viable commercial enterprise charged with universal mail delivery. they cannot coexist
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08:42:48pm
The daughter is off at college and we needed to mail her a document of importance. Since my wife was off today I asked her to toddle off to the PO to send it certified so that it could be tracked. Total cost of this service for a 1oz. letter should be $3.95. Postal clerk tells her she has to send it Priority for $6.70, and not being an expert mailer she ponies up. The extra $2.75 won't break me, but this pointless 70% upsell chaps my hide. How common is this sort of thing? Is it more likely ignorance or chicanery?
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09:14:25pm
re: Modest ripoff at the hands of the USPS
Your wife probably told the clerk that she needed to get the document to your daughter as soon as possible. The clerk (if this clerk follows protocol) probably gave your wife the alternatives to get the document to your daughter in the fastest method possible based on the amount of money she was willing to spend on the service. Priority mail will get it to her in two days. The ignorance is on the customer not knowing what the options are, or the instructions given to the customer before she went to the post office were insufficient. Don't blame the post office.
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10:07:06pm
re: Modest ripoff at the hands of the USPS
Wow. It's impressive that Michael is able to rule out a priori the possibility that the clerk was in error given that he has neither first-hand nor hearsay knowledge of the interaction between customer and clerk.
1) I asked my wife to send the piece certified (the "instructions") and she approached the counter with the addressed envelope and a filled-out certified mail sticker. Although she said "I would like to send this tracked," rather than "I would like to send this certified," I would think that the sticker sufficiently signaled her intent.
2) My wife did not indicate that time was a factor.
3) The clerk's reply was "You'll have to send it Priority." The customer's choice to defer to the clerk may represent "ignorance," but only insofar as the customer was not confident enough in her knowledge to dispute the incorrect assertion of the presumed expert. IMO the customer's mistake was assuming the clerk knew her job.
This is not the Lindbergh kidnapping, and I wasn't trying to start a wrangle. I'm honestly interested in how often these sorts of experiences occur. I'm a fan of the USPS and I've had good luck with this particular branch. But this was the PO's fail.
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re: Modest ripoff at the hands of the USPS
"The extra $2.75 won't break me, but this pointless 70% upsell chaps my hide. How common is this sort of thing? Is it more likely ignorance or chicanery?"
Based on my experience, the answer is A.
On more than one occasion I have had to educate the postal employee about the services they provide. NEVER have I received any negative feedback or treatment (as far as I know). In my opinion, they just don't know all the rules. Anytime I want to do something "unusual" at the post office (like sending a letter as a package), I usually print off the relevant regs and take them with me. I can count on having to use them more than 10% of the time.
Having said that, I don't consider Certified Mail to be "unusual" enough to warrant ignorance on the part of the postal employee. So your wife encountered an unusually uninformed employee or your wife was confused by the (intentionally) biased presentation of options. If you go to USPS.com to see how much it costs to mail a one ounce letter, your first option is Priority. You have to scroll past 10 other Priority options just to find out what a first class stamp costs. It's not the clerk. It's USPS culture. And THAT is chicanery.
JMHO
Lars
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11:12:57pm
re: Modest ripoff at the hands of the USPS
Wow. It's impressive that in your original post, you provided little information but assumptions that the post office is involved in thievery or the clerk was ignorant over the mailing of a document that was of importance to your daughter (implying that time was of the essence). Nothing was originally stated as in the reply, where more factors were provided to support the original claim. I only had the hearsay provided in the OP to draw a supposition.
From my experiences in the post office listening to customers who don't have a clue, I would side with the postal clerk. I still say don't blame the post office.
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re: Modest ripoff at the hands of the USPS
I must be missing something.
There seems to be an unusual amount of animus here. I could have easily posted the same OP myself, except that I would have assumed my wife was confused by the intentionally slanted presentation of options. I wouldn't blame my wife or the clerk, but I do hold USPS responsible for the obfuscation. We have UPS and FedEx shipping accounts at my business, so my wife is now inclined to just send anything special UPS or FedEx instead of driving down to the PO.
IMHO USPS is shooting themselves in the foot by obscuring low cost options. But it's not deception by the clerks in my experience. It's misguided marketing by corporate USPS.
Lars
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01:18:30am
re: Modest ripoff at the hands of the USPS
I must go to the only good post office in the world. When someone walks up to the counter and wants to mail something, the clerks go down the list of services and costs. The customer then selects the service desired, and pays.
The only recent incident I observed was an old grumpy, miserable man who wanted to mail a large box. He refused to pay the postage, because as he yelled out for all to hear, many years ago he was able to mail out such packages for just a dollar. He then stormed out of the post office. Can you spell, "moron"?
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04:08:41am
re: Modest ripoff at the hands of the USPS
"When someone walks up to the counter and wants to mail something, the clerks go down the list of services and costs. The customer then selects the service desired, and pays."
And that is what they are required to do. Even my "super clerk" who understands the term non-machinable surcharge" is required to offer me express, priority, etc. interspersed with our conversation. It is not the clerks, it comes from above.
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05:11:54am
re: Modest ripoff at the hands of the USPS
My post office usually asks something like, "How soon do you need it to get there and do you want a delivery confirmation?".
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06:24:44am
re: Modest ripoff at the hands of the USPS
My post office has it all posted on the wall !
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re: Modest ripoff at the hands of the USPS
More importantly, was postage stamps used and canceled neatly? And will you daughter mail them back to you nicely trimmed from the cover? Just a different take on the story. No harm intended or implied.
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11:03:38pm
re: Modest ripoff at the hands of the USPS
"...in your original post, you provided little information but assumptions that the post office is involved in thievery or the clerk was ignorant over the mailing of a document that was of importance to your daughter (implying that time was of the essence).
"
I used the word "chicanery," which I intended to be milder than "thievery." If there is another theory that explains these facts besides ignorance or a deliberate intention to unnecessarily upsell the customer, I would be happy to entertain it. The clerk did not offer a menu of options beginning with the most expensive; the clerk explicitly ruled out a request to use the lowest-cost option. If the clerk was acting under instructions in so doing, then it is the USPS that is engaged in . . . chicanery.
Not all important items are urgent. The only representation regarding importance was the one implicit in the request for tracking.
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re: Modest ripoff at the hands of the USPS
I'm just surprised that people haven't realized this yet after years of presumably dealing with USPS. I rarely if ever enter a post office. Perhaps the only time in the last ten years was to renew a passport. Yet, I was already aware the USPS upsells its services and always has when you ask for anything other than "send this crap to X". The extra pressure to decide quickly was always there, because of long lines (which probably only indicates I entered a PO at peak times to send important junk like IRS returns and Xmas packages).
That doesn't excuse the USPS from seeming to employ tactics to extract the highest payment from customers. Its just curious to see minor outrage after so many years of the obvious.
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re: Modest ripoff at the hands of the USPS
"That doesn't excuse the USPS from seeming to employ tactics to extract the highest payment from customers. Its just curious to see minor outrage after so many years of the obvious."
Agreed. The clerks are trained to upsell to Priority. When you present an envelope or package at the counter at my local PO they will immediately go down that path.
Truth is, I've mailed Priority and First class at the same time, and it gets to where it's going at the same time.
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re: Modest ripoff at the hands of the USPS
"Truth is, I've mailed Priority and First class at the same time, and it gets to where it's going at the same time."
that's because there's no difference, other than PM comes with tracking and, if you want, a free envelope/box. They are both first class mail.
Much earlier in its existence, PM was touted as 2-day mail, but when the USPS wouldn't guarantee it, they were required to eliminate that description. That delivery time, however, has stuck with many consumers, regardless of its accuracy.
Of course, most mail arrives in two days anyway, assuming it's handed in the morning and included in the evening's shipments to destination cities.
The USPS could be clearer in these descriptions, AND it could reduce upselling, but most companies do this, and it's up to the consumer to know what they want (need). And there are clerks who don't know what they're doing; and some are surly.
BUT, the USPS delivers efficiently and cheaply and with few losses. I think we need remember this.
My local PO has some of the best clerks around; they know me; they know my dog (and she responds by resting paws and snout on the counter to get the treats they stock just for her); and they know I know the regs and defer to me. The GPO, just down the street from my office, is in Dante's fifth rung, and its primary transactions are postal, but financial. I avoid it like the plague. Which is why I always mail Saturdays, from my local PO.
Let's please, please, please not forget that the USPS is incredibly good at what it's supposed to do.
David (and Dehlia)
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09:32:28am
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re: Modest ripoff at the hands of the USPS
Like amsd, I am well known at both post offices in Brechin.
I write the weight and postage cost on the "package" and the clerks accept my results as they know me.
It also saves time as they don't need to weigh the items or check the postage rate.
The result is happiness all around.
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06:26:27pm
re: Modest ripoff at the hands of the USPS
I think that there is one ( or more) of 3 problems here
1) An over-complex regulation regime which requires a higher level of competence than the target employee is likely to be able to acquire ( not to say that it applies to all individuals).
2) An inadequate ( or non-existent ) training programme.
3) A conflict of interest between service to the customer and maximising revenue. Basically taking a commercial approach to maximising revenue and offering a universal affordable postal service are incompatible, which is why privatising any universal postal system fully can never ever be a success. Yes the post office should be business like in it's operation but it can never operate in a fully commercial sense and still fulfil it's statutory obligations. Those politicians who think it can are living in la-la-land. Any logistics operation is selective in what business it accepts, and for the post office to succeed commercially it would have do the same, thus destroying universal access.
Malcolm
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re: Modest ripoff at the hands of the USPS
perfectly stated Malcolm
and, it's especially important to reiterate the impossibility of a viable commercial enterprise charged with universal mail delivery. they cannot coexist
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