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General Philatelic/Identify This? : Possible Ben Franklin 594? Please help.

 

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Equinista

05 Sep 2018
03:23:09am
I know nothing of stamps..however, i may have an off-set waste rotary 954... can someone give me some idea, advice, any help at all as to what it may be? Thank you so very very kindly. (:

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michael78651

05 Sep 2018
03:34:45am
re: Possible Ben Franklin 594? Please help.

You said you know nothing about stamps, but yet you believe you can make such a claim.

Typical. So typical to gravitate to the most expensive rather than to presume that one has the least expensive variety, and one that is damaged so severely that it is worth absolutely nothing. Extraordinary claims must have extraordinary evidence to support it. There is nothing here to support your claim.

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51Studebaker
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Dialysis, damned if you do...dead if you don't

05 Sep 2018
03:36:28am
re: Possible Ben Franklin 594? Please help.

Have you checked the perforations? A 594 is perforated 11 x 11. Your stamp is perforated 11 x 10.5 so it is not a 594. The color is also not correct for a 594 (which is only found in a dark green), and stamps with this Franklin design that are this yellow/green are always a later (1927) printing. Your stamp is a #632.

http://www.stampsmarter.com/1847usa/1922identifier.html

Hunting for the rare stamps can be fun but we have to guard against conformation bias. It is best to always start with the assumption that you have the most common, inexpensive stamp.
Don

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michael78651

05 Sep 2018
03:42:16am
re: Possible Ben Franklin 594? Please help.

With all the people who pop in here claiming that they have a #594, one would think that the #594 is more common than the #632.

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lemaven
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05 Sep 2018
07:27:55am
re: Possible Ben Franklin 594? Please help.

I always liked the saying.

"If you hear the sound of hoof steps behind you, dont turn around expecting to see a zebra."



Dave
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pigdoc

05 Sep 2018
08:50:34am
re: Possible Ben Franklin 594? Please help.

One of my favorite quotes, from Bill Mauldin, the WWII cartoonist:

(Willy says to Joe, as they squat in a trench): "Why couldn't you have been born a beautiful woman?"

-Paul

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rbpuzzles
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Conquering the world one stamp at a time

05 Sep 2018
09:21:06am
re: Possible Ben Franklin 594? Please help.

I find it amazing. All the veteran stamp collectors, who have searched for a 594 for years, even decades, and found none, but every non-collector seems to find them with no effort. They are RARE for a reason. I myself bought a hoard of about 3000 1c greens, hoping to get lucky. All I found was the Visine and Advil from the medicine cabinet.

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Snick1946
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APS Life Member

05 Sep 2018
09:48:02am
re: Possible Ben Franklin 594? Please help.

I participate in a half dozen other stamp forums. Threads like this are becoming commonplace lately. Someone finds an old stamp, usually a ratty one then just assumes it is the most valuable variant. In nearly all cases it is apparent the poster is not interested in becoming a collector. They just want to see if someone can confirm they have a treasure so they can make a killing on it then go on and forget about stamps.

I hope the OP doesn't feel we've been too hard on them. It's just that after awhile it gets old.

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Webpaper

In loving memory of Carol, my wife for 52 years.

05 Sep 2018
10:01:02am

Approvals
re: Possible Ben Franklin 594? Please help.

In fairness I don't know many collectors (or dealers for that matter) who don't spend time poking through dollar boxes and old collections looking for hard to find items.

Among the "not too hard to find items" I look for at shows are grilled 3 cent banknotes on cover, Scott #25's priced as Scott #26, dpo's, manuscript cancels, and fancy cancels (and possibilities). Things I no longer look for are Scott #10's and pink Scott $65's (those yellow envelopes used to get me all the time).

You lose a lot when you quit dreaming.


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michael78651

05 Sep 2018
10:25:12am
re: Possible Ben Franklin 594? Please help.

"You lose a lot when you quit dreaming."



That's true, but too many people have no knowledge of what they're doing (not just stamps), and won't take the time to learn at least the basics. They believe they're on a super interstate highway, when all they are on is a broken down dirt road.
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51Studebaker
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Dialysis, damned if you do...dead if you don't

05 Sep 2018
10:44:55am
re: Possible Ben Franklin 594? Please help.

Over on the SCF forum we have over 70 threads started concerning finding a 594 (none were). This is one of the reasons I am often ambivalent about threads which truly describe real rare finds; they can influence opinions on the odds of actually making a rare find.

That said, I view each of these inquiry threads as an opportunity to not simply help someone but to also to occasionally turn a non-hobbyist into a hobbyist. Frankly, I dislike a strictly ‘treasure hunting’ persepctive of our hobby; this hobby has many other great attributes beyond simply ‘getting rich quick’. And while I strive to avoid making assumptions about a poster’s motives (I think that assumptions about people’s motive are a HUGE problem in our world right now) I admit I do sometimes get frustrated in other situations where a poster will argue with the good input and help they are receiving. Thankfully this poster was not pushing back in this way.

I hope this community does not jump to conclusions and gives the less experienced folks the benefit of the doubt.
Don

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michael78651

05 Sep 2018
11:52:07am
re: Possible Ben Franklin 594? Please help.

Maybe it would be better to not respond to such posts until the person making such claims provides their rationale for why they think they have the "great find". Then a response can be made showing how they were right or wrong and why.

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smauggie
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05 Sep 2018
02:42:50pm
re: Possible Ben Franklin 594? Please help.

On another forum I belong to (non-philatelic) poorly put claims about an item are simply ignored.

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amsd
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Editor, Seal News; contributor, JuicyHeads

05 Sep 2018
02:45:48pm
re: Possible Ben Franklin 594? Please help.

i think that this is just two different angles of fool's gold: him thinking he had a rare stamp and we hoping we might have a collector. Neither is probable, although possible.

A simple "no" works; but if there's the slightest sparkle, then an enticement to learn more is always worth the gamble, IF the "come hither" is expressed correctly and warmly

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HungaryForStamps
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05 Sep 2018
10:23:17pm
re: Possible Ben Franklin 594? Please help.

Don't you think you are being rather harsh about the OP's question? He was polite and didn't make any "claim" as implied by some of the harsher responses. Why not wait for an argument from the OP or a "claim" before going to town on him? I understand these questions are all too common.

Here's what he said. Sounds pretty tame to me:

"I know nothing of stamps..however, i may have an off-set waste rotary 954... can someone give me some idea, advice, any help at all as to what it may be? Thank you so very very kindly. (:"



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rickben2
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05 Sep 2018
11:39:32pm
re: Possible Ben Franklin 594? Please help.

I think everyone is being a little harsh on him also. After all, no one says anything about the guy who is constantly asking for catalog information about stamps that he posts in this topic.

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51Studebaker
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Dialysis, damned if you do...dead if you don't

06 Sep 2018
08:14:00am
re: Possible Ben Franklin 594? Please help.

Chris,
While this is indeed a new user to this forum, they used their real name for their user name and have joined using a legitimate email address (which also has their real name). A troll would never do that. I think the only ‘sin’ here is an inexperienced person asking an innocent question with the incorrect assumption that they might have a rare stamp.
Don

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"Current Score... Don 1 - Cancer 0"

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BenFranklin1902
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Tom in Exton, PA

06 Sep 2018
09:04:38am
re: Possible Ben Franklin 594? Please help.

I’m with Don here. Let’s be kind and give folks the benefit of the doubt. Otherwise we will scare off potential members and posters. We don’t want to get the reputation of the udder board! ????

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TribalErnie

06 Sep 2018
09:20:19am
re: Possible Ben Franklin 594? Please help.

Exactly. . . Why not view it for what it is, amusing. Kind of sad reading posts suggesting that the person be ignored etc. No one loses anything because the gal is dreaming about having a big money stamp.

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fredcdobbs
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APS # 224327

07 Sep 2018
10:59:05pm
re: Possible Ben Franklin 594? Please help.

Welcome to STAMPBOARDS.com

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DannyS
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09 Sep 2018
12:49:20am
re: Possible Ben Franklin 594? Please help.

""If you hear the sound of hoof steps behind you, don't turn around expecting to see a zebra.""



Mind you, if you lived in the Serengeti you may be more surprised by a horse.
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stockflyer
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15 Sep 2018
08:32:29pm
re: Possible Ben Franklin 594? Please help.

So I'm guessing that little collection of 594's I built ---- isn't?

D'Oh

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Harvey
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This is my diabetic cat OBI! I think, therefore I am - I think! Descartes, sort of!

27 Apr 2019
03:21:15pm
re: Possible Ben Franklin 594? Please help.

I was really excited for a while - I looked at my US want list and realized that 594 wasn't there. I MUST HAVE IT! Then I looked in my Liberty album where my want list originates - they don't have a place for 594 - WHAT A LET DOWN. It's really weird the way albums work. My Canadian album has a spot for #32 ( only 3 known ) but my US album is missing a stamp worth a mere $11 000 used. I must pop this stamp on my want list - I wonder what else is missing. I guess albums are not made for the Rockefeller's of the world only poor people like us. If anyone out there has a spare 594 give me a shout - MAYBE WE CAN DO A TRADE!!!

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"Some people see things that are and ask, Why? Some people dream of things that never were and ask, Why not? Some people have to go to work and don't have time for all that. George Carlin"
51Studebaker
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Dialysis, damned if you do...dead if you don't

27 Apr 2019
04:10:31pm
re: Possible Ben Franklin 594? Please help.

Since this thread was started, Anglophile (Chris) was kind enough to author a great article on identifying W/F stamps of this era. It should be required reading for all US collectors.

http://stampsmarter.com/learning/ID_WF%20Rotary%20Press%20Rarities.html

Don

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"Current Score... Don 1 - Cancer 0"

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Author/Postings
Equinista

05 Sep 2018
03:23:09am

I know nothing of stamps..however, i may have an off-set waste rotary 954... can someone give me some idea, advice, any help at all as to what it may be? Thank you so very very kindly. (:

Image Not Found
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michael78651

05 Sep 2018
03:34:45am

re: Possible Ben Franklin 594? Please help.

You said you know nothing about stamps, but yet you believe you can make such a claim.

Typical. So typical to gravitate to the most expensive rather than to presume that one has the least expensive variety, and one that is damaged so severely that it is worth absolutely nothing. Extraordinary claims must have extraordinary evidence to support it. There is nothing here to support your claim.

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51Studebaker

Dialysis, damned if you do...dead if you don't
05 Sep 2018
03:36:28am

re: Possible Ben Franklin 594? Please help.

Have you checked the perforations? A 594 is perforated 11 x 11. Your stamp is perforated 11 x 10.5 so it is not a 594. The color is also not correct for a 594 (which is only found in a dark green), and stamps with this Franklin design that are this yellow/green are always a later (1927) printing. Your stamp is a #632.

http://www.stampsmarter.com/1847usa/1922identifier.html

Hunting for the rare stamps can be fun but we have to guard against conformation bias. It is best to always start with the assumption that you have the most common, inexpensive stamp.
Don

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"Current Score... Don 1 - Cancer 0"

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michael78651

05 Sep 2018
03:42:16am

re: Possible Ben Franklin 594? Please help.

With all the people who pop in here claiming that they have a #594, one would think that the #594 is more common than the #632.

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lemaven

05 Sep 2018
07:27:55am

re: Possible Ben Franklin 594? Please help.

I always liked the saying.

"If you hear the sound of hoof steps behind you, dont turn around expecting to see a zebra."



Dave
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pigdoc

05 Sep 2018
08:50:34am

re: Possible Ben Franklin 594? Please help.

One of my favorite quotes, from Bill Mauldin, the WWII cartoonist:

(Willy says to Joe, as they squat in a trench): "Why couldn't you have been born a beautiful woman?"

-Paul

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rbpuzzles

Conquering the world one stamp at a time
05 Sep 2018
09:21:06am

re: Possible Ben Franklin 594? Please help.

I find it amazing. All the veteran stamp collectors, who have searched for a 594 for years, even decades, and found none, but every non-collector seems to find them with no effort. They are RARE for a reason. I myself bought a hoard of about 3000 1c greens, hoping to get lucky. All I found was the Visine and Advil from the medicine cabinet.

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likes this post.
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Members Picture
Snick1946

APS Life Member
05 Sep 2018
09:48:02am

re: Possible Ben Franklin 594? Please help.

I participate in a half dozen other stamp forums. Threads like this are becoming commonplace lately. Someone finds an old stamp, usually a ratty one then just assumes it is the most valuable variant. In nearly all cases it is apparent the poster is not interested in becoming a collector. They just want to see if someone can confirm they have a treasure so they can make a killing on it then go on and forget about stamps.

I hope the OP doesn't feel we've been too hard on them. It's just that after awhile it gets old.

Like
Login to Like
this post
Webpaper

In loving memory of Carol, my wife for 52 years.

05 Sep 2018
10:01:02am

Approvals

re: Possible Ben Franklin 594? Please help.

In fairness I don't know many collectors (or dealers for that matter) who don't spend time poking through dollar boxes and old collections looking for hard to find items.

Among the "not too hard to find items" I look for at shows are grilled 3 cent banknotes on cover, Scott #25's priced as Scott #26, dpo's, manuscript cancels, and fancy cancels (and possibilities). Things I no longer look for are Scott #10's and pink Scott $65's (those yellow envelopes used to get me all the time).

You lose a lot when you quit dreaming.


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www.hipstamp.com/sto ...
michael78651

05 Sep 2018
10:25:12am

re: Possible Ben Franklin 594? Please help.

"You lose a lot when you quit dreaming."



That's true, but too many people have no knowledge of what they're doing (not just stamps), and won't take the time to learn at least the basics. They believe they're on a super interstate highway, when all they are on is a broken down dirt road.
Like
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51Studebaker

Dialysis, damned if you do...dead if you don't
05 Sep 2018
10:44:55am

re: Possible Ben Franklin 594? Please help.

Over on the SCF forum we have over 70 threads started concerning finding a 594 (none were). This is one of the reasons I am often ambivalent about threads which truly describe real rare finds; they can influence opinions on the odds of actually making a rare find.

That said, I view each of these inquiry threads as an opportunity to not simply help someone but to also to occasionally turn a non-hobbyist into a hobbyist. Frankly, I dislike a strictly ‘treasure hunting’ persepctive of our hobby; this hobby has many other great attributes beyond simply ‘getting rich quick’. And while I strive to avoid making assumptions about a poster’s motives (I think that assumptions about people’s motive are a HUGE problem in our world right now) I admit I do sometimes get frustrated in other situations where a poster will argue with the good input and help they are receiving. Thankfully this poster was not pushing back in this way.

I hope this community does not jump to conclusions and gives the less experienced folks the benefit of the doubt.
Don

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"Current Score... Don 1 - Cancer 0"

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michael78651

05 Sep 2018
11:52:07am

re: Possible Ben Franklin 594? Please help.

Maybe it would be better to not respond to such posts until the person making such claims provides their rationale for why they think they have the "great find". Then a response can be made showing how they were right or wrong and why.

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smauggie

05 Sep 2018
02:42:50pm

re: Possible Ben Franklin 594? Please help.

On another forum I belong to (non-philatelic) poorly put claims about an item are simply ignored.

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canalzonepostalhisto ...
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amsd

Editor, Seal News; contributor, JuicyHeads
05 Sep 2018
02:45:48pm

re: Possible Ben Franklin 594? Please help.

i think that this is just two different angles of fool's gold: him thinking he had a rare stamp and we hoping we might have a collector. Neither is probable, although possible.

A simple "no" works; but if there's the slightest sparkle, then an enticement to learn more is always worth the gamble, IF the "come hither" is expressed correctly and warmly

Like
Login to Like
this post

"Save the USPS, buy stamps; save the hobby, use commemoratives"

juicyheads.com/link. ...
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HungaryForStamps

05 Sep 2018
10:23:17pm

re: Possible Ben Franklin 594? Please help.

Don't you think you are being rather harsh about the OP's question? He was polite and didn't make any "claim" as implied by some of the harsher responses. Why not wait for an argument from the OP or a "claim" before going to town on him? I understand these questions are all too common.

Here's what he said. Sounds pretty tame to me:

"I know nothing of stamps..however, i may have an off-set waste rotary 954... can someone give me some idea, advice, any help at all as to what it may be? Thank you so very very kindly. (:"



Like 
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rickben2

05 Sep 2018
11:39:32pm

re: Possible Ben Franklin 594? Please help.

I think everyone is being a little harsh on him also. After all, no one says anything about the guy who is constantly asking for catalog information about stamps that he posts in this topic.

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51Studebaker

Dialysis, damned if you do...dead if you don't
06 Sep 2018
08:14:00am

re: Possible Ben Franklin 594? Please help.

Chris,
While this is indeed a new user to this forum, they used their real name for their user name and have joined using a legitimate email address (which also has their real name). A troll would never do that. I think the only ‘sin’ here is an inexperienced person asking an innocent question with the incorrect assumption that they might have a rare stamp.
Don

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"Current Score... Don 1 - Cancer 0"

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BenFranklin1902

Tom in Exton, PA
06 Sep 2018
09:04:38am

re: Possible Ben Franklin 594? Please help.

I’m with Don here. Let’s be kind and give folks the benefit of the doubt. Otherwise we will scare off potential members and posters. We don’t want to get the reputation of the udder board! ????

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"Check out my eBay Stuff! Username Turtles-Trading-Post"
TribalErnie

06 Sep 2018
09:20:19am

re: Possible Ben Franklin 594? Please help.

Exactly. . . Why not view it for what it is, amusing. Kind of sad reading posts suggesting that the person be ignored etc. No one loses anything because the gal is dreaming about having a big money stamp.

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fredcdobbs

APS # 224327
07 Sep 2018
10:59:05pm

re: Possible Ben Franklin 594? Please help.

Welcome to STAMPBOARDS.com

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DannyS

09 Sep 2018
12:49:20am

re: Possible Ben Franklin 594? Please help.

""If you hear the sound of hoof steps behind you, don't turn around expecting to see a zebra.""



Mind you, if you lived in the Serengeti you may be more surprised by a horse.
Like 
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stockflyer

15 Sep 2018
08:32:29pm

re: Possible Ben Franklin 594? Please help.

So I'm guessing that little collection of 594's I built ---- isn't?

D'Oh

Like
Login to Like
this post

This is my diabetic cat OBI! I think, therefore I am - I think! Descartes, sort of!
27 Apr 2019
03:21:15pm

re: Possible Ben Franklin 594? Please help.

I was really excited for a while - I looked at my US want list and realized that 594 wasn't there. I MUST HAVE IT! Then I looked in my Liberty album where my want list originates - they don't have a place for 594 - WHAT A LET DOWN. It's really weird the way albums work. My Canadian album has a spot for #32 ( only 3 known ) but my US album is missing a stamp worth a mere $11 000 used. I must pop this stamp on my want list - I wonder what else is missing. I guess albums are not made for the Rockefeller's of the world only poor people like us. If anyone out there has a spare 594 give me a shout - MAYBE WE CAN DO A TRADE!!!

Like
Login to Like
this post

"Some people see things that are and ask, Why? Some people dream of things that never were and ask, Why not? Some people have to go to work and don't have time for all that. George Carlin"
Members Picture
51Studebaker

Dialysis, damned if you do...dead if you don't
27 Apr 2019
04:10:31pm

re: Possible Ben Franklin 594? Please help.

Since this thread was started, Anglophile (Chris) was kind enough to author a great article on identifying W/F stamps of this era. It should be required reading for all US collectors.

http://stampsmarter.com/learning/ID_WF%20Rotary%20Press%20Rarities.html

Don

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"Current Score... Don 1 - Cancer 0"

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