Discussion - Member to Member Sales - Research Center
Discussion - Member to Member Sales - Research Center
PLEASE HELP this stamp has a yellowish paper and the difference between varieties is whether the GUM is white, yellow or brown. With a yellow background how do you tell? Any ideas? Thanks!
(Previous owner couldn't decide between 1a and 1b and penciled on back)
Karen in Arkansas
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Oh gosh.
I've been specializing in DWI for years, but only on the used side.
Determining if the gum is original, let alone a catalogued shade would seem to be a task for TRUE experts, given that the stamp is ~160 years old...and scarce.
But, let's PM on early DWI! I'm chasing down minor varieties myself, looking for combos.
-Paul
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Yeah color identification does not work over the internet. It looks like 1b is super rare. It also looks like this stamp has a thin possibly as the design shows through on the back? If you felt it worth the cost you could always send it in for expertisation.
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First I'd carefully erase the pencil marks, and see what effect that has on viewing the back of the stamp. The black pencil marking will work against your eyes and images by making the back of the stamp appear darker than it really is. Thus another reason to not write on the back of stamps.
Offhand, from what I can see, I would say that the gum is probably yellowish as the brown gum would make the back of the stamp appear to be toned. However, you'll still need to clean up the back of the stamp and probably get a certificate if you really need a definitive answer. However, the stamp is damaged, so any value will be severely affected.
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I concur with Michael.
I was thinking about the condition of this stamp myself. It certainly has had a hard life for a mint OG stamp, don't you agree? If it had been cared for as the rarity it's purported to be, it wouldn't have the rounded corners or the gouges in the edges at the upper right. Also, think about how that thin occurred. Hinge removal? If the stamp had contact with the adhesive from a hinge (or, multiple hinges), that's going to contaminate what little OG that remains. The implication of my "160 years" statement is that it seems likely that this stamp passed through the hands of many owners, each with their own um, secrets.
I would be extremely leery of attempting to erase the pencil marks. The paper might not hold up to the friction necessary. That's a job for a paper restoration expert.
I have a number of stamps in my collection that *should* be expertized. However, their condition probably means that the cost of the expertization will not be recovered at (potential) sale.
Just my $0.02...
-Paul
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Karen,
Looks like I'm about 3+ years late to the party on this one!! I wasn't yet a member of SOR when you posted your question, and I just came across it this afternoon! While color is indeed a challenge over the internet, I believe your copy has yellow gum.
Long story short: There is a definite, visible difference between the three gums: white, brown, and yellow, as can be seen below. The "burelage" of the stamps will indicate whether they are part of the "first issue" or "second" issue. Only the first issue had the white/brown/yellow gum varieties. Burelage Types A and B are indicative of the first issue, while C and D or indicative of the 2nd issue (Scott/AFA/Facit #2), which is also lighter in color, and is more of a rose color than carmine. The burelage was an anti-counterfeiting measure, and can often be difficult to determine and may require strong magnification to sort out. Examples of the 4 types of burelage are shown further below.
The white/transparent gum applied in Copenhagen was similar to the gum used on Danish stamps at the time, with the addition of a bit of aloe vera (it was believed this would help prevent insects from eating the sheets). By the time the sheets arrived in the islands, the majority were stuck together, and the situation became worse as most of the balance also stuck together due to the tropical climate.
The sheets were soaked to separate them at the post offices, and in Christiansted a brown gum arabic purchased from the local pharmacy was applied from December of 1855 into 1856. Supposedly unimpressed with the gum used in Christiansted, the pharmacist in St. Thomas, A.H. Riise (a relative to me on my mother's side), created a concoction of gum arabic lighter in color, and this is the yellow gum variety. It is not known how many sheets with the brown and yellow gums were produced, nor how many with white gum survived. As mentioned in a previous post, examples with the white gum are by far the most challenging to find. It is also known that some of the stamps were simply glued to their respective covers with other types of glue.
Examples with brown gum (center stamp) are dark in color, and often appear "stained," which is normal. Those with yellow gum (stamp on right), particularly unused examples, tend to be much brighter in color, as seen below.
Four Types of Burelage: A & B are #1, while B &C are DWI #2
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PLEASE HELP this stamp has a yellowish paper and the difference between varieties is whether the GUM is white, yellow or brown. With a yellow background how do you tell? Any ideas? Thanks!
(Previous owner couldn't decide between 1a and 1b and penciled on back)
Karen in Arkansas
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07:16:19pm
re: Danish West Indies #1, 1a, 1b depending on gum color HELP
Oh gosh.
I've been specializing in DWI for years, but only on the used side.
Determining if the gum is original, let alone a catalogued shade would seem to be a task for TRUE experts, given that the stamp is ~160 years old...and scarce.
But, let's PM on early DWI! I'm chasing down minor varieties myself, looking for combos.
-Paul
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Login to Like.
re: Danish West Indies #1, 1a, 1b depending on gum color HELP
Yeah color identification does not work over the internet. It looks like 1b is super rare. It also looks like this stamp has a thin possibly as the design shows through on the back? If you felt it worth the cost you could always send it in for expertisation.
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Login to Like.
10:59:51pm
re: Danish West Indies #1, 1a, 1b depending on gum color HELP
First I'd carefully erase the pencil marks, and see what effect that has on viewing the back of the stamp. The black pencil marking will work against your eyes and images by making the back of the stamp appear darker than it really is. Thus another reason to not write on the back of stamps.
Offhand, from what I can see, I would say that the gum is probably yellowish as the brown gum would make the back of the stamp appear to be toned. However, you'll still need to clean up the back of the stamp and probably get a certificate if you really need a definitive answer. However, the stamp is damaged, so any value will be severely affected.
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08:57:29am
re: Danish West Indies #1, 1a, 1b depending on gum color HELP
I concur with Michael.
I was thinking about the condition of this stamp myself. It certainly has had a hard life for a mint OG stamp, don't you agree? If it had been cared for as the rarity it's purported to be, it wouldn't have the rounded corners or the gouges in the edges at the upper right. Also, think about how that thin occurred. Hinge removal? If the stamp had contact with the adhesive from a hinge (or, multiple hinges), that's going to contaminate what little OG that remains. The implication of my "160 years" statement is that it seems likely that this stamp passed through the hands of many owners, each with their own um, secrets.
I would be extremely leery of attempting to erase the pencil marks. The paper might not hold up to the friction necessary. That's a job for a paper restoration expert.
I have a number of stamps in my collection that *should* be expertized. However, their condition probably means that the cost of the expertization will not be recovered at (potential) sale.
Just my $0.02...
-Paul
1 Member
likes this post.
Login to Like.
re: Danish West Indies #1, 1a, 1b depending on gum color HELP
Karen,
Looks like I'm about 3+ years late to the party on this one!! I wasn't yet a member of SOR when you posted your question, and I just came across it this afternoon! While color is indeed a challenge over the internet, I believe your copy has yellow gum.
Long story short: There is a definite, visible difference between the three gums: white, brown, and yellow, as can be seen below. The "burelage" of the stamps will indicate whether they are part of the "first issue" or "second" issue. Only the first issue had the white/brown/yellow gum varieties. Burelage Types A and B are indicative of the first issue, while C and D or indicative of the 2nd issue (Scott/AFA/Facit #2), which is also lighter in color, and is more of a rose color than carmine. The burelage was an anti-counterfeiting measure, and can often be difficult to determine and may require strong magnification to sort out. Examples of the 4 types of burelage are shown further below.
The white/transparent gum applied in Copenhagen was similar to the gum used on Danish stamps at the time, with the addition of a bit of aloe vera (it was believed this would help prevent insects from eating the sheets). By the time the sheets arrived in the islands, the majority were stuck together, and the situation became worse as most of the balance also stuck together due to the tropical climate.
The sheets were soaked to separate them at the post offices, and in Christiansted a brown gum arabic purchased from the local pharmacy was applied from December of 1855 into 1856. Supposedly unimpressed with the gum used in Christiansted, the pharmacist in St. Thomas, A.H. Riise (a relative to me on my mother's side), created a concoction of gum arabic lighter in color, and this is the yellow gum variety. It is not known how many sheets with the brown and yellow gums were produced, nor how many with white gum survived. As mentioned in a previous post, examples with the white gum are by far the most challenging to find. It is also known that some of the stamps were simply glued to their respective covers with other types of glue.
Examples with brown gum (center stamp) are dark in color, and often appear "stained," which is normal. Those with yellow gum (stamp on right), particularly unused examples, tend to be much brighter in color, as seen below.
Four Types of Burelage: A & B are #1, while B &C are DWI #2
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