Discussion - Member to Member Sales - Research Center
Discussion - Member to Member Sales - Research Center
https://stamporama.com/discboard/disc_main.php?action=20&id=18691#151917
...showing a RETURN TO SENDER SERVICE SUSPENDED mark on a Vietnam cover. I like it because it was actually mailed 6 days before the event which caused the suspension.
Here's another:
This one was mailed about seven weeks after the event: "On 22 June, the Second Armistice at Compiègne was signed by France and Germany, which resulted in a division of France." This marked the beginning of Axis total domination of France, designated as June 25, 1940.
Sender was probably not a radio listener, or a newspaper reader, but was a wishful thinker...
This cover would have been flown on
I wish it had a receiver cancellation somewhere. It looks like it actually made it to Axis-occupied France. But, the paucity of date markings leaves me somewhat suspicious of its authenticity... On the other hand, the By Air Mail label and the stamp are tied...
Is there any technical way to determine the order in which markings were applied? I suppose, under a microscope, one could determine that red color was on top of black color on the individual paper fibers.
-Paul
PS, I don't know whether to put this in a Clipper cover collection, or a Wartime cover collection, or a Censored cover collection, or some kind of a markings collection
!PPS, or maybe, a Fakes collection. Need to keep that one SMALL!
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And, this one needs to be near the top:
Just came in the mail today! I got it in a sealed bid auction, which is a TRUE assessment of value, because bidders cannot use the current bid as a benchmark.
Anyway, it's an item I have been lusting to own for years - a Clipper cover undeliverable in the aftermath of the Pearl Harbor attack. Looks like a Christmas card to son James. CDS is a bit hard to read, but it looks like December 10 or 13 to me. Took more than 8 months to be returned. Probably didn't make it any farther West than Treasure Island. Rather dramatic strike of the address, don't you think?
Enjoy!
-Paul
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Here's another one:
Posted June 8, 1943, Returned to sender June 25. Loaded with markings.
I'm going to need a little help with translation of the markings on this one...Holstein2007, can you help?
On the obverse, the word scrawled diagonally in blue crayon looks to be very similar to the word underlined in red crayon. About all I can make out is that both start with a "Z" and seem to end with "rk".
The notation on the reverse is dated "23/6". I am presuming this is some kind of judgment on the letter's contents, and signed by the writer, but again, I cannot decipher the script.
"Udgevilsesdag" in the Kopenhavn CDS is "Publication Day", which I interpret to mean that this is also a First Day Cover! Scott shows this stamp being issued in 1943. I count only four stamps issued in total by Denmark in 1943!
The more boxes a cover checks, the more attracted to it I am. This one is:
-a First Day Cover
-a wartime German-censored cover
-an international cover
-Returned to Sender
-Danish
-Paul
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Hi pigdoc
I think it says - in German
"Denmark Unknown" (Dänemark unbekannt)
The notation on the reverse is dated "23/6”. I think it is a message from the person in Germany who return the letter - note it ends with the German "unbekannt" (unknown)
Best Tony
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I'll try ...
On the back of the cover is written "In Kassel-Waldau / bei Grünewald / unbekannt. 23/6 / Rodl" (although I am not too sure about the last word which is someone's signature) = "Unknown in Kassel-Waldau at the Gruenewald's". The word written in blue across the front of the letter is "Zurück" = "Return". The place name "Waldau" is also written next to the name Grünewald, but has been struck out again. Very likely, Mrs. Grünewald had moved to Waldau, but Mr. Knirch, her previous lodger, hadn't. The scribble at the top looks almost like "Gaswerk unbekannt", as if they had asked in the local gas works (back then, they made gas for heating and lighting from coal and water, instead of using natural gas), and had received no information there. Maybe someone remembered that "Herr Ingenieur Knirch" could have worked there, so it was worth an enquiry - but that's mere conjecture. I'm not sure what the markings at the bottom of the envelope mean.
Martin
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Thanks, SO much, guys!
In conversation with a specialist yesterday (Alan Warren), I mentioned this cover, and he immediately threw the word "zurück" at me as the likely word scrawled diagonally across the front of the cover in blue crayon, meaning "back". Which, is about as far as I got, until you guys posted!
Alan is a Scandinavian First Day Cover collector, and is interested in looking at this cover. I think it's somewhat unusual, for several reasons:
- it's non-philatelic
- it's international and censored
- there were only 4 regular issues by Denmark in 1943.
I would bet that international, censored, non-philatelic, first-day covers from 1943 are not that common...
-Paul
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And now this, from Wikipedia:
"Arthur Rödl (13 June 1898 in Munich – April 1945 in Stettin) was a German Standartenführer (Colonel) in the Waffen-SS and a Nazi concentration camp commandant.
Rödl was born into a Catholic family. His father worked as a messenger and his mother ran a newsstand. The stand closed when Rödl was ten, and he was told by his mother that it had shut down as she could not compete with a nearby stand run by a Jew. The incident helped to instill a sense of anti-Semitism in the young Rödl, who was involved in extreme nationalist groups from an early age. Rödl was apprenticed to a blacksmith when World War I broke out. He soon enlisted in the German Imperial Army by forging his age on his documents after initially being rejected for being only 16. He was seriously wounded at least once during the war, and was demobilized at the age of 20. He eventually worked for the post office.
Rödl quickly returned to far right activism and joined the Bund Oberland in 1920. His activities brought him frequent reprimands at work, for taking time off to travel with other Bund members to fight Poles in Upper Silesia, and using his window at the post office to hand out propaganda leaflets. When it became clear that he had participated in the Beer Hall Putsch he was dismissed by the post office"
Except that, by 1943, Arthur Rodl had moved WELL beyond the post office in his service to the National Socialists...
A relative, perhaps?
-Paul
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Don't read too much in a rushed signature - it could as well be "Radl" or "Raab", the latter being a fairly common surname. Also, at the time this letter was sent, it would have been more the rule than the exception for a German person to have a relative in the armed forces or in a "party" office.
-jmh
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08:48:19am
Bob got this thread started off with this excellent posting:
https://stamporama.com/discboard/disc_main.php?action=20&id=18691#151917
...showing a RETURN TO SENDER SERVICE SUSPENDED mark on a Vietnam cover. I like it because it was actually mailed 6 days before the event which caused the suspension.
Here's another:
This one was mailed about seven weeks after the event: "On 22 June, the Second Armistice at Compiègne was signed by France and Germany, which resulted in a division of France." This marked the beginning of Axis total domination of France, designated as June 25, 1940.
Sender was probably not a radio listener, or a newspaper reader, but was a wishful thinker...
This cover would have been flown on the Yankee ClipperCORRECTION: a Boeing 307 Stratoliner Clipper to Southampton, which began service with PanAm in March, 1940. The eight 307s that were built for TWA and PanAm were shortly commandeered for the war effort, designation C75.
I wish it had a receiver cancellation somewhere. It looks like it actually made it to Axis-occupied France. But, the paucity of date markings leaves me somewhat suspicious of its authenticity... On the other hand, the By Air Mail label and the stamp are tied...
Is there any technical way to determine the order in which markings were applied? I suppose, under a microscope, one could determine that red color was on top of black color on the individual paper fibers.
-Paul
PS, I don't know whether to put this in a Clipper cover collection, or a Wartime cover collection, or a Censored cover collection, or some kind of a markings collection!
PPS, or maybe, a Fakes collection. Need to keep that one SMALL!
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12:57:02pm
re: Return to Sender
And, this one needs to be near the top:
Just came in the mail today! I got it in a sealed bid auction, which is a TRUE assessment of value, because bidders cannot use the current bid as a benchmark.
Anyway, it's an item I have been lusting to own for years - a Clipper cover undeliverable in the aftermath of the Pearl Harbor attack. Looks like a Christmas card to son James. CDS is a bit hard to read, but it looks like December 10 or 13 to me. Took more than 8 months to be returned. Probably didn't make it any farther West than Treasure Island. Rather dramatic strike of the address, don't you think?
Enjoy!
-Paul
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11:01:42am
re: Return to Sender
Here's another one:
Posted June 8, 1943, Returned to sender June 25. Loaded with markings.
I'm going to need a little help with translation of the markings on this one...Holstein2007, can you help?
On the obverse, the word scrawled diagonally in blue crayon looks to be very similar to the word underlined in red crayon. About all I can make out is that both start with a "Z" and seem to end with "rk".
The notation on the reverse is dated "23/6". I am presuming this is some kind of judgment on the letter's contents, and signed by the writer, but again, I cannot decipher the script.
"Udgevilsesdag" in the Kopenhavn CDS is "Publication Day", which I interpret to mean that this is also a First Day Cover! Scott shows this stamp being issued in 1943. I count only four stamps issued in total by Denmark in 1943!
The more boxes a cover checks, the more attracted to it I am. This one is:
-a First Day Cover
-a wartime German-censored cover
-an international cover
-Returned to Sender
-Danish
-Paul
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11:26:30am
re: Return to Sender
Hi pigdoc
I think it says - in German
"Denmark Unknown" (Dänemark unbekannt)
The notation on the reverse is dated "23/6”. I think it is a message from the person in Germany who return the letter - note it ends with the German "unbekannt" (unknown)
Best Tony
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02:58:36pm
re: Return to Sender
I'll try ...
On the back of the cover is written "In Kassel-Waldau / bei Grünewald / unbekannt. 23/6 / Rodl" (although I am not too sure about the last word which is someone's signature) = "Unknown in Kassel-Waldau at the Gruenewald's". The word written in blue across the front of the letter is "Zurück" = "Return". The place name "Waldau" is also written next to the name Grünewald, but has been struck out again. Very likely, Mrs. Grünewald had moved to Waldau, but Mr. Knirch, her previous lodger, hadn't. The scribble at the top looks almost like "Gaswerk unbekannt", as if they had asked in the local gas works (back then, they made gas for heating and lighting from coal and water, instead of using natural gas), and had received no information there. Maybe someone remembered that "Herr Ingenieur Knirch" could have worked there, so it was worth an enquiry - but that's mere conjecture. I'm not sure what the markings at the bottom of the envelope mean.
Martin
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03:43:03pm
re: Return to Sender
Thanks, SO much, guys!
In conversation with a specialist yesterday (Alan Warren), I mentioned this cover, and he immediately threw the word "zurück" at me as the likely word scrawled diagonally across the front of the cover in blue crayon, meaning "back". Which, is about as far as I got, until you guys posted!
Alan is a Scandinavian First Day Cover collector, and is interested in looking at this cover. I think it's somewhat unusual, for several reasons:
- it's non-philatelic
- it's international and censored
- there were only 4 regular issues by Denmark in 1943.
I would bet that international, censored, non-philatelic, first-day covers from 1943 are not that common...
-Paul
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03:50:11pm
re: Return to Sender
And now this, from Wikipedia:
"Arthur Rödl (13 June 1898 in Munich – April 1945 in Stettin) was a German Standartenführer (Colonel) in the Waffen-SS and a Nazi concentration camp commandant.
Rödl was born into a Catholic family. His father worked as a messenger and his mother ran a newsstand. The stand closed when Rödl was ten, and he was told by his mother that it had shut down as she could not compete with a nearby stand run by a Jew. The incident helped to instill a sense of anti-Semitism in the young Rödl, who was involved in extreme nationalist groups from an early age. Rödl was apprenticed to a blacksmith when World War I broke out. He soon enlisted in the German Imperial Army by forging his age on his documents after initially being rejected for being only 16. He was seriously wounded at least once during the war, and was demobilized at the age of 20. He eventually worked for the post office.
Rödl quickly returned to far right activism and joined the Bund Oberland in 1920. His activities brought him frequent reprimands at work, for taking time off to travel with other Bund members to fight Poles in Upper Silesia, and using his window at the post office to hand out propaganda leaflets. When it became clear that he had participated in the Beer Hall Putsch he was dismissed by the post office"
Except that, by 1943, Arthur Rodl had moved WELL beyond the post office in his service to the National Socialists...
A relative, perhaps?
-Paul
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04:06:36pm
re: Return to Sender
Don't read too much in a rushed signature - it could as well be "Radl" or "Raab", the latter being a fairly common surname. Also, at the time this letter was sent, it would have been more the rule than the exception for a German person to have a relative in the armed forces or in a "party" office.
-jmh
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