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Discussion - Member to Member Sales - Research Center
Have identified this as India offices in Vietnam Scott #10 issued in 1962. However, I can not find any historical information on location, what the Indians were doing in Vietnam, length of use.. ect.. ect... ect... Even did a search at APRL and got back all of zero hits ! Any guidance would be appreciated. THANKS in advance !
Jere
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The overprint, I believe, was applied for use of British Indian troops who had been sent to Vietnam following the Geneva accords that established the countries of South Vietnam and North Vietnam, following the defeat of the French military at Dien Bien Phu in 1954. I will check tomorrow to make sure. The following is from Wikipedia:
"The International Control Commission (ICC) was an international force established in 1954. It oversaw the implementation of the Geneva Accords that ended the First Indochina War with the Partition of Vietnam. It reported on the progress of the ceasefires and any violations. The force had troops and officers from Canada, Poland, and India (later replaced with Iran), respectively representing the non-communist, communist, and non-aligned blocs."
Bob
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Here's a master's thesis on the ICC-Indochina (Indian policy begins p.59):
https://open.library.ubc.ca/cIRcle/collections/ubctheses/831/items/1.0093453
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Several India stamps were overprinted for the use of the ICCS. Here are a couple of ICCS covers from my collection; the second one has an enclosure, also pictured:
The enclosure in the second cover appears to be an invitation to a open house hosted by the Canadian ICCS delegation.
The main purpose of the ICCS was to facilitate the end of French colonialism in Indochina and assist in bringing about the reunification of Vietnam. The Geneva convention called for a free vote of the Vietnamese people to reunify North and South Vietnam or to keep them as separate countries. There is little doubt that a free vote would have resulted in reunification, but the United States opposed reunification because of the communist government of North Vietnam. Subsequently, the CIA orchestrated a "humanitarian" exodus of Vietnamese Catholics from North Vietnam to South Vietnam, where the Catholics could more easily support the Catholic, despotic government of South Vietnam. The CIA was also engaged to scuttle any possibility of a free vote, thus setting the stage for the Vietnam War.
Bob
Bob
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I knew I could count on you Bob !!! Perfect !
Also, Doom, how in the world did you find that ?? !! That is some serious digging research !! I know whats on my reading list for this evening... pg 59 thru....
Appreciate the help guys !
Jere
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EXCELLENT, Bob!
Can't quite make out the overprint on that brown 2 N.P. in your image. Is it the same as on Jere's 75 N.P.?
I've frequently considered starting a 'allied nations' collection around the Vietnam War (troops committed):
South Korea (332,000)
Australia (61,000)
Philippines (tens of thousands)
New Zealand (3800)
Thailand
Taiwan
Canada
This is to NOT ignore the significant contributions of the Montagnards!
India, in the mid-1960s (when things heated up), seems to have had more of a diplomatic role (through Nehru)...which was largely ignored or discounted by the Executive Branch. Waffling by the North also negated India's diplomatic initiatives then - to stop the bombing - the hawks in the North may have been unwilling to slow the pace of reunification in exchange for cessation of bombing.
-Paul
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@Pigdoc: The overprint on the 2 N.P. stamp is the same as the one on Jere's 75 N.P. stamps.
Canada did not engage in combat in Vietnam during the First Indochina War or the Vietnam War, but only provided troops for the ICSC and later, after during the last couple of years of the Vietnam War, for the International Commission of Control and Supervision (the ICCS) — I know, it's confusing! Here's what Wikipedia says about the ICCS:
"The International Commission of Control and Supervision (ICCS) was created during the Vietnam War to replace the International Control Commission (formally called the International Commission for Supervision and Control in Vietnam (ICSC)) following the signing of the Paris Peace Accords ("Paris Agreement on Ending the War and Restoring Peace in Vietnam") on 27 January 1973."
About 10,000 Canadians did volunteer to serve in the American forces during the Vietnam War, but probably regretted it. The American government never recognized their service or compensated them for wounds. Records of their service have long since been destroyed. At the time of the ICCS and then the ICSC, Canada had a great reputation for supplying peacekeeping troops wherever they were needed. A former president of my stamp club, Lieutenant-Colonel William J. Bailey, served on the ICSC in Vietnam, although it has to be said that Canada's involvement came to be shrouded in some nasty politics, which included spying on behalf of the Americans. In addition, Canada can hardly hold its head up high: it gladly supplied aluminum for B-52 bombers and uranium for America's stockpile of nuclear bombs. (Nuclear bombs weren't, of course, used in the Vietnam War, but near the end of the First Vietnam War, when French troops were getting walloped at Dien Bien Phu, the Eisenhower administration seriously discussed using the bomb on North Vietnamese troops.
The consensus of historians seems to be that the ICSC and the ICCS were hopelessly ineffective in implementing both the Geneva Accords and the Paris Peace Accords.
A great deal of philatelic mail was generated by a couple of Canadian soldiers. The most prolific was Major R.K. Malott, who created what must have been thousands of philatelic covers along the lines of this one:
Maj. Mallot's philatelic mail is very common, and rarely expensive. Its most useful attribute is that it is unequivocal evidence of Canadian involvement in both the the Vietnam War. He normally used Canadian stamps on his covers, but I have some with South Vietnamese stamps as well as some free-franked covers.
Two Canadian doctors, George A. Vanderburgh and J.R. Waldron, were similarly involved in creating philatelic covers. Waldron served in the Canadian delegation for both the ICSC and the ICCS. He posted this cover from Hanoi, where he was involved in the release of American prisoners of war.
America's military allies in Vietnam are not well represented by postal history items. I have a few Australian covers, and one from a New Zealand soldier.
Bob
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i am a bit young to have been able to "live the history" but in the little study I have done this entire area has some seriously messed up and shady political maneuvering. Thanks so much for the insight into my little overprint.
J
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11:39:38pm
Hi,
Have identified this as India offices in Vietnam Scott #10 issued in 1962. However, I can not find any historical information on location, what the Indians were doing in Vietnam, length of use.. ect.. ect... ect... Even did a search at APRL and got back all of zero hits ! Any guidance would be appreciated. THANKS in advance !
Jere
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this post
re: Help ! I can't find historical info !! :-(
The overprint, I believe, was applied for use of British Indian troops who had been sent to Vietnam following the Geneva accords that established the countries of South Vietnam and North Vietnam, following the defeat of the French military at Dien Bien Phu in 1954. I will check tomorrow to make sure. The following is from Wikipedia:
"The International Control Commission (ICC) was an international force established in 1954. It oversaw the implementation of the Geneva Accords that ended the First Indochina War with the Partition of Vietnam. It reported on the progress of the ceasefires and any violations. The force had troops and officers from Canada, Poland, and India (later replaced with Iran), respectively representing the non-communist, communist, and non-aligned blocs."
Bob
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re: Help ! I can't find historical info !! :-(
Here's a master's thesis on the ICC-Indochina (Indian policy begins p.59):
https://open.library.ubc.ca/cIRcle/collections/ubctheses/831/items/1.0093453
2 Members
like this post.
Login to Like.
re: Help ! I can't find historical info !! :-(
Several India stamps were overprinted for the use of the ICCS. Here are a couple of ICCS covers from my collection; the second one has an enclosure, also pictured:
The enclosure in the second cover appears to be an invitation to a open house hosted by the Canadian ICCS delegation.
The main purpose of the ICCS was to facilitate the end of French colonialism in Indochina and assist in bringing about the reunification of Vietnam. The Geneva convention called for a free vote of the Vietnamese people to reunify North and South Vietnam or to keep them as separate countries. There is little doubt that a free vote would have resulted in reunification, but the United States opposed reunification because of the communist government of North Vietnam. Subsequently, the CIA orchestrated a "humanitarian" exodus of Vietnamese Catholics from North Vietnam to South Vietnam, where the Catholics could more easily support the Catholic, despotic government of South Vietnam. The CIA was also engaged to scuttle any possibility of a free vote, thus setting the stage for the Vietnam War.
Bob
Bob
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03:22:20pm
re: Help ! I can't find historical info !! :-(
I knew I could count on you Bob !!! Perfect !
Also, Doom, how in the world did you find that ?? !! That is some serious digging research !! I know whats on my reading list for this evening... pg 59 thru....
Appreciate the help guys !
Jere
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this post
03:46:51pm
re: Help ! I can't find historical info !! :-(
EXCELLENT, Bob!
Can't quite make out the overprint on that brown 2 N.P. in your image. Is it the same as on Jere's 75 N.P.?
I've frequently considered starting a 'allied nations' collection around the Vietnam War (troops committed):
South Korea (332,000)
Australia (61,000)
Philippines (tens of thousands)
New Zealand (3800)
Thailand
Taiwan
Canada
This is to NOT ignore the significant contributions of the Montagnards!
India, in the mid-1960s (when things heated up), seems to have had more of a diplomatic role (through Nehru)...which was largely ignored or discounted by the Executive Branch. Waffling by the North also negated India's diplomatic initiatives then - to stop the bombing - the hawks in the North may have been unwilling to slow the pace of reunification in exchange for cessation of bombing.
-Paul
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this post
re: Help ! I can't find historical info !! :-(
@Pigdoc: The overprint on the 2 N.P. stamp is the same as the one on Jere's 75 N.P. stamps.
Canada did not engage in combat in Vietnam during the First Indochina War or the Vietnam War, but only provided troops for the ICSC and later, after during the last couple of years of the Vietnam War, for the International Commission of Control and Supervision (the ICCS) — I know, it's confusing! Here's what Wikipedia says about the ICCS:
"The International Commission of Control and Supervision (ICCS) was created during the Vietnam War to replace the International Control Commission (formally called the International Commission for Supervision and Control in Vietnam (ICSC)) following the signing of the Paris Peace Accords ("Paris Agreement on Ending the War and Restoring Peace in Vietnam") on 27 January 1973."
About 10,000 Canadians did volunteer to serve in the American forces during the Vietnam War, but probably regretted it. The American government never recognized their service or compensated them for wounds. Records of their service have long since been destroyed. At the time of the ICCS and then the ICSC, Canada had a great reputation for supplying peacekeeping troops wherever they were needed. A former president of my stamp club, Lieutenant-Colonel William J. Bailey, served on the ICSC in Vietnam, although it has to be said that Canada's involvement came to be shrouded in some nasty politics, which included spying on behalf of the Americans. In addition, Canada can hardly hold its head up high: it gladly supplied aluminum for B-52 bombers and uranium for America's stockpile of nuclear bombs. (Nuclear bombs weren't, of course, used in the Vietnam War, but near the end of the First Vietnam War, when French troops were getting walloped at Dien Bien Phu, the Eisenhower administration seriously discussed using the bomb on North Vietnamese troops.
The consensus of historians seems to be that the ICSC and the ICCS were hopelessly ineffective in implementing both the Geneva Accords and the Paris Peace Accords.
A great deal of philatelic mail was generated by a couple of Canadian soldiers. The most prolific was Major R.K. Malott, who created what must have been thousands of philatelic covers along the lines of this one:
Maj. Mallot's philatelic mail is very common, and rarely expensive. Its most useful attribute is that it is unequivocal evidence of Canadian involvement in both the the Vietnam War. He normally used Canadian stamps on his covers, but I have some with South Vietnamese stamps as well as some free-franked covers.
Two Canadian doctors, George A. Vanderburgh and J.R. Waldron, were similarly involved in creating philatelic covers. Waldron served in the Canadian delegation for both the ICSC and the ICCS. He posted this cover from Hanoi, where he was involved in the release of American prisoners of war.
America's military allies in Vietnam are not well represented by postal history items. I have a few Australian covers, and one from a New Zealand soldier.
Bob
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12:53:40pm
re: Help ! I can't find historical info !! :-(
i am a bit young to have been able to "live the history" but in the little study I have done this entire area has some seriously messed up and shady political maneuvering. Thanks so much for the insight into my little overprint.
J
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