Discussion - Member to Member Sales - Research Center
Discussion - Member to Member Sales - Research Center
I'm thinking that it would be worthwhile if we could post clear images of our "problem" stamps, hopefully with images of the real thing. I know that I would appreciate learning how to differentiate between real and "unreal" stamps. I'll start with this Jamaica stamp, the original and an official reprint:
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Hi Everyone;
I thank you Bob for this idea.
Not only do you have very sharp and clear scans, but the text that explains how to identify the two versions, is part of the bitmap file. So when I copy-and-paste this graphic image to a CorelDraw page it will automatically have everything that I need to distinguish these two different versions.
May the Force be with you...young Jedi!
Still just sortin'....
TuskenRaider
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Yes, thanks Bob, for starting this topic.
One of my collecting interests is Danish colonies, and the private packet post between La Guaira, Puerto Cabello, and St Thomas must be included. Founded by Robert Todd in 1863. Letter post stamps were issued 1864-1870 and used on this packet. All three series of these stamps were heavily forged by Spiro and others. So to collect this area, one needs to be well-versed in sussing them out!
Below is the first stamp issued in this series:
Left is genuine, Right is a Spiro forgery. There are many distinguishing features that give away the forgery. A couple in particular are the general shading of the smoke, sky, and sea around the ship. Another is the shape of the last S in SAN TOMAS. In the forged stamp the uppermost part has a concave dent right next to the serif. And the bogus cancel on the forgery is very characteristic. It is never seen on genuine stamps.
I have several more forgeries to share from this packet post, so stay tuned!
My primary reference is The Private Ship Letter Stamps of the World, Part 1, The Caribbean by Ringstrom and Tester.
-Paul
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Time to revive this thread!
Here are some examples of genuine and forged stamps of the Centavo series in this private packet postage issue:
Top one is genuine, from the first (1864) centavo issue, bottom two are forged copies, both Type I. There are six different forgery types described for this issue.
Here is another from the same (1864) issue:
Again, top stamp is genuine, bottom two are forgeries. Forgery on the L is a Type IV also with a faked cancellation. The one on the R is a Type I forgery.
My primary reference is The Private Ship Letter Stamps of the World, Part 1, The Caribbean by Ringstrom and Tester. The author describes the forgeries of this issue, "...none are particularly dangerous." Hallmarks of genuine stamps are the shape of the horizontal part of the "L" in "LA GUAIRA" and extension of the shading lines across the right hand outer frame lines.
In the marketplace, the prevalence of forged stamps is similar to that of genuine stamps. It is as interesting to collect all the different forged types as it is to collect genuine stamps!
Who's next?
-Paul
-Paul
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I posted this image in another thread quite a while ago, but some newer members might enjoy seeing this. It is Scott #59 and SG #81a.
I had purchased a Gambia collection containing this stamp. It wasn't identified in the sale and I didn't know anything about this variety because Scott doesn't list it. When I later purchased a Stanley Gibbons catalogue and learned about this variety, I went back and looked for any stamps I might have with the "dent." I was very happy to discover I had this one!
Tom
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These stamps are Scott Azores #112 violet color. I don't any have information regarding minor color varieties, but I believe the first copy is the normal color and the second copy is what I am calling dark violet.
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The Queen Victoria set of stamps for Somaliland Protectorate are overprinted India stamps. Stanley Gibbons identifies two types of overprints. Type A has the "B" of BRITISH positioned directly over the "M" of SOMALILAND. Type B has the "B" of BRITISH positioned over the "OM" of SOMALILAND. In some cases, the "B" is not clearly in either position, but somewhere between. There are other undocumented (as far as I know) variations in the sizes and vertical positioning of the overprint letters.
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I am far from being an expert on the Portuguese colonies and this info may be of little help. This information about the Portugal colonial reprints is from a J. Barefoot booklet (from the 1960s?).
The originals will have "medium, toned" paper, perfed 12½ or 13½, with cream gum.
The 1885 reprints are on stout, very white paper. Perf 13½ medium holes (sometimes poorly cut) or perf 12½. Without gum or white gum.
The 1905 reprints have creamy, ordinary paper. Perf 13½ with large holes and sharp teeth. Shiny white gum.
Macau original crown types specifically: Originals perf 12½ and 13½; all 1885 and 1905 reprints are 13½.
I'll try to find some time to look through the International Society for Portuguese Philately journals I have here. I know some address the forgeries, but don't remember if they address the reprints or not. This is something I'll need to look into someday anyway.
Tom
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Hi Tom,
Thanks for bringing up this Barefoot booklet.
I'd forgotten I had one! 
I see my one is dated 1983.
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04:54:49pm
The Jamaica stamps posted in the original listing is not a reprint. The stamp was redesigned because they showed the Union Jack incorrectly. It is wrong on the original printing which was on paper watermarked Multiple Crown CA. It was corrected for the printings on paper watermarked Multiple Script CA. You can find the details in the Stanley Gibbons catalogue.
If you are interested in British Colony flaws, I have a web site showing over 200 print flaws. Use this URL if you are interested in seeing them.
http://www.kgvistamps.com/kgvistamps/flaws.aspx
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Hi, Nigel!
nigelc wrote:
"Thanks for bringing up this Barefoot booklet. "
You're welcome. I was a member of the ISPP for a few years and obtained my copy back then. My copy has a yellow cover and only 16 pages. It has no publication date that I can find.
It has been helpful in identifying some of my Portuguese colonies stamps as I prepare them for sale, but I'm generally working backwards from the more recent issues and have not yet tackled the crown issue. It's difficult to find the time and then a slow process once I've found the time!
Tom
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Reviving this rich thread.
Recently, I've become a collector of the early Caribbean colonial issues. A seller was offering a wide selection of stamps of St Vincent (a British colony), and I managed to score a few lots yesterday, after doing some cursory catalog research.
The stamps of St Vincent of 1861 through 1879 (Scott numbers 1 through 23) are interesting, because they're all the same design. 13-23 are watermarked, 1-12 are not. Within these two series, the stamps are distinguished by perforations. There were 4 denominations/colors: 1p, 4p, 6p, and 1sh. The 4p and 6p are distinguishably by color variations, but the 1p and 1sh slate offer some opportunities to those who would forge the perforations. Margins on these stamps are typically very tight, which would seem to add to the perf-forger's opportunity. He can reperf and impinge on the stamp's design and it still looks typical for the issue.
Specifically, if a forger took a used 1p stamp perfed 14-16 (Scott 2) and reperf it to be 11-13 by 14-16 (Scott 11), he would increase its perceived value 100-fold. Similarly, if he took a used 1sh slate perfed 14-16 (Scott 4) and reperfed it to be 11-13 by 14-16 (Scott 8A) he would increase its perceived value 15-fold.
So, did that happen?
Here's an image from yesterday's auction of a Scott #2, which I scored:
perfed 14-16 (rough perfs) Nice margins for the issue! Fodder that escaped the perf fakers!
Now, here's a stamp that was offered as Scott 11:
perfed 14-16 on the sides, 11-13 on the top and bottom. Only check out those perfs at top and bottom. Real or faked? I shied from bidding on this item, because I thought they looked fake. Along the bottom, I see that the perfs that hit the "O" of ONE and the "P" of PENNY are out of line vertically with the rest - they're too high. And, the two perfs at the bottom right and the two below the "E" of ONE and the "P" of PENNY are spaced much wider apart than the rest. Along the top edge of the stamp, the two perfs on either side of the "V" are spaced much wider apart than the rest.
Here's one more lot, sold as a Scott 11:
Perfs along bottom edge are difficult to evaluate. Along the top edge, the two perfs over the "CE" of VINCENT are definitely wonky. Real or fake? I shied away from bidding on this one also.
These two suspected fakes sold for around $80 each.
Such reperfs seem to be a class of difficult-to-detect fakes.
Whaddaya think?
-Paul
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Interested in counterfeits against the GDR?
Then look here:
https://stamporama.com/discboard/disc_main.php?action=20&id=25426#179981
Interested in counterfeits during WWII?
Then look here:
https://stamporama.com/discboard/disc_main.php?action=20&id=24514#179183
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Here's a suggestion: How about a thread about varieties, forgeries, and reprints that we have in collections? I recently discovered, through a web page, that several postwar Japanese stamps I have are all forgeries. Fortunately, even the original stamps aren't worth much (apparently the printing plates were sold to a Hungarian company, which proceeded to flood the philatelic market with "unofficial" reprints).
I'm thinking that it would be worthwhile if we could post clear images of our "problem" stamps, hopefully with images of the real thing. I know that I would appreciate learning how to differentiate between real and "unreal" stamps. I'll start with this Jamaica stamp, the original and an official reprint:
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re: Forgeries/varieties/reprints
Hi Everyone;
I thank you Bob for this idea.
Not only do you have very sharp and clear scans, but the text that explains how to identify the two versions, is part of the bitmap file. So when I copy-and-paste this graphic image to a CorelDraw page it will automatically have everything that I need to distinguish these two different versions.
May the Force be with you...young Jedi!
Still just sortin'....
TuskenRaider
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04:56:25pm
re: Forgeries/varieties/reprints
Yes, thanks Bob, for starting this topic.
One of my collecting interests is Danish colonies, and the private packet post between La Guaira, Puerto Cabello, and St Thomas must be included. Founded by Robert Todd in 1863. Letter post stamps were issued 1864-1870 and used on this packet. All three series of these stamps were heavily forged by Spiro and others. So to collect this area, one needs to be well-versed in sussing them out!
Below is the first stamp issued in this series:
Left is genuine, Right is a Spiro forgery. There are many distinguishing features that give away the forgery. A couple in particular are the general shading of the smoke, sky, and sea around the ship. Another is the shape of the last S in SAN TOMAS. In the forged stamp the uppermost part has a concave dent right next to the serif. And the bogus cancel on the forgery is very characteristic. It is never seen on genuine stamps.
I have several more forgeries to share from this packet post, so stay tuned!
My primary reference is The Private Ship Letter Stamps of the World, Part 1, The Caribbean by Ringstrom and Tester.
-Paul
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11:59:30am
re: Forgeries/varieties/reprints
Time to revive this thread!
Here are some examples of genuine and forged stamps of the Centavo series in this private packet postage issue:
Top one is genuine, from the first (1864) centavo issue, bottom two are forged copies, both Type I. There are six different forgery types described for this issue.
Here is another from the same (1864) issue:
Again, top stamp is genuine, bottom two are forgeries. Forgery on the L is a Type IV also with a faked cancellation. The one on the R is a Type I forgery.
My primary reference is The Private Ship Letter Stamps of the World, Part 1, The Caribbean by Ringstrom and Tester. The author describes the forgeries of this issue, "...none are particularly dangerous." Hallmarks of genuine stamps are the shape of the horizontal part of the "L" in "LA GUAIRA" and extension of the shading lines across the right hand outer frame lines.
In the marketplace, the prevalence of forged stamps is similar to that of genuine stamps. It is as interesting to collect all the different forged types as it is to collect genuine stamps!
Who's next?
-Paul
-Paul
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re: Forgeries/varieties/reprints
I posted this image in another thread quite a while ago, but some newer members might enjoy seeing this. It is Scott #59 and SG #81a.
I had purchased a Gambia collection containing this stamp. It wasn't identified in the sale and I didn't know anything about this variety because Scott doesn't list it. When I later purchased a Stanley Gibbons catalogue and learned about this variety, I went back and looked for any stamps I might have with the "dent." I was very happy to discover I had this one!
Tom
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re: Forgeries/varieties/reprints
These stamps are Scott Azores #112 violet color. I don't any have information regarding minor color varieties, but I believe the first copy is the normal color and the second copy is what I am calling dark violet.
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re: Forgeries/varieties/reprints
The Queen Victoria set of stamps for Somaliland Protectorate are overprinted India stamps. Stanley Gibbons identifies two types of overprints. Type A has the "B" of BRITISH positioned directly over the "M" of SOMALILAND. Type B has the "B" of BRITISH positioned over the "OM" of SOMALILAND. In some cases, the "B" is not clearly in either position, but somewhere between. There are other undocumented (as far as I know) variations in the sizes and vertical positioning of the overprint letters.
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re: Forgeries/varieties/reprints
I am far from being an expert on the Portuguese colonies and this info may be of little help. This information about the Portugal colonial reprints is from a J. Barefoot booklet (from the 1960s?).
The originals will have "medium, toned" paper, perfed 12½ or 13½, with cream gum.
The 1885 reprints are on stout, very white paper. Perf 13½ medium holes (sometimes poorly cut) or perf 12½. Without gum or white gum.
The 1905 reprints have creamy, ordinary paper. Perf 13½ with large holes and sharp teeth. Shiny white gum.
Macau original crown types specifically: Originals perf 12½ and 13½; all 1885 and 1905 reprints are 13½.
I'll try to find some time to look through the International Society for Portuguese Philately journals I have here. I know some address the forgeries, but don't remember if they address the reprints or not. This is something I'll need to look into someday anyway.
Tom
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re: Forgeries/varieties/reprints
Hi Tom,
Thanks for bringing up this Barefoot booklet.
I'd forgotten I had one!
I see my one is dated 1983.
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Collecting King George VI from all countries, and King Edward VII and King George V from the West Indies.
18 Jan 2019
04:54:49pm
re: Forgeries/varieties/reprints
The Jamaica stamps posted in the original listing is not a reprint. The stamp was redesigned because they showed the Union Jack incorrectly. It is wrong on the original printing which was on paper watermarked Multiple Crown CA. It was corrected for the printings on paper watermarked Multiple Script CA. You can find the details in the Stanley Gibbons catalogue.
If you are interested in British Colony flaws, I have a web site showing over 200 print flaws. Use this URL if you are interested in seeing them.
http://www.kgvistamps.com/kgvistamps/flaws.aspx
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re: Forgeries/varieties/reprints
Hi, Nigel!
nigelc wrote:
"Thanks for bringing up this Barefoot booklet. "
You're welcome. I was a member of the ISPP for a few years and obtained my copy back then. My copy has a yellow cover and only 16 pages. It has no publication date that I can find.
It has been helpful in identifying some of my Portuguese colonies stamps as I prepare them for sale, but I'm generally working backwards from the more recent issues and have not yet tackled the crown issue. It's difficult to find the time and then a slow process once I've found the time!
Tom
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05:28:27pm
re: Forgeries/varieties/reprints
Reviving this rich thread.
Recently, I've become a collector of the early Caribbean colonial issues. A seller was offering a wide selection of stamps of St Vincent (a British colony), and I managed to score a few lots yesterday, after doing some cursory catalog research.
The stamps of St Vincent of 1861 through 1879 (Scott numbers 1 through 23) are interesting, because they're all the same design. 13-23 are watermarked, 1-12 are not. Within these two series, the stamps are distinguished by perforations. There were 4 denominations/colors: 1p, 4p, 6p, and 1sh. The 4p and 6p are distinguishably by color variations, but the 1p and 1sh slate offer some opportunities to those who would forge the perforations. Margins on these stamps are typically very tight, which would seem to add to the perf-forger's opportunity. He can reperf and impinge on the stamp's design and it still looks typical for the issue.
Specifically, if a forger took a used 1p stamp perfed 14-16 (Scott 2) and reperf it to be 11-13 by 14-16 (Scott 11), he would increase its perceived value 100-fold. Similarly, if he took a used 1sh slate perfed 14-16 (Scott 4) and reperfed it to be 11-13 by 14-16 (Scott 8A) he would increase its perceived value 15-fold.
So, did that happen?
Here's an image from yesterday's auction of a Scott #2, which I scored:
perfed 14-16 (rough perfs) Nice margins for the issue! Fodder that escaped the perf fakers!
Now, here's a stamp that was offered as Scott 11:
perfed 14-16 on the sides, 11-13 on the top and bottom. Only check out those perfs at top and bottom. Real or faked? I shied from bidding on this item, because I thought they looked fake. Along the bottom, I see that the perfs that hit the "O" of ONE and the "P" of PENNY are out of line vertically with the rest - they're too high. And, the two perfs at the bottom right and the two below the "E" of ONE and the "P" of PENNY are spaced much wider apart than the rest. Along the top edge of the stamp, the two perfs on either side of the "V" are spaced much wider apart than the rest.
Here's one more lot, sold as a Scott 11:
Perfs along bottom edge are difficult to evaluate. Along the top edge, the two perfs over the "CE" of VINCENT are definitely wonky. Real or fake? I shied away from bidding on this one also.
These two suspected fakes sold for around $80 each.
Such reperfs seem to be a class of difficult-to-detect fakes.
Whaddaya think?
-Paul
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re: Forgeries/varieties/reprints
Interested in counterfeits against the GDR?
Then look here:
https://stamporama.com/discboard/disc_main.php?action=20&id=25426#179981
Interested in counterfeits during WWII?
Then look here:
https://stamporama.com/discboard/disc_main.php?action=20&id=24514#179183
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