Discussion - Member to Member Sales - Research Center
Discussion - Member to Member Sales - Research Center
Rich
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As the buyer didn't receive the item, they can claim a full refund. You, in turn, need to claim on Canada Post under the registration, as they didn't get the item to the recipient.
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Hi Dave I have made a claim to Canada Post however there position is they will not insure a registered letter for more than $50.00c the item was sold for 114 pounds. Is there another approach which could be taken with CP.
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Rich:- What is the actual time frame as Royal Mail says to allow thirty WORKING days for delivery before making a claim. I assume Canada Post will be the same.
Did the package have a customs form stating what it was, the weight and the value of the goods? (If not it could have been delayed by customs.)
You say the buyer has made a claim. Is the claim through paypal or ebay? Did the Buyer order and pay for the goods immediately? (If they take a few days to pay its a warning sign) Was the address a PO Box Number? (Royal Mail will not accept any signed for service or the responsibility for items sent to a PO Box No)( In the UK it is mostly businesses that use PO Box Nos. If it is an individual with a PO Box No, again a warning sign)
When you are making a claim with Royal Mail they ask you for proof of the cost of the item to you not the selling price to the buyer.
Unfortunately this is an example that shows one must always be careful what postal service you use and that you use the right one for the value of the goods you are posting to ensure you can get the correct level of compensation. NOT what is the cheapest to the sender. AND making sure the Buyer pays you for the correct service.
I must admit that a couple of times I have failed to send the items because of the actions/attitudes of buyers. It is far better to hold onto the goods and refund their money at a later date.
I have NEVER EVER needed to do that to ANY Stamporama Member.
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HI Neddie This is the sad story the item was paid for on March 18th and ship on the 19th by CP registered mail which can only be insured up to $60.00 the item sold for 114 pounds
After many hours trying to track it down I finally started a claim with CP and weeks later was told it was lost after it reached the UK. I guess the lesson here is if stolen lost or whatever I have to refund the buyer. I would like to know if one can go after Royal Mail as well.
Rich
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Hi Rich.
Unfortunately your "contract" is with Canada Post so the short answer is you can't seek compensation from Royal Mail.
That doesn't mean you cannot contact them seeking an explanation through Royal Mail.com, it could be that Canada Post did not investigate properly.
We sellers are always at risk when selling through the likes of ebay or using paypal. We have had to learn to take the rough with the smooth through bitter experience. Everything is loaded for the buyer in these systems.
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My guess is that it may still be in customs. Registered mail is usually used to mail things of some value and are therefore usually subject to processing through customs when arriving in a foreign country (or incoming registered mail to the United States.)
That would be the reason for asking if you placed a customs form on the envelope. If you did it is (at least on mail coming into the United States)a rather simple process to open the envelope and inspect it for items which may be dutiable (this process does involve postal personal to keep the chain of possession intact). I would imagine the UK system would be similar.
If there was no customs form the process becomes a bit more complex and subject to extensive delays because depending on the perceived value of the item it may require sending the item for more extensive research to establish value than can be performed in the local customs office.
Just some thoughts - many forums both philatelic and non-philatelic have commented on the rather lengthy delays now being experienced through customs in certain countries, or for wpecific classes of goods.
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Without a customs form, an item may be confiscated as contraband for not being declared.
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A number of registered items sent to me here in Canada have never arrived over the last year or so.
In all cases I have been able to track the item on the originating country post office website until it reaches Canada. After which it disappears into a black hole never to be seen again - actually that is not completely true this year I have had 3 items arrive 2 to 3 months after being accepted by Canada Post. Who knows what they did with the items in the interim.
With proof of the items having arrived in Canada I was never comfortable filing a dispute with eBay or PayPal, as I felt that the seller had fulfilled their obligation.
"You can check UPU documents to be sure, but virtually no country including the UK provides tracking of foreign registered letters. There is no mechanism to enter the registered letter number of the Canada Post mailpiece and then track it within the UK. "
I am not sure if that is accurate, I know for a fact that even thought I have not been able to track incoming foreign registered mail in Canada, I have been able to track registered items sent to South Africa from Canada on the South African Post office web site (when it is up) using the Canadian Post tracking number (the last 2 letters indicate the originating country). I very much doubt that South Africa is the only country to do so.
Clive
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Thanks good people certainly I am not alone with this problem and as stated the seller looses every time with e-bay and Pay pal, I will see if the buyer is willing to contact UK customs directly
Rich
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What I have done in the past is that whenever someone makes a claim against me through ebay, I contact ebay and ask "How many times has this buyer claimed non delivery?".
Ebay never respond directly to me with an answer but sometimes the claim is dropped by the buyer. Coincidence? I think not.
I am always apprehensive in sending over £20 worth abroad. I sometimes split the order, where possible, into two or three envelopes, hoping that they don't all go "missing".
I seldom use "International Signed For" and I try to avoid packages that require customs forms.
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In all my years of selling, I've only had two claims for non-delivery, both of which subsequently arrived at their destination and the claims were dropped. The highest value stamp I've sent overseas registered was AUD$1,400. Fortunately, most of my high-ticket items have gone to regular and trusted customers.
A few handy hints that have held me in good stead:
1. If you MUST complete a customs form (and I never do unless I'm sending a box) don't write "philatelic material" or "stamps" on it. Instead, use "old paper" "paper samples" or "old documents". Still true if push comes to shove, but not as attractive to light-fingered postal staff.
2. "Please do not bend" is a clear indication that something inside the envelope is delicate and worth preserving. Don't write it, package the item properly instead!
3. If you have a business name (as I do), unless you have relevant loss insurance, don't use your business name in your return address. Which of "Global Philately" or "Dave Sheridan" is more likely to suggest that the envelope may be worth stealing?
4. This probably shouldn't need to be said, but for heaven's sake use envelopes that you can't see through. If they are translucent enough to see into, use a piece of A4 or letter size paper as additional packaging. I receive many articles that contain nothing but a stamp on a 102 card.
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It's just not that great of an idea for sending expensive stamp overseas.
There are added risks when you do. Insurance adds cost and it often does not cover the value of the item. that is if you can get it at all. It seems to me that it is all on the Canadian Post. Was there additional cost for the insurance and did you pay for it? If not
they would not pay you anything. Has the RM told you that it was received by them from Canada. If they have no tracking then all you can do is stall as long as possible and it seems you have already. I would certainly not doubt that the buyer has scammed you and you'll have to pay up soon. I sold around 3,000 stamps on Ebay and only had maybe 7 times a buyer claim not received. I am quite sure at least half of them did. It's not a high percentage of sales so I would not stop selling but have to caution selling expensive items to our friends in other parts of the world. The thing that finally stopped me from selling on Ebay was the shipping. Just to many hoops to jump through in case an order doesn't make it to the buyer. Dealing with it is hardly ever worth the value of the item but you'll usually have pay for it anyway
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11:25:04am
Recently sent a stamp within a registered letter to the UK which was lost the buyer paid with Pay Pal and has now started a claim. Canada Post has confirmed that the item arrived in the UK but is now lost.Can the buyer seek a complete refund from me? anyone with a similar experience
Rich
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re: Lost in the post
As the buyer didn't receive the item, they can claim a full refund. You, in turn, need to claim on Canada Post under the registration, as they didn't get the item to the recipient.
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01:50:52pm
re: Lost in the post
Hi Dave I have made a claim to Canada Post however there position is they will not insure a registered letter for more than $50.00c the item was sold for 114 pounds. Is there another approach which could be taken with CP.
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06:56:07pm
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re: Lost in the post
Rich:- What is the actual time frame as Royal Mail says to allow thirty WORKING days for delivery before making a claim. I assume Canada Post will be the same.
Did the package have a customs form stating what it was, the weight and the value of the goods? (If not it could have been delayed by customs.)
You say the buyer has made a claim. Is the claim through paypal or ebay? Did the Buyer order and pay for the goods immediately? (If they take a few days to pay its a warning sign) Was the address a PO Box Number? (Royal Mail will not accept any signed for service or the responsibility for items sent to a PO Box No)( In the UK it is mostly businesses that use PO Box Nos. If it is an individual with a PO Box No, again a warning sign)
When you are making a claim with Royal Mail they ask you for proof of the cost of the item to you not the selling price to the buyer.
Unfortunately this is an example that shows one must always be careful what postal service you use and that you use the right one for the value of the goods you are posting to ensure you can get the correct level of compensation. NOT what is the cheapest to the sender. AND making sure the Buyer pays you for the correct service.
I must admit that a couple of times I have failed to send the items because of the actions/attitudes of buyers. It is far better to hold onto the goods and refund their money at a later date.
I have NEVER EVER needed to do that to ANY Stamporama Member.
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07:18:15pm
re: Lost in the post
HI Neddie This is the sad story the item was paid for on March 18th and ship on the 19th by CP registered mail which can only be insured up to $60.00 the item sold for 114 pounds
After many hours trying to track it down I finally started a claim with CP and weeks later was told it was lost after it reached the UK. I guess the lesson here is if stolen lost or whatever I have to refund the buyer. I would like to know if one can go after Royal Mail as well.
Rich
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08:10:45pm
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re: Lost in the post
Hi Rich.
Unfortunately your "contract" is with Canada Post so the short answer is you can't seek compensation from Royal Mail.
That doesn't mean you cannot contact them seeking an explanation through Royal Mail.com, it could be that Canada Post did not investigate properly.
We sellers are always at risk when selling through the likes of ebay or using paypal. We have had to learn to take the rough with the smooth through bitter experience. Everything is loaded for the buyer in these systems.
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08:43:07pm
re: Lost in the post
My guess is that it may still be in customs. Registered mail is usually used to mail things of some value and are therefore usually subject to processing through customs when arriving in a foreign country (or incoming registered mail to the United States.)
That would be the reason for asking if you placed a customs form on the envelope. If you did it is (at least on mail coming into the United States)a rather simple process to open the envelope and inspect it for items which may be dutiable (this process does involve postal personal to keep the chain of possession intact). I would imagine the UK system would be similar.
If there was no customs form the process becomes a bit more complex and subject to extensive delays because depending on the perceived value of the item it may require sending the item for more extensive research to establish value than can be performed in the local customs office.
Just some thoughts - many forums both philatelic and non-philatelic have commented on the rather lengthy delays now being experienced through customs in certain countries, or for wpecific classes of goods.
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11:31:25pm
re: Lost in the post
Without a customs form, an item may be confiscated as contraband for not being declared.
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re: Lost in the post
A number of registered items sent to me here in Canada have never arrived over the last year or so.
In all cases I have been able to track the item on the originating country post office website until it reaches Canada. After which it disappears into a black hole never to be seen again - actually that is not completely true this year I have had 3 items arrive 2 to 3 months after being accepted by Canada Post. Who knows what they did with the items in the interim.
With proof of the items having arrived in Canada I was never comfortable filing a dispute with eBay or PayPal, as I felt that the seller had fulfilled their obligation.
"You can check UPU documents to be sure, but virtually no country including the UK provides tracking of foreign registered letters. There is no mechanism to enter the registered letter number of the Canada Post mailpiece and then track it within the UK. "
I am not sure if that is accurate, I know for a fact that even thought I have not been able to track incoming foreign registered mail in Canada, I have been able to track registered items sent to South Africa from Canada on the South African Post office web site (when it is up) using the Canadian Post tracking number (the last 2 letters indicate the originating country). I very much doubt that South Africa is the only country to do so.
Clive
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06:00:32pm
re: Lost in the post
Thanks good people certainly I am not alone with this problem and as stated the seller looses every time with e-bay and Pay pal, I will see if the buyer is willing to contact UK customs directly
Rich
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06:30:55pm
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re: Lost in the post
What I have done in the past is that whenever someone makes a claim against me through ebay, I contact ebay and ask "How many times has this buyer claimed non delivery?".
Ebay never respond directly to me with an answer but sometimes the claim is dropped by the buyer. Coincidence? I think not.
I am always apprehensive in sending over £20 worth abroad. I sometimes split the order, where possible, into two or three envelopes, hoping that they don't all go "missing".
I seldom use "International Signed For" and I try to avoid packages that require customs forms.
Login to Like
this post
re: Lost in the post
In all my years of selling, I've only had two claims for non-delivery, both of which subsequently arrived at their destination and the claims were dropped. The highest value stamp I've sent overseas registered was AUD$1,400. Fortunately, most of my high-ticket items have gone to regular and trusted customers.
A few handy hints that have held me in good stead:
1. If you MUST complete a customs form (and I never do unless I'm sending a box) don't write "philatelic material" or "stamps" on it. Instead, use "old paper" "paper samples" or "old documents". Still true if push comes to shove, but not as attractive to light-fingered postal staff.
2. "Please do not bend" is a clear indication that something inside the envelope is delicate and worth preserving. Don't write it, package the item properly instead!
3. If you have a business name (as I do), unless you have relevant loss insurance, don't use your business name in your return address. Which of "Global Philately" or "Dave Sheridan" is more likely to suggest that the envelope may be worth stealing?
4. This probably shouldn't need to be said, but for heaven's sake use envelopes that you can't see through. If they are translucent enough to see into, use a piece of A4 or letter size paper as additional packaging. I receive many articles that contain nothing but a stamp on a 102 card.
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re: Lost in the post
It's just not that great of an idea for sending expensive stamp overseas.
There are added risks when you do. Insurance adds cost and it often does not cover the value of the item. that is if you can get it at all. It seems to me that it is all on the Canadian Post. Was there additional cost for the insurance and did you pay for it? If not
they would not pay you anything. Has the RM told you that it was received by them from Canada. If they have no tracking then all you can do is stall as long as possible and it seems you have already. I would certainly not doubt that the buyer has scammed you and you'll have to pay up soon. I sold around 3,000 stamps on Ebay and only had maybe 7 times a buyer claim not received. I am quite sure at least half of them did. It's not a high percentage of sales so I would not stop selling but have to caution selling expensive items to our friends in other parts of the world. The thing that finally stopped me from selling on Ebay was the shipping. Just to many hoops to jump through in case an order doesn't make it to the buyer. Dealing with it is hardly ever worth the value of the item but you'll usually have pay for it anyway
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