I believe it's a France Scott #47, lithographed printing (dashes on the cheek and neck rather than dots as seen on the typographed #7 and typographed French Colonies #14).
Hi Greg,
I'd like to know too as I've never been clear about identifying these stamps.
The three candidates seem to be:
France Sc. #7 orange on yellowish - Typo
France Sc. #47 orange on yellowish - Litho
French Colonies #14 orange on yellowish - Typo
So, if it's Litho it's France Sc. #47.
However, if it's Typo I suggest it's probably French Colonies Sc. #14 (given the huge different in prices).
I see Michael has already posted.
Could you show us a pair of typo and litho Ceres stamps (not necessarily this value) so we could see the difference more clearly?
https://www.stampcommunity.org/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=32456&SearchTerms=Ceres
Don
Despite the dashes on the cheek and neck, I would lean away from France 47 as the stamp does not display one of the indispensable field marks for the Bordeaux issues. Note how the wheat sheaves protrude at the top of the head; on the Bordeaux issues the wheat sheaves do not prutrude as far. Compare, for example, Scott illustrations A7-A11 against A1, A13, A14.
I tend to lean on a French Colonies.
rrr...
The problem is that if we have determined that the printing method is lithography (lines rather than dots) then it must be a France #7. French Colonies stamps were all printed via typography.
https://stamporama.com/discboard/disc_main.php?action=20&id=8064
For my eyes, the image is not clear/large enough for me to tell the difference.
You have it backwards. #7 is typographed, not lithographed.
The forty centimes imperf Ceres issue is one of the hardest stamps to identify.
The scan is not clear enough to tell if there are dots or just short dashes, so a better scan would be most helpful. From what I see I'm leaning toward France #7
First, I would like to thank AntoniusRa for weighing in. I typically consult his on-line reference collection several times a week to resolve thorny identification questions. I am wondering if problems in identifying Bordeaux issue stamps stem from the field marks that Scott chooses to focus on. Referring to Antonius Ra’s on-line collection and to the link provided by smauggie, it is clear that the above stamp is not France 47; the wheat sheaves protrude at the top of the head; they are close cropped on Bordeaux issue stamps. Assuming that the above stamp is genuine, the choice is between France 7 (1850 or 1862 reimpression) and French Colonies 14, both of which are typographed and, if I am not mistaken, printed from the same plates. I believe the difference comes down to the shade. For France 7, Yvert lists 3 different colors in addition to the 1862 reimpression; Maury, 6. For Fr Colonies 14, Yvert lists orange and saumon. Using Antonius Ra’s collection as a guide, I would lean toward French Colonies 14, but given the range of shades the question remains open. The overarching questions that I always stumble over concern the distinction between the original issues, the 1860s re-impressions and the French Colonies look-likes. (Jim Jackson’s Big Blue entries provide some guidance in recognizing these distinctions.) Using the wheat sheaf field mark (Ruth and Gardner Brown, The Bordeaux Issue of 1870-1871, New York: French and Colonies Philatelic Society, 1981, p. 3-5) it has always seemed relatively easy to recognize the Bordeaux issue.
Here is a 1200dpi scan. Could this possibly be a cut square? I ask as the paper seems stiff, but not knowing much about early France this could be the type of paper it was printed on.
Greg
It looks like the stamp might have been re-backed. Look at the whole top edge, the top right and the bottom left corner. I bet the reverse of the stamp is quite clean and White. I still cannot tell whether it is France $7 or French Colonies #14. Considering the difference in values I would have to lean to ti being the French colonies issue.
froland I'm glad to hear that you find my site helpful. I wish there had been such a place that I could reference in my earlier collecting years. I can only hope that there are many others collectors that can see the value of it with there collecting pursuits.
Hi,
I currently have this listed at auction as a France #47. Originally I had it as a #7 but Roy said it was a #47. With not being an expert on early France I deferred to him. Another collector has now said he thinks it IS a 47 or perhaps French Colonies. So I ask the question - what do you think this is? Thanks
Greg
re: France #7,47 or ??????
I believe it's a France Scott #47, lithographed printing (dashes on the cheek and neck rather than dots as seen on the typographed #7 and typographed French Colonies #14).
re: France #7,47 or ??????
Hi Greg,
I'd like to know too as I've never been clear about identifying these stamps.
The three candidates seem to be:
France Sc. #7 orange on yellowish - Typo
France Sc. #47 orange on yellowish - Litho
French Colonies #14 orange on yellowish - Typo
So, if it's Litho it's France Sc. #47.
However, if it's Typo I suggest it's probably French Colonies Sc. #14 (given the huge different in prices).
re: France #7,47 or ??????
I see Michael has already posted.
Could you show us a pair of typo and litho Ceres stamps (not necessarily this value) so we could see the difference more clearly?
re: France #7,47 or ??????
https://www.stampcommunity.org/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=32456&SearchTerms=Ceres
Don
re: France #7,47 or ??????
Despite the dashes on the cheek and neck, I would lean away from France 47 as the stamp does not display one of the indispensable field marks for the Bordeaux issues. Note how the wheat sheaves protrude at the top of the head; on the Bordeaux issues the wheat sheaves do not prutrude as far. Compare, for example, Scott illustrations A7-A11 against A1, A13, A14.
re: France #7,47 or ??????
I tend to lean on a French Colonies.
rrr...
re: France #7,47 or ??????
The problem is that if we have determined that the printing method is lithography (lines rather than dots) then it must be a France #7. French Colonies stamps were all printed via typography.
https://stamporama.com/discboard/disc_main.php?action=20&id=8064
For my eyes, the image is not clear/large enough for me to tell the difference.
re: France #7,47 or ??????
You have it backwards. #7 is typographed, not lithographed.
re: France #7,47 or ??????
The forty centimes imperf Ceres issue is one of the hardest stamps to identify.
The scan is not clear enough to tell if there are dots or just short dashes, so a better scan would be most helpful. From what I see I'm leaning toward France #7
re: France #7,47 or ??????
First, I would like to thank AntoniusRa for weighing in. I typically consult his on-line reference collection several times a week to resolve thorny identification questions. I am wondering if problems in identifying Bordeaux issue stamps stem from the field marks that Scott chooses to focus on. Referring to Antonius Ra’s on-line collection and to the link provided by smauggie, it is clear that the above stamp is not France 47; the wheat sheaves protrude at the top of the head; they are close cropped on Bordeaux issue stamps. Assuming that the above stamp is genuine, the choice is between France 7 (1850 or 1862 reimpression) and French Colonies 14, both of which are typographed and, if I am not mistaken, printed from the same plates. I believe the difference comes down to the shade. For France 7, Yvert lists 3 different colors in addition to the 1862 reimpression; Maury, 6. For Fr Colonies 14, Yvert lists orange and saumon. Using Antonius Ra’s collection as a guide, I would lean toward French Colonies 14, but given the range of shades the question remains open. The overarching questions that I always stumble over concern the distinction between the original issues, the 1860s re-impressions and the French Colonies look-likes. (Jim Jackson’s Big Blue entries provide some guidance in recognizing these distinctions.) Using the wheat sheaf field mark (Ruth and Gardner Brown, The Bordeaux Issue of 1870-1871, New York: French and Colonies Philatelic Society, 1981, p. 3-5) it has always seemed relatively easy to recognize the Bordeaux issue.
re: France #7,47 or ??????
Here is a 1200dpi scan. Could this possibly be a cut square? I ask as the paper seems stiff, but not knowing much about early France this could be the type of paper it was printed on.
Greg
re: France #7,47 or ??????
It looks like the stamp might have been re-backed. Look at the whole top edge, the top right and the bottom left corner. I bet the reverse of the stamp is quite clean and White. I still cannot tell whether it is France $7 or French Colonies #14. Considering the difference in values I would have to lean to ti being the French colonies issue.
froland I'm glad to hear that you find my site helpful. I wish there had been such a place that I could reference in my earlier collecting years. I can only hope that there are many others collectors that can see the value of it with there collecting pursuits.