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Oceania/Australia : New variety found on the 1937 Sesquicentennial 2d

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Rob1956
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Member ACCC (Australian Commonwealth Collectors Club of NSW)
29 May 2018
01:37:46am
The block of 20 stamp I own was originally recognised as having 3 varieties, 2 rare and 1 very scarce. I was informed only hours ago by the stamp specialist I originally obtained the block of 20 from that a 4th variety has been discovered, it is unlisted and scarce.

The original block of 20

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The varieties already identified

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Man with Tail

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Pantaloon, officer at far left holding musket

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Koala in Tree directly above officer's outstretched hand

The new discovery

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Thick curved line above "17" of 1788

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DaveSheridan
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29 May 2018
05:16:36am
re: New variety found on the 1937 Sesquicentennial 2d

Interesting, and I'm very, very, happy that you got your hands on that block!

However, I have to ask "says who?". If it's a new variety, that would suggest that multiple copies have been located. Have they been publicised at all? If so, it's passed me by completely.

Can you advise the position in your block?

Sorry for the interrogation, but I'd like to know before I plough through the hundreds of copies I have Big GrinBig Grin


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Rob1956
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Member ACCC (Australian Commonwealth Collectors Club of NSW)
29 May 2018
12:39:27pm
re: New variety found on the 1937 Sesquicentennial 2d

Hi Dave.

The block of 20 is rare and is worth $2,500, that's not catalogue value but actual invoice cost.

I was told that so far it has only been found on the blocks with similar varieties, two others I was told exist do not have the koala in tree variety.

Of course, there may be a single used one sitting somewhere in a collection. I was informed that unused is worth $150.

I believe it is from sheet C, and the variety is on the 2nd bottom row (9th row) and the 2nd stamp in. I will need to confirm if it is from sheet C tomorrow when I ring the specialist. And the information came from Juzwin P/L; the variety has never been mentioned previously and it is unlisted.

As far as I know there has never been any mention of such a variety, and I have yet to come across any mention of it on the websites I have visited or in catalogues.

I am also compiling a listing of the 2d, 3d and 9d sesquicentennial commemorative varieties.

Rob

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DaveSheridan
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29 May 2018
08:50:22pm
re: New variety found on the 1937 Sesquicentennial 2d

Hi Rob, I thought it may have been a Juzwin piece.

I'll be interested to see if there's any further discussion re this find.

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Horamakhet
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31 May 2018
03:46:05am
re: New variety found on the 1937 Sesquicentennial 2d

Hi Rob & Dave


It just goes to show, that nothing in philately is finite, always something new

Horamakhet

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JohnnyRockets
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31 May 2018
08:55:25am
re: New variety found on the 1937 Sesquicentennial 2d

Hi Rob,

This is fascinating!

As a newbie, I was unaware of such a thing. I thought all blocks would naturally be the same down to the fine details.

I cannot see the difference with the man in pantaloons or find the koala, but I have no doubt they are there.

Very interesting for a newbie to observe.

Thanks for this learning experience (at least for me!) Happy



JR

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Rob1956
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Member ACCC (Australian Commonwealth Collectors Club of NSW)
31 May 2018
09:05:11am
re: New variety found on the 1937 Sesquicentennial 2d

Hi Horamakhet

That's very true, always something different appears. I am waiting for a newer version of disk magnifier with LED to come into stock at the local electronics store, it is very powerful and will magnify a small Australian KGVI stamp to half the size of an ACSC catalogue.

Also I will be buying a microscope that connects to a computer to further analyse the stamps, nothing will be missed. In the 50s and 60s, all one could use was a hand held magnifier.

This will allow me to find varieties of the ½d kangaroo (1938-49), which would have been unnoticed since the first research began in 1952. I am sure I will be finding inking errors and plate flaws not previously known, I bought the entire collection consisting of over 1,000 of the ½d roos that belonged to two well known stamp experts, one died some time ago.

The new variety on the 1937 2d sesquicentennial was by accident, now I will have to add it to the stamps being photographed to be added to the new KGVI ACSC catalogue.

Rob

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Horamakhet
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31 May 2018
10:12:18pm
re: New variety found on the 1937 Sesquicentennial 2d

Hi Rob

Just to let you know, sometimes Aldi sell a microscope that connects to a computer, and they are excellent for close examination. It allows you to examine the item close up on your computer screen, and it also allows you to transfer the image to a computer data base.

I purchased mine for about $69.00 a year or so ago.

I now use this in preference to my stereo microscope which I use for gemmology.

The microscope is designed for specimens, but it really works well for close work on stamps.

I would be lost without it.

Hope this is of help.

Horamakhet

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DaveSheridan
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31 May 2018
10:47:28pm
re: New variety found on the 1937 Sesquicentennial 2d

I'm firmly of the opinion that a variety that requires a microscope to see it isn't a variety at all.

Some philatelists only consider naked-eye flaws to be "legitimate". I fall in the middle

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Rob1956
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Member ACCC (Australian Commonwealth Collectors Club of NSW)
01 Jun 2018
01:00:46am
re: New variety found on the 1937 Sesquicentennial 2d

Quote:

"I'm firmly of the opinion that a variety that requires a microscope to see it isn't a variety at all.

Some philatelists only consider naked-eye flaws to be "legitimate". I fall in the middle"


The microscope isn't to find microscopic varieties but to enhance the variety so it can be photographed and shown on the forum, it also helps me see what paper type was used.

Not all colour flaws can be easily recognised by the naked eye as the flaw can be only slightly darker than the background.

For example, JohnnyRockets is asking where is the Pantaloon and koala, it is easy to see by one who knows where to look but to others who have never seen the flaw before it can be a mystery.

I have no interest in what some philatelists call "fly specks" but will mention such minor flaws to keep the research relevant, though I will not scan the stamp to highlight them.

Rob


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Rob1956
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Member ACCC (Australian Commonwealth Collectors Club of NSW)
01 Jun 2018
01:10:07am
re: New variety found on the 1937 Sesquicentennial 2d

Hi JohnnyRockets

Not all blocks are the same, with my block of 20, it has a unique combination of flaws, other blocks that have the "man with tail" Pantaloon" and a thick curved line at the base of the tree does not have the "koala" shaped colour flaw.

The first image is the "Pantaloon" flaw, it is merely a dark colour flaw on the groin, and the second is the "koala" on the side of a tree, just above the outstretched hand of an officer.

Image Not Found Image Not Found

Rob

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Rob1956
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Member ACCC (Australian Commonwealth Collectors Club of NSW)
01 Jun 2018
01:28:10am
re: New variety found on the 1937 Sesquicentennial 2d

Hi Horamakhet

The microscope I have in mind is the LCD digital microscope DM3 with 10-500X magnification; it will also help me identify forged specimens. It is out of stock at the moment, I will soon put an order in to buy it.

I scanned what it looks like.

Image Not Found

Rob

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DaveSheridan
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01 Jun 2018
02:11:27am
re: New variety found on the 1937 Sesquicentennial 2d

Wow, they're pricey. Surely a $100 scanner could do the same job, AND leave more money for buying stamps? Happy

This image is an example of a 1200dpi scan on a Canon Lide that cost me $80

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Rob1956
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Member ACCC (Australian Commonwealth Collectors Club of NSW)
01 Jun 2018
12:36:54pm
re: New variety found on the 1937 Sesquicentennial 2d

They are quite expensive (my colour laser printer cost more than the microscope), the printer shows very close-up scans on 600dpi, though it is best that paper texture is best viewed through a microscope and so does identifying forgeries.

For instance, the 1929 airmail stamps, one is made on vertical mesh paper and the other horizontal, the mesh can be easily identified by the microscope, scanning stamps, though it has its uses, and I do a lot of scanning, a scan will not reveal detailed paper texture.

Rob


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Horamakhet
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01 Jun 2018
09:50:28pm
re: New variety found on the 1937 Sesquicentennial 2d

Hi Dave & Rob

Dave

I totally agree with Rob on this one, the better the microscope and the better the resolution, the better the result. My stereo one which I use for Gemmology & small artefact only goes up to 50X., but it has removeable lens, so I can buy others, but they are expensive.

Rob,
I am totally jealous, now I want to have a microscope like that, My Aldi one can scan up to 200X, but your intended purchase has a better platform and scanning system.

Dave The price that Rob is paying, is a really good price, some top of the range stereo Microscopes can cost in the thousands of dollars.
Also Rob, I will check and see if I have any mint stamps mentioned, and scan them for you if I do.
Good luck with the book,

Horamakhet

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DaveSheridan
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01 Jun 2018
10:23:42pm
re: New variety found on the 1937 Sesquicentennial 2d

If I was trying to identify fakes of classic 19th century stamps, I might, just might, think that the investment would be worthwhile. Winking

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Rob1956
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Member ACCC (Australian Commonwealth Collectors Club of NSW)
02 Jun 2018
08:19:09am
re: New variety found on the 1937 Sesquicentennial 2d

Hi Horamakhet

With the type of stamps I have, many rare to very rare, a microscope is a necessity, it is also important to explore every part of a stamp if a book is to be made concerning a particular stamp(s).

I’ve seen this microscope in action and I was hooked into wanting to buy one. I also will be purchasing a LED disk magnifier (500X), I soon will get that as well, I placed a 1949 ½d roo under it and it was magnified to the size of a credit card without any distortion.

I want to be properly prepared for the job. Of course it helps me with the rest of my collection. The only thing I won’t buy is a watermark detector, to me it is a waste of money, watermarks are very easily recognised when the stamp is held against light, and thin paper varieties are very noticeable.

The largest album I have, and it took months finding one. I took my partner to Newcastle last Saturday (a 2½ hour train ride) for the stamp fair and found the folder I was looking for, perfect for large sheets. It has A3 pages, and what made my day is that clear pages can be purchased, the book was a little pricey but the book is quite big, and a little haggling got the price down to $130 plus a packet of 5 free pages that would have cost me $28.

I spoke to Renniks and we agreed on a cheaper price on the microscope which helps a bit.

If you find any unused stamps, it would be good. I have nothing against used stamps, I have a few myself, the only reason why I prefer the unused ones is the fact that a cancellation can obscure the variety or make it difficult to see.

There will be a few books, the first will be on the ½d roo (I literally have over 1,000 of those little critters, they are the original research stamps from 1952, the researchers (one I know passed away some time ago) are/were both philatelic experts (J.C. Thompson & Lance Skinner), they created a book (I have one, it came with the stamps (published in 2003) plus a very early booklet about the stamps printed sometime in the late 1950s). A reprint of the 2003 book was published much later on and I was told Philas House has that book. Mine will be the third and more detailed as in the early period of the research there were no computers and the most advanced magnifier were hand held.

The title of the original book “THE ½D KANGAROO POSTAGE STAMP OF THE REIGN OF KING GEORGE VI PRODUCED FROM PLATES 1 & 2”.

My book title “THE ½d KANGAROO VARIETIES 1938-1949 PRODUCED FROM PLATES 1 AND 2”

Rob

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"Specialised Collector of Australian Pre-Decimal & Decimal Stamps"
Rob1956
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Member ACCC (Australian Commonwealth Collectors Club of NSW)
02 Jun 2018
08:48:43am
re: New variety found on the 1937 Sesquicentennial 2d

Quote:

"If I was trying to identify fakes of classic 19th century stamps, I might, just might, think that the investment would be worthwhile."



Hi Dave

95% of my 19th century Australian State stamps are either proofs or specimens, and they will be going under the microscope.

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This is a very scarce unissued (rejected colour) Plate Proof, Plate number 2. and printed on stiff Wove V paper.

Is this an original 1860 proof or an 1872 proof reprint, a microscope will tell the difference, even though I know the answer, the microscope will pick up the difference, photograph it in very high definition and it can be uploaded.

It also helps in the identification for insurance.

Here is when a powerful magnifier, a micrometer and a microscope is necessary. Below are two £2 Coat-of-Arms, both have the roller flaw variety, one I bought for $375 and the other $2,950, can you spot the difference?

The top image is only slightly darker, the intense deepness of the green is from the scanner before I had it calibrated.

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I had to delete the "s" at the end of "https" to access the site" and I like the way you constructed the websiteThumbs Up

Rob

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Rob1956
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Member ACCC (Australian Commonwealth Collectors Club of NSW)
02 Jun 2018
08:52:09pm
re: New variety found on the 1937 Sesquicentennial 2d

Hi Dave

Meant to mention that after speaking with the specialist the block of 20 was either from sheet B or D. no-one knows for sure. But the curve (deeper colour line) will only be found in the sheet with the varieties.

Currently no other mention of its discovery have been catalogued, I will be sending an image of this variety plus a few other unlisted rarities to Jeff Kellow, editor of the ACSC for inclusion in the next edition of King George VI.

Rob

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Horamakhet
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02 Jun 2018
09:48:00pm
re: New variety found on the 1937 Sesquicentennial 2d

Hi Rob

Thanks for the information, it is very helpful.

Also your two pound roller flaw, I think I noticed the difference, but, I will let Dave see if he knows before I mention it. mine is an uneducated guess.

Horamakhet

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DaveSheridan
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02 Jun 2018
10:22:04pm
re: New variety found on the 1937 Sesquicentennial 2d

One of the Arms is the thin paper variety, which is rare to say the least! Lovely

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DaveSheridan
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03 Jun 2018
12:23:22am
re: New variety found on the 1937 Sesquicentennial 2d

Thin papers are quite easy to spot, are plentiful and well within the range of most collectors (except the £2 Arms of course!!)

I sold a 2/- Crocodile last year, and currently have this KGVI 2d Die II for sale with a normal for comparison

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Rob1956
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Member ACCC (Australian Commonwealth Collectors Club of NSW)
03 Jun 2018
09:19:52am
re: New variety found on the 1937 Sesquicentennial 2d

Quote:

"One of the Arms is the thin paper variety, which is rare to say the least! Lovely"


Hi Dave

The thin paper 2d Die II is one stamp I do not have.

For it to be classified as thin the paper would need to be 0.075mm or less, but the rule of thumb is to look at the front in the light or just look at the transparency of the stamp; is the watermark on the left stamp inverted?

The first £2 Coat of Arms is the very thin paper, when I went to the stamp fair in Newcastle I saw two stamps I would have snapped up in a flash, it was a superbly centred £1 Coronation Specimen printed by W.C. McCracken (I have the Ash version in superb MUH, my avatar is the specimen mentioned in my collection) and a £2 Specimen Coat of Arms with roller flaw, the £1 Coronation Specimen in MUH would have been valued over $2,000 and the Specimen Coat of Arms with roller flaw about $1,000.

Unfortunately they were hinged so I passed the offer of buying them.

I do not have all the KGVI thins, though I do have 95% of them, and very soon I will upload what I have including inverted watermarks.

Rob


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Rob1956
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Member ACCC (Australian Commonwealth Collectors Club of NSW)
03 Jun 2018
09:29:23am
re: New variety found on the 1937 Sesquicentennial 2d

Hi Horamakhet

The top stamp is the very thin paper.

Rob

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DaveSheridan
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03 Jun 2018
11:30:56am
re: New variety found on the 1937 Sesquicentennial 2d

Rob, both watermark upright. The scan doesn't do it justice, the design is clearly visible through the back of the stamp

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Rob1956
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Member ACCC (Australian Commonwealth Collectors Club of NSW)
03 Jun 2018
04:05:52pm
re: New variety found on the 1937 Sesquicentennial 2d

Is it MUH?

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Horamakhet
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03 Jun 2018
05:13:25pm
re: New variety found on the 1937 Sesquicentennial 2d

Hi Dave

So thin papers in KGV1 carry a premium, or just certain values, apart from the very high denominations?

Horamaket

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Rob1956
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Member ACCC (Australian Commonwealth Collectors Club of NSW)
03 Jun 2018
07:09:44pm
re: New variety found on the 1937 Sesquicentennial 2d

Hi Horamaket

They all carry a premium, but as Dave said earlier that many are well within the range of most collectors. Thin paper commercially used are scarce and yet some will fit right into the budget of many collectors.

Hi Dave

The stamp you are showing was issued in 1938 and quoting the recent ACSC your stamp in MUH is $200; MLH $150, but does not show a price for used though I assume it will be around the $50 mark.

Rob

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DaveSheridan
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03 Jun 2018
09:00:15pm
re: New variety found on the 1937 Sesquicentennial 2d

Rob, it's commercially used, and your estimate is bang on. I have it listed for $45

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Rob1956
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Member ACCC (Australian Commonwealth Collectors Club of NSW)
04 Jun 2018
12:26:08am
re: New variety found on the 1937 Sesquicentennial 2d

Not a bad guess, pity is isn't on cover, it would be worth a few hundred dollars.

Rob

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