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United States/Covers & Postmarks : FDC Question/Observations - Stamped Envelopes

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JohnnyRockets
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18 May 2018
11:19:31am
Hi all,

I was just examining in detail the FDC from my collection shown here.


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I'm thinking that this is Scott U542, 2 1/2 cents, Washington, Dull Blue. It is an Artcraft cover.


I have been doing some light reading about the topic of FDC's and am wondering the following:
* Is this cover considered to be "over-franked" because of the Mount Vernon 1 1/2 stamp added to the cover?

* Is it safe to assume that at this time in history, a 2 1/2 cent stamp was enough to carry ANYTHING that can fit into this envelope?

* Any thoughts on the significance of the Mount Vernon stamp other than it being the adult home of George Washington?

* There is a small number penciled on the cover of "542". Is this significant or just a notation left over from the previous owner?



Now some personal observations:
* I think these stamps are cool, and the raised embossed stamp is interesting.

* These kinds of stamped envelopes really seem to represent a whole separate "sub-area" of cover collecting, at least from my point of view.

* The building represented within the cache "might/maybe" be the Chicago building, but I'm not sure. Please feel free to correct me here. Seems a lot has maybe changed in downtown Chicago in the last 58 years.

* I was surprised to see the use of a "stamped envelope" as far back as 1960, but then upon further research I found that this was not uncommon at all. That these kinds of "built in" stamped envelopes have been around from 1925 to 2001 (and I'm sure beyond 2001).



Thanks to all for reading! Happy




Johnny

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roy
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BuckaCover.com - 8,000+ new covers coming November 7
18 May 2018
02:05:12pm
re: FDC Question/Observations - Stamped Envelopes

Quote:

"Is this cover considered to be "over-franked" because of the Mount Vernon 1 1/2 stamp added to the cover?"



No, it is uprated to the proper 4c first class rate for a First Class letter.

Quote:

"Is it safe to assume that at this time in history, a 2 1/2 cent stamp was enough to carry ANYTHING that can fit into this envelope?"



No. The envelope itself was for use at a reduced rate -- likely third class or printed matter. Somebody else may weigh in here.

Quote:

"Any thoughts on the significance of the Mount Vernon stamp other than it being the adult home of George Washington?"



Just an appropriate and attractive way to properly pay the first class rate.

Quote:

"There is a small number penciled on the cover of "542". Is this significant or just a notation left over from the previous owner?"



Previous owner/dealer simply left off the "U" from the catalog number U542.

Quote:

"I was surprised to see the use of a "stamped envelope" as far back as 1960, but then upon further research I found that this was not uncommon at all. That these kinds of "built in" stamped envelopes have been around from 1925 to 2001 (and I'm sure beyond 2001)."



They are still available. The first USA one was issued in 1853, only 6 years after the first US postage stamp.

Old ones may be seen here:
https://www.buckacover.com/covers/search.php?code=usasta

and newer ones as FDCs here:
https://www.buckacover.com/covers/search.php?code=usfdcstat

Roy
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amsd
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Editor, Seal News; contributor, JuicyHeads
18 May 2018
03:34:23pm
re: FDC Question/Observations - Stamped Envelopes

Quote:

"No, it is uprated to the proper 4c first class rate for a First Class letter. "



JR, all FDCs must be franked with enough postage to cover the first class rate, even if the FDC will not be mailed, hence the PSE's uprating.


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JohnnyRockets
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18 May 2018
04:14:48pm
re: FDC Question/Observations - Stamped Envelopes

Hi guys!

Always so much to learn.

---------------------------------

@Roy,

Okay, I think I now understand uprating vs over-franking.

Ahhh! I didn't even make the connection with the number 542! Such a rookie!

Thanks for the links, I will check them out tonight of course.

---------------------------------

@AMSD,

Thank you for that clarification, that explains it completely!

---------------------------------

@Both,

Thanks! Happy


JR

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Bobstamp
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18 May 2018
09:21:11pm
re: FDC Question/Observations - Stamped Envelopes

One of my webpages, about my home town, Silver City in New Mexico, features a upfranked stamped envelope posted in 1895.

Bob

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ikeyPikey
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18 May 2018
10:49:59pm
re: FDC Question/Observations - Stamped Envelopes

JR:

The "franked" envelopes & postal cards that a Post Office sells are known as "Postal Stationery".

United Postal Stationery Society ... to learn more

Cheers,

/s/ ikeyPikey

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BenFranklin1902
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Tom in Exton, PA
19 May 2018
10:11:42am

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re: FDC Question/Observations - Stamped Envelopes

Johnny, here's a few examples for you, the 7.9 Drum stamp was issued for bulk rate mail. As others said, the postage on a First Day Cover needs to equal first class postage. So the options were..

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A coil pair of the new stamp which exceeded the postage rate of 13 cents at that time. It makes for an accurate and pleasing cover.

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The inclusion of another but topical stamp to make up the rate. This was necessary on your cover since it was printed stationary on the envelope.

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And this one is simply a combination cover. The Lafayette stamp was the 13 cent first class rate, but it was cool to add an older Lafayette stamp.

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Again, here's a first day cancel on the 7.7 cent Bugle issue.

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This is also a first day cancel. It's called an unofficial first day cover. The stamp was issued at the ASDA Stamp Show, so here it is on the first day with the show cancel.


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Some folks will also take the covers to regular post offices whose name is within the theme of the stamp.

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Here's a dual first day cover. Two different related stamps, on their first day, on the same cover.

Yea, first day covers are collector generated souvenirs, but they can be fun to collect!

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JohnnyRockets
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19 May 2018
12:44:43pm
re: FDC Question/Observations - Stamped Envelopes

@Bobstamp,

That is a great example to learn from, thank you! And a very great story (on your webpage) in addition!

----------------------

@ikeyPikey,

Thank you for the clarification! I had never even dreamed there was a "society" for such a thing. But when it comes to stamps and the hobby in general, it seems that there is no shortage of "societies". Winking Very cool!

-----------------------

@BenFranklin1902,

These examples are all VERY helpful! I found it interesting to take a cover to a post office that matches the theme on the FDC! A really cool idea.

Regarding "The Barrymores". Is that like Drew Barrymore the actress I wonder? Her family?

As usual, answer begets another/more question(s).

1) The FDC's that say "Oddity" - what does that mean? Or what are they? Do they have to say "Oddity" on them or is it because they are more of a "custom creation"?

2) Your last example of a dual FDC is really cool. I'm having a hard time understanding how this was created. Although I guess it was sent "through the mail" (cancelled) twice on two separate occasions to make it "cooler"? Which worked, it did become "cooler"! Winking

--------------

@All,

Really appreciate all of you great responses! They REALLY help me to learn! Big Grin


JR

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amsd
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Editor, Seal News; contributor, JuicyHeads
19 May 2018
01:58:51pm
re: FDC Question/Observations - Stamped Envelopes

johnny

that dual FDC never went through the mail: not the first time and not the second.

most likely it was requested the first time, and mailed back in an envelope from USPS; the second time it was submitted (having already been cancelled years earlier) with postage attached, to the USPS fulfillment section, or to the FDC PO, or, possibly, handed to a clerk at the FDC ceremony

but it was never mailed

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BenFranklin1902
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Tom in Exton, PA
19 May 2018
02:10:35pm

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re: FDC Question/Observations - Stamped Envelopes

Regarding "The Barrymores". Is that like Drew Barrymore the actress I wonder? Her family?

Yes, Drew is the youngest of that family legacy, which explains how she has a career.

1) The FDC's that say "Oddity" - what does that mean? Or what are they? Do they have to say "Oddity" on them or is it because they are more of a "custom creation"?


ODDITY is a brand name just like ARTCRAFT. In fact it was my little business from 1976-78. It was fun while it lasted.

2) Your last example of a dual FDC is really cool. I'm having a hard time understanding how this was created. Although I guess it was sent "through the mail" (cancelled) twice on two separate occasions to make it "cooler"? Which worked, it did become "cooler"! Winking


Covers like that are usually done in person (at least the second stamp), rather than sent through the mails. In fact owned this cover, who knows who serviced the first stamp, and I did the hand servicing on the second stamp. Here's a few more...

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I was at the First Day ceremony for both of these stamps, so I serviced these in person too.

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Dual cancels can also be done for different reasons. Back when this stamp was issued, people were asking why it wasn't issued on Clara's birthday in her birthplace. So I ran up to East Orange on the appointed day and serviced a mess of covers. I later went to the First Day of the stamp in Belleville and added the second stamp and cancel. The First Day was in Belleville because that's the location of the Clara Maass Hospital.

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And here's one I did just for kicks. I was at the First Day and in this time frame there was concern that first day covers weren't actually cancelled on the correct date, and it's known that large dealer orders are serviced at a central unit in Washington DC. So I created a cover that absolutely had to be at the right place at the right time!



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JohnnyRockets
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19 May 2018
06:04:32pm
re: FDC Question/Observations - Stamped Envelopes

@Ben,

First day ceremonies are always at the Post Office that first releases the stamp to the public, correct?

I wonder how this location is determined and if all Post Offices will have a ceremony like this at some time or another?

Thanks A LOT for the great examples, those are really nice!


JR Big Grin

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BenFranklin1902
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Tom in Exton, PA
20 May 2018
09:38:26am

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re: FDC Question/Observations - Stamped Envelopes

First day ceremonies can vary. For instance the ceremony for the Clara Maass stamp was at the hospital named after her. The ceremony itself is often at a historic site related to the stamp. It varies by stamp, no doubt some negotiations and politics!

And the first day cancels usually are available at the local post office on that day.

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amsd
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Editor, Seal News; contributor, JuicyHeads
20 May 2018
12:23:08pm
re: FDC Question/Observations - Stamped Envelopes

The broadway legends FDC ceremony was in an alleyway behind Schubert Theatre in NYC

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JohnnyRockets
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20 May 2018
04:45:57pm
re: FDC Question/Observations - Stamped Envelopes

Hi all,

What determines when/how they will be released?

I would imagine the Post Office has something to do with it?

Place/time, etc.


Thanks,


JR

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amsd
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Editor, Seal News; contributor, JuicyHeads
20 May 2018
07:28:35pm
re: FDC Question/Observations - Stamped Envelopes

JR

the PO is the sole determiner.

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