Discussion - Member to Member Sales - Research Center
Discussion - Member to Member Sales - Research Center
Yesterday I sent an email asking if I was to receive notice of shipping. This evening I got a reply from their owner, they back ordered my pages and will ship when they receive them. Oh yes, they also ran through over $200 on my Credit card. Right away.
Their terms of sale states items that need to be special ordered cannot be returned for refund. The issue is their site made it look like two sets were waiting to be mailed. I am going to be away on vacation after next week and do not want this mailing to be sitting in my carrier station while I am gone. I wouldn't have sent the order if their dang website had been kept up to date.
So many dealers, especially supply dealers, do a poor job of informing customers when something is not immediately available. Maybe because they want you to get on the hook.
OK I will go scream now..
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I can imagine your frustration.
I think if it were I, I'd either reply back quickly and say you want to cancel, because you don't want it shipped while you're away.
Another possibility would be to ask them to proceed with the order but to not ship it until ____ (date you specify), or else not to ship it until you let them know. (It doesn't sound like it's being drop shipped, but maybe you should verify that. If it's being drop shipped, rather than being shipped back to your supplier, then your supplier won't have much control over when it is actually shipped.)
I do think you also have the option of doing a vacation mail hold with your local post office (perhaps just for packages?), but I seem to recall that you had some concerns about that in the past.
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I'd be furious as you should well be. They clearly misrepresented their position of the pages. Your post however doesn't do the rest of us any good. The only name we can walk away with is Amos which does neither us or them any favors. I don't think hardly any
Philatelic suppliers keep a good stock of pre-printed pages anymore but order them once they have an order for them. The amount of different types of pages for different countries/years is to overwhelming for them to do so. Still they clearly lied to you stating they were already back ordered. They have really put you in a position where as you really only have one option that makes any sense. You need the pages and they have your money. Even if you were to get your money back it would probably be a hassle you don't need and you would still be in the same situation in needing the pages. Chalk it up to lesson learned and wait for the pages. My principles would not allow me to do business with this outfit. I would appreciate it as well as others,I'm sure, if you could give us the name so we don't have to find out the hard way, as you did.
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I would cancel the order. I have ordered from Subway and usually each time one or more items are not in stock. I try to order multiple items to reduce total shipping rather than split orders. They do notify you quickly and ask for what you want to do so I give them credit for that.
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09:25:56pm
I would contact the company again, tell them you ordered only because their website showed the item as being in stock, and that you are not interested in a backorder. Request a cancellation of the order and an immediate refund to your credit card. Do not make any "or else ..." statements.
If you get an unsatisfactory answer from them, do not argue with them, simply contact your credit card company, and explain the situation and request a reversal of the charges. Any credit card company that does not stand behind you in this situation should have their card torn up.
And I say this as a merchant accepting credit cards for the last 20 years.
Roy
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The problem lies with Amos Media. They show their album products (Scott, Minkus, etc.) as "In Stock" at all times. This is because they have shifted (or are still in the process of finishing the process) to print on demand. I ordered two parts of the Scott International Album (from Subway). Subway has to order from Scott (Amos Media). Scott prints through a contract printer. Orders have to be placed in line of already placed jobs from other companies that use the same printer. It took Subway 6 weeks to get the album pages from Scott.
As Al stated, Subway does a good job letting you know when items are not in stock., and they ask you if you want the order help and shipped together, or they will ship what is in stock now and the rest later. I always wait until they put it together, unless I have a buyer wanting the items "now".
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In adding on to what Al said about Subway, I've found that phoning in an order to them, rather than ordering online (which is typically my preference) really helps with them. They have real-time information that the website doesn't. Because shipping to the West Coast is kind of expensive with them, I've found that they could work with me on the phone so that they could tell me which additional items I could add to my order before the shipping jumped up to the next price point to get the most for my shipping dollar. Plus, the total you get from them on the phone is really the total, rather than the adjustments (increases) in shipping costs that I always experienced when ordering online.
I always found ordering online with them a little frustrating, but I could not have been happier when placing an order by phone.
(I know this post is off-topic from the OP's experience, but I just wanted to mention this since Al brought Subway into the discussion.)
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No back order on Steiner pages...
Now, if some enterprising people want to do something similar on larger pages (Scott clones) you may have some customers.
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I heard back this morning. This is what he said about the 'in stock' statement on their web page:
'The two in stock is simply something that the web store software needs in order for me to track sales and list the items. I start out at the beginning of the year with an inventory of 5 so I can see how many I have sold.'
In other words it's meaningless. You can't tell me there isn't some other way for him to track sales of each item besides doing something this misleading. It's disingenuous.
I had also ordered a binder and asked him to just mail that and cancel the page order while crediting my card back.
One he refunds me and I have the binder I'll post the name of the dealer. I will order the pages direct from Amos once they are back in stock. Lesson learned.
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I have seen this situation in the past whereby a company has fallen for the salesman's spiel and ended up with a system that is totally wrong for their requirements.
Once the "dud" system has been purchased the company no longer has the money to replace it. They just have to try and make the best of a bad situation.
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New message just in from him:
'If I can cancel the pages I will. Please understand that it will be the same process of ordering and waiting. I have an email in to my rep to see if I can cancel the pages and when they are scheduled to be printed. If she will let me cancel the print order I will. If you prefer, since you are going out of town, we can leave the order as is and I can hold the order and ship it half way through your trip or so so it will arrive when you get back. Think it over, I will let you know what I find out.'
I think he is just emailing Amos customer service. I could be doing that myself if I hadn't gone through him. He sure doesn't want to put through a refund. Wonder if he is going to tell me he can't cancel it. I can call Amos in that case.
Yeah I'll post his company name. Just for now want to get my money back, or part of it, before I do.
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02:58:12am
" ... The two in stock is simply something that the web store software needs in order for me to track sales and list the items. I start out at the beginning of the year with an inventory of 5 so I can see how many I have sold.' ...."
Cripes, six years at two diffefrent colleges and I have no idea what all that means. And actually, at this point I do not want to know anyhing beyond the name of the seller. On the bright side, I have been buying from Subway since the late 1950s and before that wo0uld go with my dad to Nassau Street on occasional Saturdays, which always included a visit to the Soriginal ubway Kiosk, which was, inside the subway station crossover.
I cannot recall ever having a problem that was not corrected by Virginia promptly, including sending me an order that had apparently been sidetracked in the mail so that I had my items in hand before the payment actually arrivexd.
I recently ordered several S. Gibbons catalogs that were on closeouts at decent prices. Apparently they are no longer going to carry Gibbons catalogs or perhaps Gibbons is not going to print updates.Subway still has some of the catalogs available under the topic "Reference Books/ Stanley Gibbons."
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When the dealer gets the back order in stock, he can now state he has it in stock.
I am sure he will want you to take it since he will be sitting on it for a while unless he is smart and just tries to sell it as his cost.
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He sent notice today on the cancellation for the pages. but- no credit is showing just yet on my card account. It's over $200 so it may take a day or so to show up. Once it does I plan to link to the dealer's web page.
He has good reviews from some of his customers, a well designed site. It appears he does not have a walk in store and in fact operates out of his home. His big issue for me is that his website makes it appear he has a deep stock of items when in fact he doesn't. The thing with his setting up his site in a way that appears he has more stock than he does is sort of inexcusable IMO.
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From what you just described, I'll bet he is probably drop shipping using a supplier to do that with. That's how he can provide a wide range of product. It is a common practice. I did it as well for a while when I was a dealer. It works well, but you are at the mercy of your supplier if they do not regularly replenish their warehouse.
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The dealer is NOLA Stamp Shop, here's a link to their Minkus page showing the part 1B Global section:
http://stores.nolastampshop.com/minkus-worldwide-album-parts/
Click on the 1B listing and you will see '2 left in stock'.
I have checked several times today, he still has not run through a credit for $212 on this. I am trying being polite, just sent one reminder this morning. Tomorrow I plan to check my Credit card account then call them if a credit hasn't been processed, they can sometimes tell you if credit has been sent but not posted. It is different from a charge, I know. If it hasn't I am asking him again, then calling back the card company to request a claim.
You live and you learn who the good guys and bad guys are. Sometimes it is more like learning who the just thoughtless ones are.
Mod - make link clickable
(Modified by Moderator on 2018-05-09 06:39:49)
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I will not automatically blacklist a dealer over one transaction. In this case, if they do have something you can always contact in advance. As mentioned earlier, it is a good practice with Subway. They have a diverse stock and do not have everything all the time especially stamp mounts. In this case I do buy mounts elsewhere now but will check them when order other items.
For staples such as mounts, vario pages, Lighthouse binders/slip cases, etc. I have found dealers who I prefer.
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Heard from him today, he sent a refund yesterday, but... I used Paypal to make the payment on my credit card. Probably that adds a day or two to the process, assume it will show up as off my card balance by the weekend. That's not his fault.
NOLA could be a good source for some things. I'm still ticked off at how they list stuff as in stock when it isn't. Think I'll stick with Subway and Amos.
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I also like iHobb. Shipments have always been very well packed. Good/reasonable prices and quick service.
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"I used Paypal to make the payment on my credit card. Probably that adds a day or two to the process, assume it will show up as off my card balance by the weekend."
Check your Paypal cash balance. It may just go that far. You may have to pay the credit card yourself.
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Well, wouldn't that suck pond water?
I just looked at my card account however and a of an hour ago the $212 is showing as a pending credit.
Like I said, his using the inventory count on his website program to remind himself what he sold in a given year is ludicrous. Maybe I am being too hard on him but he wasted my time and tied up my funds; there are other suppliers out there without these complications.
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That's the dilemma I find myself in. Last week I went shopping on line for part 1B of the Minkus Global Album reprint, Amos has it on backorder. I found another supply dealer with this on their website and showing as 'two available'. So I ordered it, sat back and waited for confirmation of shipping.
Yesterday I sent an email asking if I was to receive notice of shipping. This evening I got a reply from their owner, they back ordered my pages and will ship when they receive them. Oh yes, they also ran through over $200 on my Credit card. Right away.
Their terms of sale states items that need to be special ordered cannot be returned for refund. The issue is their site made it look like two sets were waiting to be mailed. I am going to be away on vacation after next week and do not want this mailing to be sitting in my carrier station while I am gone. I wouldn't have sent the order if their dang website had been kept up to date.
So many dealers, especially supply dealers, do a poor job of informing customers when something is not immediately available. Maybe because they want you to get on the hook.
OK I will go scream now..
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re: 'In Stock', But Back ordered!
I can imagine your frustration.
I think if it were I, I'd either reply back quickly and say you want to cancel, because you don't want it shipped while you're away.
Another possibility would be to ask them to proceed with the order but to not ship it until ____ (date you specify), or else not to ship it until you let them know. (It doesn't sound like it's being drop shipped, but maybe you should verify that. If it's being drop shipped, rather than being shipped back to your supplier, then your supplier won't have much control over when it is actually shipped.)
I do think you also have the option of doing a vacation mail hold with your local post office (perhaps just for packages?), but I seem to recall that you had some concerns about that in the past.
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re: 'In Stock', But Back ordered!
I'd be furious as you should well be. They clearly misrepresented their position of the pages. Your post however doesn't do the rest of us any good. The only name we can walk away with is Amos which does neither us or them any favors. I don't think hardly any
Philatelic suppliers keep a good stock of pre-printed pages anymore but order them once they have an order for them. The amount of different types of pages for different countries/years is to overwhelming for them to do so. Still they clearly lied to you stating they were already back ordered. They have really put you in a position where as you really only have one option that makes any sense. You need the pages and they have your money. Even if you were to get your money back it would probably be a hassle you don't need and you would still be in the same situation in needing the pages. Chalk it up to lesson learned and wait for the pages. My principles would not allow me to do business with this outfit. I would appreciate it as well as others,I'm sure, if you could give us the name so we don't have to find out the hard way, as you did.
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re: 'In Stock', But Back ordered!
I would cancel the order. I have ordered from Subway and usually each time one or more items are not in stock. I try to order multiple items to reduce total shipping rather than split orders. They do notify you quickly and ask for what you want to do so I give them credit for that.
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BuckaCover.com - 80,000 covers priced 60c to $1.50 - Easy browsing 500 categories
06 May 2018
09:25:56pm
re: 'In Stock', But Back ordered!
I would contact the company again, tell them you ordered only because their website showed the item as being in stock, and that you are not interested in a backorder. Request a cancellation of the order and an immediate refund to your credit card. Do not make any "or else ..." statements.
If you get an unsatisfactory answer from them, do not argue with them, simply contact your credit card company, and explain the situation and request a reversal of the charges. Any credit card company that does not stand behind you in this situation should have their card torn up.
And I say this as a merchant accepting credit cards for the last 20 years.
Roy
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09:39:32pm
re: 'In Stock', But Back ordered!
The problem lies with Amos Media. They show their album products (Scott, Minkus, etc.) as "In Stock" at all times. This is because they have shifted (or are still in the process of finishing the process) to print on demand. I ordered two parts of the Scott International Album (from Subway). Subway has to order from Scott (Amos Media). Scott prints through a contract printer. Orders have to be placed in line of already placed jobs from other companies that use the same printer. It took Subway 6 weeks to get the album pages from Scott.
As Al stated, Subway does a good job letting you know when items are not in stock., and they ask you if you want the order help and shipped together, or they will ship what is in stock now and the rest later. I always wait until they put it together, unless I have a buyer wanting the items "now".
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re: 'In Stock', But Back ordered!
In adding on to what Al said about Subway, I've found that phoning in an order to them, rather than ordering online (which is typically my preference) really helps with them. They have real-time information that the website doesn't. Because shipping to the West Coast is kind of expensive with them, I've found that they could work with me on the phone so that they could tell me which additional items I could add to my order before the shipping jumped up to the next price point to get the most for my shipping dollar. Plus, the total you get from them on the phone is really the total, rather than the adjustments (increases) in shipping costs that I always experienced when ordering online.
I always found ordering online with them a little frustrating, but I could not have been happier when placing an order by phone.
(I know this post is off-topic from the OP's experience, but I just wanted to mention this since Al brought Subway into the discussion.)
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re: 'In Stock', But Back ordered!
No back order on Steiner pages...
Now, if some enterprising people want to do something similar on larger pages (Scott clones) you may have some customers.
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re: 'In Stock', But Back ordered!
I heard back this morning. This is what he said about the 'in stock' statement on their web page:
'The two in stock is simply something that the web store software needs in order for me to track sales and list the items. I start out at the beginning of the year with an inventory of 5 so I can see how many I have sold.'
In other words it's meaningless. You can't tell me there isn't some other way for him to track sales of each item besides doing something this misleading. It's disingenuous.
I had also ordered a binder and asked him to just mail that and cancel the page order while crediting my card back.
One he refunds me and I have the binder I'll post the name of the dealer. I will order the pages direct from Amos once they are back in stock. Lesson learned.
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11:49:45am
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re: 'In Stock', But Back ordered!
I have seen this situation in the past whereby a company has fallen for the salesman's spiel and ended up with a system that is totally wrong for their requirements.
Once the "dud" system has been purchased the company no longer has the money to replace it. They just have to try and make the best of a bad situation.
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re: 'In Stock', But Back ordered!
New message just in from him:
'If I can cancel the pages I will. Please understand that it will be the same process of ordering and waiting. I have an email in to my rep to see if I can cancel the pages and when they are scheduled to be printed. If she will let me cancel the print order I will. If you prefer, since you are going out of town, we can leave the order as is and I can hold the order and ship it half way through your trip or so so it will arrive when you get back. Think it over, I will let you know what I find out.'
I think he is just emailing Amos customer service. I could be doing that myself if I hadn't gone through him. He sure doesn't want to put through a refund. Wonder if he is going to tell me he can't cancel it. I can call Amos in that case.
Yeah I'll post his company name. Just for now want to get my money back, or part of it, before I do.
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Silence in the face of adversity is the father of complicity and collusion, the first cousins of conspiracy..
08 May 2018
02:58:12am
re: 'In Stock', But Back ordered!
" ... The two in stock is simply something that the web store software needs in order for me to track sales and list the items. I start out at the beginning of the year with an inventory of 5 so I can see how many I have sold.' ...."
Cripes, six years at two diffefrent colleges and I have no idea what all that means. And actually, at this point I do not want to know anyhing beyond the name of the seller. On the bright side, I have been buying from Subway since the late 1950s and before that wo0uld go with my dad to Nassau Street on occasional Saturdays, which always included a visit to the Soriginal ubway Kiosk, which was, inside the subway station crossover.
I cannot recall ever having a problem that was not corrected by Virginia promptly, including sending me an order that had apparently been sidetracked in the mail so that I had my items in hand before the payment actually arrivexd.
I recently ordered several S. Gibbons catalogs that were on closeouts at decent prices. Apparently they are no longer going to carry Gibbons catalogs or perhaps Gibbons is not going to print updates.Subway still has some of the catalogs available under the topic "Reference Books/ Stanley Gibbons."
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re: 'In Stock', But Back ordered!
When the dealer gets the back order in stock, he can now state he has it in stock.
I am sure he will want you to take it since he will be sitting on it for a while unless he is smart and just tries to sell it as his cost.
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re: 'In Stock', But Back ordered!
He sent notice today on the cancellation for the pages. but- no credit is showing just yet on my card account. It's over $200 so it may take a day or so to show up. Once it does I plan to link to the dealer's web page.
He has good reviews from some of his customers, a well designed site. It appears he does not have a walk in store and in fact operates out of his home. His big issue for me is that his website makes it appear he has a deep stock of items when in fact he doesn't. The thing with his setting up his site in a way that appears he has more stock than he does is sort of inexcusable IMO.
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11:12:55am
re: 'In Stock', But Back ordered!
From what you just described, I'll bet he is probably drop shipping using a supplier to do that with. That's how he can provide a wide range of product. It is a common practice. I did it as well for a while when I was a dealer. It works well, but you are at the mercy of your supplier if they do not regularly replenish their warehouse.
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re: 'In Stock', But Back ordered!
The dealer is NOLA Stamp Shop, here's a link to their Minkus page showing the part 1B Global section:
http://stores.nolastampshop.com/minkus-worldwide-album-parts/
Click on the 1B listing and you will see '2 left in stock'.
I have checked several times today, he still has not run through a credit for $212 on this. I am trying being polite, just sent one reminder this morning. Tomorrow I plan to check my Credit card account then call them if a credit hasn't been processed, they can sometimes tell you if credit has been sent but not posted. It is different from a charge, I know. If it hasn't I am asking him again, then calling back the card company to request a claim.
You live and you learn who the good guys and bad guys are. Sometimes it is more like learning who the just thoughtless ones are.
Mod - make link clickable
(Modified by Moderator on 2018-05-09 06:39:49)
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re: 'In Stock', But Back ordered!
I will not automatically blacklist a dealer over one transaction. In this case, if they do have something you can always contact in advance. As mentioned earlier, it is a good practice with Subway. They have a diverse stock and do not have everything all the time especially stamp mounts. In this case I do buy mounts elsewhere now but will check them when order other items.
For staples such as mounts, vario pages, Lighthouse binders/slip cases, etc. I have found dealers who I prefer.
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re: 'In Stock', But Back ordered!
Heard from him today, he sent a refund yesterday, but... I used Paypal to make the payment on my credit card. Probably that adds a day or two to the process, assume it will show up as off my card balance by the weekend. That's not his fault.
NOLA could be a good source for some things. I'm still ticked off at how they list stuff as in stock when it isn't. Think I'll stick with Subway and Amos.
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re: 'In Stock', But Back ordered!
I also like iHobb. Shipments have always been very well packed. Good/reasonable prices and quick service.
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re: 'In Stock', But Back ordered!
"I used Paypal to make the payment on my credit card. Probably that adds a day or two to the process, assume it will show up as off my card balance by the weekend."
Check your Paypal cash balance. It may just go that far. You may have to pay the credit card yourself.
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re: 'In Stock', But Back ordered!
Well, wouldn't that suck pond water?
I just looked at my card account however and a of an hour ago the $212 is showing as a pending credit.
Like I said, his using the inventory count on his website program to remind himself what he sold in a given year is ludicrous. Maybe I am being too hard on him but he wasted my time and tied up my funds; there are other suppliers out there without these complications.
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