I wonder if the hinges curl because they are exposed to humidity when the bags are opened, or if absent any pressure to keep them flat, they curl.
I only remove part of the hinges from the bag and then try to seal the bag tightly and keep it pressed flat.
The hinges that are to be used are kept in an airtight container. The ones that curl are uncurled by running my thumbnail along the back opposite to the direction of the curl. This straightens them out and they separate easier.
Am using Prinz hinges at the moment.
These never curl up into balls . . .
After the first package of stamp hinges I bought in 20 years curled up into a mouse nest, I decided I would use these instead.
Unfortunately, I have a few packs of Showgards that have wrinkled. I am not sure where I got them. It could have been a storage issue but saw reports others experienced this too.
I have yet to find ANY currently produced stamp hinges that were not already curled when first opening the package.
I just assume this is the 'nature of the beast' with today's offerings.
The best of the best was Dennison - always laid flat, no matter how new or old.
I will say this, though - in my experience, when you lick and stick them they do lay flat as intended.
But I do grant you, it can be troublesome to 'untangle' them out of the package!
I currently use Supersafe brand, but have tried numerous others and all appear to be of similar "quality".
Supersafe, they do lay down flat after use, they are also somewhat peelable if only a very small amount of moisture is applied.I just dump them into a container and deal with the curling, it does not seem to matter whether they are in the package or not.I am in Arizona so humidity for me is not an issue.
You would think that some entity would take an old Dennison hinge and reverse engineer it for today's market... they reverse engineer generic drugs.. how difficult could a friggin hinge be?
"I have been transferring part of my collection into a Minus Global reprint album. I pretty much have to use hinges due to the crowded pages in this publication.
"
"Can someone suggest a hinge that doesn't curl up into little balls when in storage? That seems to be what happens to my Supersafe brand hinges
"
I only use and recommend Stanley Gibbons hinges. Keep in a cool, dark, place, and take what you need.
I gave up on them and use mounts.
I use SO few hinges anymore that a single packet of 1000 is going to last me the rest of my life.
The packet I have is FOLD-O-HINGE, Mfg. by HAROLD COHN & CO., Chicago. The trademark date on the package is 1955. "The Improved Stamp Hinge" It's still about half full.
Anyway, I have zero problems with curling with this brand. And, they're peelable. (I usually don't attempt to peel hinges anyway, I just soak them off.)
-Paul
"You would think that some entity would take an old Dennison hinge and reverse engineer it for today's market... they reverse engineer generic drugs.. how difficult could a friggin hinge be?"
The APS had an analysis done on stamps hinges. They had to stop at this point as to do further chemical analysis was going to cost too much. Here is a very high level summary on the findings that some may find interesting.
https://stamps.org/userfiles/file/pcpm/subsidiary_19.pdf
It is well established that it was not the equipment; the original Dennison equipment has been bought and sold several times and no one could make a good hinge on it. Materials and chemistry is probably not the issue since many folks have done analysis and nothing really special about the paper or adhesive was ever found. Adhesives for the time period are also well known and have been tested extensively.
So my theory is that Dennison understood and used a manufacturing process which no one else has yet figured out. They may have applied ‘layers’ of adhesive. Or if you examine a good Dennison hinge closely you will also note that the adhesive is actually textured. It could be that Dennison figured out that texturing the adhesive allowed the hinge to release easier.
Don
I agree with you, Don. I have read a longer version of the APS report and it verifies what you say.
"It is well established that it was not the equipment"
I have been trough 3 packages with old hinges of various curls and makes. Now I was at the last of Davo stamp hinges and opened a ned Fasto package from Leuchtturm. Never seen this before, not one curled hinge?
Will be interesting to see how they keep the straightness over time.
How well do they remove from a stamp (stamps with and without gum)?
Hi everyone;
I've heard two plausible theories on why they (Dennison) can no longer be made. The first one is the one that I believe is spot on.
Theory 1)
The original Dennison hinges were made from horse hoof glue, which is not considered "food safe" and so the formula, had to be changed. I find this theory the most believable because of the excess numbers of graduates from law schools results in too many lawyers with nothing to do other than screwing everything up they can get their hands on. This has happened in many other areas as well, including a dysfunctional government. The lawyers were instrumental in having the formula changed to make them food safe.
Theory 2)
the original hinges were aged for many months to make them more peelable. However when collectors caught on to how good they were, sales soared, until they were not able to keep up and still age them properly. I think this is very believable, as the older Dennison hinges were larger, not folded and had rounded corners. The newer ones produced just before they stopped making them were folded, had square corners, and did not peel as well, but were good at holding larger stamps. The newer ones peeled if you were deliberately slow and patient. the original ones would peel off quickly with a quick pull. I found that the older ones tended to come off too easily is you did not turn the pages carefully and they caught on another stamp.
The tendency of the older ones to peel too easily, created a good market for glassine and acetate interleaves, between pages.
Just some ideas I heard several years ago on a forum, but can't remember where tho...
Still just sortin'....
TuskenRaider
"How well do they remove from a stamp (stamps with and without gum)?"
never had any problems with Prinz hinges.. I buy them from the Brooklyn Gallery of coins and stamps..on line.
I have been using lindner without much trouble. They don't curl up on storage (I live in the tropics) guess the key is to moisten very lightly before mounting.
All hinges are now manufactured by Prinz pub Germany and sold under different brands. We can only long for the 'best hinges ever made'. Those are gone!
Fasto is good for me
A couple of decades ago I bought a 10,000 bag of Dennison in bulk that I haven't dipped in to yet. They are just in a plain plastic bag, not sealed, just folded over shut at the top. About the top 10% of them have curled, but not so badly as to become tangled up. Still absolutely usable. I live in the desert, very dry climate. I think my vote is going to dry climate causing the curling.... although I don't know about the newer brand(s).
A few years ago I started to panic when I got down to my last half pack of real Dennison hinges. I went about ordering as many different types of hinges that I could find and found none that I considered useful. I had heard that some collectors were using 3M 811 removable Magic Tape with great success. I've always had the highest respect for 3M adhesives so I thought I'd give it a go. I have found that it is superior even to Dennison's in removal and residue left behind, although there is a slight tackiness left behind that can be rubbed off. Even removing the tape from NH stamps results in barely perceptible or no traces of the stamp being hinged. The tape comes in a roll like regular Scotch tape and can be mounted in a 3M dispenser which makes cutting hinge size pieces easy. One 1/2" roll yields about 1600 hinges at around $5.00 a roll.
Mounts are of course superior to hinges and for those collectors of only a country or two might do well to use them. How ever any semi serious WW collector will find using mounts on everything will be cost prohibitive and very time consuming.
Mitch, how long have you been using the 'magic tape"? I wonder if time may reveal their long term impact. Any chemists here to comment on the chemical composition in the tapes?
save money and time ... use commercial artists' rubber cement ... and thinner
I'd like to echo rjan's questions on the Magic Tape. Would like to hear more about this.
A question to the peanut gallery...
I understand how nice the old Dennison hinges were.
Unless people are hinging mint stamps, what is the big deal if other hinges don't peel off? A while back I got a big bag of used stamps as part of a lot. Lots of them had the hinges still attached like someone raided an old album.
I noticed that they didn't want to peel off easy so I dumped the entire lot in water and soaked them off. No issues, all came off nice and clean.
Wow, lots of experiments going on. It should be noted that these methods are not time tested nor does anyone know if they will eventually have bad effects until enough time has passed and enough people have tried it under various environmental situations.
For folks that are using non-traditional hinging methods I have two somewhat rhetorical questions…
1. Will you note the unusual mounting method when you one day go to sell your collections?
2. If so, are your expectations that this will not hurt the resale value?
Don
"save money and time ... use commercial artists' rubber cement ... and thinner"
"NOOOOOOOO! Rubber cement will break down and leave big oily stains. Back when I was young my father suggested using rubber cement. I can scan and post the damage to both stamps and album pages!!
"
I have only been using the 3M tape for about 3 years, Of course the passage of time is the only way to tell if it will have adverse affects on stamps. However I am convinced that it is safe and much better than any hinges I know of. Ralph who has been using them more than I have swears by them also. I use mounts on all better stamps and frankly there are few cheaper stamps I need to worry about mounting with the tape. The amount of stamps I have mounted with the tape will always be a very small percentage of stamps I have mounted. I will always reuse hinges if they are secured to the stamp and have sufficient gum to adhere to page. This cuts down on the possibility of damaging the stamp saves on hinges and is faster..
""NOOOOOOOO! Rubber cement will break down and leave big oily stains. Back when I was young my father suggested using rubber cement. I can scan and post the damage to both stamps and album pages!!
"
I'm pretty sure that was sarcasm as a response to using 3M tape (at least I hope so)."
"I'm pretty sure that was sarcasm as a response to using 3M tape (at least I hope so)"
"That's the way I read it as well. I had a giggle."
When I first read Ralph's posts about Scotch 811 I thought I'd get some. I couldn't find 811, but found Scotch 612, which I understand is the same thing only different. I believe it uses the same adhesive.
Anyway, on the package it says "photo safe," and also that it meets ISO Standard 18916, which, as far as I can tell, means it won't react with any gels, dyes, inks, toner, and what not used in the formation of images. It also states explicitly that it does not mean the material is archival, nor does it apply to physical intetactions, including adhesive migration. Here is a summary of the standard from the ISO web page:
ISO 18916:2007 specifies the procedure for the photographic activity and dye coupler reactivity tests.
ISO 18916:2007 is applicable to general photographic enclosure materials such as paper, tissue, cardboard, mat board and plastics. It is also applicable to components of photographic enclosure materials such as adhesives, inks, paints, labels, and tape.
ISO 18916:2007 evaluates possible chemical interactions between enclosures with processed silver-gelatin, colour (dye-gelatin), inkjet prints made with dye-based and pigment-based inks, thermal dye diffusion transfer (“dye sub”) prints, digitally printed dye-diffusion-transfer prints, liquid- and dry-toner xerographic prints, liquid-toner electrostatic prints, and diazo images after long-term storage. It does not pertain to harmful physical interactions such as blocking (sticking together), dye bleed, adhesive migration, or plasticizer exudation. It does not pertain to important criteria of enclosures such as their inherent chemical stability, physical integrity, and workmanship. Passing the photographic activity test (PAT) does not indicate that a material is archival. This term has no clear definition and is not used in this standard. Photo-safe, storage enclosures and their components are covered in ISO 18902, which includes passing the criteria of the photographic activity test.
If a particular brand of commercially made enclosure materials is found to be safe for long-term storage purposes, there is no assurance that subsequent batches will contain the same ingredients of the same purity, chemical inertness, concentrations, or sound and sturdy construction. For this reason, materials are tested annually or upon each formulation or supplier change. For materials which are manufactured in a variety of colours, such as papers and inks, each colour is evaluated and reported separately.https://www.iso.org/standard/31940.html
So I just experimented with "Supersafe". If I wanted a permanent hinge, then it would be perfect, but it badly pulled away the paper on both the stamp and the page when I tried removing it after it had completely dried.
Any other experiences with Supersafe?
I understand that all hinges are made by the same company now anyway, so is this what we've got now?
I have been using Fold-O-Hinge for many years. I still have several packs unopened. I'm not sure where or when I bought them but it was probably over twenty years ago. My only use for them at the moment is to mount my used Iceland collection. I was replacing some used stamps stamps from that collection today and mounting MNH in Scott mounts. The hinges peeled very easy, if I was more thrifty I would have saved them for reuse.
I use Scott mounts, Hegner or Vario stock sheets for all my other stamp mounting needs.
Vince
Thanks Vinman -- I'm looking for something that we can get currently these days. I know the Dennison's and Fold-O-Hinges are no longer available except for $20 per pack on ebay. I can't do mounts, as I need a humongous volume -- looking for a decent hinge and agreeing with the title of this post - Hinges - They Drive Me Nuts is appropriate.
If you buy quality vintage hinges you can simply cut them in half and get the cost down to $0.01 each. (Half hinges work just fine for all but the largest stamps.) Some people only use half hinges on stamps which are catalog value of $0.20 or less and full hinges on stamps that are worth more.
Don
I like that idea - had not thought of cutting them in half. I think I'll start with that. But guys, eventually these vintage packs on ebay are all going to run out as well. Then what? Sigh....
I was a visitor at a stamp club some time back. A younger guy had come to the meeting for advise on a collection he found in an old house he had purchased.
The album was a typical USA one, and the collection went to maybe 1980. And that collector had neatly placed every stamp from the late 1930s to 1980 in mounts. The group of old collectors flipped through the album and scoffed that it was worth nothing and the guy should just use it all for postage. Then a pack of old hinges fell out of the album. One of these guys picked them up and asked if he could have them. The owner shrugged and said "Yea sure."
I just stood back and chuckled to myself that while discouraging this guy from ever collecting stamps, they managed to steal the pack of ancient hinges!
I found in my old stash some unused packs of Prinz, Gibbons, and Harris brand hinges. All vintage. Tested them all, just out of curiosity. All awful. Every single one tore the paper off the stamp and the test album page.
Eventually I guess it will come down to, mounts for anything you care about and can't replace, which is a lot of mounts in my opinion.
Maybe we could get a petition going and send it to the one remaining manufacturer.
I've using hinges for the last 50 years of stamp collecting and still intend to use Dennison hinges for my stamps. However hinges are a real pain when mounting souvenir sheets and large groups of stamps.
I've found 2 method which works very well. The first method uses Lineco Archive Polyester Framers Corner, they're like the old fashion photo corners but they're clear and larger than photo corners. You use these like photo corner but you have to be very careful because the corner are self stick and very sticky. I would recommend a tongs and very steady hand. Once you have the stamps mounted, the mounts are almost invisible. They cost about $10 on Amazon and there are 240 corners mounted on backer strips. They are acid-free like all archive products. Having used them for about 5yrs, there's no coloring of the paper nor stamps. I recommend this product.
The second method I use mainly today, is a 2 way glue pen from a company called Zig Memory System. It's made in Japan for archive purposes. The pen lays down a line of glue that comes out blue but turns clear as it dries (5 secs). If you put a stamp on the glue line when it's wet (light blue) it will stick more than when it turns clear. The stamp can be removed easy when dry, no hinge marks even on mint stamps, so your stamp collection will not depreciate in value. I mount all of my souvenir sheets and large groups/strips of stamps with this glue. After 5+ years, I have not seen any coloration or stains from this glue, stamps still come off the page easily. The glue is acid free and Xylene free also. I brought the pens on Amazon for about $8 each and they last a long time. This is my preferred method for mounting souvenir sheets and long strips of stamps, etc. where it would be difficult with hinges or other mounts.
A few words of warning. DO NOT use rubber cement under any conditions, the cement yellows and turns brown on anything that the glue touches in time, I use to do paste ups for art work, after 5 years the rubber cement has destroyed the paper and the things it was suppose to hold just falls off.
There are other glue options that are acid free also, one product uses tiny dots of rubber like cement that goes on to paper like 'Liquid Paper' dispenser, these dots are very hard to off the stamps of you have to move your stamps. I tried these products-not very happy.
BTW, I have not mount many stamps with the glue pen YET, still working with hinges, but it seems like it will work fine.
Let me know if you would more info on my experience with these products.
Thanks for your input!
The glue pen sounds intriguing. Will the line of glue be able to be "rubbed" off if you want to remove it? Since it removes from the stamp? Would like to hear more about this.
Agreed on Dennison only - I'm just saying, these are already $20 - $25 a pack on ebay and eventually there will be NO MORE. The photo-mount-type corners are great for the larger items, but not for individual stamps, which is my main concern.
When using the glue pen, you apply it to the page not the stamp. There's no glue on the stamp The glue does not rub off on the page. The stamp peels off easily.
If you would like a sample of the glue pen and the poly corner, just send me your physical address and I'll mail you a page with some stamps.
I don't mind paying $20+ for the best hinges, since the other hinges are pretty bad.
I think I'll do a comparison of hinges and their peelability. I started this a while back but never completed the comparison.
BTW I don't like using plastic mounts since cost so much more and adds a lot thickness and weight to my collection. I collection Worldwide except USA and I have about 150 volumes of Steiner albums. I see a lot of collections on Ebay and the ones I brought, the ones with mounts are rarely neat and clean, most look like an after thought.
I am intrigued by the glue pen and think I may order one of those just to give it a try. While I can spring for the occasional $20 pack of Dennison's online, my original concern is still the same - one of these days there will be no more. Surely sooner rather than later?
I hope folks realize that if they use ‘alternative’ mounting methods and materials that they have an obligation to disclose this fact whenever they go to sell their stamps. And disclosing ‘alternative’ mounting methods at time of disposition will in all likelihood result in a lower value. Ask yourself, would you be willing to purchase an entire collection at full market value if it were mounted with experimental methods?
Even if you only mount the ‘cheap’ stamps with these ‘alternative’ methods it can cast a shadow over the entire collection when it is time to disposition it.
Stamporama defines mounting terms to ensure that sellers and buyers are on the same page.
"Having a common language as we list and bid on lots will go a long way towards improving our auctions and avoiding potential disappointments and disputes between buyers and sellers."
I don't recall seeing the following comment here in this thread;
No - most hinges do not peel off of stamps;
Yes - Dennison hinges do;
I guess my first thought was, why are you trying to peel them off dry??
Isn't soaking usually the norm when we buy/acquire stamps on pages?
I have yet to come across a soaked stamp that did not release the hinge/remnant.
Or are you trying to remove just one or two from your own album?
Again, I might have missed this part of the conversation - if so, my apologies.
" ...guess my first thought was, why are you trying to peel them off dry??
Isn't soaking usually the norm when we buy/acquire stamps on pages?...
"
"I guess my first thought was, why are you trying to peel them off dry??
Isn't soaking usually the norm when we buy/acquire stamps on pages?
I have yet to come across a soaked stamp that did not release the hinge/remnant.
"
""Current Score... Don 1 - Cancer 0""
Hi Tom!
You can use ‘used’ mounts but that assumes that a person has a big collection of used mounts. And using various adhesives on the mounts could also easily end up damaging your stamps since some adhesives could outgas over time (especially if the collector has also used sheet protectors and enclosed the air surrounding the stamp page).
Mounting low value mint stamps in new mounts is simply not cost effective. The math for a modern stamp collector is a bit scary; multiply the number of stamps issued by a single country from 1950 to date by the mount cost, add the cost of the pages and binder, and you end up with a cost that far exceeds what you will ever be able to get out of your investment before you even buy the first stamp. It reminds me of a person who pours $20,000 into a car restoration when the most they will ever get out of the car is $9,000.
Not sure how other folks feel but I hate buying collections with modern hinges or used mounts, it often makes for a huge amount of work trying to deal with them. I am more than willing to pay a premium for collections with original Dennison hinges or properly mounted.
Don
Reopening this to ask about Stanley Gibbons hinges. Someone earlier swore by them. I used some may years ago, back in the early 90's. I swore them off because they stuck like iron and left adhesions on the backs of my stamps. Anyone with recent experience to counter this?
I am flying to London next week and plan to stop at the Strand shop. Wonder if I could pick up a pack and see..
I mount almost all stamps in mounts used or not. I figure the average mount cost is 3¢ so often as much or more than the real value of the stamps. The cost does not bother me. I actually think I am a good custodian of these low value artifacts.
Some spend their money on disposable activities (watching a movie, playing a round of golf, driving all over the place, eating out all the time) and have nothing really tangible as a result except memories.
For me, stamp collecting is cheap entertainment and gives sense of accomplishment. To each his or her own.
"I mount almost all stamps in mounts used or not."
Any input about the Gibbons hinges?
No information on Stanley Gibbons hinges but the SuperSafe hinges definitely have too much "stick-em" plus they curl badly when moistened so you have to flatten them on the page's surface manually which requires a significant amount of dexterity. They are almost but not completely peelable but nothing like as nice as older Dennison hinges which seem to float off the page and the stamp with just a bit of tension pulling on the stamp and/or hinge to get them to release.
The sound alike and almost spell alike Dennisen hinges have way too much "stick-em" and are almost unpeelable from paper or from stamps without damaging both and definitely NOT recommended.
Like many others I keep searching for a good quality, modern hinge.
The Supersafe ones drove me to all mounts. However, I did find that by using a small applicator (like a q-tip or mascara brush) you can control the moisture to make them easier to remove with destroying the page or stamp. It is all about putting a small dab on the hinge. It needs to cure multiple days before it will pop off easily with at 80% success rate.
I did a test with Gibbons hinges very recently. They do NOT peel off. I would not recommend them for anything you want to peel off dry later on. They would probably soak off.
Getting back on topic for once; I tried several ways
to keep hinges uncurled.
Here is a news flash, hinges peel because they can peel.
The trick is to not let them get away with that.
.
So many years ago that I do not recall what it was,
possibly a specially thick container that was used
to mail some photos came in the mail. I trimmed it
to be just a bit wider than the envelope of hinges
and just a tiny bit shorter. The then open long side
was taped carefully creating a special stiff hinge
envelope holder.
It can hold three hinge envelopes with no problem.
Other envelopes, I like to purchase ten or fifteen '
at a time, are stored beneath a heavy book about
the intricacies of the Battle of Gettysburg,
so they remain flat until I need to refill my
special hinge envelope holder.
Being a bit less than 1/8th inch shorter than
the hinge envelopes, allows me to pull one envelope
out at a time, open it, and dump the few dozen hinges
I need right then that I am about to use into a special
holder that you will laugh about.
I only use what I think I need then and restore
the envelope into the holder which is stiff enough
to prevent the little buggers from curling.
The "special" holder is the very wide plastic cap
from a emptied squat peanut butter jar,
cleaned thoroughly of course. That keeps them
at hand and in place, to be used as needed.
Finally should the phone ring or something else happen,
stopping the stamp mounting process, I have a second cap
from a slightly smaller jar, also cleaned appropriately,
that just fits within the larger cap loosely. I can place
one within the other and walk, or roll, away and the
open hinges cannot curl then either. That keeps the opened
hinges flat till I have time to resume the mounting process.
Problem solved many years ago.
Oh yes, I selected bright red caps to use so I can find them
on my desk without calling Mr. Keen, "Tracer of Lost Persons,"
for help.
I have been transferring part of my collection into a Minus Global reprint album. I pretty much have to use hinges due to the crowded pages in this publication.
Can someone suggest a hinge that doesn't curl up into little balls when in storage? That seems to be what happens to my Supersafe brand hinges. I wind up throwing away half of them. I try to use old vintage ones on better stamps, those are getting harder to locate. I do have several pack of old non folded ones. I have to crease them when applying to the stamp. Most of those stamps wind up sticking way out from the page. I have to redo them often.
I know there aren't any really good ones out there. Can someone suggest a brand that at least is less bad, preferably that lies flat against a page and will not turn out to be a bag of curled and mis-cut ones?
re: Hinges, They Drive Me Nuts
I wonder if the hinges curl because they are exposed to humidity when the bags are opened, or if absent any pressure to keep them flat, they curl.
I only remove part of the hinges from the bag and then try to seal the bag tightly and keep it pressed flat.
The hinges that are to be used are kept in an airtight container. The ones that curl are uncurled by running my thumbnail along the back opposite to the direction of the curl. This straightens them out and they separate easier.
Am using Prinz hinges at the moment.
re: Hinges, They Drive Me Nuts
These never curl up into balls . . .
After the first package of stamp hinges I bought in 20 years curled up into a mouse nest, I decided I would use these instead.
re: Hinges, They Drive Me Nuts
Unfortunately, I have a few packs of Showgards that have wrinkled. I am not sure where I got them. It could have been a storage issue but saw reports others experienced this too.
re: Hinges, They Drive Me Nuts
I have yet to find ANY currently produced stamp hinges that were not already curled when first opening the package.
I just assume this is the 'nature of the beast' with today's offerings.
The best of the best was Dennison - always laid flat, no matter how new or old.
I will say this, though - in my experience, when you lick and stick them they do lay flat as intended.
But I do grant you, it can be troublesome to 'untangle' them out of the package!
I currently use Supersafe brand, but have tried numerous others and all appear to be of similar "quality".
re: Hinges, They Drive Me Nuts
Supersafe, they do lay down flat after use, they are also somewhat peelable if only a very small amount of moisture is applied.I just dump them into a container and deal with the curling, it does not seem to matter whether they are in the package or not.I am in Arizona so humidity for me is not an issue.
re: Hinges, They Drive Me Nuts
You would think that some entity would take an old Dennison hinge and reverse engineer it for today's market... they reverse engineer generic drugs.. how difficult could a friggin hinge be?
re: Hinges, They Drive Me Nuts
"I have been transferring part of my collection into a Minus Global reprint album. I pretty much have to use hinges due to the crowded pages in this publication.
"
"Can someone suggest a hinge that doesn't curl up into little balls when in storage? That seems to be what happens to my Supersafe brand hinges
"
re: Hinges, They Drive Me Nuts
I only use and recommend Stanley Gibbons hinges. Keep in a cool, dark, place, and take what you need.
re: Hinges, They Drive Me Nuts
I gave up on them and use mounts.
re: Hinges, They Drive Me Nuts
I use SO few hinges anymore that a single packet of 1000 is going to last me the rest of my life.
The packet I have is FOLD-O-HINGE, Mfg. by HAROLD COHN & CO., Chicago. The trademark date on the package is 1955. "The Improved Stamp Hinge" It's still about half full.
Anyway, I have zero problems with curling with this brand. And, they're peelable. (I usually don't attempt to peel hinges anyway, I just soak them off.)
-Paul
re: Hinges, They Drive Me Nuts
"You would think that some entity would take an old Dennison hinge and reverse engineer it for today's market... they reverse engineer generic drugs.. how difficult could a friggin hinge be?"
re: Hinges, They Drive Me Nuts
The APS had an analysis done on stamps hinges. They had to stop at this point as to do further chemical analysis was going to cost too much. Here is a very high level summary on the findings that some may find interesting.
https://stamps.org/userfiles/file/pcpm/subsidiary_19.pdf
re: Hinges, They Drive Me Nuts
It is well established that it was not the equipment; the original Dennison equipment has been bought and sold several times and no one could make a good hinge on it. Materials and chemistry is probably not the issue since many folks have done analysis and nothing really special about the paper or adhesive was ever found. Adhesives for the time period are also well known and have been tested extensively.
So my theory is that Dennison understood and used a manufacturing process which no one else has yet figured out. They may have applied ‘layers’ of adhesive. Or if you examine a good Dennison hinge closely you will also note that the adhesive is actually textured. It could be that Dennison figured out that texturing the adhesive allowed the hinge to release easier.
Don
re: Hinges, They Drive Me Nuts
I agree with you, Don. I have read a longer version of the APS report and it verifies what you say.
"It is well established that it was not the equipment"
re: Hinges, They Drive Me Nuts
I have been trough 3 packages with old hinges of various curls and makes. Now I was at the last of Davo stamp hinges and opened a ned Fasto package from Leuchtturm. Never seen this before, not one curled hinge?
Will be interesting to see how they keep the straightness over time.
re: Hinges, They Drive Me Nuts
How well do they remove from a stamp (stamps with and without gum)?
re: Hinges, They Drive Me Nuts
Hi everyone;
I've heard two plausible theories on why they (Dennison) can no longer be made. The first one is the one that I believe is spot on.
Theory 1)
The original Dennison hinges were made from horse hoof glue, which is not considered "food safe" and so the formula, had to be changed. I find this theory the most believable because of the excess numbers of graduates from law schools results in too many lawyers with nothing to do other than screwing everything up they can get their hands on. This has happened in many other areas as well, including a dysfunctional government. The lawyers were instrumental in having the formula changed to make them food safe.
Theory 2)
the original hinges were aged for many months to make them more peelable. However when collectors caught on to how good they were, sales soared, until they were not able to keep up and still age them properly. I think this is very believable, as the older Dennison hinges were larger, not folded and had rounded corners. The newer ones produced just before they stopped making them were folded, had square corners, and did not peel as well, but were good at holding larger stamps. The newer ones peeled if you were deliberately slow and patient. the original ones would peel off quickly with a quick pull. I found that the older ones tended to come off too easily is you did not turn the pages carefully and they caught on another stamp.
The tendency of the older ones to peel too easily, created a good market for glassine and acetate interleaves, between pages.
Just some ideas I heard several years ago on a forum, but can't remember where tho...
Still just sortin'....
TuskenRaider
re: Hinges, They Drive Me Nuts
"How well do they remove from a stamp (stamps with and without gum)?"
re: Hinges, They Drive Me Nuts
never had any problems with Prinz hinges.. I buy them from the Brooklyn Gallery of coins and stamps..on line.
re: Hinges, They Drive Me Nuts
I have been using lindner without much trouble. They don't curl up on storage (I live in the tropics) guess the key is to moisten very lightly before mounting.
re: Hinges, They Drive Me Nuts
re: Hinges, They Drive Me Nuts
All hinges are now manufactured by Prinz pub Germany and sold under different brands. We can only long for the 'best hinges ever made'. Those are gone!
re: Hinges, They Drive Me Nuts
Fasto is good for me
re: Hinges, They Drive Me Nuts
A couple of decades ago I bought a 10,000 bag of Dennison in bulk that I haven't dipped in to yet. They are just in a plain plastic bag, not sealed, just folded over shut at the top. About the top 10% of them have curled, but not so badly as to become tangled up. Still absolutely usable. I live in the desert, very dry climate. I think my vote is going to dry climate causing the curling.... although I don't know about the newer brand(s).
re: Hinges, They Drive Me Nuts
A few years ago I started to panic when I got down to my last half pack of real Dennison hinges. I went about ordering as many different types of hinges that I could find and found none that I considered useful. I had heard that some collectors were using 3M 811 removable Magic Tape with great success. I've always had the highest respect for 3M adhesives so I thought I'd give it a go. I have found that it is superior even to Dennison's in removal and residue left behind, although there is a slight tackiness left behind that can be rubbed off. Even removing the tape from NH stamps results in barely perceptible or no traces of the stamp being hinged. The tape comes in a roll like regular Scotch tape and can be mounted in a 3M dispenser which makes cutting hinge size pieces easy. One 1/2" roll yields about 1600 hinges at around $5.00 a roll.
Mounts are of course superior to hinges and for those collectors of only a country or two might do well to use them. How ever any semi serious WW collector will find using mounts on everything will be cost prohibitive and very time consuming.
re: Hinges, They Drive Me Nuts
Mitch, how long have you been using the 'magic tape"? I wonder if time may reveal their long term impact. Any chemists here to comment on the chemical composition in the tapes?
re: Hinges, They Drive Me Nuts
save money and time ... use commercial artists' rubber cement ... and thinner
re: Hinges, They Drive Me Nuts
I'd like to echo rjan's questions on the Magic Tape. Would like to hear more about this.
re: Hinges, They Drive Me Nuts
A question to the peanut gallery...
I understand how nice the old Dennison hinges were.
Unless people are hinging mint stamps, what is the big deal if other hinges don't peel off? A while back I got a big bag of used stamps as part of a lot. Lots of them had the hinges still attached like someone raided an old album.
I noticed that they didn't want to peel off easy so I dumped the entire lot in water and soaked them off. No issues, all came off nice and clean.
re: Hinges, They Drive Me Nuts
Wow, lots of experiments going on. It should be noted that these methods are not time tested nor does anyone know if they will eventually have bad effects until enough time has passed and enough people have tried it under various environmental situations.
For folks that are using non-traditional hinging methods I have two somewhat rhetorical questions…
1. Will you note the unusual mounting method when you one day go to sell your collections?
2. If so, are your expectations that this will not hurt the resale value?
Don
re: Hinges, They Drive Me Nuts
"save money and time ... use commercial artists' rubber cement ... and thinner"
re: Hinges, They Drive Me Nuts
"NOOOOOOOO! Rubber cement will break down and leave big oily stains. Back when I was young my father suggested using rubber cement. I can scan and post the damage to both stamps and album pages!!
"
re: Hinges, They Drive Me Nuts
I have only been using the 3M tape for about 3 years, Of course the passage of time is the only way to tell if it will have adverse affects on stamps. However I am convinced that it is safe and much better than any hinges I know of. Ralph who has been using them more than I have swears by them also. I use mounts on all better stamps and frankly there are few cheaper stamps I need to worry about mounting with the tape. The amount of stamps I have mounted with the tape will always be a very small percentage of stamps I have mounted. I will always reuse hinges if they are secured to the stamp and have sufficient gum to adhere to page. This cuts down on the possibility of damaging the stamp saves on hinges and is faster..
re: Hinges, They Drive Me Nuts
""NOOOOOOOO! Rubber cement will break down and leave big oily stains. Back when I was young my father suggested using rubber cement. I can scan and post the damage to both stamps and album pages!!
"
I'm pretty sure that was sarcasm as a response to using 3M tape (at least I hope so)."
re: Hinges, They Drive Me Nuts
"I'm pretty sure that was sarcasm as a response to using 3M tape (at least I hope so)"
"That's the way I read it as well. I had a giggle."
re: Hinges, They Drive Me Nuts
When I first read Ralph's posts about Scotch 811 I thought I'd get some. I couldn't find 811, but found Scotch 612, which I understand is the same thing only different. I believe it uses the same adhesive.
Anyway, on the package it says "photo safe," and also that it meets ISO Standard 18916, which, as far as I can tell, means it won't react with any gels, dyes, inks, toner, and what not used in the formation of images. It also states explicitly that it does not mean the material is archival, nor does it apply to physical intetactions, including adhesive migration. Here is a summary of the standard from the ISO web page:
ISO 18916:2007 specifies the procedure for the photographic activity and dye coupler reactivity tests.
ISO 18916:2007 is applicable to general photographic enclosure materials such as paper, tissue, cardboard, mat board and plastics. It is also applicable to components of photographic enclosure materials such as adhesives, inks, paints, labels, and tape.
ISO 18916:2007 evaluates possible chemical interactions between enclosures with processed silver-gelatin, colour (dye-gelatin), inkjet prints made with dye-based and pigment-based inks, thermal dye diffusion transfer (“dye sub”) prints, digitally printed dye-diffusion-transfer prints, liquid- and dry-toner xerographic prints, liquid-toner electrostatic prints, and diazo images after long-term storage. It does not pertain to harmful physical interactions such as blocking (sticking together), dye bleed, adhesive migration, or plasticizer exudation. It does not pertain to important criteria of enclosures such as their inherent chemical stability, physical integrity, and workmanship. Passing the photographic activity test (PAT) does not indicate that a material is archival. This term has no clear definition and is not used in this standard. Photo-safe, storage enclosures and their components are covered in ISO 18902, which includes passing the criteria of the photographic activity test.
If a particular brand of commercially made enclosure materials is found to be safe for long-term storage purposes, there is no assurance that subsequent batches will contain the same ingredients of the same purity, chemical inertness, concentrations, or sound and sturdy construction. For this reason, materials are tested annually or upon each formulation or supplier change. For materials which are manufactured in a variety of colours, such as papers and inks, each colour is evaluated and reported separately.https://www.iso.org/standard/31940.html
re: Hinges, They Drive Me Nuts
So I just experimented with "Supersafe". If I wanted a permanent hinge, then it would be perfect, but it badly pulled away the paper on both the stamp and the page when I tried removing it after it had completely dried.
Any other experiences with Supersafe?
I understand that all hinges are made by the same company now anyway, so is this what we've got now?
re: Hinges, They Drive Me Nuts
I have been using Fold-O-Hinge for many years. I still have several packs unopened. I'm not sure where or when I bought them but it was probably over twenty years ago. My only use for them at the moment is to mount my used Iceland collection. I was replacing some used stamps stamps from that collection today and mounting MNH in Scott mounts. The hinges peeled very easy, if I was more thrifty I would have saved them for reuse.
I use Scott mounts, Hegner or Vario stock sheets for all my other stamp mounting needs.
Vince
re: Hinges, They Drive Me Nuts
Thanks Vinman -- I'm looking for something that we can get currently these days. I know the Dennison's and Fold-O-Hinges are no longer available except for $20 per pack on ebay. I can't do mounts, as I need a humongous volume -- looking for a decent hinge and agreeing with the title of this post - Hinges - They Drive Me Nuts is appropriate.
re: Hinges, They Drive Me Nuts
If you buy quality vintage hinges you can simply cut them in half and get the cost down to $0.01 each. (Half hinges work just fine for all but the largest stamps.) Some people only use half hinges on stamps which are catalog value of $0.20 or less and full hinges on stamps that are worth more.
Don
re: Hinges, They Drive Me Nuts
I like that idea - had not thought of cutting them in half. I think I'll start with that. But guys, eventually these vintage packs on ebay are all going to run out as well. Then what? Sigh....
re: Hinges, They Drive Me Nuts
I was a visitor at a stamp club some time back. A younger guy had come to the meeting for advise on a collection he found in an old house he had purchased.
The album was a typical USA one, and the collection went to maybe 1980. And that collector had neatly placed every stamp from the late 1930s to 1980 in mounts. The group of old collectors flipped through the album and scoffed that it was worth nothing and the guy should just use it all for postage. Then a pack of old hinges fell out of the album. One of these guys picked them up and asked if he could have them. The owner shrugged and said "Yea sure."
I just stood back and chuckled to myself that while discouraging this guy from ever collecting stamps, they managed to steal the pack of ancient hinges!
re: Hinges, They Drive Me Nuts
I found in my old stash some unused packs of Prinz, Gibbons, and Harris brand hinges. All vintage. Tested them all, just out of curiosity. All awful. Every single one tore the paper off the stamp and the test album page.
Eventually I guess it will come down to, mounts for anything you care about and can't replace, which is a lot of mounts in my opinion.
Maybe we could get a petition going and send it to the one remaining manufacturer.
re: Hinges, They Drive Me Nuts
I've using hinges for the last 50 years of stamp collecting and still intend to use Dennison hinges for my stamps. However hinges are a real pain when mounting souvenir sheets and large groups of stamps.
I've found 2 method which works very well. The first method uses Lineco Archive Polyester Framers Corner, they're like the old fashion photo corners but they're clear and larger than photo corners. You use these like photo corner but you have to be very careful because the corner are self stick and very sticky. I would recommend a tongs and very steady hand. Once you have the stamps mounted, the mounts are almost invisible. They cost about $10 on Amazon and there are 240 corners mounted on backer strips. They are acid-free like all archive products. Having used them for about 5yrs, there's no coloring of the paper nor stamps. I recommend this product.
The second method I use mainly today, is a 2 way glue pen from a company called Zig Memory System. It's made in Japan for archive purposes. The pen lays down a line of glue that comes out blue but turns clear as it dries (5 secs). If you put a stamp on the glue line when it's wet (light blue) it will stick more than when it turns clear. The stamp can be removed easy when dry, no hinge marks even on mint stamps, so your stamp collection will not depreciate in value. I mount all of my souvenir sheets and large groups/strips of stamps with this glue. After 5+ years, I have not seen any coloration or stains from this glue, stamps still come off the page easily. The glue is acid free and Xylene free also. I brought the pens on Amazon for about $8 each and they last a long time. This is my preferred method for mounting souvenir sheets and long strips of stamps, etc. where it would be difficult with hinges or other mounts.
A few words of warning. DO NOT use rubber cement under any conditions, the cement yellows and turns brown on anything that the glue touches in time, I use to do paste ups for art work, after 5 years the rubber cement has destroyed the paper and the things it was suppose to hold just falls off.
There are other glue options that are acid free also, one product uses tiny dots of rubber like cement that goes on to paper like 'Liquid Paper' dispenser, these dots are very hard to off the stamps of you have to move your stamps. I tried these products-not very happy.
BTW, I have not mount many stamps with the glue pen YET, still working with hinges, but it seems like it will work fine.
Let me know if you would more info on my experience with these products.
re: Hinges, They Drive Me Nuts
Thanks for your input!
The glue pen sounds intriguing. Will the line of glue be able to be "rubbed" off if you want to remove it? Since it removes from the stamp? Would like to hear more about this.
Agreed on Dennison only - I'm just saying, these are already $20 - $25 a pack on ebay and eventually there will be NO MORE. The photo-mount-type corners are great for the larger items, but not for individual stamps, which is my main concern.
re: Hinges, They Drive Me Nuts
When using the glue pen, you apply it to the page not the stamp. There's no glue on the stamp The glue does not rub off on the page. The stamp peels off easily.
If you would like a sample of the glue pen and the poly corner, just send me your physical address and I'll mail you a page with some stamps.
I don't mind paying $20+ for the best hinges, since the other hinges are pretty bad.
I think I'll do a comparison of hinges and their peelability. I started this a while back but never completed the comparison.
BTW I don't like using plastic mounts since cost so much more and adds a lot thickness and weight to my collection. I collection Worldwide except USA and I have about 150 volumes of Steiner albums. I see a lot of collections on Ebay and the ones I brought, the ones with mounts are rarely neat and clean, most look like an after thought.
re: Hinges, They Drive Me Nuts
I am intrigued by the glue pen and think I may order one of those just to give it a try. While I can spring for the occasional $20 pack of Dennison's online, my original concern is still the same - one of these days there will be no more. Surely sooner rather than later?
re: Hinges, They Drive Me Nuts
I hope folks realize that if they use ‘alternative’ mounting methods and materials that they have an obligation to disclose this fact whenever they go to sell their stamps. And disclosing ‘alternative’ mounting methods at time of disposition will in all likelihood result in a lower value. Ask yourself, would you be willing to purchase an entire collection at full market value if it were mounted with experimental methods?
Even if you only mount the ‘cheap’ stamps with these ‘alternative’ methods it can cast a shadow over the entire collection when it is time to disposition it.
Stamporama defines mounting terms to ensure that sellers and buyers are on the same page.
"Having a common language as we list and bid on lots will go a long way towards improving our auctions and avoiding potential disappointments and disputes between buyers and sellers."
re: Hinges, They Drive Me Nuts
I don't recall seeing the following comment here in this thread;
No - most hinges do not peel off of stamps;
Yes - Dennison hinges do;
I guess my first thought was, why are you trying to peel them off dry??
Isn't soaking usually the norm when we buy/acquire stamps on pages?
I have yet to come across a soaked stamp that did not release the hinge/remnant.
Or are you trying to remove just one or two from your own album?
Again, I might have missed this part of the conversation - if so, my apologies.
re: Hinges, They Drive Me Nuts
" ...guess my first thought was, why are you trying to peel them off dry??
Isn't soaking usually the norm when we buy/acquire stamps on pages?...
"
re: Hinges, They Drive Me Nuts
"I guess my first thought was, why are you trying to peel them off dry??
Isn't soaking usually the norm when we buy/acquire stamps on pages?
I have yet to come across a soaked stamp that did not release the hinge/remnant.
"
""Current Score... Don 1 - Cancer 0""
re: Hinges, They Drive Me Nuts
Hi Tom!
You can use ‘used’ mounts but that assumes that a person has a big collection of used mounts. And using various adhesives on the mounts could also easily end up damaging your stamps since some adhesives could outgas over time (especially if the collector has also used sheet protectors and enclosed the air surrounding the stamp page).
Mounting low value mint stamps in new mounts is simply not cost effective. The math for a modern stamp collector is a bit scary; multiply the number of stamps issued by a single country from 1950 to date by the mount cost, add the cost of the pages and binder, and you end up with a cost that far exceeds what you will ever be able to get out of your investment before you even buy the first stamp. It reminds me of a person who pours $20,000 into a car restoration when the most they will ever get out of the car is $9,000.
Not sure how other folks feel but I hate buying collections with modern hinges or used mounts, it often makes for a huge amount of work trying to deal with them. I am more than willing to pay a premium for collections with original Dennison hinges or properly mounted.
Don
re: Hinges, They Drive Me Nuts
Reopening this to ask about Stanley Gibbons hinges. Someone earlier swore by them. I used some may years ago, back in the early 90's. I swore them off because they stuck like iron and left adhesions on the backs of my stamps. Anyone with recent experience to counter this?
I am flying to London next week and plan to stop at the Strand shop. Wonder if I could pick up a pack and see..
re: Hinges, They Drive Me Nuts
I mount almost all stamps in mounts used or not. I figure the average mount cost is 3¢ so often as much or more than the real value of the stamps. The cost does not bother me. I actually think I am a good custodian of these low value artifacts.
Some spend their money on disposable activities (watching a movie, playing a round of golf, driving all over the place, eating out all the time) and have nothing really tangible as a result except memories.
For me, stamp collecting is cheap entertainment and gives sense of accomplishment. To each his or her own.
re: Hinges, They Drive Me Nuts
"I mount almost all stamps in mounts used or not."
re: Hinges, They Drive Me Nuts
Any input about the Gibbons hinges?
re: Hinges, They Drive Me Nuts
No information on Stanley Gibbons hinges but the SuperSafe hinges definitely have too much "stick-em" plus they curl badly when moistened so you have to flatten them on the page's surface manually which requires a significant amount of dexterity. They are almost but not completely peelable but nothing like as nice as older Dennison hinges which seem to float off the page and the stamp with just a bit of tension pulling on the stamp and/or hinge to get them to release.
The sound alike and almost spell alike Dennisen hinges have way too much "stick-em" and are almost unpeelable from paper or from stamps without damaging both and definitely NOT recommended.
Like many others I keep searching for a good quality, modern hinge.
re: Hinges, They Drive Me Nuts
The Supersafe ones drove me to all mounts. However, I did find that by using a small applicator (like a q-tip or mascara brush) you can control the moisture to make them easier to remove with destroying the page or stamp. It is all about putting a small dab on the hinge. It needs to cure multiple days before it will pop off easily with at 80% success rate.
re: Hinges, They Drive Me Nuts
I did a test with Gibbons hinges very recently. They do NOT peel off. I would not recommend them for anything you want to peel off dry later on. They would probably soak off.
re: Hinges, They Drive Me Nuts
Getting back on topic for once; I tried several ways
to keep hinges uncurled.
Here is a news flash, hinges peel because they can peel.
The trick is to not let them get away with that.
.
So many years ago that I do not recall what it was,
possibly a specially thick container that was used
to mail some photos came in the mail. I trimmed it
to be just a bit wider than the envelope of hinges
and just a tiny bit shorter. The then open long side
was taped carefully creating a special stiff hinge
envelope holder.
It can hold three hinge envelopes with no problem.
Other envelopes, I like to purchase ten or fifteen '
at a time, are stored beneath a heavy book about
the intricacies of the Battle of Gettysburg,
so they remain flat until I need to refill my
special hinge envelope holder.
Being a bit less than 1/8th inch shorter than
the hinge envelopes, allows me to pull one envelope
out at a time, open it, and dump the few dozen hinges
I need right then that I am about to use into a special
holder that you will laugh about.
I only use what I think I need then and restore
the envelope into the holder which is stiff enough
to prevent the little buggers from curling.
The "special" holder is the very wide plastic cap
from a emptied squat peanut butter jar,
cleaned thoroughly of course. That keeps them
at hand and in place, to be used as needed.
Finally should the phone ring or something else happen,
stopping the stamp mounting process, I have a second cap
from a slightly smaller jar, also cleaned appropriately,
that just fits within the larger cap loosely. I can place
one within the other and walk, or roll, away and the
open hinges cannot curl then either. That keeps the opened
hinges flat till I have time to resume the mounting process.
Problem solved many years ago.
Oh yes, I selected bright red caps to use so I can find them
on my desk without calling Mr. Keen, "Tracer of Lost Persons,"
for help.