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General Philatelic/Identify This? : China--can't find in Scott

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mengel419
15 Apr 2018
04:31:13pm
See picture--thanks for any help.Image Not Found

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Dambrovski
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In Arduis Fidelis
16 Apr 2018
02:37:12pm

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re: China--can't find in Scott

The chap is Dr Sun Yat-Sen who was the first President of the Republic of China.

The stamps are the 1938 issue overprinted. The picture is not clear enough to properly identify them. There seem to be dozens of different overprints to search.

The $1 was probably Scott # 344 or 347 or 359. It will have a new number as an overprint.
Hope this gives you a starting point.

Kim

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wirralps.com
mengel419
16 Apr 2018
03:36:07pm
re: China--can't find in Scott

Thanks for trying, Kim, but these are definitely not the 1938 issue. The colors don't match, the design at the sides is different, and the printing is much cruder. Here's a larger picture.Image Not Found

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mengel419
16 Apr 2018
04:13:37pm
re: China--can't find in Scott

Found it. These are Chinese Communist local issues from 1945 in the northeast China area. Not much value.

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timbres
16 Apr 2018
05:01:37pm
re: China--can't find in Scott

Where did you take your information ??? in 1945 the Manchuco (Northeast Province) was under the Japenese ocupation. The first stamps under Chinese communist for Northeast province was in 1946... according to Scott...

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pigdoc
17 Apr 2018
05:31:16am
re: China--can't find in Scott

My first impression when I glanced at these stamp images was that they were forgeries due to the poor printing quality.

Is the subject of the stamps not Sun Yat Sen?
And, wasn't the Communist cause anathema to his politics?
I believe the National Emblem at the top of the stamp, "Blue Sky, White Sun" is a wholly Nationalist (not Communist) symbol. From Wikipedia:

"The flag of the Republic of China was adopted in 1928 and is also known as "Blue Sky, White Sun, and a Wholly Red Earth". It was first used as the flag of Sun Yat-sen's government-in-exile in Tokyo."

So, if this was in fact a Communist stamp (which I doubt), it's using the political symbolism of the opposition. At the very least, I would have expected the Communists to obliterate the Nationalist symbolism with the overprints...

-Paul

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cdj1122
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Silence in the face of adversity is the father of complicity and collusion, the first cousins of conspiracy..
20 Apr 2018
10:37:47am
re: China--can't find in Scott

Near the end of WW II the situation in China was chaos.
Regular printers were engaged by the Nationalist Government
printing currency and inflation rivaled Germany's 1921-23
hyperinflation. Stamps were printed ,
especially in North China using what paper was available
including news paper rolls, and a soft paper that affected
the way stamps looked. As the Japanese surrendered and withdrew,
Communist forces under Mao moved in and looted everything .
The Communist forces frequently used unsold stamp stock
from post offices when they took control of a town,
village or province. I suspect that they also
seized printing shops with plates and used them with
the various overprints.
The image of Sun Yat Sen has nothing to do with the forces
behind the issue, as that was what was available.
Another cnsideration might be that some clever devils f
igured out how to reproduce stamp images also,
for a profit, of course.

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".... You may think you understood what you thought I said, but I'm not sure you realize that what you think you heard is not what I thought I meant. .... "
pigdoc
20 Apr 2018
11:11:57am
re: China--can't find in Scott

Thanks CJ,

I find your comments extremely interesting, and I am in full agreement. Postal service under adversity is immensely interesting to me, and you've laid out what seem to be some very plausible scenarios.

It's almost incredible that Communist leadership would set aside ideological differences to allow Sun Yat Sen's unobliterated image to adorn communications of their subjects.

And so, GPU covers documenting this would be, to me, invaluable!

Smoke 'em if you got 'em!

-Paul


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nigelc
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20 Apr 2018
08:36:09pm
re: China--can't find in Scott

SG lists these under (Communist) North China: Shanxi-Chahar-Hebei Border Area

According to SG, the top line of the overprints on the first and third stamps and of the bottom line on the second stamp means "temporary use".

The other lines mean "Shanxi-Chahar-Hebei".

Left to right the stamps are SG NC14, NC11 & NC13 issued 5th October 1945.

The basic stamps were an unissued stock from Changchun overprinted in Zhangjiakou, I guess very much as cdj1122 has described.




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