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Europe/Other : Romanian covers to Australia

 

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snowy12
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28 Feb 2018
10:15:06pm

Auctions - Approvals
I have three covers sent from Romania to Australia via the Suez Canal.They are a little tatty as they were sent in the late 1940's
Image Not Found
Image Not Found
Is there anything interesting about them or are they just run of the mill?
Brian
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amsd
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Editor, Seal News; contributor, JuicyHeads

01 Mar 2018
08:35:00am
re: Romanian covers to Australia

couple of thoughts

I doubt you'll find many Romania to NSW covers floating about from any time period.

the fact that they have Suez transit marks makes them all the better. The top cover appears to be franked with airmail stamps; i don't know if that requires air transport or can frank any service, but if so, it gives you Suez as the transit spot for both air and sea between points.

Antonio on that other canal might have some insights, too.

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smauggie
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01 Mar 2018
03:06:25pm
re: Romanian covers to Australia

You are very generous David. I do not have insights, but I can give some observations.

I have never seen Romanian covers from this time period . . . and I collect covers from all over the world.

The destination is fascinating, being a small town in NSW.

I don't see the link to the Suez Canal, though I could be missing something.

They are certainly not run-of-the-mill.

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snowy12
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01 Mar 2018
07:33:04pm

Auctions - Approvals
re: Romanian covers to Australia

Hi
I was informed that the Arabic mark was a Egyptian censor mark ?which would tie them to the Suez Canal?
Brian

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pigdoc

02 Mar 2018
11:43:49am
re: Romanian covers to Australia

This reminds me of a question I have had needling me for some time:

What was the context by which censoring of international mail was still occurring as late as the end of 1949?

Is this a holdover from WWII, or an early manifestation of the Cold War?
I've seen some of this on mail to/from Berlin in the post-WWII era, which could make sense, I guess. And I think I've seen it on some South American covers, maybe to catch German war crimes fugitives? Kind of wants to be an area of collecting for me...

And, what would the Suez Canal care about the contents of a cover destined for Australia? Was the Suez/Sinai still a British Protectorate in late 1949?
And, finally, it's strange that the censor cancel is in Arabic, if it was English authorities doing the censoring.

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pigdoc

02 Mar 2018
12:08:14pm
re: Romanian covers to Australia

(digging through collection)
Here it is:
Image Not Found

Brazil to British Zone 24b, mailed 30-Aug-47.
Received Flensburg 19-Sep-47.
Censored by the British.
That's pretty slow for airmail...

Why was it censored?

The Inter-American Treaty of Reciprocal Assistance was signed on 02-Sep-1947 in Rio de Janeiro. This was a treaty instrument consistent with the Truman Doctrine.

The sender's address on the cover does not seem to be particularly significant - it's an urban area of small storefronts that does not appear to have changed much in the last 100 years, except for the graffiti.


Do the sender's and recipient's names bear some decoding?
"Germano Rauert" = The German Rauert"?

Rosenberger seems like a Jewish name to me.

Thanks,
Paul


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amsd
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Editor, Seal News; contributor, JuicyHeads

02 Mar 2018
06:07:05pm
re: Romanian covers to Australia

PorkRX.....

Germany was occupied by the allies until 1952, at least administratively, and Berlin until its reunification.

I don't know the date at which censoring mail stopped, but guys not name Fritz with guns were in Germany for years after the war's end.

War needn't be ongoing for censoring to happen.


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"Save the USPS, buy stamps; save the hobby, use commemoratives"

juicyheads.com/link.php?PLJZJP
doomboy
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02 Mar 2018
08:08:33pm
re: Romanian covers to Australia

If I remember correctly, there was also a large British garrison in Flensburg - also a major Displaced Persons (DP) camp as well. This might account for extra scrutiny.

As a historical side note, Flensburg was the seat of the Nazi government when it finally surrendered in May 1945.

-Darryl

P.S. Probably no need to decipher the name. There was a large German expat community in Brazil - over 1 000 000 in the 1930s. Germano might have got his name as a reminder of the 'Heimat' by Ma and Pa Rauert.

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doomboy
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02 Mar 2018
08:33:13pm
re: Romanian covers to Australia

Got carried away. Both Rosenberger and Rauert are common names in Schlieswig-Holstein. Rosenberger is likely of Danish origin. Both names are found on either side of the German-Danish border. Perhaps cousins corresponding?

I love/hate the Interwebs...

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pigdoc

03 Mar 2018
10:45:03am
re: Romanian covers to Australia

Thanks for the responses on censoring and names.

I also wondered if "Germano" was a bastardization of the Spanish hermano - brother.

After thinking this over some more, I think it is likely that the letter was opened by a censor in London.

I've always thought that the post-WWII era into the earliest years of the Cold War era would be an interesting collecting area, because of the large amount of political flux during that time. I find it entertaining to speculate on the reasons for a particular mailing, and in an environment of high political intrigue, that makes each item all the more mysterious. I tend to avoid the more mundane commercial correspondence, unless there's some potential controversy.

But, I haven't taken the plunge.

This cover from Rio to Flensburg, caught my eye, offered by a seller that I had just bought from, so I had him throw it in to spread the cost of postage across another item.
That's a frequent MO for me...

"War needn't be ongoing for censoring to happen."



Sure, but was wondering what OTHER reasons existed for censoring.
Detecting political or anarchy plots?
Gathering evidence to pursue war crimes perpetrators?
Finding out what your enemies (Romania?) are up to (ie, humint)?
What else?

Thanks again,
Paul

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virgilp

30 Jun 2019
12:18:17am
re: Romanian covers to Australia

I am a little late for this subject. Interesting is the time interval when the Romanian letters were posted.
1. First two letters were posted in 1952, after the monetary reform was introduced in January 28, 1952. Most of the stamps (except Scott #881) are surcharged with the new currency; Scott #881 was issued in May 21, 1952.
2. Third letter was posted on Dec. 7, 1949 with stamps from set 698A-698H.

Between Dec. 1949 and late May 1952 (using the date when 881 was issued) there are almost 2.5 years when letters from Romania to Australia were censored. If this was the situation with Romania, does somebody know if letters from Bulgaria, Hungary and other Eastern Block Countries to Australia were censored? Was only Romania under surveillance????
This is an interesting subject, at least for me.

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Author/Postings
Members Picture
snowy12

28 Feb 2018
10:15:06pm

Auctions - Approvals

I have three covers sent from Romania to Australia via the Suez Canal.They are a little tatty as they were sent in the late 1940's
Image Not Found
Image Not Found
Is there anything interesting about them or are they just run of the mill?
Brian

Like 
2 Members
like this post.
Login to Like.
Members Picture
amsd

Editor, Seal News; contributor, JuicyHeads
01 Mar 2018
08:35:00am

re: Romanian covers to Australia

couple of thoughts

I doubt you'll find many Romania to NSW covers floating about from any time period.

the fact that they have Suez transit marks makes them all the better. The top cover appears to be franked with airmail stamps; i don't know if that requires air transport or can frank any service, but if so, it gives you Suez as the transit spot for both air and sea between points.

Antonio on that other canal might have some insights, too.

Like
Login to Like
this post

"Save the USPS, buy stamps; save the hobby, use commemoratives"

juicyheads.com/link. ...
Members Picture
smauggie

01 Mar 2018
03:06:25pm

re: Romanian covers to Australia

You are very generous David. I do not have insights, but I can give some observations.

I have never seen Romanian covers from this time period . . . and I collect covers from all over the world.

The destination is fascinating, being a small town in NSW.

I don't see the link to the Suez Canal, though I could be missing something.

They are certainly not run-of-the-mill.

Like
Login to Like
this post

canalzonepostalhisto ...
Members Picture
snowy12

01 Mar 2018
07:33:04pm

Auctions - Approvals

re: Romanian covers to Australia

Hi
I was informed that the Arabic mark was a Egyptian censor mark ?which would tie them to the Suez Canal?
Brian

Like
Login to Like
this post
pigdoc

02 Mar 2018
11:43:49am

re: Romanian covers to Australia

This reminds me of a question I have had needling me for some time:

What was the context by which censoring of international mail was still occurring as late as the end of 1949?

Is this a holdover from WWII, or an early manifestation of the Cold War?
I've seen some of this on mail to/from Berlin in the post-WWII era, which could make sense, I guess. And I think I've seen it on some South American covers, maybe to catch German war crimes fugitives? Kind of wants to be an area of collecting for me...

And, what would the Suez Canal care about the contents of a cover destined for Australia? Was the Suez/Sinai still a British Protectorate in late 1949?
And, finally, it's strange that the censor cancel is in Arabic, if it was English authorities doing the censoring.

Like
Login to Like
this post
pigdoc

02 Mar 2018
12:08:14pm

re: Romanian covers to Australia

(digging through collection)
Here it is:
Image Not Found

Brazil to British Zone 24b, mailed 30-Aug-47.
Received Flensburg 19-Sep-47.
Censored by the British.
That's pretty slow for airmail...

Why was it censored?

The Inter-American Treaty of Reciprocal Assistance was signed on 02-Sep-1947 in Rio de Janeiro. This was a treaty instrument consistent with the Truman Doctrine.

The sender's address on the cover does not seem to be particularly significant - it's an urban area of small storefronts that does not appear to have changed much in the last 100 years, except for the graffiti.


Do the sender's and recipient's names bear some decoding?
"Germano Rauert" = The German Rauert"?

Rosenberger seems like a Jewish name to me.

Thanks,
Paul


Like
Login to Like
this post
Members Picture
amsd

Editor, Seal News; contributor, JuicyHeads
02 Mar 2018
06:07:05pm

re: Romanian covers to Australia

PorkRX.....

Germany was occupied by the allies until 1952, at least administratively, and Berlin until its reunification.

I don't know the date at which censoring mail stopped, but guys not name Fritz with guns were in Germany for years after the war's end.

War needn't be ongoing for censoring to happen.


Like
Login to Like
this post

"Save the USPS, buy stamps; save the hobby, use commemoratives"

juicyheads.com/link. ...
Members Picture
doomboy

02 Mar 2018
08:08:33pm

re: Romanian covers to Australia

If I remember correctly, there was also a large British garrison in Flensburg - also a major Displaced Persons (DP) camp as well. This might account for extra scrutiny.

As a historical side note, Flensburg was the seat of the Nazi government when it finally surrendered in May 1945.

-Darryl

P.S. Probably no need to decipher the name. There was a large German expat community in Brazil - over 1 000 000 in the 1930s. Germano might have got his name as a reminder of the 'Heimat' by Ma and Pa Rauert.

Like
Login to Like
this post
Members Picture
doomboy

02 Mar 2018
08:33:13pm

re: Romanian covers to Australia

Got carried away. Both Rosenberger and Rauert are common names in Schlieswig-Holstein. Rosenberger is likely of Danish origin. Both names are found on either side of the German-Danish border. Perhaps cousins corresponding?

I love/hate the Interwebs...

Like
Login to Like
this post
pigdoc

03 Mar 2018
10:45:03am

re: Romanian covers to Australia

Thanks for the responses on censoring and names.

I also wondered if "Germano" was a bastardization of the Spanish hermano - brother.

After thinking this over some more, I think it is likely that the letter was opened by a censor in London.

I've always thought that the post-WWII era into the earliest years of the Cold War era would be an interesting collecting area, because of the large amount of political flux during that time. I find it entertaining to speculate on the reasons for a particular mailing, and in an environment of high political intrigue, that makes each item all the more mysterious. I tend to avoid the more mundane commercial correspondence, unless there's some potential controversy.

But, I haven't taken the plunge.

This cover from Rio to Flensburg, caught my eye, offered by a seller that I had just bought from, so I had him throw it in to spread the cost of postage across another item.
That's a frequent MO for me...

"War needn't be ongoing for censoring to happen."



Sure, but was wondering what OTHER reasons existed for censoring.
Detecting political or anarchy plots?
Gathering evidence to pursue war crimes perpetrators?
Finding out what your enemies (Romania?) are up to (ie, humint)?
What else?

Thanks again,
Paul

Like
Login to Like
this post
virgilp

30 Jun 2019
12:18:17am

re: Romanian covers to Australia

I am a little late for this subject. Interesting is the time interval when the Romanian letters were posted.
1. First two letters were posted in 1952, after the monetary reform was introduced in January 28, 1952. Most of the stamps (except Scott #881) are surcharged with the new currency; Scott #881 was issued in May 21, 1952.
2. Third letter was posted on Dec. 7, 1949 with stamps from set 698A-698H.

Between Dec. 1949 and late May 1952 (using the date when 881 was issued) there are almost 2.5 years when letters from Romania to Australia were censored. If this was the situation with Romania, does somebody know if letters from Bulgaria, Hungary and other Eastern Block Countries to Australia were censored? Was only Romania under surveillance????
This is an interesting subject, at least for me.

Like 
1 Member
likes this post.
Login to Like.
        

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