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Europe/Other : Hungary First Issues

 

Author
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jw13332

27 Feb 2018
03:00:42pm
Can anyone advise on an easy way to tell the differences between the Hungarian first issues - Scott 1 thru 6 versus 7 thru 12 - lithographed versus engraved. I've read generally related threads about lithography and engraved, with lithography being 'flatter', but haven't been able to detect such a difference with these visually or by touch (I'm a little leery about trying the foil method). I thought the engraved stamps would have a clearer portrait image than the lithographed images, and while some of my copies do seem to have a less clearer portrait, I'm not sure that's a consistent measure for these (maybe worn plates too?), especially since I've looked at what's offered for sale on the APS Stampstore site and portrait clarity seems to be all over the place (of course, there's no guarantee that sellers have correctly identified their items either).

Are there any consistent design details that can help tell these apart? Thanks!
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HungaryForStamps
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27 Feb 2018
05:07:30pm
re: Hungary First Issues

There are design details that set them apart, but after a time, just eyeballing them is enough to spot the difference between engraving and lithography (particularly focusing on the beard/neck region). Its like US flat plate vs offset eyeballing.

The easiest method if you can't eyeball it or detect the engraving through your finely sandpapered fingertips is the foil method. Not sure what your trepidation is with this method. I have always used method this to confirm my many examples from these sets. As long as you take precautions, such as cover the entire stamp with semi-light foil and rub gently in one corner with a soft pencil eraser, there should be no problems.

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AntoniusRa
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The truth is within and only you can reveal it

28 Feb 2018
04:36:22pm
re: Hungary First Issues

The colors of the lithographs are generally lighter having a more washed-out pastel appearance. The engraving is usually easily detected either by the rub test or by looking
down the edge of the stamps face. Both my sets are below and quite clearly show the differences in color and clarity. A larger scan would show detail even better but this is the largest size the board will accommodate.

Image Not Found

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mitch.seymourfamily.com/mward/collection/mapindex.html
TuskenRaider
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28 Feb 2018
06:12:29pm
re: Hungary First Issues

Hi Everyone;

@ jw13332;

The topic of detecting engraved versus offset litho was very well covered in this thread.
It utilizes shining a LED light at a very acute angle. then observing the stamp under a
digital microscope to see the shadow cast by the ink ridges.

engraved vs offset litho

I personally would not use aluminum foil, as it is very soft. It would be easy to
accidentally transfer some metal to the stamp, especially engraved stamps with a texture
similar to a nail file.

AntoniusRa's suggestion would work, but you would need one of each stamp to compare to.
There are also other stamps from other countries, that may not be detectable using color
comparisons.

This LED & digital microscope idea is great but requires buying a few items that you may
not have. However, considering the usefulness of this microscope for detecting plate
variations of the Washington/Franklins it is a no brainer win-win.

Still just sortin'....
TuskenRaider

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jw13332

08 Mar 2018
11:37:20pm
re: Hungary First Issues

Thanks to all that responded. I did try the foil test, and typically got some kind of an impression (even with stamps that the print visually looked quite different - faded, less or rougher detail, etc.), but sometimes the impression was extremely light and only barely visible if I turned it in different directions to catch the light reflection. Might be the type of foil too. In any case, if I understand correctly, any impression indicates the engraved version.

Thanks again.

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AntoniusRa
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The truth is within and only you can reveal it

09 Mar 2018
10:14:39pm
re: Hungary First Issues

Yes, However I never use the foil method as I am either able to see or feel it, and my eyes aren't very good. Don't us heavy duty aluminum foil as it is unlikely to show much of anything. The thinner the better.

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mitch.seymourfamily.com/mward/collection/mapindex.html
        

 

Author/Postings
jw13332

27 Feb 2018
03:00:42pm

Can anyone advise on an easy way to tell the differences between the Hungarian first issues - Scott 1 thru 6 versus 7 thru 12 - lithographed versus engraved. I've read generally related threads about lithography and engraved, with lithography being 'flatter', but haven't been able to detect such a difference with these visually or by touch (I'm a little leery about trying the foil method). I thought the engraved stamps would have a clearer portrait image than the lithographed images, and while some of my copies do seem to have a less clearer portrait, I'm not sure that's a consistent measure for these (maybe worn plates too?), especially since I've looked at what's offered for sale on the APS Stampstore site and portrait clarity seems to be all over the place (of course, there's no guarantee that sellers have correctly identified their items either).

Are there any consistent design details that can help tell these apart? Thanks!

Like
Login to Like
this post
Members Picture
HungaryForStamps

27 Feb 2018
05:07:30pm

re: Hungary First Issues

There are design details that set them apart, but after a time, just eyeballing them is enough to spot the difference between engraving and lithography (particularly focusing on the beard/neck region). Its like US flat plate vs offset eyeballing.

The easiest method if you can't eyeball it or detect the engraving through your finely sandpapered fingertips is the foil method. Not sure what your trepidation is with this method. I have always used method this to confirm my many examples from these sets. As long as you take precautions, such as cover the entire stamp with semi-light foil and rub gently in one corner with a soft pencil eraser, there should be no problems.

Like 
1 Member
likes this post.
Login to Like.
Members Picture
AntoniusRa

The truth is within and only you can reveal it
28 Feb 2018
04:36:22pm

re: Hungary First Issues

The colors of the lithographs are generally lighter having a more washed-out pastel appearance. The engraving is usually easily detected either by the rub test or by looking
down the edge of the stamps face. Both my sets are below and quite clearly show the differences in color and clarity. A larger scan would show detail even better but this is the largest size the board will accommodate.

Image Not Found

Like 
4 Members
like this post.
Login to Like.

mitch.seymourfamily. ...
Members Picture
TuskenRaider

28 Feb 2018
06:12:29pm

re: Hungary First Issues

Hi Everyone;

@ jw13332;

The topic of detecting engraved versus offset litho was very well covered in this thread.
It utilizes shining a LED light at a very acute angle. then observing the stamp under a
digital microscope to see the shadow cast by the ink ridges.

engraved vs offset litho

I personally would not use aluminum foil, as it is very soft. It would be easy to
accidentally transfer some metal to the stamp, especially engraved stamps with a texture
similar to a nail file.

AntoniusRa's suggestion would work, but you would need one of each stamp to compare to.
There are also other stamps from other countries, that may not be detectable using color
comparisons.

This LED & digital microscope idea is great but requires buying a few items that you may
not have. However, considering the usefulness of this microscope for detecting plate
variations of the Washington/Franklins it is a no brainer win-win.

Still just sortin'....
TuskenRaider

Like 
1 Member
likes this post.
Login to Like.

www.webstore.com/sto ...
jw13332

08 Mar 2018
11:37:20pm

re: Hungary First Issues

Thanks to all that responded. I did try the foil test, and typically got some kind of an impression (even with stamps that the print visually looked quite different - faded, less or rougher detail, etc.), but sometimes the impression was extremely light and only barely visible if I turned it in different directions to catch the light reflection. Might be the type of foil too. In any case, if I understand correctly, any impression indicates the engraved version.

Thanks again.

Like
Login to Like
this post
Members Picture
AntoniusRa

The truth is within and only you can reveal it
09 Mar 2018
10:14:39pm

re: Hungary First Issues

Yes, However I never use the foil method as I am either able to see or feel it, and my eyes aren't very good. Don't us heavy duty aluminum foil as it is unlikely to show much of anything. The thinner the better.

Like
Login to Like
this post

mitch.seymourfamily. ...
        

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