Discussion - Member to Member Sales - Research Center
Discussion - Member to Member Sales - Research Center
The "not 2/26" inscriptions are by my carrier, applied yesterday, indicating that I wasn't home when she knocked on my door for a signature.
I'll throw these in a shoebox, and decades later, someone will find them and say, "Wow!"
So, now, challenge ON!
Whaddaya got?
-Paul
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i could say "wow" now, and "why wait?"
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An afterthought:
"Wow, look at that - India Post was still using dot matrix printers...in 2018!"
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Stolen? Not this one:
Cheers,
/s/ ikeyPikey
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Actually dot matrix printers are still used for a variety of applications and are often used to deal with heavy-duty and automated printing functions.
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OK, smauggie, but I challenge you to produce anything printed by USPS in the last year, or three, on a dot matrix printer!
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Nice cover, ikey!
I like the juxtaposition of the orthodox theme in the imperf self-adhesive(?) stamp at the top and the (unorthodox) Olympic theme in the 1.50PT stamp at the bottom.
-Paul
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"OK, smauggie, but I challenge you to produce anything printed by USPS in the last year, or three, on a dot matrix printer!"
You think the USPS would somehow be better if they did not use dot matrix printers? That doesn't even make sense. They use "advanced" thermal printing that simply disappears after five years making collecting postal history nearly impossible.
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Smauggie, my implication is simply that dot matrix printing is outdated technology, by just about anyone's definition in 2018, apparently except India Post's.
Not better, not worse, just outdated.
"Outdated" is an assertion, subject to proof to the contrary, ie, contemporary usage.
Would love to be refuted.
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pigdoc,
You may want to dial down the rhetoric just a bit.
Or not.
Lars
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"Actually dot matrix printers are still used for a variety of applications and are often used to deal with heavy-duty and automated printing functions. "
smauggie's post above is 100% accurate. Dot matrix printers are noisy (its an impact printer) and the print quality is low. But dot matrix printing is still used extensively in applications where multi-part forms are required. It is the most robust and economical printing method so it is a very good fit in many industrial environments.
That's said, pigdoc is also correct. I am pretty sure that the USPS phased out the use of dot matrix printing a few years ago because of their reliance upon OCR (Optical Character Recognition) sorting technology. Dot matrix printing typically leaves spaces in the formation of the letters and this makes OCR more difficult
Don
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Dot matrix printers are still used by airlines at their gates for printing out passenger lists and reports for the pilot. They are real workhorses. I have one around here somewhere - now I want to dig it out 
Geoff
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Just don't mail out your resume printed dot matrix! 
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I certainly won’t say that modern covers can't be interesting! Most of those I receive aren’t very interesting, at least to me. I haven’t collected “the world” since about 1957, when I realized the futility of filling every page of my three-volume Scott International album, discovered girls, and basically forgot about collecting. When I started collecting again, about 1980, I “specialized” in Canada, stamps at first, and then postal history. My interests slowly broadened into Eire and Scandinavia, which I dropped after a few years when collecting new issues became a fool’s errand), and started new collections, one at a time, over the next several years. One of those is the Vietnam War, of which I am a veteran.
An interesting set of stamps I am working to complete was issued by North Vietnam in 1954-55, commemorating the communist Viet Minh victory over the French Army at Dien Bien Phu, the battle that resulted in the end of French influence in Vietnam and the decision of the Geneva Convention to partition the country into North and South Vietnam.
The design of the stamps, common to each of four values, is based on a photograph or photographs of a Viet Minh soldier standing on a French bunker on the day the battle ended. The stamps, issued without gum, were printed in perforate and imperforate versions. All but one of them, the imperf 10d stamp, are relatively easy to obtain in mint and CTO condition. Postally used copies of these stamps aren’t common, so I was pleased to find this postally used, perforated copy of the 150d stamp on the Delcampe web site:
The stamp arrived from Saigon a couple of days ago, and I’m as pleased with the cover as with the stamp. It’s franked with a 2017 souvenir sheet and stamp commemorating General Nguyen Giap, who died in 2013; the design pictures Giap in uniform, and a scene in the background similar to that of the Dien Bien Phu stamp shown above.
Here's a larger image of the 3000d stamp on the cover:
This is the photograph that the design is based on:
At Dien Bien Phu, Giap’s troops brought in heavy artillery, moving weapons through difficult terrain up the steep rear slopes of the mountains surrounding the French positions, dug tunnels through the mountain, and placed the artillery pieces overlooking the French encampment. This positioning of the artillery made it nearly impervious to French counter-battery fire; the French artillery officer who planned the defence of the valley shot himself before the end of the battle.
One of the interesting things about my new cover is that it was postmarked in Saigon, not in Ho Chi Minh City, which is the city’s official name, bestowed by the communists after they defeated South Vietnam. Apparently officials don’t always get their way!
Bob
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thanks for this, Corpsman.
Dien Bien Phu, for those who don't know it, was a defensive nightmare, built in the cup of a valley, meaning that all surronding ground was higher.
Air superiority and ability to dominate the landscape with artillery fire was assumed to be sufficient to overpower the Viet Minh. As Bob notes, artillery counterfire failed, and air power, especially the ability to resupply was lost, as enemy units brought antiaircraft fire to bear on the landstrips.
France, like America 20 years later, was exhausted by the war. The great victory turned into the final nail.
It should be noted that French and allied Vietnamese troops fought valiantly, and might have won had they been given better terrain. Alas, it was a death trap of their leaders' making.
Finally, in this the 50th Anniversary of the Battle of Hue and the Tet Offensive, if American politicians and military men had been paying attention, they might have noticed that the Viet Minh were willing to pay a high price to drive invaders out. Perhaps they might have given second thought to starting something they were unlikely to outlast.
sorry to steal your thread Bob.
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David & Bob:
Fascinating history! Thank-you for sharing.
David
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"One of those is the Vietnam War, of which I am a veteran."
Oh, Bob, we gotta talk!
I am not a Vietnam Veteran (turned 18 four months after the US evacuated Saigon, April 30, 1975), but my 'substitute' uncle was a highly decorated Vietnam veteran (Misty FAC #2), and my mentor when I was in HS. (That's a whole 'nother story!)
My Vietnam collection started with the NVN stamps commemorating the totals of downed USAF planes, and then quickly expanded to include every issue by NVN, the Viet Cong, and South Vietnam which had any hint of a political theme. It's about 300 items, including some covers and the military stamp issues (all except the VERY hard to find 1969 #M16).
I've always been a huge fan of propaganda on stamps as a theme.
It's hard to find genuine used wartime Vietnam material (as opposed to CTO), but period covers offer some hope.
It is interesting that NVN and Viet Cong stamps went for a long time banned from Scott. Don't know if they're in there now, my WW Scott catalogs are from 1980. I used the online catalog at Stampworld to complete my collection.
I too have a couple of modern covers postmarked Saigon. Don't have time to dig them out today, but I will start another thread on Vietnam soon with them...
THANKS for posting!
-Paul
PS, REALLY like the Dien Bien Phu postcard!
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Here are two more modern Vietnam covers that seem to meld the Saigon and Ho Chi Minh City distinctions:
Of particular interest is the CDS on the reverse that has BOTH Saigon and Ho Chi Minh City indicia.
This is just the backside of another cover. Both of these are from dealers who I bought some of my Vietnam material from.
-Paul
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...and finally, (for today) here is just one more example of an incredible modern cover, from a dealer in Taiwan whom I have bought from multiple times. I have 3 of these covers in hand, all very similar, but different:
If the dealer/sender was hoping to cement brand loyalty by creating covers like these, I have but one response:
"It's WORKING!"
Let us all take a lesson.
-Paul
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To prevent further hijacking of Pigdoc's thread with posts about old covers, I'm going open a new thread about old U.S. airmail covers, starting with the earliest one in my collection, posted in 1918, just 16 days after the inauguration of U.S. airmail service.
In the meantime, here's another interesting modern cover, interesting to me at least because of the franking, picturing one of my favourite airliners, the Lockheed Constellation:
Here's a larger image of the stamps:
In 1962, I flew from Travis Air Force Base in California to Tachikawa AFB near Tokyo in a Military Air Transports System (MATS) Consellation. We landed at Hickam AFB in Hawaii and at Wake Island for fuel and food; the flight time, not counting stops, was 26 hours. For details and photographs, see my web page, Low & Slow in a “Connie” — Flying to Japan in 1963.
One of the advantages of modern covers is that stamps franking them are generally printed with high production values. For me, they provide attractive collateral material to display along with older covers and stamps.
Bob
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BEAUTIFUL, Bob!
Here's another, received in today's mail, from Israel:
Wow, label again printed with a dot matrix printer. Justification of the page break is off. Bilingual, but I would be amazed if the Hebrew printed on it is readable. And, it includes a religious symbol (the menorah), not typical of US government documents.
-Paul
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Got this in the mail last month...
Don
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Awesome!
Laughing my a__ off, Don!
Thanks!
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Brilliant!
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In yesterday's mail:
Highham Hills. What a charming name!
-Paul
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"... but I would be amazed if the Hebrew printed on it is readable ..."
Well, just above the word "Postage" is the Hebrew calendar date: 12 Adar 5758, or 27 February 2018 to you.
Just below that is the weight (or perhaps the maximum permissible weight at that rate) of the item, in kilograms.
To the far right of the date is the name of town, Rishon L'Tzion, mostly important because I lived there from 1991-3, but also known for its history, famous arm-twisting advice from M Rothschild, the resulting winery, and lovely beaches (bought for a song from the nearby city of Bat Yam), etc:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rishon_LeZion
Below the city name is the Hebrew word used for postage and/or stamp, and below that is the amount of postage paid (NIS 16.00) and the two-letter Hebrew symbol/abbreviation/acronym for "NIS".
I am uncertain about the "sha'ar rishon" (lit "first gate") in the upper right-hand corner of the label.
Teller window number? Nah ...
More likely it is the name of the branch office, located at #1 Golda Meir Street, on the southern side of the city.
Cheers,
/s/ ikeyPikey
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Although not a full cover, still interesting.
Wish who ever cut this out had kept the original.
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Um yeah.
How is it that postage paid in Papua, New Guinea got machine cancelled in El Paso, TX?
And, then, does the "PLEASE POST X-MAS MAIL THIS WEEK" suggest that the citizenry of Papua, New Guinea mandates a Christian secularism in their official acts (such as mail handling)?
-Paul
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it looks like two different US machine cancels
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I am hesitant to ever disagree with amsd, but:
Re PLEASE POST X-MAS MAIL THIS WEEK
Americans don't use the word "post" as a verb.
Searching Moe Luff's United States Postal Slogan Cancels (1950) - which we can imagine has been imperfectly OCR'd - we find several US cancels in the form "MAIL EARLY" but none with the verb "POST".
NB: Mr Luff's compilation is thru 1950, while this cover is postmarked 1987, but I don't think that American usage has changed.
Therefor, I suspect that the slogan is a PNG slogan, asking their customers to cut them a little slack, perhaps applied only to outbound international mail.
The WikiGod says:
"Although English is an official language of Papua New Guinea, it is only spoken by 1–2% of the population."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Languages_of_Papua_New_Guinea
So, yeah, six to five and pick 'em ... unless, of course, someone knows that PNG outbound mail passed thru, say, Australia.
I am much more confident in asserting that the El Paso postmark is an example of inconsequential everyday mis-processing; eg, perhaps the cover was mis-delivered, returned to the mail stream, and passed thru an El Paso facer-canceler machine.
Cheers,
/s/ ikeyPikey
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Just found this one in one of my "must sort boxes". This cover was sent to me from a friend in 1990. At first look it´s sort of boring. If you look at the stamps however, there is a East German, West German and a DDR stamp with "Deutsche Post" marking (Transition stamp)on it. I have not seen a like cover although there must be some around.
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Following-up on the earlier posts, here is a dot-matrix-printed CVP from 1988, wrapped around the corner of a postcard.
Cheers,
/s/ ikeyPikey
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Gotta bump this topic with this cover, arrived today:
Interesting that it was posted on May 28, 2018, a day when US post offices were closed!
Bearing $270 in postage. Wow. Is that Argentine Pesos? Right now, it's 27 Argentine Pesos to the dollar. Can I call this an inflation cover? Would be nice to say it has a block of stamps on it, but they're all individual self-adhesive stamps. Ha-RUMPH!
Also very interesting that all 4 corners were cut off when I received it. By the stamp in the lower right, the cuts were made AFTER the stamps were applied. I wonder if this is a way to reduce Customs scrutiny? Like, "Look Ma, no white powders within!"
By the way, the contents were SEVEN nice 1930s Argentine and Brazil international covers, including a censored Condor cover, Brazil to Germany, July 23, 1936 with a July 31 receiver cancellation on the reverse. Will nicely fill a hole in my Hindenburg cover collection...
-Paul
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South Africa
January 1, 1981
Registered postal stationary with priority mail etiquette and registration etiquette.
The bulk of the postage is paid with an NCR meter. This is the first version of meter that was used by the South Africa post office. These meters were only used in post offices. This scarce meter has a catalog value of $50 on cover.
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Very nice, smauggie!
So, do you think it got the international (from domestic) forwarding with no bump in postage? The two double-ring cancellations appear to be identical. And, I see FIVE handwritten numbers on the cover. What do they indicate?
Seems odd to me that the postal clerk cancelled the meter label. Would the 20c have been the registration fee?
Interesting that your South Africa cover has a pre-printed blue cross on it. Appears to me to be a carryover from earlier times when the postal clerk would simply mark a blue cross on a registered cover with a crayon. Now, I wonder if the practical functionality was to segregate the various "etiquettes" on the cover for clarity. Had not thought of that as a purpose of the cross before seeing your cover.
I think this 'blue cross' convention was specific to the British Empire. Interested in others' perspectives!
-Paul
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Hi Paul -
Yes you will find specially printed envelopes from Victorian times with the blue lines across the envelope, and it was used at least in all the major British territories, protectorates and colonies. In many cases, the postage for the cost of registered mail was printed on the envelope as well, though in this example that is not the case.
Originally when mail was sent registered, the postal service would tie up the envelope with a green ribbon just in the same pattern as the blue cross you see on this envelope. The color did later change to blue and for a while a blue crayon was used to mark the cover with a blue cross, and of course eventually the envelopes were printed with the cross on it.
For most of the 20th century and to date the US postal service has not charged for forwarding.
In my experience, many postal workers are not sure how to treat meters. You will find in many countries where either the meter was applied by the post office, or the metered envelope was mailed at the post office, the meter has been cancelled. Given that this meter was the first meter generated solely in South African post offices, postal workers will not have been used to working with them.
I do not know the rates so I am not sure what the registration fee was.
I think the 9333 19/1 may have been applied in Durban as the log number for this registered cover.
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.
Here is a nicely canceled and happily unmolested cover from Canada.
Cheers,
/s/ ikeyPikey
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Here’s an interesting cover I bought on the ‘bay. This is actual postage usage of the early lobby machine printed stamps. No doubt collector created due to the number of stamps attached to make the then current 29 cent rate, but it legitimately went through the mails. A bit of postal history going right into my USA album.
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OK, Tony, here you go:
I'd say this one is less "interesting" and more "infuriating".
A POX on Sharpies!
Who's next?
-Paul
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Paul,
and that's the reason that when we hand in our package, and they affix the PVI, they ALSO hand cancel the stamps so that down the line, Sharpie is likely to appear.
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Bump.
Contained a nice German Inflation cover, received yesterday:
I happened to catch the delivery lady and give her my signature before she had a chance to scribble on the cover.
-Paul
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Here's a very nice one I received this week from an eBay dealer.
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Nice, Bermuda Sailor!
Here's another one that I got yesterday, which would fit right in with that collection:
NICE detail shots on some historic airplanes like the VC10, the Comet, and the Concorde!
Too bad it's not cancelled.
Thank YOU, seller!
-Paul
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And, one more, from the same seller, for the Prince William fans, arrived today:
Still not cancelled.
I'm mildly perturbed that seller did not combine the two orders, but molified by the covers.
Lucky thing it got to me, given the botched zip code. (Homer mode) DOH! (/Homer mode)
Keep 'em coming!
-Paul
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Wow Paul! Looks like you'll have to get out your Sharpie and cancel all those stamps out of a sense of duty! 
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They just keep coming!
What's really interesting to me on this one is that it was posted on December 4, but I didn't receive it until December 31. That's pretty slow for air mail...
Go here to see what this cover contained:
Vietnam Postal History From 1960s & 1970s
-Paul
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This one just came yesterday:
470 Pesos for ground service. Wow. And, it only took 11 days to get here....by Airmail!
Checking currency exchange rates, Argentina's Peso had a precipitous drop in 2016 against the dollar, and has continued to decay further, by a factor of 5 since then. Current exchange rate is about 44 ARS to 1 USD.
Someday soon, "Argentine Inflation Mail" will make an interesting exhibit topic...
-Paul
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This cover came to me from an eBay seller. Generally, covers from eBay purchases don't merit keeping, but I decided to save this one for its multiple markings and hand stamps, including an embossed seal on the reverse flap.
FF
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gotta love the bi-lingual cachet: snail mail/par escargot
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small world !! I know the sender of the cover with precancel stamps and Escargot mail mark !!
He is a very knowledgeable collector of modern PNCs. Good guy.
That was my entertainment for the evening !
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Received today:
GORGEOUS RR stamps!
Six days across the pond.
-Paul
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Note the 2 10c cancelled by our local postmasterThis week I received this cover from a dealer in India:
Bob
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Bob:
Nice to get the COVID stamps on the cover... lovely.
David
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Funny thing, those Bicentennial issue stamps from 1976... back in the day we all thought those would be valuable... the fifty state flags and souvenir sheets, so we stocked up! And here we are more than 40 years later using them for postage!
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Yeah, using 30 now, when 1 would do in 1976....
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04:01:14am
".... wonder how he found space for the address? ...."
He, or she, put the address on first.
Un otro misterio resuelto.
HUZZAR !!!
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04:04:49am
" .... back in the day we all thought those would be valuable... the fifty state flags and souvenir sheets, so we stocked up ...."
Smile hn you say that cowboy !
PS: Does anyone want any "Face on Mars" sheetlets ?
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Just arrived yesterday:
I guess it came by surface mail. 12 days: not too bad!
The commemorative cancellation is interesting. I cannot tell if it commemorates a specific date. Esglesia de Santa Maria d'Arenys was consecrated on July 28, 1686. Coming up on 335 years.
From a webpage:
Santa Maria d'Arenys
-Paul
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This one arrived in today's mail:
It's a Christmas card that my wife mailed to her nephew.
Two or three barcodes at the bottom, a couple of RTS labels, and two cancellations. Ryan tells us that he's recently gotten multiple messages from others who have sent them mail since they moved out. So I guess the mail was piling up in the vacant apartment.
I guess he never thought of leaving a forwarding address.
Funny thing is that we were at their wedding in July!
-Paul
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look at all the dates: two on OCRs cancelling the stamps (which now precisely pay the correct postage; but then overpaid it) plus the Nixie tape. handled at least three times, with big rests inbetween
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A recent cover from Brazil to USA. Two weeks -- not bad for these times.
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02:02:07am
" ... from Brazil to USA. ..."
One nice aspect of this cover is that the stamps were placed
a half inch or so from the edge where the Post Office scuff
machine did not ruin the stamps.
Far too many covers, even from knowledgeable stampers, have
the stamp right at the very edge of the envelope and the stamps
are often ruined. Plus, the cover looks a bit shoddy with small
streaks of the cancelled stamps scraped away.
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Here's one that came in the mail last week:
Both the souvenir sheets used for postage are undamaged. I would expect those to be hard to come by GPU (genuine postally used).
They could look like CTOs off-cover, and they're not tied, but current provenance is that they're not faked!
Some time ago, we also talked about post office usage of dot matrix printing technology. There it is, again! Technology as old as I am.
Kinda like the 1953 Chevies still motoring around Cuba.
-Paul
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12:57:58pm
For your perusal, two covers I picked up minutes ago at my local PO:
The "not 2/26" inscriptions are by my carrier, applied yesterday, indicating that I wasn't home when she knocked on my door for a signature.
I'll throw these in a shoebox, and decades later, someone will find them and say, "Wow!"
So, now, challenge ON!
Whaddaya got?
-Paul
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re: CHALLENGE: Who says modern covers can't be interesting?
i could say "wow" now, and "why wait?"
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01:56:26pm
re: CHALLENGE: Who says modern covers can't be interesting?
An afterthought:
"Wow, look at that - India Post was still using dot matrix printers...in 2018!"
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re: CHALLENGE: Who says modern covers can't be interesting?
Stolen? Not this one:
Cheers,
/s/ ikeyPikey
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re: CHALLENGE: Who says modern covers can't be interesting?
Actually dot matrix printers are still used for a variety of applications and are often used to deal with heavy-duty and automated printing functions.
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02:07:35pm
re: CHALLENGE: Who says modern covers can't be interesting?
OK, smauggie, but I challenge you to produce anything printed by USPS in the last year, or three, on a dot matrix printer!
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03:14:32pm
re: CHALLENGE: Who says modern covers can't be interesting?
Nice cover, ikey!
I like the juxtaposition of the orthodox theme in the imperf self-adhesive(?) stamp at the top and the (unorthodox) Olympic theme in the 1.50PT stamp at the bottom.
-Paul
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re: CHALLENGE: Who says modern covers can't be interesting?
"OK, smauggie, but I challenge you to produce anything printed by USPS in the last year, or three, on a dot matrix printer!"
You think the USPS would somehow be better if they did not use dot matrix printers? That doesn't even make sense. They use "advanced" thermal printing that simply disappears after five years making collecting postal history nearly impossible.
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04:07:25pm
re: CHALLENGE: Who says modern covers can't be interesting?
Smauggie, my implication is simply that dot matrix printing is outdated technology, by just about anyone's definition in 2018, apparently except India Post's.
Not better, not worse, just outdated.
"Outdated" is an assertion, subject to proof to the contrary, ie, contemporary usage.
Would love to be refuted.
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re: CHALLENGE: Who says modern covers can't be interesting?
pigdoc,
You may want to dial down the rhetoric just a bit.
Or not.
Lars
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re: CHALLENGE: Who says modern covers can't be interesting?
"Actually dot matrix printers are still used for a variety of applications and are often used to deal with heavy-duty and automated printing functions. "
smauggie's post above is 100% accurate. Dot matrix printers are noisy (its an impact printer) and the print quality is low. But dot matrix printing is still used extensively in applications where multi-part forms are required. It is the most robust and economical printing method so it is a very good fit in many industrial environments.
That's said, pigdoc is also correct. I am pretty sure that the USPS phased out the use of dot matrix printing a few years ago because of their reliance upon OCR (Optical Character Recognition) sorting technology. Dot matrix printing typically leaves spaces in the formation of the letters and this makes OCR more difficult
Don
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06:40:28pm
re: CHALLENGE: Who says modern covers can't be interesting?
Dot matrix printers are still used by airlines at their gates for printing out passenger lists and reports for the pilot. They are real workhorses. I have one around here somewhere - now I want to dig it out
Geoff
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re: CHALLENGE: Who says modern covers can't be interesting?
Just don't mail out your resume printed dot matrix!
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re: CHALLENGE: Who says modern covers can't be interesting?
I certainly won’t say that modern covers can't be interesting! Most of those I receive aren’t very interesting, at least to me. I haven’t collected “the world” since about 1957, when I realized the futility of filling every page of my three-volume Scott International album, discovered girls, and basically forgot about collecting. When I started collecting again, about 1980, I “specialized” in Canada, stamps at first, and then postal history. My interests slowly broadened into Eire and Scandinavia, which I dropped after a few years when collecting new issues became a fool’s errand), and started new collections, one at a time, over the next several years. One of those is the Vietnam War, of which I am a veteran.
An interesting set of stamps I am working to complete was issued by North Vietnam in 1954-55, commemorating the communist Viet Minh victory over the French Army at Dien Bien Phu, the battle that resulted in the end of French influence in Vietnam and the decision of the Geneva Convention to partition the country into North and South Vietnam.
The design of the stamps, common to each of four values, is based on a photograph or photographs of a Viet Minh soldier standing on a French bunker on the day the battle ended. The stamps, issued without gum, were printed in perforate and imperforate versions. All but one of them, the imperf 10d stamp, are relatively easy to obtain in mint and CTO condition. Postally used copies of these stamps aren’t common, so I was pleased to find this postally used, perforated copy of the 150d stamp on the Delcampe web site:
The stamp arrived from Saigon a couple of days ago, and I’m as pleased with the cover as with the stamp. It’s franked with a 2017 souvenir sheet and stamp commemorating General Nguyen Giap, who died in 2013; the design pictures Giap in uniform, and a scene in the background similar to that of the Dien Bien Phu stamp shown above.
Here's a larger image of the 3000d stamp on the cover:
This is the photograph that the design is based on:
At Dien Bien Phu, Giap’s troops brought in heavy artillery, moving weapons through difficult terrain up the steep rear slopes of the mountains surrounding the French positions, dug tunnels through the mountain, and placed the artillery pieces overlooking the French encampment. This positioning of the artillery made it nearly impervious to French counter-battery fire; the French artillery officer who planned the defence of the valley shot himself before the end of the battle.
One of the interesting things about my new cover is that it was postmarked in Saigon, not in Ho Chi Minh City, which is the city’s official name, bestowed by the communists after they defeated South Vietnam. Apparently officials don’t always get their way!
Bob
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thanks for this, Corpsman.
Dien Bien Phu, for those who don't know it, was a defensive nightmare, built in the cup of a valley, meaning that all surronding ground was higher.
Air superiority and ability to dominate the landscape with artillery fire was assumed to be sufficient to overpower the Viet Minh. As Bob notes, artillery counterfire failed, and air power, especially the ability to resupply was lost, as enemy units brought antiaircraft fire to bear on the landstrips.
France, like America 20 years later, was exhausted by the war. The great victory turned into the final nail.
It should be noted that French and allied Vietnamese troops fought valiantly, and might have won had they been given better terrain. Alas, it was a death trap of their leaders' making.
Finally, in this the 50th Anniversary of the Battle of Hue and the Tet Offensive, if American politicians and military men had been paying attention, they might have noticed that the Viet Minh were willing to pay a high price to drive invaders out. Perhaps they might have given second thought to starting something they were unlikely to outlast.
sorry to steal your thread Bob.
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David & Bob:
Fascinating history! Thank-you for sharing.
David
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11:17:53am
re: CHALLENGE: Who says modern covers can't be interesting?
"One of those is the Vietnam War, of which I am a veteran."
Oh, Bob, we gotta talk!
I am not a Vietnam Veteran (turned 18 four months after the US evacuated Saigon, April 30, 1975), but my 'substitute' uncle was a highly decorated Vietnam veteran (Misty FAC #2), and my mentor when I was in HS. (That's a whole 'nother story!)
My Vietnam collection started with the NVN stamps commemorating the totals of downed USAF planes, and then quickly expanded to include every issue by NVN, the Viet Cong, and South Vietnam which had any hint of a political theme. It's about 300 items, including some covers and the military stamp issues (all except the VERY hard to find 1969 #M16).
I've always been a huge fan of propaganda on stamps as a theme.
It's hard to find genuine used wartime Vietnam material (as opposed to CTO), but period covers offer some hope.
It is interesting that NVN and Viet Cong stamps went for a long time banned from Scott. Don't know if they're in there now, my WW Scott catalogs are from 1980. I used the online catalog at Stampworld to complete my collection.
I too have a couple of modern covers postmarked Saigon. Don't have time to dig them out today, but I will start another thread on Vietnam soon with them...
THANKS for posting!
-Paul
PS, REALLY like the Dien Bien Phu postcard!
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04:48:50pm
re: CHALLENGE: Who says modern covers can't be interesting?
Here are two more modern Vietnam covers that seem to meld the Saigon and Ho Chi Minh City distinctions:
Of particular interest is the CDS on the reverse that has BOTH Saigon and Ho Chi Minh City indicia.
This is just the backside of another cover. Both of these are from dealers who I bought some of my Vietnam material from.
-Paul
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04:58:24pm
re: CHALLENGE: Who says modern covers can't be interesting?
...and finally, (for today) here is just one more example of an incredible modern cover, from a dealer in Taiwan whom I have bought from multiple times. I have 3 of these covers in hand, all very similar, but different:
If the dealer/sender was hoping to cement brand loyalty by creating covers like these, I have but one response:
"It's WORKING!"
Let us all take a lesson.
-Paul
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To prevent further hijacking of Pigdoc's thread with posts about old covers, I'm going open a new thread about old U.S. airmail covers, starting with the earliest one in my collection, posted in 1918, just 16 days after the inauguration of U.S. airmail service.
In the meantime, here's another interesting modern cover, interesting to me at least because of the franking, picturing one of my favourite airliners, the Lockheed Constellation:
Here's a larger image of the stamps:
In 1962, I flew from Travis Air Force Base in California to Tachikawa AFB near Tokyo in a Military Air Transports System (MATS) Consellation. We landed at Hickam AFB in Hawaii and at Wake Island for fuel and food; the flight time, not counting stops, was 26 hours. For details and photographs, see my web page, Low & Slow in a “Connie” — Flying to Japan in 1963.
One of the advantages of modern covers is that stamps franking them are generally printed with high production values. For me, they provide attractive collateral material to display along with older covers and stamps.
Bob
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05:06:29pm
re: CHALLENGE: Who says modern covers can't be interesting?
BEAUTIFUL, Bob!
Here's another, received in today's mail, from Israel:
Wow, label again printed with a dot matrix printer. Justification of the page break is off. Bilingual, but I would be amazed if the Hebrew printed on it is readable. And, it includes a religious symbol (the menorah), not typical of US government documents.
-Paul
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Got this in the mail last month...
Don
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06:08:21pm
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Awesome!
Laughing my a__ off, Don!
Thanks!
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Brilliant!
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11:38:29am
re: CHALLENGE: Who says modern covers can't be interesting?
In yesterday's mail:
Highham Hills. What a charming name!
-Paul
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"... but I would be amazed if the Hebrew printed on it is readable ..."
Well, just above the word "Postage" is the Hebrew calendar date: 12 Adar 5758, or 27 February 2018 to you.
Just below that is the weight (or perhaps the maximum permissible weight at that rate) of the item, in kilograms.
To the far right of the date is the name of town, Rishon L'Tzion, mostly important because I lived there from 1991-3, but also known for its history, famous arm-twisting advice from M Rothschild, the resulting winery, and lovely beaches (bought for a song from the nearby city of Bat Yam), etc:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rishon_LeZion
Below the city name is the Hebrew word used for postage and/or stamp, and below that is the amount of postage paid (NIS 16.00) and the two-letter Hebrew symbol/abbreviation/acronym for "NIS".
I am uncertain about the "sha'ar rishon" (lit "first gate") in the upper right-hand corner of the label.
Teller window number? Nah ...
More likely it is the name of the branch office, located at #1 Golda Meir Street, on the southern side of the city.
Cheers,
/s/ ikeyPikey
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Although not a full cover, still interesting.
Wish who ever cut this out had kept the original.
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12:17:32pm
re: CHALLENGE: Who says modern covers can't be interesting?
Um yeah.
How is it that postage paid in Papua, New Guinea got machine cancelled in El Paso, TX?
And, then, does the "PLEASE POST X-MAS MAIL THIS WEEK" suggest that the citizenry of Papua, New Guinea mandates a Christian secularism in their official acts (such as mail handling)?
-Paul
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it looks like two different US machine cancels
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I am hesitant to ever disagree with amsd, but:
Re PLEASE POST X-MAS MAIL THIS WEEK
Americans don't use the word "post" as a verb.
Searching Moe Luff's United States Postal Slogan Cancels (1950) - which we can imagine has been imperfectly OCR'd - we find several US cancels in the form "MAIL EARLY" but none with the verb "POST".
NB: Mr Luff's compilation is thru 1950, while this cover is postmarked 1987, but I don't think that American usage has changed.
Therefor, I suspect that the slogan is a PNG slogan, asking their customers to cut them a little slack, perhaps applied only to outbound international mail.
The WikiGod says:
"Although English is an official language of Papua New Guinea, it is only spoken by 1–2% of the population."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Languages_of_Papua_New_Guinea
So, yeah, six to five and pick 'em ... unless, of course, someone knows that PNG outbound mail passed thru, say, Australia.
I am much more confident in asserting that the El Paso postmark is an example of inconsequential everyday mis-processing; eg, perhaps the cover was mis-delivered, returned to the mail stream, and passed thru an El Paso facer-canceler machine.
Cheers,
/s/ ikeyPikey
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Just found this one in one of my "must sort boxes". This cover was sent to me from a friend in 1990. At first look it´s sort of boring. If you look at the stamps however, there is a East German, West German and a DDR stamp with "Deutsche Post" marking (Transition stamp)on it. I have not seen a like cover although there must be some around.
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Following-up on the earlier posts, here is a dot-matrix-printed CVP from 1988, wrapped around the corner of a postcard.
Cheers,
/s/ ikeyPikey
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08:27:13pm
re: CHALLENGE: Who says modern covers can't be interesting?
Gotta bump this topic with this cover, arrived today:
Interesting that it was posted on May 28, 2018, a day when US post offices were closed!
Bearing $270 in postage. Wow. Is that Argentine Pesos? Right now, it's 27 Argentine Pesos to the dollar. Can I call this an inflation cover? Would be nice to say it has a block of stamps on it, but they're all individual self-adhesive stamps. Ha-RUMPH!
Also very interesting that all 4 corners were cut off when I received it. By the stamp in the lower right, the cuts were made AFTER the stamps were applied. I wonder if this is a way to reduce Customs scrutiny? Like, "Look Ma, no white powders within!"
By the way, the contents were SEVEN nice 1930s Argentine and Brazil international covers, including a censored Condor cover, Brazil to Germany, July 23, 1936 with a July 31 receiver cancellation on the reverse. Will nicely fill a hole in my Hindenburg cover collection...
-Paul
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South Africa
January 1, 1981
Registered postal stationary with priority mail etiquette and registration etiquette.
The bulk of the postage is paid with an NCR meter. This is the first version of meter that was used by the South Africa post office. These meters were only used in post offices. This scarce meter has a catalog value of $50 on cover.
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06:47:39am
re: CHALLENGE: Who says modern covers can't be interesting?
Very nice, smauggie!
So, do you think it got the international (from domestic) forwarding with no bump in postage? The two double-ring cancellations appear to be identical. And, I see FIVE handwritten numbers on the cover. What do they indicate?
Seems odd to me that the postal clerk cancelled the meter label. Would the 20c have been the registration fee?
Interesting that your South Africa cover has a pre-printed blue cross on it. Appears to me to be a carryover from earlier times when the postal clerk would simply mark a blue cross on a registered cover with a crayon. Now, I wonder if the practical functionality was to segregate the various "etiquettes" on the cover for clarity. Had not thought of that as a purpose of the cross before seeing your cover.
I think this 'blue cross' convention was specific to the British Empire. Interested in others' perspectives!
-Paul
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Hi Paul -
Yes you will find specially printed envelopes from Victorian times with the blue lines across the envelope, and it was used at least in all the major British territories, protectorates and colonies. In many cases, the postage for the cost of registered mail was printed on the envelope as well, though in this example that is not the case.
Originally when mail was sent registered, the postal service would tie up the envelope with a green ribbon just in the same pattern as the blue cross you see on this envelope. The color did later change to blue and for a while a blue crayon was used to mark the cover with a blue cross, and of course eventually the envelopes were printed with the cross on it.
For most of the 20th century and to date the US postal service has not charged for forwarding.
In my experience, many postal workers are not sure how to treat meters. You will find in many countries where either the meter was applied by the post office, or the metered envelope was mailed at the post office, the meter has been cancelled. Given that this meter was the first meter generated solely in South African post offices, postal workers will not have been used to working with them.
I do not know the rates so I am not sure what the registration fee was.
I think the 9333 19/1 may have been applied in Durban as the log number for this registered cover.
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.
Here is a nicely canceled and happily unmolested cover from Canada.
Cheers,
/s/ ikeyPikey
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Here’s an interesting cover I bought on the ‘bay. This is actual postage usage of the early lobby machine printed stamps. No doubt collector created due to the number of stamps attached to make the then current 29 cent rate, but it legitimately went through the mails. A bit of postal history going right into my USA album.
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07:30:35pm
re: CHALLENGE: Who says modern covers can't be interesting?
OK, Tony, here you go:
I'd say this one is less "interesting" and more "infuriating".
A POX on Sharpies!
Who's next?
-Paul
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Paul,
and that's the reason that when we hand in our package, and they affix the PVI, they ALSO hand cancel the stamps so that down the line, Sharpie is likely to appear.
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07:48:12pm
re: CHALLENGE: Who says modern covers can't be interesting?
Bump.
Contained a nice German Inflation cover, received yesterday:
I happened to catch the delivery lady and give her my signature before she had a chance to scribble on the cover.
-Paul
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re: CHALLENGE: Who says modern covers can't be interesting?
Here's a very nice one I received this week from an eBay dealer.
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05:48:42pm
re: CHALLENGE: Who says modern covers can't be interesting?
Nice, Bermuda Sailor!
Here's another one that I got yesterday, which would fit right in with that collection:
NICE detail shots on some historic airplanes like the VC10, the Comet, and the Concorde!
Too bad it's not cancelled.
Thank YOU, seller!
-Paul
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06:03:42pm
re: CHALLENGE: Who says modern covers can't be interesting?
And, one more, from the same seller, for the Prince William fans, arrived today:
Still not cancelled.
I'm mildly perturbed that seller did not combine the two orders, but molified by the covers.
Lucky thing it got to me, given the botched zip code. (Homer mode) DOH! (/Homer mode)
Keep 'em coming!
-Paul
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Wow Paul! Looks like you'll have to get out your Sharpie and cancel all those stamps out of a sense of duty!
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02:56:02pm
re: CHALLENGE: Who says modern covers can't be interesting?
They just keep coming!
What's really interesting to me on this one is that it was posted on December 4, but I didn't receive it until December 31. That's pretty slow for air mail...
Go here to see what this cover contained:
Vietnam Postal History From 1960s & 1970s
-Paul
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10:28:06am
re: CHALLENGE: Who says modern covers can't be interesting?
This one just came yesterday:
470 Pesos for ground service. Wow. And, it only took 11 days to get here....by Airmail!
Checking currency exchange rates, Argentina's Peso had a precipitous drop in 2016 against the dollar, and has continued to decay further, by a factor of 5 since then. Current exchange rate is about 44 ARS to 1 USD.
Someday soon, "Argentine Inflation Mail" will make an interesting exhibit topic...
-Paul
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This cover came to me from an eBay seller. Generally, covers from eBay purchases don't merit keeping, but I decided to save this one for its multiple markings and hand stamps, including an embossed seal on the reverse flap.
FF
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re: CHALLENGE: Who says modern covers can't be interesting?
gotta love the bi-lingual cachet: snail mail/par escargot
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09:49:34pm
re: CHALLENGE: Who says modern covers can't be interesting?
small world !! I know the sender of the cover with precancel stamps and Escargot mail mark !!
He is a very knowledgeable collector of modern PNCs. Good guy.
That was my entertainment for the evening !
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06:25:36pm
re: CHALLENGE: Who says modern covers can't be interesting?
Received today:
GORGEOUS RR stamps!
Six days across the pond.
-Paul
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re: CHALLENGE: Who says modern covers can't be interesting?
This week I received this cover from a dealer in India:
Bob
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Bob:
Nice to get the COVID stamps on the cover... lovely.
David
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re: CHALLENGE: Who says modern covers can't be interesting?
Funny thing, those Bicentennial issue stamps from 1976... back in the day we all thought those would be valuable... the fifty state flags and souvenir sheets, so we stocked up! And here we are more than 40 years later using them for postage!
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01:24:19pm
re: CHALLENGE: Who says modern covers can't be interesting?
Yeah, using 30 now, when 1 would do in 1976....
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Silence in the face of adversity is the father of complicity and collusion, the first cousins of conspiracy..
30 Mar 2021
04:01:14am
re: CHALLENGE: Who says modern covers can't be interesting?
".... wonder how he found space for the address? ...."
He, or she, put the address on first.
Un otro misterio resuelto.
HUZZAR !!!
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Silence in the face of adversity is the father of complicity and collusion, the first cousins of conspiracy..
30 Mar 2021
04:04:49am
re: CHALLENGE: Who says modern covers can't be interesting?
" .... back in the day we all thought those would be valuable... the fifty state flags and souvenir sheets, so we stocked up ...."
Smile hn you say that cowboy !
PS: Does anyone want any "Face on Mars" sheetlets ?
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09:01:20am
re: CHALLENGE: Who says modern covers can't be interesting?
Just arrived yesterday:
I guess it came by surface mail. 12 days: not too bad!
The commemorative cancellation is interesting. I cannot tell if it commemorates a specific date. Esglesia de Santa Maria d'Arenys was consecrated on July 28, 1686. Coming up on 335 years.
From a webpage:
Santa Maria d'Arenys
-Paul
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09:13:13pm
re: CHALLENGE: Who says modern covers can't be interesting?
This one arrived in today's mail:
It's a Christmas card that my wife mailed to her nephew.
Two or three barcodes at the bottom, a couple of RTS labels, and two cancellations. Ryan tells us that he's recently gotten multiple messages from others who have sent them mail since they moved out. So I guess the mail was piling up in the vacant apartment.
I guess he never thought of leaving a forwarding address.
Funny thing is that we were at their wedding in July!
-Paul
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look at all the dates: two on OCRs cancelling the stamps (which now precisely pay the correct postage; but then overpaid it) plus the Nixie tape. handled at least three times, with big rests inbetween
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re: CHALLENGE: Who says modern covers can't be interesting?
A recent cover from Brazil to USA. Two weeks -- not bad for these times.
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Silence in the face of adversity is the father of complicity and collusion, the first cousins of conspiracy..
01 Oct 2021
02:02:07am
re: CHALLENGE: Who says modern covers can't be interesting?
" ... from Brazil to USA. ..."
One nice aspect of this cover is that the stamps were placed
a half inch or so from the edge where the Post Office scuff
machine did not ruin the stamps.
Far too many covers, even from knowledgeable stampers, have
the stamp right at the very edge of the envelope and the stamps
are often ruined. Plus, the cover looks a bit shoddy with small
streaks of the cancelled stamps scraped away.
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08:58:53am
re: CHALLENGE: Who says modern covers can't be interesting?
Here's one that came in the mail last week:
Both the souvenir sheets used for postage are undamaged. I would expect those to be hard to come by GPU (genuine postally used).
They could look like CTOs off-cover, and they're not tied, but current provenance is that they're not faked!
Some time ago, we also talked about post office usage of dot matrix printing technology. There it is, again! Technology as old as I am.
Kinda like the 1953 Chevies still motoring around Cuba.
-Paul
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