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United States/Stamps : Early US Identification

 

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Poodle_Mum
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A Service Dog gives a person with a disability independence. Never approach, distract or pet a working dog, especially when (s)he is in harness. Never be afraid to ask questions to the handler (parent).

03 Feb 2018
12:52:29am
I've never collected US before. How the heck am I supposed to ID these?
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michael78651
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Moderator, MT Member

03 Feb 2018
02:14:07am
re: Early US Identification

Many are easy to ID, because there is only one type. For the rest, there is the Scott US Specialized. You won't need to buy a new catalog since the identifier is the same in the older editions.

There are also many other reference books and web sites to help you out as well. I'm sure others will come along and provide links.

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Poodle_Mum
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A Service Dog gives a person with a disability independence. Never approach, distract or pet a working dog, especially when (s)he is in harness. Never be afraid to ask questions to the handler (parent).

03 Feb 2018
02:20:07am
re: Early US Identification

I've managed to work out the second scan.

I have no idea what the concept of grill actually is. This is my biggest barrier.

I picked up a Scott Classic catalogue from the library the other day because I need it to create my album pages.

It's definitely the concept of the grill that has me baffled. I suppose in some ways it can be as frustrating or more so than Canadian tagging.

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51Studebaker
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Dialysis, damned if you do...dead if you don't

03 Feb 2018
03:21:54am
re: Early US Identification

This link will help you learn about grills on US stamps.
http://www.stampsmarter.com/learning/ID_1867_1868Grills.html

This link will help you identify the Bank Note stamps, simple click on the stamp which looks like your stamp and 'drill down' into more information for each stamp.
http://www.stampsmarter.com/1847usa/identifyBankNotes.html

From Stamp Smarter illustrated Glossary

"Grill - A grill is a security device consisting of a waffle-like pattern of raised ridges intended to break the paper fiber of stamps in the hope that the cancellation ink would be more completely absorbed and thus harder to wash out."


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Don

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Poodle_Mum
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A Service Dog gives a person with a disability independence. Never approach, distract or pet a working dog, especially when (s)he is in harness. Never be afraid to ask questions to the handler (parent).

03 Feb 2018
12:08:24pm
re: Early US Identification

Thanks Don - I didn't know the grills were identifiable from the front. Some good lighting and magnification should get me moving on that page.

I don't want to assume the original owner (this lot has only had one owner) properly identified everything in the right spot. I found a different stamp in another collection of album pages that had everything identified but they missed one important thing - the length of the roulette which made the "common stamp" into a a whole different ballpark, much to my surprise and happiness.

I've also noticed that there are small notations of Scott #s but these have obviously changed since 1948 and in fact some numbers do not even exist in the catalogues which makes my identification more cumbersome.

Many thanks!

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"Let's find a cure for Still's Disease, Breast Cancer and Canine Addison's Disease. We CAN find a cure and save lives!!"

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AntoniusRa
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The truth is within and only you can reveal it

04 Feb 2018
12:32:22am
re: Early US Identification

The grilled stamps often times can be difficult to identify and trying to do so by looking at the front will only make it harder. Watermark fluid is a big help in showing the grill for counting the points of the grill, from the backside. One of the uses of your perf gauge is the mm ruler for measuring the grill size. Identifying the Banknotes has always been one of the most difficult issues to be identified correctly. It is mainly done by identifying the different paper types used by the three different companies that printed the notes The 1870, 1873 and 1879 stamps were printed by the National, Continental and American banknote companies respectively. They all used different paper types and often slightly different colors. In the case of the 1873 issues, secret marks were added which greatly help identification. You should study your catalog to see the differences in the different printings. The hardest are the Thirty and 90 cent as they do not have secret marks. The smaller later Bureau issues either have triangles in the upper corners or don't. The first 1890 set does not and is unwatermarked. The 1894 and 1895 issues have the triangles but are told apart by the different watermarks they have.

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mitch.seymourfamily.com/mward/collection/mapindex.html
pigdoc

05 Feb 2018
04:18:31pm
re: Early US Identification

Mainly for Poodle Mum's edification, here is an item from my collection:

Image Not Found

This image illustrates something I want to see in a grilled stamp: clear evidence that the grill was applied before the cancellation. As you can see in this image, the ink from the cancellation does not cover the individual squares that are the grill.

Of course, someone could have faked the grill, and then faked the cancellation. But, to do that, you'd have to start with a (less available) mint stamp, convincingly grill it, and THEN, convincingly cancel it. (This becomes more important as the value of mint examples goes up with the higher value issues.) This would seem to pile hurdle on top of hurdle, with the result a reduction in the possibility that the whole affair is faked.

Just my humble opinion, your mileage may vary.
(JMHO, YMMV)



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pigdoc

05 Feb 2018
04:46:26pm
re: Early US Identification

Here's another great example of the phenomenon of a cancellation highlighting a grill. On a cover, no less:

Image Not Found

A close up:
Image Not Found

This cancellation doesn't tie the stamp to the cover, but all the factors add up to scream that this piece is genuine.

By the way, the addressee, Wm Potts, notates on the back of the cover that it was received on February 19th, 1869, in a hand that I recognize as his own, from other manuscript letters that he wrote that are in my collection.

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Poodle_Mum
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A Service Dog gives a person with a disability independence. Never approach, distract or pet a working dog, especially when (s)he is in harness. Never be afraid to ask questions to the handler (parent).

05 Feb 2018
08:35:01pm
re: Early US Identification

Under magnification, I think I see the grill on the 3c stamp. Thank you. I'll take extra care to magnify my copies of that stamp to see if I can identify the grill.

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"Let's find a cure for Still's Disease, Breast Cancer and Canine Addison's Disease. We CAN find a cure and save lives!!"

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Author/Postings

A Service Dog gives a person with a disability independence. Never approach, distract or pet a working dog, especially when (s)he is in harness. Never be afraid to ask questions to the handler (parent).
03 Feb 2018
12:52:29am

I've never collected US before. How the heck am I supposed to ID these?
Image Not Found
Image Not Found
Image Not Found

Like
Login to Like
this post

"Let's find a cure for Still's Disease, Breast Cancer and Canine Addison's Disease. We CAN find a cure and save lives!!"

emmettslegacy.webs.c ...
Members Picture
michael78651

Moderator, MT Member
03 Feb 2018
02:14:07am

re: Early US Identification

Many are easy to ID, because there is only one type. For the rest, there is the Scott US Specialized. You won't need to buy a new catalog since the identifier is the same in the older editions.

There are also many other reference books and web sites to help you out as well. I'm sure others will come along and provide links.

Like
Login to Like
this post

"Author: Seasons of Fantasies and Dreams, The Whitechapel Fog"

www.hipstamp.com/sto ...

A Service Dog gives a person with a disability independence. Never approach, distract or pet a working dog, especially when (s)he is in harness. Never be afraid to ask questions to the handler (parent).
03 Feb 2018
02:20:07am

re: Early US Identification

I've managed to work out the second scan.

I have no idea what the concept of grill actually is. This is my biggest barrier.

I picked up a Scott Classic catalogue from the library the other day because I need it to create my album pages.

It's definitely the concept of the grill that has me baffled. I suppose in some ways it can be as frustrating or more so than Canadian tagging.

Like
Login to Like
this post

"Let's find a cure for Still's Disease, Breast Cancer and Canine Addison's Disease. We CAN find a cure and save lives!!"

emmettslegacy.webs.c ...
Members Picture
51Studebaker

Dialysis, damned if you do...dead if you don't
03 Feb 2018
03:21:54am

re: Early US Identification

This link will help you learn about grills on US stamps.
http://www.stampsmarter.com/learning/ID_1867_1868Grills.html

This link will help you identify the Bank Note stamps, simple click on the stamp which looks like your stamp and 'drill down' into more information for each stamp.
http://www.stampsmarter.com/1847usa/identifyBankNotes.html

From Stamp Smarter illustrated Glossary

"Grill - A grill is a security device consisting of a waffle-like pattern of raised ridges intended to break the paper fiber of stamps in the hope that the cancellation ink would be more completely absorbed and thus harder to wash out."


Image Not Found

Don

Like
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this post

"Current Score... Don 1 - Cancer 0"

stampsmarter.org

A Service Dog gives a person with a disability independence. Never approach, distract or pet a working dog, especially when (s)he is in harness. Never be afraid to ask questions to the handler (parent).
03 Feb 2018
12:08:24pm

re: Early US Identification

Thanks Don - I didn't know the grills were identifiable from the front. Some good lighting and magnification should get me moving on that page.

I don't want to assume the original owner (this lot has only had one owner) properly identified everything in the right spot. I found a different stamp in another collection of album pages that had everything identified but they missed one important thing - the length of the roulette which made the "common stamp" into a a whole different ballpark, much to my surprise and happiness.

I've also noticed that there are small notations of Scott #s but these have obviously changed since 1948 and in fact some numbers do not even exist in the catalogues which makes my identification more cumbersome.

Many thanks!

Like
Login to Like
this post

"Let's find a cure for Still's Disease, Breast Cancer and Canine Addison's Disease. We CAN find a cure and save lives!!"

emmettslegacy.webs.c ...
Members Picture
AntoniusRa

The truth is within and only you can reveal it
04 Feb 2018
12:32:22am

re: Early US Identification

The grilled stamps often times can be difficult to identify and trying to do so by looking at the front will only make it harder. Watermark fluid is a big help in showing the grill for counting the points of the grill, from the backside. One of the uses of your perf gauge is the mm ruler for measuring the grill size. Identifying the Banknotes has always been one of the most difficult issues to be identified correctly. It is mainly done by identifying the different paper types used by the three different companies that printed the notes The 1870, 1873 and 1879 stamps were printed by the National, Continental and American banknote companies respectively. They all used different paper types and often slightly different colors. In the case of the 1873 issues, secret marks were added which greatly help identification. You should study your catalog to see the differences in the different printings. The hardest are the Thirty and 90 cent as they do not have secret marks. The smaller later Bureau issues either have triangles in the upper corners or don't. The first 1890 set does not and is unwatermarked. The 1894 and 1895 issues have the triangles but are told apart by the different watermarks they have.

Like 
2 Members
like this post.
Login to Like.

mitch.seymourfamily. ...
pigdoc

05 Feb 2018
04:18:31pm

re: Early US Identification

Mainly for Poodle Mum's edification, here is an item from my collection:

Image Not Found

This image illustrates something I want to see in a grilled stamp: clear evidence that the grill was applied before the cancellation. As you can see in this image, the ink from the cancellation does not cover the individual squares that are the grill.

Of course, someone could have faked the grill, and then faked the cancellation. But, to do that, you'd have to start with a (less available) mint stamp, convincingly grill it, and THEN, convincingly cancel it. (This becomes more important as the value of mint examples goes up with the higher value issues.) This would seem to pile hurdle on top of hurdle, with the result a reduction in the possibility that the whole affair is faked.

Just my humble opinion, your mileage may vary.
(JMHO, YMMV)



Like 
1 Member
likes this post.
Login to Like.
pigdoc

05 Feb 2018
04:46:26pm

re: Early US Identification

Here's another great example of the phenomenon of a cancellation highlighting a grill. On a cover, no less:

Image Not Found

A close up:
Image Not Found

This cancellation doesn't tie the stamp to the cover, but all the factors add up to scream that this piece is genuine.

By the way, the addressee, Wm Potts, notates on the back of the cover that it was received on February 19th, 1869, in a hand that I recognize as his own, from other manuscript letters that he wrote that are in my collection.

Like
Login to Like
this post

A Service Dog gives a person with a disability independence. Never approach, distract or pet a working dog, especially when (s)he is in harness. Never be afraid to ask questions to the handler (parent).
05 Feb 2018
08:35:01pm

re: Early US Identification

Under magnification, I think I see the grill on the 3c stamp. Thank you. I'll take extra care to magnify my copies of that stamp to see if I can identify the grill.

Like
Login to Like
this post

"Let's find a cure for Still's Disease, Breast Cancer and Canine Addison's Disease. We CAN find a cure and save lives!!"

emmettslegacy.webs.c ...
        

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