Discussion - Member to Member Sales - Research Center
Discussion - Member to Member Sales - Research Center
Well, for about 10 years, with a few tussles here and there (I ultimately won), I have been able to ship merchandise sold to foreign buyers via USPS International Mail First Class Letter Rate Non Machinable with a customs form. The law requires a customs form.
With yesterday's rate change, someone in the confines of the enormous bureaucracy of the USPS hit a switch that voided usage of customs forms for USPS International Mail First Class Letter Rate Non Machinable mailings. The computer at the clerks' stations will not process such mail if it has a customs form.
I can still use USPS International Mail First Class Letter Rate Non Machinable but not with a customs form processed. Again, that would be against the law. If there is merchandise, a customs form must be affixed.
If I want the customs form processed I was informed that I will have to use the USPS International Mail First Class Parcel Rate--for the same mailer! The catch: It will cost at least 10 or more dollars in postage to use that rate! Classic.
I had a buyer today in Australia who bought a 10 dollar item. The postage cost would have been $2.34 but instead such a buyer would be asked to pony up minimally $12.50 in postage alone for the same mailer. Oh the humanity. I figure that 99.9% of foreign buyers will pass on items with such a lopsided postage amount.
So, about 40% of my business will likely disappear. Multiply me by who knows how many other people were using USPS International Mail First Class Letter Rate Non Machinable with customs form. That would be a lot of postage now that the USPS will not collect in order to enforce a new regulation that makes no business sense.
I will keep you all informed on the success (or not) of my efforts. So far, I have reached out to eBay's USPS Department (who will collect less fees on items that will now not be sold to a numberless amount of foreign buyers) and also to my federal Senator whose office is in our city--they agreed to take a report on this and we'll see. Ya never know, right?
Bruce
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Thanks for the update Bruce. This will affect a lot of us living in the US. I look forward to whatever info you find out.
Regards ... Tim.
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The other day (Jan 21, 2018) USPS raised postal rates. First-Class from 49 cents to 50 cents, Stamped/post cards from 34 to 35 cents, Priority Mail went up 5 cents. Early last year the First Class Package Service start at $2.67 but in September 2017 it increased to $3.00. They increased it again, up another 16% the other day, it now starts at $3.50. First Class Package Service is for non-bendable envelopes. The new First Class Package rates are
Up to 4 ounces - $3.50
Up to 8 ounces - $3.75
Up to 9 ounces - $4.10
Up to 10 ounces - $4.45
Up to 11 ounces - $4.80
Up to 12 ounces - $5.15
Up to 13 ounces - $5.50
Don
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I'm am also trying to get the email for the "top brass" of the USPS including the postmaster general and one of her V.P's.
Bruce
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I had read something about this on some online seller discussion groups I participate in.
The clearest information I have been able to find is actually from stamps.com. It is also worth noting that they have some financial interest in this, as they somehow have been able to negotiate terms with the USPS to offer a special service at a much better price. (But still quite a bit higher than before.)
This change in USPS regulations does seem like it could really inhibit international stamp sales originating from the US.
(I also understand that it now puts the US in compliance with UPU regulations about sending merchandise.)
Two links here from stamps.com:
http://blog.stamps.com/2017/12/26/important-usps-making-changes-first-class-mail-international-flats/
http://blog.stamps.com/2018/01/18/stamps-com-launches-international-large-envelope-flat-service/
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Some links from a couple of other sources:
https://online-shipping-blog.endicia.com/new-usps-rule-for-first-class-mail-international-flats/
https://atlasintlmail.com/2017/11/first-class-international-mail-limi/
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Here in the UK we will probably have to follow the USPS as we are also members of the UPU. Unless of course our interpretation of the rules is different!
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In trying to put 2 and 2 together, it looks like, to comply with this new regulation, the rates in the box I've highlighted in red are what are required.
Price Group 1 is Canada, and Price Group 2 is Mexico, so anything beyond our next-door neighbors would be in Price Groups 3-9.
For a parcel 8 ounces or under, the price would range from a low of $13.50 to a high of $14.25, depending on the destination.
Am I understanding this correctly?
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Dave, yes, that is essentially correct. Here is a link to a chart that shows the various zones/price groups for all countries. Note that the zones/price groups are often not the same for the types of mailing service used.
https://pe.usps.com/text/imm/immpg.htm
Here is a map of the world from the USPS 2010 Rate Notice 123 with a quick reference of the zones/price groups by continent/area. It is still good to use and is very handy, but I believe that 2010 was the last year it was included in the Rate Notice. After you click on the link, you will see the Table of Contents. On the far right side is "Quick References". Click on "World Map" (pages 40-41), and you will go to the information.
https://pe.usps.com/archive/pdf/dmmarchive20100607/Notice123.pdf
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If you ship within the USA using non-flat rate services, you should also print out the Domestic Zone Chart. Here is the link for that chart. You will need to enter the first three digits of your ZIP Code to get the chart that is applicable to you.
https://postcalc.usps.com/DomesticZoneChart
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Note that these changes are a result of changes made to the Universal Postal Union Convention in 2017. Here is the text of the USPS notification:
"...conforming to the requirements of the Universal Postal Convention, limiting the contents of First-Class Mail International postcard, letter, and large envelope (flat) mail to personal correspondence and non-dutiable documents. Merchandise that was formerly carried in First-Class Mail International service will instead be eligible to be contained in First-Class Package International Service pieces or another available service. "
This means that if you live in the United States and sell and ship to a buyer outside the United States, you can no longer use First Class Letter or First Class Large Envelope to send the stamps. You must use First Class Parcel at the minimum.
As you can see by the chart posted above, the costs to ship in this manner are cost-prohibitive. You may want to consider excluding sales to those living outside the USA. Here is the link to the page to do that:
https://stamporama.com/auction/auction_new.php?action=70
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I sometimes receive approval selections from UK dealers. I assume this new rate structure will apply to me when making returns. Most of the dealers I patronize only require a proof of mailing for insurance purposes. Of course that means going to a postal counter, then you get asked to fill out a customs form, and so it goes..
As a sometime seller I currently limit sales to US only but have been willing to make exceptions at times. So much for that now.
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So will the flip side be true where Canadian sellers will pay more to ship here?
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Is this just half of the iceberg? To quote Brechinite:
"Here in the UK we will probably have to follow the USPS as we are also members of the UPU. Unless of course our interpretation of the rules is different!
"
Does this mean we're going to see a huge increase in postage costs for items purchased from outside the US? Just looking at the US rate chart, the lowest rate is $10.00 to Canada. Assuming Canada goes the same way, we can expect roughly the same cost for Canada to the US.
That's sure going to put a crimp in buying as well as selling.
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I appreciate the links provided. I had not seen anything nor heard anything down at the local PO regarding such a massive change.
I did use the link in the Federal Register article to express my dismay over this change, noting that the UPU regulations were not quoted which I would like to see for my self.
Also, trying to be pro-active, I wondered why, if such a change occurs, why not break down the Parcel Rate a little further, instead of lumping 1-8 oz all into one price point--suggesting it could be in line with the international letter rates with pricing for 1oz, 2oz, 3oz etc? This modification would not kill overseas business that brings in revenue for the USPS. After all, the mailer is exactly the same size used for the now defunct usage of the 1st Class International Letter Rate.
Bruce
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I'm amazed. Also in that Federal Register article there is a name and phone number for further information.
Just moments ago, Paula picked up the phone and we discussed the issue.
I asked Paula if there was a group of people who would discuss ideas/changes, meaning in this case, the break down of the lumped sum price point for small parcel international rate which starts at 1-8 oz for region one, etc. In other words, the price for 1 oz is the same as the price for an 8 oz item. I mentioned to her that it would ease the pain of this change by allowing sellers to pay a cheaper rate by the ounce, kind of inline with the international letter rate costs of per oz but still fulfill the requirement now to ship small parcel. And most importantly for the USPS, they would not lose all the revenue for postage paid.
Here is the email address she said to send along such suggestions:
ProductClassification@usps.gov
If you send along an email be sure to include your name and address.
Bruce
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Anglophile,
I hear what your saying. Still...I encourage people to send the email. While your experience might reflect how this will be treated, it can't be used as a model for all issues and this might move the proverbial mountain to make another change. I'm a cynical optimist!
Regarding what you said about parcels: I wouldn't be changing the mailer, it would be exactly the same size as it was for the letter rate so while being processed in the parcel lane, it still resembles a letter not a parcel.
Bruce
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i am still mailing to Canada and worldwide using the 6x9 manila envelope and $1.15 shipping until i am told thats a problem.
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Hopefully, it will not be a problem for you but claims of ignorance or ignoring these new regulations is not an excuse if you are caught up in a customs violation.
Bruce
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Royal Mail normally push a price increase through around the end of March. It will be interesting to see what they come up with especially they are now nominally a private company rather than being state owned.
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i am a collector not a business person..but there has to be a solution..i do know two serious sellers on ebay..stacks of priority envelopes going out every day..and they are NOT AFRAID to pass along their total shipping expenses.
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Anglophile wrote:
""I expect this will be the next exercise in unexpected consequences. A material portion of the revenue that was generated by merchandise moving in First Class International mail will be lost. It will NOT move to this more costly service because it does not make sense. Merchants will simply abandon a category of international sales. Nice going, UPU.""
I stopped selling outside the US nearly two years ago because of these changes that began occurring back then. As a former collector, a big part of selling has been the satisfaction of getting my stamps into other collectors hands wherever those collectors might reside. I miss that aspect of selling, but don't miss the added complexity and new hassles associated with customs and USPS regulatory changes. These new changes just seem to be reaffirming what we already knew for the most part.
It's difficult for me to imagine that UPU is any better than USPS when it comes to identifying the secondary impacts of their actions. I can't imagine what kind of analysis UPU undertook to determine this was a good move financially. A year from now, I'd sure like to see a comparison of the actual effect these changes have on revenue compared to what their analysis (if any) forecast for the year. I would think these changes could cause financial pain for several, if not most, UPU members. But, maybe they don't care. They're bureaucrats after all.
Tom
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Hi Everyone;
If a few stamps are thrown into a plain envelope, how are they going to know it was paid for merchandise or just a gift. Gifts of low value are not subject to tariffs or duty, correct?
Still just sortin'....
TuskenRaider
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Gifts (or sales) of low value may not be subject to tariffs or duty but they still legally require a customs form. Whether or not any attempts at enforcement will be forthcoming is anyone's guess. They already photograph every piece of mail in the system and they have the capability of "seeing into" items so my guess would be there might be some attempt at checking things out just to determine the percent of compliance, but who knows
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UPU may lay down the conditions and possibly a minimum charge for inter country handling.
They DO NOT tell individual mailing company's what to charge overall!!!!
I must also point out that USPS first class rate within the US is a lot less than what we pay in the UK. Our 1st class is 65pence which is 84.5 cents.
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"If a few stamps are thrown into a plain envelope, how are they going to know it was paid for merchandise or just a gift. Gifts of low value are not subject to tariffs or duty, correct?"
Just don't include invoices, notes saying thank you for your purchases or price lists or website addresses!!!!
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I will wait and see what the "Big Boys" do. My wife buys from Kilowareman in the Netherlands,So far one of his selling points is $1.99 shipping no matter if you purchase one item or 20. Of course people like him operate on volume..but customs slips ? He would need someone at the post office full time filling out customs slips. I Don't know how they do it..but SO Far...THEY DO !
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Just curious... If this all about/because UPU-rules compatibility, what/where is the UPU directive that started this all? (and yes, I did try to search upu.int for it, sadly no luck)
-k-
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I can't emphasize enough what bugs me about this USPS change.
If I ship something using small parcel rate and it weighs 2 ounces it cost the same as something the I ship using small parcel rate that weighs 8 oz. The rate structure is such that it begins at 1-8 ounces costs between $10 and 14.
Maybe that's the Achilles Heel of this move.
The clerks down at the local post office are used to seeing me nearly every day with First Class International Letter Rate mailers with a customs form with destinations in Europe, Asia, Australia, South America.
I told them today, let's keep track now and see how many mailers I ship to those places, using this expensive rate over the next month or so.
Probably not that many, meaning lost revenue for the cash-strapped USPS multiplied not just by me but many, many other people who brought revenue to the USPS by using the now defunct and cheaper First Class International Letter Rate with customs form.
Bruce
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My question is what constitutes a Flat vs package? The USPS has flat rates up to 64 oz. How can a flat be 64 oz and not be a package? Is that you can cram it into an large envelope?
The minimum cost of a package is $10 and the flat matches the package at 32 oz.
These are all country 1 (Canada) prices.
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A bit of a warning to anyone executing a Freedom of Information Act, you may end up having a couple of dark suited people show up on your doorstep.
After trying to get released some information regarding WWI and a revenue stamp usage, a pair of the dark suits arrived at the front door with lots of questions about the FOIA request. A bit unsettling to say the least. I did finally get to see a highly redacted document and can only assume that there was some connection with the chemical warfare in WW1 which is still considered highly sensitive. I’ll think twice before I try that again!
Don
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Don't take this as a political point please.
Surely a Freedom of Information Act is exactly that.Unless this information contravenes present day security ( in which case there is no doubt a mechanism for refusing to provide it ) the Government have no right to refuse - and as for sending out dark suits to interrogate you I am sure you could make a case for Government harrassment - which no doubt the press would have a field day with - unless of course Government censorship has been introduced via the back door. Next time this happens tape your conversation !
Going back to the original question - if you want to send me photographs of your wedding do you have to complete a customs form and pay over the odds postage...and what about material for exchange - or a gift of a lock of Aunty Lucy's hair?
Malcolm
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Hi Malcolm,
The customs form includes a box for gift as well a merchandise gift (there may be a couple others), meaning the customs people still require contents to be identified as either a gift or merchandise on the required form. So, the items you mentioned have to be termed as one or the other on the aforementioned customs form.
Now, here's the rub. You cannot send these items via First Class International Rate as of Monday January 22, 20`18 because the USPS has now deemed that a customs form may not be used with that service.
However the customs form is required by law so that means that in order to comply with the law, the more expensive rate, Small Parcel must be used.
Again, since many, many mailers from the First Class Letter Rate will now be required to shift over to the Small Parcel rate, the USPS could solve the issue by changing the pricing increments: Right now the Small Parcel Rate begins its pricing rate for items that weigh between 1-8 ounces. So, if a mailer weighs 1.5 ounces it is charged the same amount for postage as something that weighs 8 ounces. This is not fair. And I believe that the USPS will lose substantial revenue when people refuse to ship items of low value, using a prohibitively expensive rate.
I shipped a cover to Australia today--the mailer weighed 1.5 oz and rather than costing me $2.34 (the old service), it now cost me $12.61! It was an auction item and once bid before the change, I couldn't change it to the new rate nor did I feel it would be right to cancel the sale so I ate this one. The item won cost $8.50. All my other items listed reflect the newer, higher price for International Parcel. Don't think I'll be getting much business from foreign buyers anymore.
If the USPS would break down the small parcel rate to increments of 1 oz, 2 oz. etc and price accordingly, that would cushion us all here in the USA against this reprehensible rate increase upon mailers that have not changed in size but must use the higher rate now.
I called among others, my federal senator's office, explained what is going on and the person who handles issues with the USPS felt the case had merit and agreed to take the case. I try not to be too cynical, I'm a realist, I know the chances but still it's worth the effort.
Communicate the issue with people like federal Congressmen/women who might be able to force a modification.
Bruce
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Bruce said in the post immediately above:
"I called among others, my federal senator's office, explained what is going on and the person who handles issues with the USPS felt the case had merit and agreed to take the case. I try not to be too cynical, I'm a realist, I know the chances but still it's worth the effort.
Communicate the issue with people like federal Congressmen/women who might be able to force a modification."
I wanted to highlight this.
I used to work on advocacy issues on behalf of several non-profits (as a volunteer), and support what Bruce is saying.
Typically, their offices (both US Senators and US Congresspersons) are structured so that you would contact their local office. This falls under the category of "constituent services." Usually, you call or set up an appointment and meet with someone from the local office, who then becomes your primary contact, and the issue works its way up the chain to the elected official.
But it may also be the case that their DC office is the right point of contact. (Your local office can help determine that, or just contact both!)
For those who think this effort is pointless, I can personally speak of several successes on behalf of those non-profits I worked with.
-- Dave
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The problem here is also that the countries the items are being sent to are paid a portion of what you pay for delivering once the mail is in the destination country. Apparently from reading threads here and on other sites the general feeling around the world has been that the US is not paying it's fair share.
Postal rates here in the states are extremely low compared to other nations. We are not an island in this situation, there are considerations outside of our interests at play here.
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"You cannot send these items via First Class International Rate as of Monday January 22, 20`18 because the USPS has now deemed that a customs form may not be used with that service.
"
You can send the items via First Class International Parcel.
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Yes, I inadvertently left out the word Letter in my statement: You cannot send these items via First Class International LETTER Rate as of Monday January 22, 20`18 because the USPS has now deemed that a customs form may not be used with that service.
Bruce
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02:18:50am
But, did the rate for a simple letter to Canada rise from $1.15 or from $1.20 or did it not? Looking for a simple answer somewhere. How much is the postage ?
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For international letters to any country, the rate for the first ounce did not increase, so it's still $1.15. The upside for a letter to Canada is that this rate is for the first 2 ounces. That's not true for any other countries, including Mexico.
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12:41:04pm
Thank you, That is simple enough.
I had tried to find a simple note in all the pages
of the postal rates but if it is there
I missed it. I was afraid I had been asleep again
at the switch, as it were.
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The only real change has been that you can no longer include anything besides the letter and use First Class International Letter rate. Anything other than a letter or document must be shipped as a First Class International Parcel, be it merchandise or gift. The cost is several times that of a letter.
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Here was that summary sheet from the most recent USPS document (Notice 123) as of 1/21/18, the date of the rate changes, that I had posted near the start of the thread.
Although I highlighted the First-Class Package International rates, at the upper-left of that page it shows the First-Class International postcard and letter rates.
(I tried to repost this chart late last night my time (Pacific), but kept getting timed out, so I figured it had to do with SOR's backup routines, since it would've been several hours later at SOR World Headquarters :-) )
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02:07:15pm
No doubt it was there, but I simply failed to see it.
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Oh, no problem at all. There was a lot of information flying back and forth in that thread.
(I hope my immediate post above with the chart didn't sound snarky. That was not my intention at all. If it did, please accept my apologies.)
-- Dave
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i am shipping a "Christmas card" to Thailand today..i do not expect any problems !
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This should make everyone feel better....
Today, I received a small package from my uncle in Germany. It contained a flash stick, and weighed less than 8 ounces. It was shipped priority air mail. Postage paid was Euros $3.70 ($4.59 USD). If I had mailed this to my uncle, it would have cost me $14.00 USD (11.28 Euros).
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I asked two separate dealers at a stamp show today how they have handled the increased cost for overseas packets. They both said the exact same thing...their clerks know exactly what they are doing and do not care..they are shipping international packets as first class mail...4 ounces i believe.
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On Saturday, I talked to one of the clerks at my post office. She said that many smaller mailers have done exactly as I have, and are no longer shipping outside the USA. She agreed that in the long run it will hurt the USPS.
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While dealers or anyone else for that matter may ship merchandise via First Class Letter, it is highly unlikely they are doing so using the obligatory customs label on the mailer.
That means they run afoul of customs law and who knows what host of USPS postal rules. Clerks who knowingly ignore the rules endanger their job.
It also means that if they are caught at the US end, they will likely pay a fine or at the very least, lose their merchandise, possibly both.
Definitely, this newer regulation will result in a loss of revenue to the USPS.
Bruce
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06:05:31pm
Hello,
Well, for about 10 years, with a few tussles here and there (I ultimately won), I have been able to ship merchandise sold to foreign buyers via USPS International Mail First Class Letter Rate Non Machinable with a customs form. The law requires a customs form.
With yesterday's rate change, someone in the confines of the enormous bureaucracy of the USPS hit a switch that voided usage of customs forms for USPS International Mail First Class Letter Rate Non Machinable mailings. The computer at the clerks' stations will not process such mail if it has a customs form.
I can still use USPS International Mail First Class Letter Rate Non Machinable but not with a customs form processed. Again, that would be against the law. If there is merchandise, a customs form must be affixed.
If I want the customs form processed I was informed that I will have to use the USPS International Mail First Class Parcel Rate--for the same mailer! The catch: It will cost at least 10 or more dollars in postage to use that rate! Classic.
I had a buyer today in Australia who bought a 10 dollar item. The postage cost would have been $2.34 but instead such a buyer would be asked to pony up minimally $12.50 in postage alone for the same mailer. Oh the humanity. I figure that 99.9% of foreign buyers will pass on items with such a lopsided postage amount.
So, about 40% of my business will likely disappear. Multiply me by who knows how many other people were using USPS International Mail First Class Letter Rate Non Machinable with customs form. That would be a lot of postage now that the USPS will not collect in order to enforce a new regulation that makes no business sense.
I will keep you all informed on the success (or not) of my efforts. So far, I have reached out to eBay's USPS Department (who will collect less fees on items that will now not be sold to a numberless amount of foreign buyers) and also to my federal Senator whose office is in our city--they agreed to take a report on this and we'll see. Ya never know, right?
Bruce
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re: It's Been A Good Ride_____________Until Yesterday (2018 Changes to International Shipping)
Thanks for the update Bruce. This will affect a lot of us living in the US. I look forward to whatever info you find out.
Regards ... Tim.
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re: It's Been A Good Ride_____________Until Yesterday (2018 Changes to International Shipping)
The other day (Jan 21, 2018) USPS raised postal rates. First-Class from 49 cents to 50 cents, Stamped/post cards from 34 to 35 cents, Priority Mail went up 5 cents. Early last year the First Class Package Service start at $2.67 but in September 2017 it increased to $3.00. They increased it again, up another 16% the other day, it now starts at $3.50. First Class Package Service is for non-bendable envelopes. The new First Class Package rates are
Up to 4 ounces - $3.50
Up to 8 ounces - $3.75
Up to 9 ounces - $4.10
Up to 10 ounces - $4.45
Up to 11 ounces - $4.80
Up to 12 ounces - $5.15
Up to 13 ounces - $5.50
Don
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07:27:09pm
re: It's Been A Good Ride_____________Until Yesterday (2018 Changes to International Shipping)
I'm am also trying to get the email for the "top brass" of the USPS including the postmaster general and one of her V.P's.
Bruce
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re: It's Been A Good Ride_____________Until Yesterday (2018 Changes to International Shipping)
I had read something about this on some online seller discussion groups I participate in.
The clearest information I have been able to find is actually from stamps.com. It is also worth noting that they have some financial interest in this, as they somehow have been able to negotiate terms with the USPS to offer a special service at a much better price. (But still quite a bit higher than before.)
This change in USPS regulations does seem like it could really inhibit international stamp sales originating from the US.
(I also understand that it now puts the US in compliance with UPU regulations about sending merchandise.)
Two links here from stamps.com:
http://blog.stamps.com/2017/12/26/important-usps-making-changes-first-class-mail-international-flats/
http://blog.stamps.com/2018/01/18/stamps-com-launches-international-large-envelope-flat-service/
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re: It's Been A Good Ride_____________Until Yesterday (2018 Changes to International Shipping)
Some links from a couple of other sources:
https://online-shipping-blog.endicia.com/new-usps-rule-for-first-class-mail-international-flats/
https://atlasintlmail.com/2017/11/first-class-international-mail-limi/
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07:58:31pm
Approvals
re: It's Been A Good Ride_____________Until Yesterday (2018 Changes to International Shipping)
Here in the UK we will probably have to follow the USPS as we are also members of the UPU. Unless of course our interpretation of the rules is different!
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re: It's Been A Good Ride_____________Until Yesterday (2018 Changes to International Shipping)
In trying to put 2 and 2 together, it looks like, to comply with this new regulation, the rates in the box I've highlighted in red are what are required.
Price Group 1 is Canada, and Price Group 2 is Mexico, so anything beyond our next-door neighbors would be in Price Groups 3-9.
For a parcel 8 ounces or under, the price would range from a low of $13.50 to a high of $14.25, depending on the destination.
Am I understanding this correctly?
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09:54:07am
re: It's Been A Good Ride_____________Until Yesterday (2018 Changes to International Shipping)
Dave, yes, that is essentially correct. Here is a link to a chart that shows the various zones/price groups for all countries. Note that the zones/price groups are often not the same for the types of mailing service used.
https://pe.usps.com/text/imm/immpg.htm
Here is a map of the world from the USPS 2010 Rate Notice 123 with a quick reference of the zones/price groups by continent/area. It is still good to use and is very handy, but I believe that 2010 was the last year it was included in the Rate Notice. After you click on the link, you will see the Table of Contents. On the far right side is "Quick References". Click on "World Map" (pages 40-41), and you will go to the information.
https://pe.usps.com/archive/pdf/dmmarchive20100607/Notice123.pdf
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10:03:17am
re: It's Been A Good Ride_____________Until Yesterday (2018 Changes to International Shipping)
If you ship within the USA using non-flat rate services, you should also print out the Domestic Zone Chart. Here is the link for that chart. You will need to enter the first three digits of your ZIP Code to get the chart that is applicable to you.
https://postcalc.usps.com/DomesticZoneChart
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10:47:51am
re: It's Been A Good Ride_____________Until Yesterday (2018 Changes to International Shipping)
Note that these changes are a result of changes made to the Universal Postal Union Convention in 2017. Here is the text of the USPS notification:
"...conforming to the requirements of the Universal Postal Convention, limiting the contents of First-Class Mail International postcard, letter, and large envelope (flat) mail to personal correspondence and non-dutiable documents. Merchandise that was formerly carried in First-Class Mail International service will instead be eligible to be contained in First-Class Package International Service pieces or another available service. "
This means that if you live in the United States and sell and ship to a buyer outside the United States, you can no longer use First Class Letter or First Class Large Envelope to send the stamps. You must use First Class Parcel at the minimum.
As you can see by the chart posted above, the costs to ship in this manner are cost-prohibitive. You may want to consider excluding sales to those living outside the USA. Here is the link to the page to do that:
https://stamporama.com/auction/auction_new.php?action=70
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re: It's Been A Good Ride_____________Until Yesterday (2018 Changes to International Shipping)
I sometimes receive approval selections from UK dealers. I assume this new rate structure will apply to me when making returns. Most of the dealers I patronize only require a proof of mailing for insurance purposes. Of course that means going to a postal counter, then you get asked to fill out a customs form, and so it goes..
As a sometime seller I currently limit sales to US only but have been willing to make exceptions at times. So much for that now.
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re: It's Been A Good Ride_____________Until Yesterday (2018 Changes to International Shipping)
So will the flip side be true where Canadian sellers will pay more to ship here?
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11:22:11am
re: It's Been A Good Ride_____________Until Yesterday (2018 Changes to International Shipping)
Is this just half of the iceberg? To quote Brechinite:
"Here in the UK we will probably have to follow the USPS as we are also members of the UPU. Unless of course our interpretation of the rules is different!
"
Does this mean we're going to see a huge increase in postage costs for items purchased from outside the US? Just looking at the US rate chart, the lowest rate is $10.00 to Canada. Assuming Canada goes the same way, we can expect roughly the same cost for Canada to the US.
That's sure going to put a crimp in buying as well as selling.
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12:00:51pm
re: It's Been A Good Ride_____________Until Yesterday (2018 Changes to International Shipping)
I appreciate the links provided. I had not seen anything nor heard anything down at the local PO regarding such a massive change.
I did use the link in the Federal Register article to express my dismay over this change, noting that the UPU regulations were not quoted which I would like to see for my self.
Also, trying to be pro-active, I wondered why, if such a change occurs, why not break down the Parcel Rate a little further, instead of lumping 1-8 oz all into one price point--suggesting it could be in line with the international letter rates with pricing for 1oz, 2oz, 3oz etc? This modification would not kill overseas business that brings in revenue for the USPS. After all, the mailer is exactly the same size used for the now defunct usage of the 1st Class International Letter Rate.
Bruce
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12:25:44pm
re: It's Been A Good Ride_____________Until Yesterday (2018 Changes to International Shipping)
I'm amazed. Also in that Federal Register article there is a name and phone number for further information.
Just moments ago, Paula picked up the phone and we discussed the issue.
I asked Paula if there was a group of people who would discuss ideas/changes, meaning in this case, the break down of the lumped sum price point for small parcel international rate which starts at 1-8 oz for region one, etc. In other words, the price for 1 oz is the same as the price for an 8 oz item. I mentioned to her that it would ease the pain of this change by allowing sellers to pay a cheaper rate by the ounce, kind of inline with the international letter rate costs of per oz but still fulfill the requirement now to ship small parcel. And most importantly for the USPS, they would not lose all the revenue for postage paid.
Here is the email address she said to send along such suggestions:
ProductClassification@usps.gov
If you send along an email be sure to include your name and address.
Bruce
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12:56:52pm
re: It's Been A Good Ride_____________Until Yesterday (2018 Changes to International Shipping)
Anglophile,
I hear what your saying. Still...I encourage people to send the email. While your experience might reflect how this will be treated, it can't be used as a model for all issues and this might move the proverbial mountain to make another change. I'm a cynical optimist!
Regarding what you said about parcels: I wouldn't be changing the mailer, it would be exactly the same size as it was for the letter rate so while being processed in the parcel lane, it still resembles a letter not a parcel.
Bruce
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re: It's Been A Good Ride_____________Until Yesterday (2018 Changes to International Shipping)
i am still mailing to Canada and worldwide using the 6x9 manila envelope and $1.15 shipping until i am told thats a problem.
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04:24:10pm
re: It's Been A Good Ride_____________Until Yesterday (2018 Changes to International Shipping)
Hopefully, it will not be a problem for you but claims of ignorance or ignoring these new regulations is not an excuse if you are caught up in a customs violation.
Bruce
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06:18:12pm
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re: It's Been A Good Ride_____________Until Yesterday (2018 Changes to International Shipping)
Royal Mail normally push a price increase through around the end of March. It will be interesting to see what they come up with especially they are now nominally a private company rather than being state owned.
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re: It's Been A Good Ride_____________Until Yesterday (2018 Changes to International Shipping)
i am a collector not a business person..but there has to be a solution..i do know two serious sellers on ebay..stacks of priority envelopes going out every day..and they are NOT AFRAID to pass along their total shipping expenses.
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re: It's Been A Good Ride_____________Until Yesterday (2018 Changes to International Shipping)
Anglophile wrote:
""I expect this will be the next exercise in unexpected consequences. A material portion of the revenue that was generated by merchandise moving in First Class International mail will be lost. It will NOT move to this more costly service because it does not make sense. Merchants will simply abandon a category of international sales. Nice going, UPU.""
I stopped selling outside the US nearly two years ago because of these changes that began occurring back then. As a former collector, a big part of selling has been the satisfaction of getting my stamps into other collectors hands wherever those collectors might reside. I miss that aspect of selling, but don't miss the added complexity and new hassles associated with customs and USPS regulatory changes. These new changes just seem to be reaffirming what we already knew for the most part.
It's difficult for me to imagine that UPU is any better than USPS when it comes to identifying the secondary impacts of their actions. I can't imagine what kind of analysis UPU undertook to determine this was a good move financially. A year from now, I'd sure like to see a comparison of the actual effect these changes have on revenue compared to what their analysis (if any) forecast for the year. I would think these changes could cause financial pain for several, if not most, UPU members. But, maybe they don't care. They're bureaucrats after all.
Tom
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re: It's Been A Good Ride_____________Until Yesterday (2018 Changes to International Shipping)
Hi Everyone;
If a few stamps are thrown into a plain envelope, how are they going to know it was paid for merchandise or just a gift. Gifts of low value are not subject to tariffs or duty, correct?
Still just sortin'....
TuskenRaider
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05:33:16am
re: It's Been A Good Ride_____________Until Yesterday (2018 Changes to International Shipping)
Gifts (or sales) of low value may not be subject to tariffs or duty but they still legally require a customs form. Whether or not any attempts at enforcement will be forthcoming is anyone's guess. They already photograph every piece of mail in the system and they have the capability of "seeing into" items so my guess would be there might be some attempt at checking things out just to determine the percent of compliance, but who knows
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06:51:54am
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re: It's Been A Good Ride_____________Until Yesterday (2018 Changes to International Shipping)
UPU may lay down the conditions and possibly a minimum charge for inter country handling.
They DO NOT tell individual mailing company's what to charge overall!!!!
I must also point out that USPS first class rate within the US is a lot less than what we pay in the UK. Our 1st class is 65pence which is 84.5 cents.
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06:56:03am
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re: It's Been A Good Ride_____________Until Yesterday (2018 Changes to International Shipping)
"If a few stamps are thrown into a plain envelope, how are they going to know it was paid for merchandise or just a gift. Gifts of low value are not subject to tariffs or duty, correct?"
Just don't include invoices, notes saying thank you for your purchases or price lists or website addresses!!!!
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re: It's Been A Good Ride_____________Until Yesterday (2018 Changes to International Shipping)
I will wait and see what the "Big Boys" do. My wife buys from Kilowareman in the Netherlands,So far one of his selling points is $1.99 shipping no matter if you purchase one item or 20. Of course people like him operate on volume..but customs slips ? He would need someone at the post office full time filling out customs slips. I Don't know how they do it..but SO Far...THEY DO !
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re: It's Been A Good Ride_____________Until Yesterday (2018 Changes to International Shipping)
Just curious... If this all about/because UPU-rules compatibility, what/where is the UPU directive that started this all? (and yes, I did try to search upu.int for it, sadly no luck)
-k-
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05:38:27pm
re: It's Been A Good Ride_____________Until Yesterday (2018 Changes to International Shipping)
I can't emphasize enough what bugs me about this USPS change.
If I ship something using small parcel rate and it weighs 2 ounces it cost the same as something the I ship using small parcel rate that weighs 8 oz. The rate structure is such that it begins at 1-8 ounces costs between $10 and 14.
Maybe that's the Achilles Heel of this move.
The clerks down at the local post office are used to seeing me nearly every day with First Class International Letter Rate mailers with a customs form with destinations in Europe, Asia, Australia, South America.
I told them today, let's keep track now and see how many mailers I ship to those places, using this expensive rate over the next month or so.
Probably not that many, meaning lost revenue for the cash-strapped USPS multiplied not just by me but many, many other people who brought revenue to the USPS by using the now defunct and cheaper First Class International Letter Rate with customs form.
Bruce
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re: It's Been A Good Ride_____________Until Yesterday (2018 Changes to International Shipping)
My question is what constitutes a Flat vs package? The USPS has flat rates up to 64 oz. How can a flat be 64 oz and not be a package? Is that you can cram it into an large envelope?
The minimum cost of a package is $10 and the flat matches the package at 32 oz.
These are all country 1 (Canada) prices.
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re: It's Been A Good Ride_____________Until Yesterday (2018 Changes to International Shipping)
A bit of a warning to anyone executing a Freedom of Information Act, you may end up having a couple of dark suited people show up on your doorstep.
After trying to get released some information regarding WWI and a revenue stamp usage, a pair of the dark suits arrived at the front door with lots of questions about the FOIA request. A bit unsettling to say the least. I did finally get to see a highly redacted document and can only assume that there was some connection with the chemical warfare in WW1 which is still considered highly sensitive. I’ll think twice before I try that again!
Don
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10:59:06am
re: It's Been A Good Ride_____________Until Yesterday (2018 Changes to International Shipping)
Don't take this as a political point please.
Surely a Freedom of Information Act is exactly that.Unless this information contravenes present day security ( in which case there is no doubt a mechanism for refusing to provide it ) the Government have no right to refuse - and as for sending out dark suits to interrogate you I am sure you could make a case for Government harrassment - which no doubt the press would have a field day with - unless of course Government censorship has been introduced via the back door. Next time this happens tape your conversation !
Going back to the original question - if you want to send me photographs of your wedding do you have to complete a customs form and pay over the odds postage...and what about material for exchange - or a gift of a lock of Aunty Lucy's hair?
Malcolm
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02:04:54pm
re: It's Been A Good Ride_____________Until Yesterday (2018 Changes to International Shipping)
Hi Malcolm,
The customs form includes a box for gift as well a merchandise gift (there may be a couple others), meaning the customs people still require contents to be identified as either a gift or merchandise on the required form. So, the items you mentioned have to be termed as one or the other on the aforementioned customs form.
Now, here's the rub. You cannot send these items via First Class International Rate as of Monday January 22, 20`18 because the USPS has now deemed that a customs form may not be used with that service.
However the customs form is required by law so that means that in order to comply with the law, the more expensive rate, Small Parcel must be used.
Again, since many, many mailers from the First Class Letter Rate will now be required to shift over to the Small Parcel rate, the USPS could solve the issue by changing the pricing increments: Right now the Small Parcel Rate begins its pricing rate for items that weigh between 1-8 ounces. So, if a mailer weighs 1.5 ounces it is charged the same amount for postage as something that weighs 8 ounces. This is not fair. And I believe that the USPS will lose substantial revenue when people refuse to ship items of low value, using a prohibitively expensive rate.
I shipped a cover to Australia today--the mailer weighed 1.5 oz and rather than costing me $2.34 (the old service), it now cost me $12.61! It was an auction item and once bid before the change, I couldn't change it to the new rate nor did I feel it would be right to cancel the sale so I ate this one. The item won cost $8.50. All my other items listed reflect the newer, higher price for International Parcel. Don't think I'll be getting much business from foreign buyers anymore.
If the USPS would break down the small parcel rate to increments of 1 oz, 2 oz. etc and price accordingly, that would cushion us all here in the USA against this reprehensible rate increase upon mailers that have not changed in size but must use the higher rate now.
I called among others, my federal senator's office, explained what is going on and the person who handles issues with the USPS felt the case had merit and agreed to take the case. I try not to be too cynical, I'm a realist, I know the chances but still it's worth the effort.
Communicate the issue with people like federal Congressmen/women who might be able to force a modification.
Bruce
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re: It's Been A Good Ride_____________Until Yesterday (2018 Changes to International Shipping)
Bruce said in the post immediately above:
"I called among others, my federal senator's office, explained what is going on and the person who handles issues with the USPS felt the case had merit and agreed to take the case. I try not to be too cynical, I'm a realist, I know the chances but still it's worth the effort.
Communicate the issue with people like federal Congressmen/women who might be able to force a modification."
I wanted to highlight this.
I used to work on advocacy issues on behalf of several non-profits (as a volunteer), and support what Bruce is saying.
Typically, their offices (both US Senators and US Congresspersons) are structured so that you would contact their local office. This falls under the category of "constituent services." Usually, you call or set up an appointment and meet with someone from the local office, who then becomes your primary contact, and the issue works its way up the chain to the elected official.
But it may also be the case that their DC office is the right point of contact. (Your local office can help determine that, or just contact both!)
For those who think this effort is pointless, I can personally speak of several successes on behalf of those non-profits I worked with.
-- Dave
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03:47:05pm
re: It's Been A Good Ride_____________Until Yesterday (2018 Changes to International Shipping)
The problem here is also that the countries the items are being sent to are paid a portion of what you pay for delivering once the mail is in the destination country. Apparently from reading threads here and on other sites the general feeling around the world has been that the US is not paying it's fair share.
Postal rates here in the states are extremely low compared to other nations. We are not an island in this situation, there are considerations outside of our interests at play here.
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06:44:03pm
re: It's Been A Good Ride_____________Until Yesterday (2018 Changes to International Shipping)
"You cannot send these items via First Class International Rate as of Monday January 22, 20`18 because the USPS has now deemed that a customs form may not be used with that service.
"
You can send the items via First Class International Parcel.
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09:01:29pm
re: It's Been A Good Ride_____________Until Yesterday (2018 Changes to International Shipping)
Yes, I inadvertently left out the word Letter in my statement: You cannot send these items via First Class International LETTER Rate as of Monday January 22, 20`18 because the USPS has now deemed that a customs form may not be used with that service.
Bruce
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Silence in the face of adversity is the father of complicity and collusion, the first cousins of conspiracy..
29 Jan 2018
02:18:50am
re: It's Been A Good Ride_____________Until Yesterday (2018 Changes to International Shipping)
But, did the rate for a simple letter to Canada rise from $1.15 or from $1.20 or did it not? Looking for a simple answer somewhere. How much is the postage ?
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re: It's Been A Good Ride_____________Until Yesterday (2018 Changes to International Shipping)
For international letters to any country, the rate for the first ounce did not increase, so it's still $1.15. The upside for a letter to Canada is that this rate is for the first 2 ounces. That's not true for any other countries, including Mexico.
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Silence in the face of adversity is the father of complicity and collusion, the first cousins of conspiracy..
29 Jan 2018
12:41:04pm
re: It's Been A Good Ride_____________Until Yesterday (2018 Changes to International Shipping)
Thank you, That is simple enough.
I had tried to find a simple note in all the pages
of the postal rates but if it is there
I missed it. I was afraid I had been asleep again
at the switch, as it were.
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01:04:53pm
re: It's Been A Good Ride_____________Until Yesterday (2018 Changes to International Shipping)
The only real change has been that you can no longer include anything besides the letter and use First Class International Letter rate. Anything other than a letter or document must be shipped as a First Class International Parcel, be it merchandise or gift. The cost is several times that of a letter.
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re: It's Been A Good Ride_____________Until Yesterday (2018 Changes to International Shipping)
Here was that summary sheet from the most recent USPS document (Notice 123) as of 1/21/18, the date of the rate changes, that I had posted near the start of the thread.
Although I highlighted the First-Class Package International rates, at the upper-left of that page it shows the First-Class International postcard and letter rates.
(I tried to repost this chart late last night my time (Pacific), but kept getting timed out, so I figured it had to do with SOR's backup routines, since it would've been several hours later at SOR World Headquarters :-) )
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Silence in the face of adversity is the father of complicity and collusion, the first cousins of conspiracy..
29 Jan 2018
02:07:15pm
re: It's Been A Good Ride_____________Until Yesterday (2018 Changes to International Shipping)
No doubt it was there, but I simply failed to see it.
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re: It's Been A Good Ride_____________Until Yesterday (2018 Changes to International Shipping)
Oh, no problem at all. There was a lot of information flying back and forth in that thread.
(I hope my immediate post above with the chart didn't sound snarky. That was not my intention at all. If it did, please accept my apologies.)
-- Dave
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re: It's Been A Good Ride_____________Until Yesterday (2018 Changes to International Shipping)
i am shipping a "Christmas card" to Thailand today..i do not expect any problems !
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01:32:32am
re: It's Been A Good Ride_____________Until Yesterday (2018 Changes to International Shipping)
This should make everyone feel better....
Today, I received a small package from my uncle in Germany. It contained a flash stick, and weighed less than 8 ounces. It was shipped priority air mail. Postage paid was Euros $3.70 ($4.59 USD). If I had mailed this to my uncle, it would have cost me $14.00 USD (11.28 Euros).
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re: It's Been A Good Ride_____________Until Yesterday (2018 Changes to International Shipping)
I asked two separate dealers at a stamp show today how they have handled the increased cost for overseas packets. They both said the exact same thing...their clerks know exactly what they are doing and do not care..they are shipping international packets as first class mail...4 ounces i believe.
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02:33:33am
re: It's Been A Good Ride_____________Until Yesterday (2018 Changes to International Shipping)
On Saturday, I talked to one of the clerks at my post office. She said that many smaller mailers have done exactly as I have, and are no longer shipping outside the USA. She agreed that in the long run it will hurt the USPS.
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03:00:00pm
re: It's Been A Good Ride_____________Until Yesterday (2018 Changes to International Shipping)
While dealers or anyone else for that matter may ship merchandise via First Class Letter, it is highly unlikely they are doing so using the obligatory customs label on the mailer.
That means they run afoul of customs law and who knows what host of USPS postal rules. Clerks who knowingly ignore the rules endanger their job.
It also means that if they are caught at the US end, they will likely pay a fine or at the very least, lose their merchandise, possibly both.
Definitely, this newer regulation will result in a loss of revenue to the USPS.
Bruce
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