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United States/Stamps : James A Garfield color variety question

 

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TuskenRaider
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23 Jan 2018
08:10:10am
Hi Everyone;

Here are a couple of items that have me stumped. Can anyone enlighten me on what these are?

Image Not Found

The top item was cut from a three-fold flier, printed on 8.5" x 11" paper. As you can see it appears to be a form of postal stationary?

The CDS is marked "POST OFFICE POST OFFICE" inside of double circles. The date appears to be 11,12,2019. What kind of date marking is this?

The next item is the three James A. Garfield stamps. They appear to be brown or chocolate brown. My 1979 Scott catalog shows #205 to be yellow brown, and 205a to be brown, and 205b is shown as grey brown.

My 1999 Scott catalog shows only 205 yellow brown, and the same in my 2008 Scott catalog. Whatever happened to the other colors? The 1999 US specialized still shows those two colors, however, they have removed the 'a' from 205a and the'b' from 205b. It seems that this is the same for many us stamps, where the lowercase letters for a minor catalog # have been removed and just the colors listed? what gives with this numbering system?

Any guesses anyone?

Can someone look up in a newer catalog and see how it is listed? Thank you in advance.

still sortin'....
TuskenRaider

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DouglasGPerry
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APS Member #196859

23 Jan 2018
09:01:38am
re: James A Garfield color variety question

TuskenRaider,

The 2018 Scott Specialized Catalogue lists #205 yellow brown, with additional color varieties (brown, grey brown) under that heading but with no minor catalogue numbering (205a, 205b, etc.). (There is a separate listing, of course, for #205C special printing on porous paper, which doesn't apply to this discussion.)

--Doug

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TuskenRaider
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23 Jan 2018
09:33:25am
re: James A Garfield color variety question

Hi Doug;

Thank you so much for the look-up.

Would you consider this stamp to be brown, or grey brown. It doesn't look like yellow brown at all. There is plenty of white space next to #205 yellow brown in my Scott National, so I guess I'll mount it there.

By the way I received these orphans from a friend of mine on here who was needing to find a home for a bunch of US stamps with minor faults.

Thanks again.

Still just sortin'....
TuskenRaider

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51Studebaker
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Dialysis, damned if you do...dead if you don't

23 Jan 2018
10:53:55am
re: James A Garfield color variety question

My opinion is that the ink found on this era brown stamps is unstable. Even if you assemble a large number of mint stamps the number of different hues seems to exceed the realm of possibility of different print runs. When looking at large number of used stamps the color/hue range is even greater.

So I have always assumed that this brown ink changes color over time and/or with environmental conditions.
Don

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TuskenRaider
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23 Jan 2018
11:28:56am
re: James A Garfield color variety question

Hi Don;

Thanks for the reply. However they are so close in shade of color, I will have to assume that they were printed that way.

Since Scott US specialized lists a brown and grey brown variety, I'll assume that they are brown, but I'm not sure what grey brown would look like. Maybe a shade closer to black brown?

Still just sortin'....
TuskenRaider

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BenFranklin1902
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Tom in Exton, PA

23 Jan 2018
10:30:05pm
re: James A Garfield color variety question

Stamp ink colors weren't that important to the printers back then. In my 1902 Ben Franklin collection, the color of the stamp progressed from a bright green in 1903 all the way to a deep blue green in 1908 at the end of the printing. As a kid I assembled the color chart by collecting copies of the stamp on post cards, since they all had a dated postmark.

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AntoniusRa
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The truth is within and only you can reveal it

23 Jan 2018
11:43:49pm
re: James A Garfield color variety question

Below is a scan of 205's from my stock book. It looks like there at least three major shades and maybe a few lesser.

Image Not Found


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TuskenRaider
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24 Jan 2018
06:55:38pm
re: James A Garfield color variety question

Hi Everyone;

Thank you AntoniusRa, for the scan. Wow there sure a bunch of different shades there.
I think I see a couple that almost look to be a reddish brown.

I think I'll call mine brown and mount to the right of the yellow brown 205 spot in my National album
until I get more copies and find one the looks like yellow brown.

The top item of my scan still has me puzzled? It doesn't look like computer vended postage, because
they have a bar code with little square shapes on them. Is this some form of postal stationary? It shows
no permit number, so not permit or metered mail?

The stamp image appears to be colored dots like low-cost color printing...ink jet? And the cancellation
looks like those sprayed-on ink jet cancelers.

Still just sortin'....
TuskenRaider

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smaier
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Sally

24 Jan 2018
11:01:50pm
re: James A Garfield color variety question

TuskenRaider -

Your top stamp reminds me of some "stamps" that were printed on envelopes years ago by some organization like the National Wildlife Foundation or AARP or something (the actual name escapes me and I haven't been able to find any of them).

They were printed and cancelled very similar to yours. I cannot remember where they were placed on the envelopes though because they certainly weren't valid postage. When/if I find them, I will post them.

Sally

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oldtriguy1960
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25 Jan 2018
07:08:43am
re: James A Garfield color variety question

That top left stamp is cut out from a Dish Network advertisement flyer that was included in mass mail out cupons in junk mail.
I have two complete sheets that I kept because of the stamp "lookalike" they used.



Dave N

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smaier
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Sally

31 Jan 2018
10:55:05am
re: James A Garfield color variety question

I received one of the flyers for Dish network in a pile of junk mail yesterday. It was inside some glossy advertising. Definitely not valid for postage. Must be one of their new promotions.

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malcolm197

16 Mar 2018
07:33:11am
re: James A Garfield color variety question

Marketing people will tell you that junk mail with a stamp attached is X times more likely to be read than a meter. Therefore smart marketing types will put stamp-like designs on envelopes to encourage you to open the envelope. They don't actually have to look like a real stamp but just give the impression on a passing glance.

Having said that in the UK you can have a PPI ( post paid impresssion ) envelope with a very realistic 2nd class Machin printed on the envelope. The actual "paying" part of the envelope is the PPI licence number imprint not the stamp picture. I imagine the user would have to pay a copyright fee for the use of the stamp image.

Malcolm

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BenFranklin1902
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Tom in Exton, PA

16 Mar 2018
11:22:44am
re: James A Garfield color variety question

"Marketing people will tell you that junk mail with a stamp attached is X times more likely to be read than a meter."



Here's a thread I started sometime back about just these things...


https://stamporama.com/discboard/disc_main.php?action=20&id=15405#141199


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Author/Postings
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TuskenRaider

23 Jan 2018
08:10:10am

Hi Everyone;

Here are a couple of items that have me stumped. Can anyone enlighten me on what these are?

Image Not Found

The top item was cut from a three-fold flier, printed on 8.5" x 11" paper. As you can see it appears to be a form of postal stationary?

The CDS is marked "POST OFFICE POST OFFICE" inside of double circles. The date appears to be 11,12,2019. What kind of date marking is this?

The next item is the three James A. Garfield stamps. They appear to be brown or chocolate brown. My 1979 Scott catalog shows #205 to be yellow brown, and 205a to be brown, and 205b is shown as grey brown.

My 1999 Scott catalog shows only 205 yellow brown, and the same in my 2008 Scott catalog. Whatever happened to the other colors? The 1999 US specialized still shows those two colors, however, they have removed the 'a' from 205a and the'b' from 205b. It seems that this is the same for many us stamps, where the lowercase letters for a minor catalog # have been removed and just the colors listed? what gives with this numbering system?

Any guesses anyone?

Can someone look up in a newer catalog and see how it is listed? Thank you in advance.

still sortin'....
TuskenRaider

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DouglasGPerry

APS Member #196859
23 Jan 2018
09:01:38am

re: James A Garfield color variety question

TuskenRaider,

The 2018 Scott Specialized Catalogue lists #205 yellow brown, with additional color varieties (brown, grey brown) under that heading but with no minor catalogue numbering (205a, 205b, etc.). (There is a separate listing, of course, for #205C special printing on porous paper, which doesn't apply to this discussion.)

--Doug

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TuskenRaider

23 Jan 2018
09:33:25am

re: James A Garfield color variety question

Hi Doug;

Thank you so much for the look-up.

Would you consider this stamp to be brown, or grey brown. It doesn't look like yellow brown at all. There is plenty of white space next to #205 yellow brown in my Scott National, so I guess I'll mount it there.

By the way I received these orphans from a friend of mine on here who was needing to find a home for a bunch of US stamps with minor faults.

Thanks again.

Still just sortin'....
TuskenRaider

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51Studebaker

Dialysis, damned if you do...dead if you don't
23 Jan 2018
10:53:55am

re: James A Garfield color variety question

My opinion is that the ink found on this era brown stamps is unstable. Even if you assemble a large number of mint stamps the number of different hues seems to exceed the realm of possibility of different print runs. When looking at large number of used stamps the color/hue range is even greater.

So I have always assumed that this brown ink changes color over time and/or with environmental conditions.
Don

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TuskenRaider

23 Jan 2018
11:28:56am

re: James A Garfield color variety question

Hi Don;

Thanks for the reply. However they are so close in shade of color, I will have to assume that they were printed that way.

Since Scott US specialized lists a brown and grey brown variety, I'll assume that they are brown, but I'm not sure what grey brown would look like. Maybe a shade closer to black brown?

Still just sortin'....
TuskenRaider

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BenFranklin1902

Tom in Exton, PA
23 Jan 2018
10:30:05pm

re: James A Garfield color variety question

Stamp ink colors weren't that important to the printers back then. In my 1902 Ben Franklin collection, the color of the stamp progressed from a bright green in 1903 all the way to a deep blue green in 1908 at the end of the printing. As a kid I assembled the color chart by collecting copies of the stamp on post cards, since they all had a dated postmark.

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AntoniusRa

The truth is within and only you can reveal it
23 Jan 2018
11:43:49pm

re: James A Garfield color variety question

Below is a scan of 205's from my stock book. It looks like there at least three major shades and maybe a few lesser.

Image Not Found


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mitch.seymourfamily. ...
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TuskenRaider

24 Jan 2018
06:55:38pm

re: James A Garfield color variety question

Hi Everyone;

Thank you AntoniusRa, for the scan. Wow there sure a bunch of different shades there.
I think I see a couple that almost look to be a reddish brown.

I think I'll call mine brown and mount to the right of the yellow brown 205 spot in my National album
until I get more copies and find one the looks like yellow brown.

The top item of my scan still has me puzzled? It doesn't look like computer vended postage, because
they have a bar code with little square shapes on them. Is this some form of postal stationary? It shows
no permit number, so not permit or metered mail?

The stamp image appears to be colored dots like low-cost color printing...ink jet? And the cancellation
looks like those sprayed-on ink jet cancelers.

Still just sortin'....
TuskenRaider

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smaier

Sally
24 Jan 2018
11:01:50pm

re: James A Garfield color variety question

TuskenRaider -

Your top stamp reminds me of some "stamps" that were printed on envelopes years ago by some organization like the National Wildlife Foundation or AARP or something (the actual name escapes me and I haven't been able to find any of them).

They were printed and cancelled very similar to yours. I cannot remember where they were placed on the envelopes though because they certainly weren't valid postage. When/if I find them, I will post them.

Sally

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oldtriguy1960

25 Jan 2018
07:08:43am

re: James A Garfield color variety question

That top left stamp is cut out from a Dish Network advertisement flyer that was included in mass mail out cupons in junk mail.
I have two complete sheets that I kept because of the stamp "lookalike" they used.



Dave N

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smaier

Sally
31 Jan 2018
10:55:05am

re: James A Garfield color variety question

I received one of the flyers for Dish network in a pile of junk mail yesterday. It was inside some glossy advertising. Definitely not valid for postage. Must be one of their new promotions.

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malcolm197

16 Mar 2018
07:33:11am

re: James A Garfield color variety question

Marketing people will tell you that junk mail with a stamp attached is X times more likely to be read than a meter. Therefore smart marketing types will put stamp-like designs on envelopes to encourage you to open the envelope. They don't actually have to look like a real stamp but just give the impression on a passing glance.

Having said that in the UK you can have a PPI ( post paid impresssion ) envelope with a very realistic 2nd class Machin printed on the envelope. The actual "paying" part of the envelope is the PPI licence number imprint not the stamp picture. I imagine the user would have to pay a copyright fee for the use of the stamp image.

Malcolm

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BenFranklin1902

Tom in Exton, PA
16 Mar 2018
11:22:44am

re: James A Garfield color variety question

"Marketing people will tell you that junk mail with a stamp attached is X times more likely to be read than a meter."



Here's a thread I started sometime back about just these things...


https://stamporama.com/discboard/disc_main.php?action=20&id=15405#141199


Like
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