Discussion - Member to Member Sales - Research Center
Discussion - Member to Member Sales - Research Center
First, let me say that, in the few days I have been a member of this forum, I am EXTREMELY impressed with the expertise I've seen displayed among the other members! And, the historical bent of many of you is right up my alley. So, I'm here for awhile!
Anyway, in this thread I'm imposling a Challenge.
The objective of this Challenge is to see how deeply we can probe the depths of expertise among SOR members in the realm of distinguishing between real and fake cancellations.
The rules are simple:
1. post images of cancelled stamps that catalog at >= 3X the value of their mint versions, for expert assessment by SOR members.
2. No ad hominem attacks.
The first rule means we'll be looking at stamps that beg to have faked cancellations.
The second rule avoids uncomfortable judgments like, "You paid WAY too much for that!"
I'd say I have at least 1000 items in my collection I'd love to have expertized.
I'll start with these, from my collection:
Stamp on L is Scott #9, issued 1864. I think I paid about $20 for it. Ratio of Used to Mint value is just over 3. It has some condition issues, but this stamp is hard to find used.
Stamp on R is Scott #7, issued 1865. I got this recently on eBay for $50 on a BuyItNow. I had been looking many months for a used example, and it was the last one I needed to complete my Schleswig-Holstein collection. I believe it has a Ratzeburg cancel, 1865.
This may be problematic as the Lauenburg dukedom (which contained Ratzeburg) passed to the Prussian Hohenzollern dynasty that same year. This stamp's ratio of Used to Mint value is over 16. My 1980 Scott catalog values it at $1000.
Authentic or faked cancellations?
OK now, if you got 'em, post 'em!
Thanks!
4 Members
like this post.
Login to Like.
Paul, thanks for posting this! I'm definitely NOT an expert, but I have the same dilemma as I try to collect used stamps where possible.
Most recently, I had problems with Switzerland in the 1860's and 1870's, where some used stamps catalog for 100x mint, or even more. One trusted dealer advised me to stay away from that area until I became more familiar with the material. At the time I was looking at Switzerland Scott #54. The 2013 CV is $3.50 mint and $500.00 used. Today, Ebay has several auctions for Sc# 54 used, ranging from a few dollars to several hundred dollars. Here are several options (s&h costs omitted):
I'll continue to follow the advice of "stay away" from these for a while longer. Are there any obvious clues or rules of thumb on cancel authenticity?
-Steve
4 Members
like this post.
Login to Like.
Thanks GeoStamper!
One thing I've been doing lately is attempting to match the cancellation styles by place/date. Not sure yet how fruitful that might turn out to be, but of the 9 stamps you depict, there are 3 where this would be possible (Tribourg 1861, Bern 1876, and Zurich 1881).
For example, if you search "Bern 1876" in eBay right now, you'll find this item:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/371606186316
The cancellation on that cover matches the one on the stamp in the upper left pretty closely!
For what it's worth, I would be highly suspicious of the cancellation on the stamp in the lower right hand corner (Bern 1880?). And, the one on the blue stamp doesn't seem to give you enough to even get a start on verifying its authenticity.
Login to Like
this post
I don't collect WW, but this should be quite interesting and educational!
2 Members
like this post.
Login to Like.
I am not an expert either but I would suggest that the "double strike" is not likely to be in the repertoire of a forger !
As for the others a Swiss specialists website might assist.
You also need to consider that forgers have been known to put a forged postmark onto a forged stamp, so you need to check the credentials of the stamp before you look at the postmark.
Sorry to double your workload.
Malcolm
Login to Like
this post
Hi GeoStamper,
The postmark on the yellow stamp is a "Bern giant" parcel postmark where the figure "III" represents the month of March.
Login to Like
this post
10:35:32am
Hi Folks,
First, let me say that, in the few days I have been a member of this forum, I am EXTREMELY impressed with the expertise I've seen displayed among the other members! And, the historical bent of many of you is right up my alley. So, I'm here for awhile!
Anyway, in this thread I'm imposling a Challenge.
The objective of this Challenge is to see how deeply we can probe the depths of expertise among SOR members in the realm of distinguishing between real and fake cancellations.
The rules are simple:
1. post images of cancelled stamps that catalog at >= 3X the value of their mint versions, for expert assessment by SOR members.
2. No ad hominem attacks.
The first rule means we'll be looking at stamps that beg to have faked cancellations.
The second rule avoids uncomfortable judgments like, "You paid WAY too much for that!"
I'd say I have at least 1000 items in my collection I'd love to have expertized.
I'll start with these, from my collection:
Stamp on L is Scott #9, issued 1864. I think I paid about $20 for it. Ratio of Used to Mint value is just over 3. It has some condition issues, but this stamp is hard to find used.
Stamp on R is Scott #7, issued 1865. I got this recently on eBay for $50 on a BuyItNow. I had been looking many months for a used example, and it was the last one I needed to complete my Schleswig-Holstein collection. I believe it has a Ratzeburg cancel, 1865.
This may be problematic as the Lauenburg dukedom (which contained Ratzeburg) passed to the Prussian Hohenzollern dynasty that same year. This stamp's ratio of Used to Mint value is over 16. My 1980 Scott catalog values it at $1000.
Authentic or faked cancellations?
OK now, if you got 'em, post 'em!
Thanks!
4 Members
like this post.
Login to Like.
re: Challenge: Fake cancellations, sussing them out.
Paul, thanks for posting this! I'm definitely NOT an expert, but I have the same dilemma as I try to collect used stamps where possible.
Most recently, I had problems with Switzerland in the 1860's and 1870's, where some used stamps catalog for 100x mint, or even more. One trusted dealer advised me to stay away from that area until I became more familiar with the material. At the time I was looking at Switzerland Scott #54. The 2013 CV is $3.50 mint and $500.00 used. Today, Ebay has several auctions for Sc# 54 used, ranging from a few dollars to several hundred dollars. Here are several options (s&h costs omitted):
I'll continue to follow the advice of "stay away" from these for a while longer. Are there any obvious clues or rules of thumb on cancel authenticity?
-Steve
4 Members
like this post.
Login to Like.
12:06:40pm
re: Challenge: Fake cancellations, sussing them out.
Thanks GeoStamper!
One thing I've been doing lately is attempting to match the cancellation styles by place/date. Not sure yet how fruitful that might turn out to be, but of the 9 stamps you depict, there are 3 where this would be possible (Tribourg 1861, Bern 1876, and Zurich 1881).
For example, if you search "Bern 1876" in eBay right now, you'll find this item:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/371606186316
The cancellation on that cover matches the one on the stamp in the upper left pretty closely!
For what it's worth, I would be highly suspicious of the cancellation on the stamp in the lower right hand corner (Bern 1880?). And, the one on the blue stamp doesn't seem to give you enough to even get a start on verifying its authenticity.
Login to Like
this post
re: Challenge: Fake cancellations, sussing them out.
I don't collect WW, but this should be quite interesting and educational!
2 Members
like this post.
Login to Like.
12:27:44pm
re: Challenge: Fake cancellations, sussing them out.
I am not an expert either but I would suggest that the "double strike" is not likely to be in the repertoire of a forger !
As for the others a Swiss specialists website might assist.
You also need to consider that forgers have been known to put a forged postmark onto a forged stamp, so you need to check the credentials of the stamp before you look at the postmark.
Sorry to double your workload.
Malcolm
Login to Like
this post
re: Challenge: Fake cancellations, sussing them out.
Hi GeoStamper,
The postmark on the yellow stamp is a "Bern giant" parcel postmark where the figure "III" represents the month of March.
Login to Like
this post