Discussion - Member to Member Sales - Research Center
Discussion - Member to Member Sales - Research Center
For your consideration, here are 3 stamps from my WWII collection:
The one at the upper left I presume to be a genuine Scott #440, the Petain stamp, with a(possibly faked) post-liberation overprint. I image this stamp simply for comparison with the one at the top right. The stamp at the top right I presume to be an example of what my Scott catalog describes as "forged by the French Underground and used to frank clandestine journals, etc. from February to June, 1944. The forgeries were ungummed, both perforated 11-1/2 and imperforate, with a back handstamp covering six stamps and including the words "Ateller des Faux."" My copy does not have the back handstamp.
Now, my question is, what is the stamp at the bottom? I obtained this stamp in a lot of French WWII issues. It appears also to be a forgery by the same hand, but of a design that does not resemble any genuine France issue, or the described Petain forgery. It is on a thick, fairly soft, beige paper very similar to the paper that the Petain forgery is printed on. The Petain forgery is perfed 11-1/2, but the bottom stamp is perfed 11.
The CDS on the bottom stamp is July 29, 1944. If genuine, this would seem to be a late usage, relative to the Liberation of Paris, August 25, 1944.
Opinions on its provenance as well as comments on the cancellation invited!
Genuine Forgery? (love that juxtaposition of words!)
Fantasy?
Album Weed?
Thanks!
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Actually, under magnification, that cancel appears to be AUGUST 29, 1944.
If genuine, late indeed!
Comments please!
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Almost looks like de Gaulle under the cancellation.
If so, maybe a propaganda stamp used by the resistance? This is soley a guess on my part.
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Hi doomboy,
Yes, the bottom stamp is a resistance stamp showing de Gaulle from Nice in 1943.
It was used in Nice, Marseille, Cannes, Ajaccio etc.
I've no idea if it's genuine or not but the stamp is listed in the Maury catalogue.
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This is referred to as the DeGaulle Profile; the French also produced a DeGaulle stamp in full face. Printed by the French underground - Forces Frangais l'Intirieur (FFI) between 1941 and 1943, the 1.50 francs red-brown is of poor quality.
Printed in brown on pale cream paper or on grayish paper; in sheets of 9 (3x3) with clear margins all around. They are known perforated and imperforate. The text in the central oval is Postes Francaises, as on the genuine stamp that was used as a model.
They were produced in Nice by the FFI Combat resistance group.......
The DeGaulle Full Face version was printed with the text Republique Francaise in the central oval, and was of much better quality.
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The overprinted stamp is a Liberation issue from Lyon - one of the more common of these sets. It is Ceres (Lyon) no.10. There is no reason to assume the overprint is faked.
Many cities and locales issued these stamps after the liberation of August 1944. Fourteen of them were reconnues par l'administration, while Ceres list a further 28 which n'ont pas ete reconnues par le ministre des PTT.
There exists at least one set unlisted by my Ceres catalogue, which dates from 1982 (that from Metz), which I have, and assume it, too, was unrecognised by the PTT.
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Thanks, guys!
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Nigel:
Where in the Maury guide would I find the de Gaulle stamp? I did a look through the 2017 prior to posting (I admit rather hurridly), but didn't see anything similar other than the Petain issue that it was modeled on. Was I careless looking through the Liberation issues?
Darryl (doomboy)
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Hi doomboy,
I have the 2009 edition and it's under "Faux de la Résistance" (page 1337) in Volume 2.
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Good discussion everyone. I learned a lot.
rrr...
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Nigel:
Thanks - found M. de Gaulle where you said he'd be found (p. 958 in Maury 2016)
If it is authentic, it's listed @ 55 Euros.
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05:23:45pm
Hi Folks,
For your consideration, here are 3 stamps from my WWII collection:
The one at the upper left I presume to be a genuine Scott #440, the Petain stamp, with a(possibly faked) post-liberation overprint. I image this stamp simply for comparison with the one at the top right. The stamp at the top right I presume to be an example of what my Scott catalog describes as "forged by the French Underground and used to frank clandestine journals, etc. from February to June, 1944. The forgeries were ungummed, both perforated 11-1/2 and imperforate, with a back handstamp covering six stamps and including the words "Ateller des Faux."" My copy does not have the back handstamp.
Now, my question is, what is the stamp at the bottom? I obtained this stamp in a lot of French WWII issues. It appears also to be a forgery by the same hand, but of a design that does not resemble any genuine France issue, or the described Petain forgery. It is on a thick, fairly soft, beige paper very similar to the paper that the Petain forgery is printed on. The Petain forgery is perfed 11-1/2, but the bottom stamp is perfed 11.
The CDS on the bottom stamp is July 29, 1944. If genuine, this would seem to be a late usage, relative to the Liberation of Paris, August 25, 1944.
Opinions on its provenance as well as comments on the cancellation invited!
Genuine Forgery? (love that juxtaposition of words!)
Fantasy?
Album Weed?
Thanks!
3 Members
like this post.
Login to Like.
06:40:13pm
re: France WWII forgeries
Actually, under magnification, that cancel appears to be AUGUST 29, 1944.
If genuine, late indeed!
Comments please!
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re: France WWII forgeries
Almost looks like de Gaulle under the cancellation.
If so, maybe a propaganda stamp used by the resistance? This is soley a guess on my part.
Login to Like
this post
re: France WWII forgeries
Hi doomboy,
Yes, the bottom stamp is a resistance stamp showing de Gaulle from Nice in 1943.
It was used in Nice, Marseille, Cannes, Ajaccio etc.
I've no idea if it's genuine or not but the stamp is listed in the Maury catalogue.
Login to Like
this post
re: France WWII forgeries
This is referred to as the DeGaulle Profile; the French also produced a DeGaulle stamp in full face. Printed by the French underground - Forces Frangais l'Intirieur (FFI) between 1941 and 1943, the 1.50 francs red-brown is of poor quality.
Printed in brown on pale cream paper or on grayish paper; in sheets of 9 (3x3) with clear margins all around. They are known perforated and imperforate. The text in the central oval is Postes Francaises, as on the genuine stamp that was used as a model.
They were produced in Nice by the FFI Combat resistance group.......
The DeGaulle Full Face version was printed with the text Republique Francaise in the central oval, and was of much better quality.
3 Members
like this post.
Login to Like.
re: France WWII forgeries
The overprinted stamp is a Liberation issue from Lyon - one of the more common of these sets. It is Ceres (Lyon) no.10. There is no reason to assume the overprint is faked.
Many cities and locales issued these stamps after the liberation of August 1944. Fourteen of them were reconnues par l'administration, while Ceres list a further 28 which n'ont pas ete reconnues par le ministre des PTT.
There exists at least one set unlisted by my Ceres catalogue, which dates from 1982 (that from Metz), which I have, and assume it, too, was unrecognised by the PTT.
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this post
re: France WWII forgeries
Nigel:
Where in the Maury guide would I find the de Gaulle stamp? I did a look through the 2017 prior to posting (I admit rather hurridly), but didn't see anything similar other than the Petain issue that it was modeled on. Was I careless looking through the Liberation issues?
Darryl (doomboy)
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this post
re: France WWII forgeries
Hi doomboy,
I have the 2009 edition and it's under "Faux de la Résistance" (page 1337) in Volume 2.
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this post
re: France WWII forgeries
Good discussion everyone. I learned a lot.
rrr...
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this post
re: France WWII forgeries
Nigel:
Thanks - found M. de Gaulle where you said he'd be found (p. 958 in Maury 2016)
If it is authentic, it's listed @ 55 Euros.
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