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Europe/Other : France WWII forgeries

 

Author
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pigdoc

09 Jan 2018
05:23:45pm
Hi Folks,

For your consideration, here are 3 stamps from my WWII collection:Image Not Found
The one at the upper left I presume to be a genuine Scott #440, the Petain stamp, with a(possibly faked) post-liberation overprint. I image this stamp simply for comparison with the one at the top right. The stamp at the top right I presume to be an example of what my Scott catalog describes as "forged by the French Underground and used to frank clandestine journals, etc. from February to June, 1944. The forgeries were ungummed, both perforated 11-1/2 and imperforate, with a back handstamp covering six stamps and including the words "Ateller des Faux."" My copy does not have the back handstamp.

Now, my question is, what is the stamp at the bottom? I obtained this stamp in a lot of French WWII issues. It appears also to be a forgery by the same hand, but of a design that does not resemble any genuine France issue, or the described Petain forgery. It is on a thick, fairly soft, beige paper very similar to the paper that the Petain forgery is printed on. The Petain forgery is perfed 11-1/2, but the bottom stamp is perfed 11.

The CDS on the bottom stamp is July 29, 1944. If genuine, this would seem to be a late usage, relative to the Liberation of Paris, August 25, 1944.

Opinions on its provenance as well as comments on the cancellation invited!
Genuine Forgery? (love that juxtaposition of words!)
Fantasy?
Album Weed?

Thanks!
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pigdoc

09 Jan 2018
06:40:13pm
re: France WWII forgeries

Actually, under magnification, that cancel appears to be AUGUST 29, 1944.
If genuine, late indeed!

Comments please!

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doomboy
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09 Jan 2018
06:54:25pm
re: France WWII forgeries

Almost looks like de Gaulle under the cancellation.

If so, maybe a propaganda stamp used by the resistance? This is soley a guess on my part.

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nigelc
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09 Jan 2018
08:38:57pm
re: France WWII forgeries

Hi doomboy,

Yes, the bottom stamp is a resistance stamp showing de Gaulle from Nice in 1943.

It was used in Nice, Marseille, Cannes, Ajaccio etc.

I've no idea if it's genuine or not but the stamp is listed in the Maury catalogue.


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Ningpo
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09 Jan 2018
08:45:42pm
re: France WWII forgeries

This is referred to as the DeGaulle Profile; the French also produced a DeGaulle stamp in full face. Printed by the French underground - Forces Frangais l'Intirieur (FFI) between 1941 and 1943, the 1.50 francs red-brown is of poor quality.

Printed in brown on pale cream paper or on grayish paper; in sheets of 9 (3x3) with clear margins all around. They are known perforated and imperforate. The text in the central oval is Postes Francaises, as on the genuine stamp that was used as a model.

They were produced in Nice by the FFI Combat resistance group.......

Image Not Found

The DeGaulle Full Face version was printed with the text Republique Francaise in the central oval, and was of much better quality.

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Guthrum
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10 Jan 2018
05:14:55am
re: France WWII forgeries

The overprinted stamp is a Liberation issue from Lyon - one of the more common of these sets. It is Ceres (Lyon) no.10. There is no reason to assume the overprint is faked.

Many cities and locales issued these stamps after the liberation of August 1944. Fourteen of them were reconnues par l'administration, while Ceres list a further 28 which n'ont pas ete reconnues par le ministre des PTT.

There exists at least one set unlisted by my Ceres catalogue, which dates from 1982 (that from Metz), which I have, and assume it, too, was unrecognised by the PTT.

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pigdoc

10 Jan 2018
10:58:59am
re: France WWII forgeries

Thanks, guys!

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doomboy
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10 Jan 2018
12:21:45pm
re: France WWII forgeries

Nigel:

Where in the Maury guide would I find the de Gaulle stamp? I did a look through the 2017 prior to posting (I admit rather hurridly), but didn't see anything similar other than the Petain issue that it was modeled on. Was I careless looking through the Liberation issues?

Darryl (doomboy)

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nigelc
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10 Jan 2018
01:31:06pm
re: France WWII forgeries

Hi doomboy,

I have the 2009 edition and it's under "Faux de la RĂ©sistance" (page 1337) in Volume 2.

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rrraphy
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Retired Consultant

10 Jan 2018
01:45:16pm
re: France WWII forgeries

Good discussion everyone. I learned a lot.Thumbs Up
rrr...

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"E. Rutherford: All science is either physics or stamp collecting."
doomboy
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10 Jan 2018
07:52:53pm
re: France WWII forgeries

Nigel:

Thanks - found M. de Gaulle where you said he'd be found (p. 958 in Maury 2016)

If it is authentic, it's listed @ 55 Euros.

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Author/Postings
pigdoc

09 Jan 2018
05:23:45pm

Hi Folks,

For your consideration, here are 3 stamps from my WWII collection:Image Not Found
The one at the upper left I presume to be a genuine Scott #440, the Petain stamp, with a(possibly faked) post-liberation overprint. I image this stamp simply for comparison with the one at the top right. The stamp at the top right I presume to be an example of what my Scott catalog describes as "forged by the French Underground and used to frank clandestine journals, etc. from February to June, 1944. The forgeries were ungummed, both perforated 11-1/2 and imperforate, with a back handstamp covering six stamps and including the words "Ateller des Faux."" My copy does not have the back handstamp.

Now, my question is, what is the stamp at the bottom? I obtained this stamp in a lot of French WWII issues. It appears also to be a forgery by the same hand, but of a design that does not resemble any genuine France issue, or the described Petain forgery. It is on a thick, fairly soft, beige paper very similar to the paper that the Petain forgery is printed on. The Petain forgery is perfed 11-1/2, but the bottom stamp is perfed 11.

The CDS on the bottom stamp is July 29, 1944. If genuine, this would seem to be a late usage, relative to the Liberation of Paris, August 25, 1944.

Opinions on its provenance as well as comments on the cancellation invited!
Genuine Forgery? (love that juxtaposition of words!)
Fantasy?
Album Weed?

Thanks!

Like 
3 Members
like this post.
Login to Like.
pigdoc

09 Jan 2018
06:40:13pm

re: France WWII forgeries

Actually, under magnification, that cancel appears to be AUGUST 29, 1944.
If genuine, late indeed!

Comments please!

Like
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this post
Members Picture
doomboy

09 Jan 2018
06:54:25pm

re: France WWII forgeries

Almost looks like de Gaulle under the cancellation.

If so, maybe a propaganda stamp used by the resistance? This is soley a guess on my part.

Like
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this post
Members Picture
nigelc

09 Jan 2018
08:38:57pm

re: France WWII forgeries

Hi doomboy,

Yes, the bottom stamp is a resistance stamp showing de Gaulle from Nice in 1943.

It was used in Nice, Marseille, Cannes, Ajaccio etc.

I've no idea if it's genuine or not but the stamp is listed in the Maury catalogue.


Like
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this post
Members Picture
Ningpo

09 Jan 2018
08:45:42pm

re: France WWII forgeries

This is referred to as the DeGaulle Profile; the French also produced a DeGaulle stamp in full face. Printed by the French underground - Forces Frangais l'Intirieur (FFI) between 1941 and 1943, the 1.50 francs red-brown is of poor quality.

Printed in brown on pale cream paper or on grayish paper; in sheets of 9 (3x3) with clear margins all around. They are known perforated and imperforate. The text in the central oval is Postes Francaises, as on the genuine stamp that was used as a model.

They were produced in Nice by the FFI Combat resistance group.......

Image Not Found

The DeGaulle Full Face version was printed with the text Republique Francaise in the central oval, and was of much better quality.

Like 
3 Members
like this post.
Login to Like.
Members Picture
Guthrum

10 Jan 2018
05:14:55am

re: France WWII forgeries

The overprinted stamp is a Liberation issue from Lyon - one of the more common of these sets. It is Ceres (Lyon) no.10. There is no reason to assume the overprint is faked.

Many cities and locales issued these stamps after the liberation of August 1944. Fourteen of them were reconnues par l'administration, while Ceres list a further 28 which n'ont pas ete reconnues par le ministre des PTT.

There exists at least one set unlisted by my Ceres catalogue, which dates from 1982 (that from Metz), which I have, and assume it, too, was unrecognised by the PTT.

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pigdoc

10 Jan 2018
10:58:59am

re: France WWII forgeries

Thanks, guys!

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doomboy

10 Jan 2018
12:21:45pm

re: France WWII forgeries

Nigel:

Where in the Maury guide would I find the de Gaulle stamp? I did a look through the 2017 prior to posting (I admit rather hurridly), but didn't see anything similar other than the Petain issue that it was modeled on. Was I careless looking through the Liberation issues?

Darryl (doomboy)

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nigelc

10 Jan 2018
01:31:06pm

re: France WWII forgeries

Hi doomboy,

I have the 2009 edition and it's under "Faux de la RĂ©sistance" (page 1337) in Volume 2.

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rrraphy

Retired Consultant
10 Jan 2018
01:45:16pm

re: France WWII forgeries

Good discussion everyone. I learned a lot.Thumbs Up
rrr...

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"E. Rutherford: All science is either physics or stamp collecting."
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doomboy

10 Jan 2018
07:52:53pm

re: France WWII forgeries

Nigel:

Thanks - found M. de Gaulle where you said he'd be found (p. 958 in Maury 2016)

If it is authentic, it's listed @ 55 Euros.

Like
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