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General Philatelic/Identify This? : Symbols on Machin Stamps?

 

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stampbaby
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07 Jan 2018
04:54:31pm

Auctions
Occasionally I have noted small gray colored symbols (circles, boxes, etc.)on the Great Britain "Machin" stamps. I've asked a few stamp dealers to explain these symbols, but they either don't know,Image Not Found or "think" they are cancellation marks. Does anyone have an answer on this subject?

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Nikki
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07 Jan 2018
05:18:13pm
re: Symbols on Machin Stamps?

They have been around for a long time.Sometimes you will find them at the bottom of covers.They are Phosphor code dots produced by the franking machines I was once told by some one working in the P.O.

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nikkis-stamp-store.ebid.net/
nigelc
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07 Jan 2018
05:19:32pm
re: Symbols on Machin Stamps?

Hi stampbaby,

These phosphor dots were used for many years in automatic sorting.

The dots applied near the top of the envelope represented the inward (second) half of our post codes. These code the delivery to a small area, in my case to a group of 12 houses.

These dots often hit the stamps.

You now often see vertical orange barcode-style markings instead.

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nigelc
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07 Jan 2018
05:22:21pm
re: Symbols on Machin Stamps?

The similar pattern of dots at the bottom of the envelope that Nikki mentions coded the outward (first) part of the postcode.

These identified the sorting office that the the envelope was to be sent to for final delivery.

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egertoni
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07 Jan 2018
05:24:03pm
re: Symbols on Machin Stamps?

For more info, check out item #6 in the FAQs on Robin Harris' website Great Britain Machins:

https://www.adminware.ca/machin/m_faq.htm

Jim

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joshtanski
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07 Jan 2018
06:35:30pm
re: Symbols on Machin Stamps?

You can find those dots on world wide stamps too - so international mail coming into Great Britain must have gotten the same treatment.

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cdj1122
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Silence in the face of adversity is the father of complicity and collusion, the first cousins of conspiracy..

09 Jan 2018
04:21:27pm
re: Symbols on Machin Stamps?

" .... but they either don't know,
or "think" they are cancellation marks. ....


You need to find some more knowledgeable stamp dealers,
one with more experience to rely on for information.
Twenty or thirty years ago there might have been an excuse,
but now, the only dealer who might have never had
the opportunity or curiosity to wonder
and inquire about them is
( The seemingly random "dots." )
that guy with a green eye shade,
who is plating the inverted ferret stamps
from Outer Thunbelina, or somene new to the hobby.
I'm glad you asked, here in SoR where
fact based answers are always offered.
I will admit that the "dots" seem to have become less common
as I suppose collectors reject them
and dispose the ones they come across.
Unfortunately, a few times, in the days before
just about every conceivable detail
of life can be found with but a few keystrokes,
I met a dealer who semed to have never
read a book on the hobby,
or glanced at the introductions of almost any catalog.
I was amazed as I learned more than the basics myself,
at the wrong answers he gave to people who came to him
during my regular Saturday morning visit to his shop.
I wonder what else the person who presents himself
as a dealer hasn't bothered to learn.

Another thought; Perhaps that is the new normal
and can be blamed of the demise of weekly print stamp newspapers.

Like
Login to Like
this post

".... You may think you understood what you thought I said, but I'm not sure you realize that what you think you heard is not what I thought I meant. .... "
stampbaby
Members Picture


10 Jan 2018
07:00:24pm

Auctions
re: Symbols on Machin Stamps?

Thanks for the information. I appreciate your input, especially what you said regarding the Nazi bread ration stamp, on my "what is it?" postings.

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malcolm197

21 Jan 2018
11:27:41am
re: Symbols on Machin Stamps?

The blue sorting dots have been replaced by digital lines of orange vertical dots.

I think that this is due to the new machines being able to "read" handwritten postcodes ( zipcodes to you across the pond), but I stand to be corrected there.

Originally postcode dots had to be entered manually by a "typewriter-thingy" after being read by the "typewriter-thingy" operator. The envelope was then passed through the machinery to be automatically sorted.

The original "phosphor Bands" were used to "face" the letters for cancellation - and all stamps had 2 bands. Subsequently other formats were used to automatically sort classes of mail to seperately cancel these different classes, and these steps were prior to the use of postcodes being able to be sorted automatically.

Malcolm

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malcolm197

22 Jan 2018
04:58:35am
re: Symbols on Machin Stamps?

Charlie

The problems with dealers is that they cannot possibly know everything about everything.

I get the impression that the vast majority of U.S. collectors are very U.S. centric ( and please don't get your guided missiles out everyone it is an observation not a criticism).

This means that the majority of dealers are also U.S. centric in reaction to the desires of the customers.

I imagine that the vast distances in the U.S. also limits the possibilities of collectors with non-US interests being in close proximity.

This is where the internet steps in. Ask your questions here. There are people here who know "the basics" of many countries. Although none of us individually know everything about everything ( like your dealers ), collectively we know quite a lot about a lot, and even if we cannot help you on an individual question we can often point you in the right direction.

BTW Charlie it most be a bit lonely being a Machin collector in the US ( LOL )

Malcolm

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cdj1122
Members Picture


Silence in the face of adversity is the father of complicity and collusion, the first cousins of conspiracy..

23 Jan 2018
05:12:39pm
re: Symbols on Machin Stamps?

Nothing to fear, all our functioning misiles are currently engaged.

" .... means that the majority of dealers are also U.S. centric in reaction to the desires of the customers. ...."


Unless a stamp is bought and sold at $200.oo or more, the remaining dealers are not only US-centric they are mostly Interesed in minty stamps, as are so many collectors..

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".... You may think you understood what you thought I said, but I'm not sure you realize that what you think you heard is not what I thought I meant. .... "
        

 

Author/Postings
Members Picture
stampbaby

07 Jan 2018
04:54:31pm

Auctions

Occasionally I have noted small gray colored symbols (circles, boxes, etc.)on the Great Britain "Machin" stamps. I've asked a few stamp dealers to explain these symbols, but they either don't know,Image Not Found or "think" they are cancellation marks. Does anyone have an answer on this subject?

Like
Login to Like
this post
Members Picture
Nikki

07 Jan 2018
05:18:13pm

re: Symbols on Machin Stamps?

They have been around for a long time.Sometimes you will find them at the bottom of covers.They are Phosphor code dots produced by the franking machines I was once told by some one working in the P.O.

Like
Login to Like
this post

nikkis-stamp-store.e ...
Members Picture
nigelc

07 Jan 2018
05:19:32pm

re: Symbols on Machin Stamps?

Hi stampbaby,

These phosphor dots were used for many years in automatic sorting.

The dots applied near the top of the envelope represented the inward (second) half of our post codes. These code the delivery to a small area, in my case to a group of 12 houses.

These dots often hit the stamps.

You now often see vertical orange barcode-style markings instead.

Like
Login to Like
this post
Members Picture
nigelc

07 Jan 2018
05:22:21pm

re: Symbols on Machin Stamps?

The similar pattern of dots at the bottom of the envelope that Nikki mentions coded the outward (first) part of the postcode.

These identified the sorting office that the the envelope was to be sent to for final delivery.

Like
Login to Like
this post
Members Picture
egertoni

07 Jan 2018
05:24:03pm

re: Symbols on Machin Stamps?

For more info, check out item #6 in the FAQs on Robin Harris' website Great Britain Machins:

https://www.adminware.ca/machin/m_faq.htm

Jim

Like
Login to Like
this post
Members Picture
joshtanski

07 Jan 2018
06:35:30pm

re: Symbols on Machin Stamps?

You can find those dots on world wide stamps too - so international mail coming into Great Britain must have gotten the same treatment.

Like
Login to Like
this post

Silence in the face of adversity is the father of complicity and collusion, the first cousins of conspiracy..
09 Jan 2018
04:21:27pm

re: Symbols on Machin Stamps?

" .... but they either don't know,
or "think" they are cancellation marks. ....


You need to find some more knowledgeable stamp dealers,
one with more experience to rely on for information.
Twenty or thirty years ago there might have been an excuse,
but now, the only dealer who might have never had
the opportunity or curiosity to wonder
and inquire about them is
( The seemingly random "dots." )
that guy with a green eye shade,
who is plating the inverted ferret stamps
from Outer Thunbelina, or somene new to the hobby.
I'm glad you asked, here in SoR where
fact based answers are always offered.
I will admit that the "dots" seem to have become less common
as I suppose collectors reject them
and dispose the ones they come across.
Unfortunately, a few times, in the days before
just about every conceivable detail
of life can be found with but a few keystrokes,
I met a dealer who semed to have never
read a book on the hobby,
or glanced at the introductions of almost any catalog.
I was amazed as I learned more than the basics myself,
at the wrong answers he gave to people who came to him
during my regular Saturday morning visit to his shop.
I wonder what else the person who presents himself
as a dealer hasn't bothered to learn.

Another thought; Perhaps that is the new normal
and can be blamed of the demise of weekly print stamp newspapers.

Like
Login to Like
this post

".... You may think you understood what you thought I said, but I'm not sure you realize that what you think you heard is not what I thought I meant. .... "
Members Picture
stampbaby

10 Jan 2018
07:00:24pm

Auctions

re: Symbols on Machin Stamps?

Thanks for the information. I appreciate your input, especially what you said regarding the Nazi bread ration stamp, on my "what is it?" postings.

Like
Login to Like
this post
malcolm197

21 Jan 2018
11:27:41am

re: Symbols on Machin Stamps?

The blue sorting dots have been replaced by digital lines of orange vertical dots.

I think that this is due to the new machines being able to "read" handwritten postcodes ( zipcodes to you across the pond), but I stand to be corrected there.

Originally postcode dots had to be entered manually by a "typewriter-thingy" after being read by the "typewriter-thingy" operator. The envelope was then passed through the machinery to be automatically sorted.

The original "phosphor Bands" were used to "face" the letters for cancellation - and all stamps had 2 bands. Subsequently other formats were used to automatically sort classes of mail to seperately cancel these different classes, and these steps were prior to the use of postcodes being able to be sorted automatically.

Malcolm

Like
Login to Like
this post
malcolm197

22 Jan 2018
04:58:35am

re: Symbols on Machin Stamps?

Charlie

The problems with dealers is that they cannot possibly know everything about everything.

I get the impression that the vast majority of U.S. collectors are very U.S. centric ( and please don't get your guided missiles out everyone it is an observation not a criticism).

This means that the majority of dealers are also U.S. centric in reaction to the desires of the customers.

I imagine that the vast distances in the U.S. also limits the possibilities of collectors with non-US interests being in close proximity.

This is where the internet steps in. Ask your questions here. There are people here who know "the basics" of many countries. Although none of us individually know everything about everything ( like your dealers ), collectively we know quite a lot about a lot, and even if we cannot help you on an individual question we can often point you in the right direction.

BTW Charlie it most be a bit lonely being a Machin collector in the US ( LOL )

Malcolm

Like 
1 Member
likes this post.
Login to Like.

Silence in the face of adversity is the father of complicity and collusion, the first cousins of conspiracy..
23 Jan 2018
05:12:39pm

re: Symbols on Machin Stamps?

Nothing to fear, all our functioning misiles are currently engaged.

" .... means that the majority of dealers are also U.S. centric in reaction to the desires of the customers. ...."


Unless a stamp is bought and sold at $200.oo or more, the remaining dealers are not only US-centric they are mostly Interesed in minty stamps, as are so many collectors..

Like
Login to Like
this post

".... You may think you understood what you thought I said, but I'm not sure you realize that what you think you heard is not what I thought I meant. .... "
        

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