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Oceania/Australia : Counterfeit vs Genuine

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Rob1956
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Member ACCC (Australian Commonwealth Collectors Club of NSW)
01 Jan 2018
11:20:26am
Can you spot the counterfeit, both have Ceremuga Certificates?

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"Specialised Collector of Australian Pre-Decimal & Decimal Stamps"
Winedrinker
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01 Jan 2018
11:40:00am
re: Counterfeit vs Genuine

Comparing with my "non-specimen" version of this stamp, I would say the top is fake. The highlight in the Queen's hair was where I saw one of the differences.


Is there a prize?

Cheers,
Eric

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sheepshanks
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01 Jan 2018
12:18:39pm
re: Counterfeit vs Genuine

Not owning even the non specimen stamp and purely on visuals I would plump for the second stamp as a fake, it just seems too clean and defined.
Probably wrong as usual!

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ChrisW
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APS# 175366
01 Jan 2018
12:29:55pm
re: Counterfeit vs Genuine

They don't seem to be scanned at the same resolution, are they?

So if, I would say that the first one was fake.

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d1stamper
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01 Jan 2018
01:31:57pm
re: Counterfeit vs Genuine

The counterfeit is the bottom stamp.

Doug

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Rob1956
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Member ACCC (Australian Commonwealth Collectors Club of NSW)
01 Jan 2018
05:49:32pm
re: Counterfeit vs Genuine

Quote:

"Is there a prize?"



No prize Eric, but not a bad idea, the next one will be attached to a prize (the winner being the first one to identify the correct stamp), and it will be a worthy prize at that.

The purpose of the post is to highlight that even forgeries have very convincing false certificates.

The answer will be posted tonight, have fun everyone working this out.

Rob
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"Specialised Collector of Australian Pre-Decimal & Decimal Stamps"
fredcdobbs
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APS # 224327
01 Jan 2018
07:22:06pm
re: Counterfeit vs Genuine

Based on nothing other than the stamp as your avatar I would go with the number two stamp, as the long leg on the N matches and the background matches.

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Rob1956
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Member ACCC (Australian Commonwealth Collectors Club of NSW)
01 Jan 2018
10:29:03pm
re: Counterfeit vs Genuine

Hi Fred, based on the avatar I showed earlier or the avatar I am showing now. I knew people would be looking at my avatar as a clue so I changed it from one to another.

Yes, I'm mean, but it's a fun philatelic way at sleuthing, and it will help others with identifying convincing fakes of this rare iconic stamp.

Rob

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rrraphy
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Retired Ap. Book Mod. Retired Pres Golden Gate Stamp Club, Retired consultant
02 Jan 2018
01:59:21am
re: Counterfeit vs Genuine

The size of the O/P letters in the bottom stamp are all inconsistent and uneven. I would say it is the fake.
rrr...

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51Studebaker
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Dialysis, damned if you do...dead if you don't
02 Jan 2018
05:04:37am
re: Counterfeit vs Genuine

Bottom one is the genuine one. (But Rob probably knows how I came to that answer!)
Don

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Rob1956
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Member ACCC (Australian Commonwealth Collectors Club of NSW)
02 Jan 2018
07:08:51am
re: Counterfeit vs Genuine

Every-one who chose the bottom stamp is correct, that is the genuine specimen.

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Both Genuine

Both these overprints, mine on the bottom and the overprint on the top {which I copied from the internet for comparison) are genuine, notice the uniformity of the thickness in the bold font, you will see that in all genuine £1 coronation specimens.

The authentic specimen will have an obvious indentation of the overprint on the reverse, this is absent in a forgery.

This font will not be found in any word-processor etc., it was specifically created for the overprint.

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Forgery

The top stamp in the sleuthing quiz is also genuine, it is the overprint that is a forgery, the thickness, spacing of the fonts and the font itself is incorrect. Even the Ceremuga certificate that accompanied the stamp was fraudulent, though the certificate is an original; it was originally taken from the internet, superimposed with an image of the impostor stamp and then printed in colour.

The stamp, mostly with thins, rust and other faults will be used, they can be bought cheaply, a little photoshopping and presto, a specimen ready to be sold for hundreds luring the untrained eye into believing one will save hundreds more at a too-good-to-be-true price.

Quote:

"Comparing with my "non-specimen" version of this stamp, I would say the top is fake. The highlight in the Queen's hair was where I saw one of the differences."


Eric, you are correct, the stamp itself is genuine though. I got the forged stamp off the internet and I can see how the blurriness of the image made the hair look different, unintentional misleading, but you still got it right.

Quote:

"Not owning even the non specimen stamp and purely on visuals I would plump for the second stamp as a fake, it just seems too clean and defined.
Probably wrong as usual!"


That second stamp is genuine and it is in pristine condition and superbly centred, I bought it clean and defined. Yes sheepshanks, you chose the wrong stamp, although unintentional that comment made my day.

Quote:

"They don't seem to be scanned at the same resolution, are they?

So if, I would say that the first one was fake."


No Chris they're not, unfortunately I do not own a forgery so I had to borrow one from the internet, not a good scan but the overprint was the forgery, but good detective work, you got it right.

Quote:

"The counterfeit is the bottom stamp.

Doug"


Sorry Doug, the top stamp was counterfeit, the genuine stamp although rare is very seldom seen in the condition shown above, thus making it look too-good-to-be-true.

Quote:

"Based on nothing other than the stamp as your avatar I would go with the number two stamp, as the long leg on the N matches and the background matches."


Sorry Fred, wrong stamp. I realised just after posting the Counterfeit verses Genuine that my avatar will be used as a clue, so I had to change the avatar to the forgery.

Quote:

"The size of the O/P letters in the bottom stamp are all inconsistent and uneven. I would say it is the fake.
rrr... "


You were right on track, but on the wrong stamp, you are definitely the closest at identifying the forgery, it is the overprint. My fiancee says she loves the cat, we have three.

Quote:

"Bottom one is the genuine one. (But Rob probably knows how I came to that answer!)
Don"



Let me guessThinking, it seems I'll have to do some detective work here Don, would it be by chance looking at the genuine stamp on stamp smarter?

Thanks everyone for being good sports in sleuthing, next time there will be a very interesting prize for the first person to identify the forgery or the first closest to the answer.

Rob

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51Studebaker
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Dialysis, damned if you do...dead if you don't
02 Jan 2018
07:48:46am
re: Counterfeit vs Genuine

Quote:

"...Let me guess, it seems I'll have to do some detective work here Don, would it be by chance looking at the genuine stamp on Stamp Smarter?..."



Yes indeed Big Grin

So I waited a day or so before I answered as to not impact the contest here.

Sometimes these type contests are more about a person's online search capabilities as opposed to their intrinsic philatelic knowledge. I think it was Einstein who said, "I never commit to memory anything that can easily be looked up..."
Don


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Rob1956
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Member ACCC (Australian Commonwealth Collectors Club of NSW)
02 Jan 2018
06:09:48pm
re: Counterfeit vs Genuine

Hi Don

It didn't take much detective work to figure that one out. True, going online to search for clues would help to recognise the actual forgery, but not many people know where to locate the fault on this particular stamp, it is one of the most counterfeited and some of those counterfeits are quite convincing especially when the forger knows that a certificate must accompany the real thing.

That was a good adage from Einstein, I could have used that in the contest.

Rob

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"Specialised Collector of Australian Pre-Decimal & Decimal Stamps"
        
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