Discussion - Member to Member Sales - Research Center
Discussion - Member to Member Sales - Research Center
Login to Like
this post
I believe so! Note that in the USA most cancels are applied at regional centers. Those are all the new generation inkjet cancels and are all smeared messes. I do include the regional center postmarks in my NJ postmark collection and have been trying to collect the Christmas cancel from our incoming Christmas cards. I'm having an issue finding any that are actually readable! As in why even bother putting out a Christmas cancel?
When my daughter sent out her wedding invitations she was absolutely horrified at what the Trenton, NJ sorting center did to those envelopes. Smeared so bad that you got ink on your hands just handling the envelopes. I filed an official complaint on the USPS website, including images. I got back a terse reply saying their mission was to move the mail and not provide pretty postmarks. I replied back that their mission states that they must provide a proper date stamp on the mail and these covers had failed that since they weren't readable. No response!
You'd think with the multi-million dollar contract that must have gone to low bidder for the cancelling equipment they could demand legible postmarks!
1 Member
likes this post.
Login to Like.
Here is the latest "Happy Holidays" cancel from my area that illustrates your point. Not much we can really do about it. It does not make us stamp collectors very happy, for sure.
Linus
2 Members
like this post.
Login to Like.
And that's a lot more legible than many of them!
2 Members
like this post.
Login to Like.
i get tired of pen cancels...this one came this week...it seems like many larger envelopes do not get postmarked...too much trouble i guess...then they arrive at my post office and get this treatment.
Login to Like
this post
I see that too Phil. Here's one of those many received with no cancellations that arrived in yesterdays mail. Sent to me by one of our Stamporama peers!
I thought it interesting what 49 cents of postage in old stamps actually looked like. There would not be enough room on a standard envelope for 16 commemorative size stamps!
1 Member
likes this post.
Login to Like.
When someone in Canada puts nice new issues on the envelope and they come through uncancelled..thats annoying.
Login to Like
this post
I too have had the same complaints as everyone else in this thread. It is most annoying to have the stamps cancelled with pen etc., other than the proper cancels. If I had to take the lesser of two evils, a pen cancel or un-cancelled, I'll take the un-cancelled. What a choice 
Chimo
Bujutsu
Login to Like
this post
An addendum to my earlier post. I decided to take this cover up to the post office and ask them to cancel the stamps since my wife wanted 60 Christmas stamps and I had to go there anyway.
The post office was so busy the line was past the lobby and out the door! So I settled for buying 70 Christmas stamps via robo-teller in the lobby. These awful little labels popped out of the machine on sheets of 10.
Login to Like
this post
Philb, I sometimes take the mail to my PO and apply the cancellation myself only to find out that later in the process the mail was put through the machine anyways and a new set of nasty electronic cancellations were applied.
Still much better than what I had to deal with 3-4 years ago, when all my registered mail arrived with self adhesive Canada Post stickers placed right over the stamps.
Login to Like
this post
02:53:29pm
I have only been to the Post Office in Richmond (Texas) once where I asked for a hand cancellation.
The clerk announced that they do not even have a canceler there, all envelopes go to a central processing office. Since I had to rely on someone for the ride to town, and the clerk seemed to be a jerk, I just picked up my envelopes and left. The next day my son had the envelopes cancelled and purchased several sheets of commemoratives in downtown Houston with no trouble.
Login to Like
this post
Every post office has a hand cancel device, even the little contract po counters. Sounds like your clerk was referring to cancelling machines. All those have been gone from local offices a long time now
Login to Like
this post
04:02:20pm
No, Unless he was unable to process my request for a clear hand stamp . Fortunately My friend was in a hurry and I could not argue or produce a page from the DMM.
Login to Like
this post
In the |UK, since the collectors were apparently complaining about the biro cancellations, new hand cancellers were introduced:
And the postal workers like using them even when a stamp is already cancelled.
Clearly Royal Mail has taken the collectors to heart.
Login to Like
this post
And here's the latest from the militant wing of Germany's Anti-Stamp Collector Brigade. They ignore the fact that a normal cancel is present (albeit faint, but at least having due regard to anyone who likes German stamps), and then go to serious work with the black felt pens!
Login to Like
this post
The trouble in Germany is that Deutsche Post AG has outsourced most of its customer interaction. Sometimes, a branch of Postbank (the former financial arm of Deutsche Bundespost) operates a postal outlet, in which case you have mostly former "posties" running the shop, and offer a professional service, including clean cancellers. It's almost as if you went to a traditional post office, only the branding is different.
But there are also postal outlets that are run as a sideline by stationery shops, lottery and newspaper shops, even groceries and bakeries, and in these cases you'll find many semi-skilled employees who just got a crash course in postal operations. Apparently they often do not care enough for the equipment, some don't even know that they have a date stamp (yes, really, that happened in the middle of a big city when I asked for an imprint!), some make errors when setting the date, some forget to clean the canceller, some do not bother whether the mail item lies flat when they cancel the stamps - and since Germany uses steel date stamps, a clean impression is also a matter of some practice. Hence you find an increasing proportion of weak cancels, and if the letter carrier notices, well, out comes the felt pen ...
That having said, I'd rather have a used stamp with two postmarks than one without any.
Martin
1 Member
likes this post.
Login to Like.
I just received this in the mail.
Lots of stamps on the cover and a light cancel on only two of the stamps. Look no sharpie or pen was used on the other stamps. 
Doug
Login to Like
this post
Cover of the week at my house!
Look at how they silenced Ron Reagan!
Login to Like
this post
....and also silenced Mr. Lincoln!
Just barely missed Katherine, but it appears she was able to get some words in - hope she gave them a tongue-lashing for doing that!
Login to Like
this post
I very rarely place my stamps on the envelope were they are supposed to go top right corner ,as I always hand cancel my stamps at my local PO and then they go in regular mail ,so I always try to keep the stamp about half way down the cover then when it goes through the machine it misses the stamp.
Two other post offices about fifteen minutes drive away always hand cancel my mail and it goes in their "Hand Sort" tub misses the machine altogether.
Brian
Login to Like
this post
Our little post office here is a closet (maybe 4 feet by 8 feet) in the back corner of the local country convenience store. It is only open 2 hours in the morning and 3 hours in the afternoon now but the lady who runs it takes care of her customers. I order stamps through her office instead of on-line if I need an issue I don't have, it keeps her monthly sales up (maybe helps keep the office open).
I was in today and saw her canceling the mail and then writing on the cancellation. Asking her what was going on, her hand stamp only adjusted to 2017 and she didn't find out until she tried to reset it in 2018 so until the post office sends her a new one she changes the year and initials each one. How's that for dedicated service!
So I bought an envelope and had it cancelled.
Brian
6 Members
like this post.
Login to Like.
Sloppy cancels now the norm? Guess it depends on the country. Once again, I am impressed by the care of European postal administrations (at least most of those I am familiar with). Here's a cover I received last week from a Delcampe dealer:
Bob
3 Members
like this post.
Login to Like.
And the prize for postal obliterator of the year goes to................
Yes, someone had actually put this along with a lot of other covers in a "magnetic" photo album. Think the Winnipeg post office excelled themselves this time.
Login to Like
this post
I received this nicely franked cover today from Estonia. This cover is postmarked on September 27 so I received it in only 6 days. Even though the stamps were postmarked, a postal employee thought it deserved the Sharpie treatment.
Login to Like
this post
What a shame !
Login to Like
this post
Another sad example, received recently in mail between Texas and New York State:
In Ottawa, Canada, I received three Christmas cards one day this week. None had any cancels at all.
JTH
Login to Like
this post
01:25:09am
" .... a postal employee thought it deserved the Sharpie treatment. ...."
Just a hard working postal employee trying his damndest to protect US Postal
revenue from people who might try to use Estonian stamps on US mail.
1 Member
likes this post.
Login to Like.
actually, with the enormous proliferation of US stamps, many of which I've NEVER seen on mail, and Americans' general geographic illiteracy, one can understand why those Estonian stamps were obliterated....
Login to Like
this post
09:16:29pm
" .... Americans' general geographic illiteracy, ...."
So sad, but so true. I venture to guess that a very
high percentage of our fellow citizens cannot locate
the countries of Europe on a Cleartype map, like those
found in the old Scott International Albums, unless
we have made war on them.
(I'll exclude stampers.)
It is even worse if asked to point to Suomi, Helvetia
or Hellas.
Login to Like
this post
Just chiming in with an agreed YES to all of the above. I've been especially frustrated with the pen cancels lately.
Login to Like
this post
" .... Americans' general geographic illiteracy, ...."
But it isn't just Americans. Back in the eighties in England my mother's Member of Parliament was the late Ted Heath, at one time the UK's prime minister. At a local bank branch's Christmas party Heath insisted on talking about the danger Taiwanese shipbuilders posed to British industry after she told him one of her sons was in Thailand. A stamp collector would never make such a geographical mistake.
Login to Like
this post
Some time ago I sent a Fed Ex from USA to Australia. When it didn't arrive, Fed Ex traced it - it had been sent to Austria......
Login to Like
this post
"- it had been sent to Austria....."
That's wonderful and terrible all at once!
Login to Like
this post
I just received a catalog in media mail where the seller apparently has a permit to cancel the stamps he puts on the package. He cancels the stamps, all US commemoratives, many plate blocks, and then puts them in a plastic liner like they use for UPS, and puts that on the package. USPS is good with this, apparently.
When I get the package, I take the stamps out of the liner, and voila!, used, but OG stamps!
Login to Like
this post
Wow OG? Not affixed to anything, just loose? I’m not sure how he/she is getting away with that. I used to have a mailers postmark permit and when I registered I was told that the stamps had to be affixed, but I could put plastic over once they were canceled.
Another rule states that you can’t cancel stamps to create Philatelic oddities - they could only be canceled if they were actually being used to pay postage.
A permit is only good for a specific zip code. Once I moved, I couldn’t use it.
Having a MPP really was a lot of fun - I do miss it.
Login to Like
this post
The stamps were carefully placed in the pocket so all could be seen and added up for correct postage if necessary. I suppose it does seem a bit CTO but they were used for postage. Next time I order I will save the whole cover if it comes that way again.
Login to Like
this post
I created a small album with several of these and I titled it "Tales From the Dark Side" otherwise known as "If you end up with a lemon, squeeze it. I thought it was appropriate anyway. I do not see any excuse for covers to be this way because they have the equipment to cancel them properly. My opinion anyway.
Chimo
Bujutsu
Login to Like
this post
Is anyone else getting tired of messy postmarks that are unreadable and destroy the stamp it cancels? I get mail from overseas and it is canceled very nicely 99% of the time. I was going to add a scan but my scanner is acting strange.
Login to Like
this post
re: Sloppy Cancel's now the norm??
I believe so! Note that in the USA most cancels are applied at regional centers. Those are all the new generation inkjet cancels and are all smeared messes. I do include the regional center postmarks in my NJ postmark collection and have been trying to collect the Christmas cancel from our incoming Christmas cards. I'm having an issue finding any that are actually readable! As in why even bother putting out a Christmas cancel?
When my daughter sent out her wedding invitations she was absolutely horrified at what the Trenton, NJ sorting center did to those envelopes. Smeared so bad that you got ink on your hands just handling the envelopes. I filed an official complaint on the USPS website, including images. I got back a terse reply saying their mission was to move the mail and not provide pretty postmarks. I replied back that their mission states that they must provide a proper date stamp on the mail and these covers had failed that since they weren't readable. No response!
You'd think with the multi-million dollar contract that must have gone to low bidder for the cancelling equipment they could demand legible postmarks!
1 Member
likes this post.
Login to Like.
re: Sloppy Cancel's now the norm??
Here is the latest "Happy Holidays" cancel from my area that illustrates your point. Not much we can really do about it. It does not make us stamp collectors very happy, for sure.
Linus
2 Members
like this post.
Login to Like.
re: Sloppy Cancel's now the norm??
And that's a lot more legible than many of them!
2 Members
like this post.
Login to Like.
re: Sloppy Cancel's now the norm??
i get tired of pen cancels...this one came this week...it seems like many larger envelopes do not get postmarked...too much trouble i guess...then they arrive at my post office and get this treatment.
Login to Like
this post
re: Sloppy Cancel's now the norm??
I see that too Phil. Here's one of those many received with no cancellations that arrived in yesterdays mail. Sent to me by one of our Stamporama peers!
I thought it interesting what 49 cents of postage in old stamps actually looked like. There would not be enough room on a standard envelope for 16 commemorative size stamps!
1 Member
likes this post.
Login to Like.
re: Sloppy Cancel's now the norm??
When someone in Canada puts nice new issues on the envelope and they come through uncancelled..thats annoying.
Login to Like
this post
re: Sloppy Cancel's now the norm??
I too have had the same complaints as everyone else in this thread. It is most annoying to have the stamps cancelled with pen etc., other than the proper cancels. If I had to take the lesser of two evils, a pen cancel or un-cancelled, I'll take the un-cancelled. What a choice
Chimo
Bujutsu
Login to Like
this post
re: Sloppy Cancel's now the norm??
An addendum to my earlier post. I decided to take this cover up to the post office and ask them to cancel the stamps since my wife wanted 60 Christmas stamps and I had to go there anyway.
The post office was so busy the line was past the lobby and out the door! So I settled for buying 70 Christmas stamps via robo-teller in the lobby. These awful little labels popped out of the machine on sheets of 10.
Login to Like
this post
re: Sloppy Cancel's now the norm??
Philb, I sometimes take the mail to my PO and apply the cancellation myself only to find out that later in the process the mail was put through the machine anyways and a new set of nasty electronic cancellations were applied.
Still much better than what I had to deal with 3-4 years ago, when all my registered mail arrived with self adhesive Canada Post stickers placed right over the stamps.
Login to Like
this post
Silence in the face of adversity is the father of complicity and collusion, the first cousins of conspiracy..
21 Dec 2017
02:53:29pm
re: Sloppy Cancel's now the norm??
I have only been to the Post Office in Richmond (Texas) once where I asked for a hand cancellation.
The clerk announced that they do not even have a canceler there, all envelopes go to a central processing office. Since I had to rely on someone for the ride to town, and the clerk seemed to be a jerk, I just picked up my envelopes and left. The next day my son had the envelopes cancelled and purchased several sheets of commemoratives in downtown Houston with no trouble.
Login to Like
this post
re: Sloppy Cancel's now the norm??
Every post office has a hand cancel device, even the little contract po counters. Sounds like your clerk was referring to cancelling machines. All those have been gone from local offices a long time now
Login to Like
this post
Silence in the face of adversity is the father of complicity and collusion, the first cousins of conspiracy..
21 Dec 2017
04:02:20pm
re: Sloppy Cancel's now the norm??
No, Unless he was unable to process my request for a clear hand stamp . Fortunately My friend was in a hurry and I could not argue or produce a page from the DMM.
Login to Like
this post
re: Sloppy Cancel's now the norm??
In the |UK, since the collectors were apparently complaining about the biro cancellations, new hand cancellers were introduced:
And the postal workers like using them even when a stamp is already cancelled.
Clearly Royal Mail has taken the collectors to heart.
Login to Like
this post
re: Sloppy Cancel's now the norm??
And here's the latest from the militant wing of Germany's Anti-Stamp Collector Brigade. They ignore the fact that a normal cancel is present (albeit faint, but at least having due regard to anyone who likes German stamps), and then go to serious work with the black felt pens!
Login to Like
this post
re: Sloppy Cancel's now the norm??
The trouble in Germany is that Deutsche Post AG has outsourced most of its customer interaction. Sometimes, a branch of Postbank (the former financial arm of Deutsche Bundespost) operates a postal outlet, in which case you have mostly former "posties" running the shop, and offer a professional service, including clean cancellers. It's almost as if you went to a traditional post office, only the branding is different.
But there are also postal outlets that are run as a sideline by stationery shops, lottery and newspaper shops, even groceries and bakeries, and in these cases you'll find many semi-skilled employees who just got a crash course in postal operations. Apparently they often do not care enough for the equipment, some don't even know that they have a date stamp (yes, really, that happened in the middle of a big city when I asked for an imprint!), some make errors when setting the date, some forget to clean the canceller, some do not bother whether the mail item lies flat when they cancel the stamps - and since Germany uses steel date stamps, a clean impression is also a matter of some practice. Hence you find an increasing proportion of weak cancels, and if the letter carrier notices, well, out comes the felt pen ...
That having said, I'd rather have a used stamp with two postmarks than one without any.
Martin
1 Member
likes this post.
Login to Like.
re: Sloppy Cancel's now the norm??
I just received this in the mail.
Lots of stamps on the cover and a light cancel on only two of the stamps. Look no sharpie or pen was used on the other stamps.
Doug
Login to Like
this post
re: Sloppy Cancel's now the norm??
Cover of the week at my house!
Look at how they silenced Ron Reagan!
Login to Like
this post
re: Sloppy Cancel's now the norm??
....and also silenced Mr. Lincoln!
Just barely missed Katherine, but it appears she was able to get some words in - hope she gave them a tongue-lashing for doing that!
Login to Like
this post
Auctions - Approvals
re: Sloppy Cancel's now the norm??
I very rarely place my stamps on the envelope were they are supposed to go top right corner ,as I always hand cancel my stamps at my local PO and then they go in regular mail ,so I always try to keep the stamp about half way down the cover then when it goes through the machine it misses the stamp.
Two other post offices about fifteen minutes drive away always hand cancel my mail and it goes in their "Hand Sort" tub misses the machine altogether.
Brian
Login to Like
this post
re: Sloppy Cancel's now the norm??
Our little post office here is a closet (maybe 4 feet by 8 feet) in the back corner of the local country convenience store. It is only open 2 hours in the morning and 3 hours in the afternoon now but the lady who runs it takes care of her customers. I order stamps through her office instead of on-line if I need an issue I don't have, it keeps her monthly sales up (maybe helps keep the office open).
I was in today and saw her canceling the mail and then writing on the cancellation. Asking her what was going on, her hand stamp only adjusted to 2017 and she didn't find out until she tried to reset it in 2018 so until the post office sends her a new one she changes the year and initials each one. How's that for dedicated service!
So I bought an envelope and had it cancelled.
Brian
6 Members
like this post.
Login to Like.
re: Sloppy Cancel's now the norm??
Sloppy cancels now the norm? Guess it depends on the country. Once again, I am impressed by the care of European postal administrations (at least most of those I am familiar with). Here's a cover I received last week from a Delcampe dealer:
Bob
3 Members
like this post.
Login to Like.
re: Sloppy Cancel's now the norm??
And the prize for postal obliterator of the year goes to................
Yes, someone had actually put this along with a lot of other covers in a "magnetic" photo album. Think the Winnipeg post office excelled themselves this time.
Login to Like
this post
re: Sloppy Cancel's now the norm??
I received this nicely franked cover today from Estonia. This cover is postmarked on September 27 so I received it in only 6 days. Even though the stamps were postmarked, a postal employee thought it deserved the Sharpie treatment.
Login to Like
this post
re: Sloppy Cancel's now the norm??
Another sad example, received recently in mail between Texas and New York State:
In Ottawa, Canada, I received three Christmas cards one day this week. None had any cancels at all.
JTH
Login to Like
this post
Silence in the face of adversity is the father of complicity and collusion, the first cousins of conspiracy..
24 Dec 2019
01:25:09am
re: Sloppy Cancel's now the norm??
" .... a postal employee thought it deserved the Sharpie treatment. ...."
Just a hard working postal employee trying his damndest to protect US Postal
revenue from people who might try to use Estonian stamps on US mail.
1 Member
likes this post.
Login to Like.
Auctions
re: Sloppy Cancel's now the norm??
actually, with the enormous proliferation of US stamps, many of which I've NEVER seen on mail, and Americans' general geographic illiteracy, one can understand why those Estonian stamps were obliterated....
Login to Like
this post
Silence in the face of adversity is the father of complicity and collusion, the first cousins of conspiracy..
24 Dec 2019
09:16:29pm
re: Sloppy Cancel's now the norm??
" .... Americans' general geographic illiteracy, ...."
So sad, but so true. I venture to guess that a very
high percentage of our fellow citizens cannot locate
the countries of Europe on a Cleartype map, like those
found in the old Scott International Albums, unless
we have made war on them.
(I'll exclude stampers.)
It is even worse if asked to point to Suomi, Helvetia
or Hellas.
Login to Like
this post
re: Sloppy Cancel's now the norm??
Just chiming in with an agreed YES to all of the above. I've been especially frustrated with the pen cancels lately.
Login to Like
this post
re: Sloppy Cancel's now the norm??
" .... Americans' general geographic illiteracy, ...."
But it isn't just Americans. Back in the eighties in England my mother's Member of Parliament was the late Ted Heath, at one time the UK's prime minister. At a local bank branch's Christmas party Heath insisted on talking about the danger Taiwanese shipbuilders posed to British industry after she told him one of her sons was in Thailand. A stamp collector would never make such a geographical mistake.
Login to Like
this post
re: Sloppy Cancel's now the norm??
Some time ago I sent a Fed Ex from USA to Australia. When it didn't arrive, Fed Ex traced it - it had been sent to Austria......
Login to Like
this post
re: Sloppy Cancel's now the norm??
"- it had been sent to Austria....."
That's wonderful and terrible all at once!
Login to Like
this post
09:09:56pm
re: Sloppy Cancel's now the norm??
I just received a catalog in media mail where the seller apparently has a permit to cancel the stamps he puts on the package. He cancels the stamps, all US commemoratives, many plate blocks, and then puts them in a plastic liner like they use for UPS, and puts that on the package. USPS is good with this, apparently.
When I get the package, I take the stamps out of the liner, and voila!, used, but OG stamps!
Login to Like
this post
re: Sloppy Cancel's now the norm??
Wow OG? Not affixed to anything, just loose? I’m not sure how he/she is getting away with that. I used to have a mailers postmark permit and when I registered I was told that the stamps had to be affixed, but I could put plastic over once they were canceled.
Another rule states that you can’t cancel stamps to create Philatelic oddities - they could only be canceled if they were actually being used to pay postage.
A permit is only good for a specific zip code. Once I moved, I couldn’t use it.
Having a MPP really was a lot of fun - I do miss it.
Login to Like
this post
09:29:17pm
re: Sloppy Cancel's now the norm??
The stamps were carefully placed in the pocket so all could be seen and added up for correct postage if necessary. I suppose it does seem a bit CTO but they were used for postage. Next time I order I will save the whole cover if it comes that way again.
Login to Like
this post
re: Sloppy Cancel's now the norm??
I created a small album with several of these and I titled it "Tales From the Dark Side" otherwise known as "If you end up with a lemon, squeeze it. I thought it was appropriate anyway. I do not see any excuse for covers to be this way because they have the equipment to cancel them properly. My opinion anyway.
Chimo
Bujutsu
Login to Like
this post