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United States/Stamps : ID Help for US Revenue stamps with interesting cancels

 

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yybstamps

06 Nov 2017
09:41:22pm
Image Not FoundPlease help me ID this revenue stamp. Any ideal would be very appreciated. Peter

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michael78651

06 Nov 2017
10:06:55pm
re: ID Help for US Revenue stamps with interesting cancels

United States revenue Scott #R185.

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seanpashby
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06 Nov 2017
10:22:49pm
re: ID Help for US Revenue stamps with interesting cancels

I have never seen the cutout of E & M pasted on the front of the stamp. Maybe a "reverse perfin"?

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musicman
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APS #213005

06 Nov 2017
11:07:00pm
re: ID Help for US Revenue stamps with interesting cancels

...interesting...

...the E&M Sean pointed out.

Also, an interesting cancel;

Francis Eames was a broker at the New York Stock Exchange.

He formed the brokerage firm of Eames & Moore in 1869.

He retired in 1903.



Interesting stamp!

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michael78651

07 Nov 2017
01:13:24am
re: ID Help for US Revenue stamps with interesting cancels

Removed by OP as I believe my comment was in error.

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seanpashby
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07 Nov 2017
10:03:33pm
re: ID Help for US Revenue stamps with interesting cancels

That cancel sure looks like it is printed on a raised area. My eyes must be going.

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yybstamps

07 Nov 2017
10:06:21pm
re: ID Help for US Revenue stamps with interesting cancels

Question: The denomination and surcharge of my stamp are different to Scott Cat R185. How to

understand they are same?

Peter

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michael78651

07 Nov 2017
10:26:33pm
re: ID Help for US Revenue stamps with interesting cancels

The surcharge is a number "2" on a $2.00 stamp just like it is supposed to be as stated in Scott.

Sean, you just may be right. If so, someone took big trouble to do that.

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seanpashby
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07 Nov 2017
11:28:59pm
re: ID Help for US Revenue stamps with interesting cancels

Peter,

The "E & M" on your stamp. Is it cut out of the stamp, or glued to the face of the stamp?

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jmh67

08 Nov 2017
02:33:47am
re: ID Help for US Revenue stamps with interesting cancels

I believe the E&M is punched out of the stamp, not glued on. That's probably a trick of the light. Otherwise, the cancel would look stronger there.

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dani20
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08 Nov 2017
07:27:18am
re: ID Help for US Revenue stamps with interesting cancels

Punch cancels are relatively common for this series, bearing the firms name or initials. What puzzles me is the hand stamp cancel appearing to be continuous for the top of E & M
but not showing on the lower half of the E & M. It's as if there is a backing on the stamps gum side on the top half taking the cancel through the punched out area there.

Dan C.

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51Studebaker
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Dialysis, damned if you do...dead if you don't

08 Nov 2017
07:59:05am
re: ID Help for US Revenue stamps with interesting cancels

Punch cancels were often applied shortly after the time of purchase but before being applied to the document, this prevented theft.
Don

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vinman
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08 Nov 2017
05:37:52pm
re: ID Help for US Revenue stamps with interesting cancels

The E & M was punched out then the stamp was applied to a document then cancelled. It appears that the picture of this stamp shows it still attached to the document it was cancelled on.

Vince

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dani20
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08 Nov 2017
07:15:00pm
re: ID Help for US Revenue stamps with interesting cancels

Thank you Don & Vince-that makes sense.
Dan C.

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musicman
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APS #213005

08 Nov 2017
09:10:28pm
re: ID Help for US Revenue stamps with interesting cancels

Dan,

Yes, as mentioned -

the "2" overprint was in place BEFORE the "E&M" was punched out.

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yybstamps

09 Nov 2017
08:05:46pm
re: ID Help for US Revenue stamps with interesting cancels

Hi everyone,

Thanks a lot for your comments.I have checked it carefully. I am sure that E&M was punch out of the stamp. I am not convinced that stamp is Scott Cat R185. Please somebody could guide me more sources to dig up the history and events during the period of Scott Cat R184 to R194? I have a bunch of similar revenue stamps with same denomination and surcharge but different cancellations.This is only first one of them. Please let me know if anybody have or see the identical denomination and surcharge on this kind of US Revenue Stamps?

Peter

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yybstamps

10 Nov 2017
10:29:47pm
re: ID Help for US Revenue stamps with interesting cancels

Could anyone please show me an image that has surcharge "2" on a $2.00 revenue stamp with

allegorical figure of commerce?

Another question: Why the stamp need double cancels one cut cancel, punch of E&M, and hand

stamp cancel?

Thanks,

Peter

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dani20
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11 Nov 2017
07:24:00am
re: ID Help for US Revenue stamps with interesting cancels

Peter,
I believe that part of your second question was already answered by Don & Vince above.
Best,
Dan

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yybstamps

11 Nov 2017
10:22:49pm
re: ID Help for US Revenue stamps with interesting cancels

Dan,

You are right, the comments of Don & Vince support the stamp is double cancelled. I am

wondering why? As I know majority postage stamps only cancel once. Please correct me if I am

wrong.

Thanks,

Peter

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dani20
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12 Nov 2017
09:04:00am
re: ID Help for US Revenue stamps with interesting cancels

Agreed, but again I think that Don's response answers the question, no?
Dan C.

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51Studebaker
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Dialysis, damned if you do...dead if you don't

12 Nov 2017
11:47:49am
re: ID Help for US Revenue stamps with interesting cancels

In 1901 $2 is equivalent to $58.49 in today's money, a significant amount of value.

So when company first received these valuable stamps, they immediately punched them to prevent theft. These unused punched stamps would then sit stored in the drawer or cabinet. When a document was recorded and a stamp needed, a pre-punched stamp was taken out, applied to document, and then the stamp and document would be cancelled together.


Image Not Found

In 1892 Francis Eames (owner of the company) developed a new system for the NYSE which modernized the way they dealt with larger volumes of stock trades. This advancement catapulted him to President of the NYSE in 1894. He remained President of NYSE until 1898. He was a part of the Eames and Moore firm from 1869 through 1902. On Jan 1, 1903, the company announced its dissolution (see clipping from New York Tribune).

Don

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vinman
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12 Nov 2017
02:04:53pm
re: ID Help for US Revenue stamps with interesting cancels

yybstamps,
is your question about the numeral "2" on the stamp? The cancel and punch have been explained.

Vince

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AntoniusRa
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The truth is within and only you can reveal it

13 Nov 2017
11:21:41pm
re: ID Help for US Revenue stamps with interesting cancels

Image Not Found

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mitch.seymourfamily.com/mward/collection/mapindex.html
yybstamps

14 Nov 2017
10:45:55pm
re: ID Help for US Revenue stamps with interesting cancels

Thank you all for helping me to ID my revenue stamp. It is time to remove "not in Scott Cat"

from the discussion subject. I'll upload more similar US revenue stamps with different

cancels latter on.

Best,

Peter

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yybstamps

18 Nov 2017
09:44:36pm
re: ID Help for US Revenue stamps with interesting cancels

Image Not Found


Are there triple cancels on this revenue stamp?

Best

Peter

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vinman
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19 Nov 2017
05:40:26am
re: ID Help for US Revenue stamps with interesting cancels

There are two cancels on that stamp. The "H&B New York with date" and the the three horizontal slits. The Large numeral "2" is not a cancel.

Vince

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yybstamps

19 Nov 2017
05:35:51pm
re: ID Help for US Revenue stamps with interesting cancels

Thank you Vince. I'll upload more revenue stamps with fancy cancels. Would you please

indicate more details about them? Peter

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yybstamps

19 Nov 2017
05:43:43pm
re: ID Help for US Revenue stamps with interesting cancels

Image Not FoundImage Not FoundImage Not Found

Thank you Vince. I upload more revenue stamps with fancy cancels. Would you please

indicate more details about them? Peter

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musicman
Members Picture


APS #213005

19 Nov 2017
09:01:39pm
re: ID Help for US Revenue stamps with interesting cancels

These aren't considered 'fancy cancels', but rather - companies that used these revenues for their businesses and thus cancelled them with a cancelling device made with their business name.

Interesting cancels though and very collectible!

You should research each one's business name for further info.

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yybstamps

22 Nov 2017
09:50:15pm
re: ID Help for US Revenue stamps with interesting cancels

Image Not FoundImage Not FoundImage Not Found

Uploaded please find more interesting cancels on US revenue stamps! I was shocked to see

so many different cancels just for New York area in 1901. Those interesting cancels plied

multiple roles, prevent theft, distinguishing companies, no more re-use, and some kind of

art. They are small but real records of history. Image Not Found

The last but not least, two stamps with up side down each other of "2" (18574) may be a

pair! I am wondering how come it happens like that if my observation are truly.

Your comments would be greatly appreciated.

Best

Peter

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1898

17 Aug 2022
11:23:27pm
re: ID Help for US Revenue stamps with interesting cancels

The 3 cuts are IAW Treasury Dept. 1 Dec 1899 decision.

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Author/Postings
yybstamps

06 Nov 2017
09:41:22pm

Image Not FoundPlease help me ID this revenue stamp. Any ideal would be very appreciated. Peter

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this post
michael78651

06 Nov 2017
10:06:55pm

re: ID Help for US Revenue stamps with interesting cancels

United States revenue Scott #R185.

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seanpashby

06 Nov 2017
10:22:49pm

re: ID Help for US Revenue stamps with interesting cancels

I have never seen the cutout of E & M pasted on the front of the stamp. Maybe a "reverse perfin"?

Like 
2 Members
like this post.
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Members Picture
musicman

APS #213005
06 Nov 2017
11:07:00pm

re: ID Help for US Revenue stamps with interesting cancels

...interesting...

...the E&M Sean pointed out.

Also, an interesting cancel;

Francis Eames was a broker at the New York Stock Exchange.

He formed the brokerage firm of Eames & Moore in 1869.

He retired in 1903.



Interesting stamp!

Like 
1 Member
likes this post.
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michael78651

07 Nov 2017
01:13:24am

re: ID Help for US Revenue stamps with interesting cancels

Removed by OP as I believe my comment was in error.

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seanpashby

07 Nov 2017
10:03:33pm

re: ID Help for US Revenue stamps with interesting cancels

That cancel sure looks like it is printed on a raised area. My eyes must be going.

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this post
yybstamps

07 Nov 2017
10:06:21pm

re: ID Help for US Revenue stamps with interesting cancels

Question: The denomination and surcharge of my stamp are different to Scott Cat R185. How to

understand they are same?

Peter

Like
Login to Like
this post
michael78651

07 Nov 2017
10:26:33pm

re: ID Help for US Revenue stamps with interesting cancels

The surcharge is a number "2" on a $2.00 stamp just like it is supposed to be as stated in Scott.

Sean, you just may be right. If so, someone took big trouble to do that.

Like
Login to Like
this post
Members Picture
seanpashby

07 Nov 2017
11:28:59pm

re: ID Help for US Revenue stamps with interesting cancels

Peter,

The "E & M" on your stamp. Is it cut out of the stamp, or glued to the face of the stamp?

Like
Login to Like
this post
jmh67

08 Nov 2017
02:33:47am

re: ID Help for US Revenue stamps with interesting cancels

I believe the E&M is punched out of the stamp, not glued on. That's probably a trick of the light. Otherwise, the cancel would look stronger there.

Like
Login to Like
this post
Members Picture
dani20

08 Nov 2017
07:27:18am

re: ID Help for US Revenue stamps with interesting cancels

Punch cancels are relatively common for this series, bearing the firms name or initials. What puzzles me is the hand stamp cancel appearing to be continuous for the top of E & M
but not showing on the lower half of the E & M. It's as if there is a backing on the stamps gum side on the top half taking the cancel through the punched out area there.

Dan C.

Like
Login to Like
this post
Members Picture
51Studebaker

Dialysis, damned if you do...dead if you don't
08 Nov 2017
07:59:05am

re: ID Help for US Revenue stamps with interesting cancels

Punch cancels were often applied shortly after the time of purchase but before being applied to the document, this prevented theft.
Don

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"Current Score... Don 1 - Cancer 0"

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vinman

08 Nov 2017
05:37:52pm

re: ID Help for US Revenue stamps with interesting cancels

The E & M was punched out then the stamp was applied to a document then cancelled. It appears that the picture of this stamp shows it still attached to the document it was cancelled on.

Vince

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likes this post.
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"The best in Big Band and Swing Music WRDV.org"

wrdv.org/
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dani20

08 Nov 2017
07:15:00pm

re: ID Help for US Revenue stamps with interesting cancels

Thank you Don & Vince-that makes sense.
Dan C.

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musicman

APS #213005
08 Nov 2017
09:10:28pm

re: ID Help for US Revenue stamps with interesting cancels

Dan,

Yes, as mentioned -

the "2" overprint was in place BEFORE the "E&M" was punched out.

Like
Login to Like
this post
yybstamps

09 Nov 2017
08:05:46pm

re: ID Help for US Revenue stamps with interesting cancels

Hi everyone,

Thanks a lot for your comments.I have checked it carefully. I am sure that E&M was punch out of the stamp. I am not convinced that stamp is Scott Cat R185. Please somebody could guide me more sources to dig up the history and events during the period of Scott Cat R184 to R194? I have a bunch of similar revenue stamps with same denomination and surcharge but different cancellations.This is only first one of them. Please let me know if anybody have or see the identical denomination and surcharge on this kind of US Revenue Stamps?

Peter

Like
Login to Like
this post
yybstamps

10 Nov 2017
10:29:47pm

re: ID Help for US Revenue stamps with interesting cancels

Could anyone please show me an image that has surcharge "2" on a $2.00 revenue stamp with

allegorical figure of commerce?

Another question: Why the stamp need double cancels one cut cancel, punch of E&M, and hand

stamp cancel?

Thanks,

Peter

Like
Login to Like
this post
Members Picture
dani20

11 Nov 2017
07:24:00am

re: ID Help for US Revenue stamps with interesting cancels

Peter,
I believe that part of your second question was already answered by Don & Vince above.
Best,
Dan

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this post
yybstamps

11 Nov 2017
10:22:49pm

re: ID Help for US Revenue stamps with interesting cancels

Dan,

You are right, the comments of Don & Vince support the stamp is double cancelled. I am

wondering why? As I know majority postage stamps only cancel once. Please correct me if I am

wrong.

Thanks,

Peter

Like
Login to Like
this post
Members Picture
dani20

12 Nov 2017
09:04:00am

re: ID Help for US Revenue stamps with interesting cancels

Agreed, but again I think that Don's response answers the question, no?
Dan C.

Like
Login to Like
this post
Members Picture
51Studebaker

Dialysis, damned if you do...dead if you don't
12 Nov 2017
11:47:49am

re: ID Help for US Revenue stamps with interesting cancels

In 1901 $2 is equivalent to $58.49 in today's money, a significant amount of value.

So when company first received these valuable stamps, they immediately punched them to prevent theft. These unused punched stamps would then sit stored in the drawer or cabinet. When a document was recorded and a stamp needed, a pre-punched stamp was taken out, applied to document, and then the stamp and document would be cancelled together.


Image Not Found

In 1892 Francis Eames (owner of the company) developed a new system for the NYSE which modernized the way they dealt with larger volumes of stock trades. This advancement catapulted him to President of the NYSE in 1894. He remained President of NYSE until 1898. He was a part of the Eames and Moore firm from 1869 through 1902. On Jan 1, 1903, the company announced its dissolution (see clipping from New York Tribune).

Don

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"Current Score... Don 1 - Cancer 0"

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vinman

12 Nov 2017
02:04:53pm

re: ID Help for US Revenue stamps with interesting cancels

yybstamps,
is your question about the numeral "2" on the stamp? The cancel and punch have been explained.

Vince

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"The best in Big Band and Swing Music WRDV.org"

wrdv.org/
Members Picture
AntoniusRa

The truth is within and only you can reveal it
13 Nov 2017
11:21:41pm

re: ID Help for US Revenue stamps with interesting cancels

Image Not Found

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mitch.seymourfamily. ...
yybstamps

14 Nov 2017
10:45:55pm

re: ID Help for US Revenue stamps with interesting cancels

Thank you all for helping me to ID my revenue stamp. It is time to remove "not in Scott Cat"

from the discussion subject. I'll upload more similar US revenue stamps with different

cancels latter on.

Best,

Peter

Like
Login to Like
this post
yybstamps

18 Nov 2017
09:44:36pm

re: ID Help for US Revenue stamps with interesting cancels

Image Not Found


Are there triple cancels on this revenue stamp?

Best

Peter

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Members Picture
vinman

19 Nov 2017
05:40:26am

re: ID Help for US Revenue stamps with interesting cancels

There are two cancels on that stamp. The "H&B New York with date" and the the three horizontal slits. The Large numeral "2" is not a cancel.

Vince

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this post

"The best in Big Band and Swing Music WRDV.org"

wrdv.org/
yybstamps

19 Nov 2017
05:35:51pm

re: ID Help for US Revenue stamps with interesting cancels

Thank you Vince. I'll upload more revenue stamps with fancy cancels. Would you please

indicate more details about them? Peter

Like
Login to Like
this post
yybstamps

19 Nov 2017
05:43:43pm

re: ID Help for US Revenue stamps with interesting cancels

Image Not FoundImage Not FoundImage Not Found

Thank you Vince. I upload more revenue stamps with fancy cancels. Would you please

indicate more details about them? Peter

Like 
1 Member
likes this post.
Login to Like.
Members Picture
musicman

APS #213005
19 Nov 2017
09:01:39pm

re: ID Help for US Revenue stamps with interesting cancels

These aren't considered 'fancy cancels', but rather - companies that used these revenues for their businesses and thus cancelled them with a cancelling device made with their business name.

Interesting cancels though and very collectible!

You should research each one's business name for further info.

Like 
1 Member
likes this post.
Login to Like.
yybstamps

22 Nov 2017
09:50:15pm

re: ID Help for US Revenue stamps with interesting cancels

Image Not FoundImage Not FoundImage Not Found

Uploaded please find more interesting cancels on US revenue stamps! I was shocked to see

so many different cancels just for New York area in 1901. Those interesting cancels plied

multiple roles, prevent theft, distinguishing companies, no more re-use, and some kind of

art. They are small but real records of history. Image Not Found

The last but not least, two stamps with up side down each other of "2" (18574) may be a

pair! I am wondering how come it happens like that if my observation are truly.

Your comments would be greatly appreciated.

Best

Peter

Like
Login to Like
this post
1898

17 Aug 2022
11:23:27pm

re: ID Help for US Revenue stamps with interesting cancels

The 3 cuts are IAW Treasury Dept. 1 Dec 1899 decision.

Like
Login to Like
this post
        

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