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General Philatelic/Identify This? : OKeefe Red Poppy in Yellow?

 

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biggeorge
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21 Oct 2017
04:59:24pm
At a church bazaar today, a friend ran across this. a US Georgia O'Keefe sheet in yellow versus red! Having been in the printer industry, it looks like the magenta print has been removed (chemically) or faded with sun exposure. If it is missing as a result of a printing error. it could be a goodie! The owner brought it in to show to a couple who had set up a stamp booth, to see what they thought. The owner is not a collector and just bought the sheet because she liked it.

Image Not Found

Any ideas? Anyone know of this issue fading in sunlight?

Thanks,

George

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dani20
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21 Oct 2017
05:24:52pm
re: OKeefe Red Poppy in Yellow?

Very interesting item. I'm looking forward to more info on it.
Dan C.

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stampbaby
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22 Oct 2017
12:19:57pm

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re: OKeefe Red Poppy in Yellow?

The Linn's Stamp News Magazine (September 17, 2017) page 6, offers an excellent
article on stamp mis-coloration and coloration errors entitled "The expertizer's mind-set: skepticism and review." As a collector of Russian error and color error stamps, I found the article to be enlightening and it may offer some insight for you as well.

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biggeorge
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23 Oct 2017
11:45:04am
re: OKeefe Red Poppy in Yellow?

I have read the article and am approaching this with more than a grain of salt (but don't let my cardiologist hear that!). On further inquiry, it turns out that the owner had the sheet framed and hung it on her wall!! I am 98% of the opinion that this is probably a sun induced color change.

I have not seen the actual sheet yet, but will try to get to it sometime this week. Will be taking my regular loupe and a 30X scope.

I will keep SOR posted on the happenings.

George

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amsd
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Editor, Seal News; contributor, JuicyHeads

23 Oct 2017
12:33:43pm
re: OKeefe Red Poppy in Yellow?

George(ia)

I think your surmising about the sun's effects are sun spot on

David

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dollhaus

23 Oct 2017
01:08:20pm
re: OKeefe Red Poppy in Yellow?

That's a good bet since the current red pigments are notorious for fading out quickly. There are some good, stable reds out there - but they contain bad actors. Mercury and strontium compounds give some long-lasting reds, but they can be nasty in the environment. One of the best orange pigment is uranium-based.

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TuskenRaider
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23 Oct 2017
06:27:57pm
re: OKeefe Red Poppy in Yellow?

Hi Everyone;

Would not the owner have known that it was red when purchased, and has now changed? If so she would have no reason to bring it to a stamp show for an opinion or appraisal.

It would have to have been in a location of direct sunlight, to fade so quickly, right?

I would say it's more likely an error, and should be expertised.

Still sortin'....
TuskenRaider

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biggeorge
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23 Oct 2017
09:21:07pm
re: OKeefe Red Poppy in Yellow?

TR,

I still haven't seen the sheet up close yet. I don't know if they asked her if it was red or yellow when she bought it. The "dealers" were at a church bazaar amidst the canned fruits and quilty things. Since they are members of the church they thought they'd see if anyone was interested in stamps. It wasn't really a stamp show or anything like it. Just a gathering in the basement of a Lutheran church!

If I can find no remnants of the magenta ink, my recommendation will be to have it expertized. Without a "good" cert, it is unsaleable as an error. Then the owner can decide on what to do with it! Maybe even if it does show hints of magenta, it may be wise to have it expertized.

Will probably get to see it on Wednesday or Thursday.

George

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seanpashby
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23 Oct 2017
10:13:18pm
re: OKeefe Red Poppy in Yellow?

In your original picture, is the plate number missing the magenta or is it faded as well?

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biggeorge
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24 Oct 2017
11:34:35am
re: OKeefe Red Poppy in Yellow?

Sean,

Don't know about the plate numbers. I have not seen the sheet in person yet. I am trying to set up an appointment for Wednesday or Thursday.

George

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lmintveld

24 Oct 2017
11:50:07am
re: OKeefe Red Poppy in Yellow?

Hi all,

As the person that was introduced to this sheet during the Craft and Vendor Fair at our church, I can add the following.

The lady had bought the sheet because she liked yellow!!!!

Not sure if it had been in a frame already or if she was the first to frame it.

We will try to get together with George and the owner to see if we can get some more detailed information from her and by thorough inspection.

If warranted we will submit it to the APS for expertizing.

Leen

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51Studebaker
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Dialysis, damned if you do...dead if you don't

24 Oct 2017
12:00:16pm
re: OKeefe Red Poppy in Yellow?

My opinion is that this is a color changeling (as other have stated sunlight).

The simplest thing to do is get a few of the normal mint stamps and place them in direct sunlight for a week or two. If the red ink is fugitive (and red inks typically are) then the yellow will be left. It will not take more than 30 hours or so in direct sunlight to see it to begin to change.

Keep in mind that the odds are that if there were any yellow 'errors' they would have surfaced before now.

Below is an example of a single stamp that was given this kind of direct sunlight test (left half exposed to direct sunlight). Image courtesy of a poster on SCF forum.

Image Not Found )

Don

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biggeorge
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26 Oct 2017
11:54:54am
re: OKeefe Red Poppy in Yellow?

Here are several scans from my OOPS collection/exhibit. These are all chemically induced transformations and are so marked on the reverse of each stamp.

Image Not Found

Image Not Found

Image Not Found

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Pogopossum

26 Oct 2017
06:02:39pm
re: OKeefe Red Poppy in Yellow?

Fascinating. I like the transformed Gold Star Mothers stamp much better.

PP

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biggeorge
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26 Oct 2017
06:23:00pm
re: OKeefe Red Poppy in Yellow?

Leen and I had the opportunity to examine the "Yellow" Poppies sheet today. It is very much a sunlight faded occurrence! Immediate examination showed the existense of all the appropriate colors on the plate number - including the 'missing' magenta. Close look at the individual flowers revealed a slight misregistration of the Magenta in relation to the yellow. Apparently there was about a half mm of overlap. Around the upper edge of each flower we could see one or two dots of magenta ink in the gray background. In the photo this shows up as a slightly blurry magenta band on the upper edges of the flowers.

No rarity! No finders fee. But an interesting eyecatcher.

Image Not Found

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musicman
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APS #213005

29 Oct 2017
10:26:36am
re: OKeefe Red Poppy in Yellow?

....and we would be wise to keep in mind what Don said above;


"Keep in mind that the odds are that if there were any yellow 'errors' they would have surfaced before now."




This is not to say that you WON'T find a 'one-of-a-kind'....

but it isn't very likely, especially regarding something that has been around awhile.



Just my 2 cents! Happy

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Author/Postings
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biggeorge

21 Oct 2017
04:59:24pm

At a church bazaar today, a friend ran across this. a US Georgia O'Keefe sheet in yellow versus red! Having been in the printer industry, it looks like the magenta print has been removed (chemically) or faded with sun exposure. If it is missing as a result of a printing error. it could be a goodie! The owner brought it in to show to a couple who had set up a stamp booth, to see what they thought. The owner is not a collector and just bought the sheet because she liked it.

Image Not Found

Any ideas? Anyone know of this issue fading in sunlight?

Thanks,

George

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dani20

21 Oct 2017
05:24:52pm

re: OKeefe Red Poppy in Yellow?

Very interesting item. I'm looking forward to more info on it.
Dan C.

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stampbaby

22 Oct 2017
12:19:57pm

Auctions

re: OKeefe Red Poppy in Yellow?

The Linn's Stamp News Magazine (September 17, 2017) page 6, offers an excellent
article on stamp mis-coloration and coloration errors entitled "The expertizer's mind-set: skepticism and review." As a collector of Russian error and color error stamps, I found the article to be enlightening and it may offer some insight for you as well.

Like 
4 Members
like this post.
Login to Like.
Members Picture
biggeorge

23 Oct 2017
11:45:04am

re: OKeefe Red Poppy in Yellow?

I have read the article and am approaching this with more than a grain of salt (but don't let my cardiologist hear that!). On further inquiry, it turns out that the owner had the sheet framed and hung it on her wall!! I am 98% of the opinion that this is probably a sun induced color change.

I have not seen the actual sheet yet, but will try to get to it sometime this week. Will be taking my regular loupe and a 30X scope.

I will keep SOR posted on the happenings.

George

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amsd

Editor, Seal News; contributor, JuicyHeads
23 Oct 2017
12:33:43pm

re: OKeefe Red Poppy in Yellow?

George(ia)

I think your surmising about the sun's effects are sun spot on

David

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"Save the USPS, buy stamps; save the hobby, use commemoratives"

juicyheads.com/link. ...
dollhaus

23 Oct 2017
01:08:20pm

re: OKeefe Red Poppy in Yellow?

That's a good bet since the current red pigments are notorious for fading out quickly. There are some good, stable reds out there - but they contain bad actors. Mercury and strontium compounds give some long-lasting reds, but they can be nasty in the environment. One of the best orange pigment is uranium-based.

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this post
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TuskenRaider

23 Oct 2017
06:27:57pm

re: OKeefe Red Poppy in Yellow?

Hi Everyone;

Would not the owner have known that it was red when purchased, and has now changed? If so she would have no reason to bring it to a stamp show for an opinion or appraisal.

It would have to have been in a location of direct sunlight, to fade so quickly, right?

I would say it's more likely an error, and should be expertised.

Still sortin'....
TuskenRaider

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www.webstore.com/sto ...
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biggeorge

23 Oct 2017
09:21:07pm

re: OKeefe Red Poppy in Yellow?

TR,

I still haven't seen the sheet up close yet. I don't know if they asked her if it was red or yellow when she bought it. The "dealers" were at a church bazaar amidst the canned fruits and quilty things. Since they are members of the church they thought they'd see if anyone was interested in stamps. It wasn't really a stamp show or anything like it. Just a gathering in the basement of a Lutheran church!

If I can find no remnants of the magenta ink, my recommendation will be to have it expertized. Without a "good" cert, it is unsaleable as an error. Then the owner can decide on what to do with it! Maybe even if it does show hints of magenta, it may be wise to have it expertized.

Will probably get to see it on Wednesday or Thursday.

George

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seanpashby

23 Oct 2017
10:13:18pm

re: OKeefe Red Poppy in Yellow?

In your original picture, is the plate number missing the magenta or is it faded as well?

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biggeorge

24 Oct 2017
11:34:35am

re: OKeefe Red Poppy in Yellow?

Sean,

Don't know about the plate numbers. I have not seen the sheet in person yet. I am trying to set up an appointment for Wednesday or Thursday.

George

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lmintveld

24 Oct 2017
11:50:07am

re: OKeefe Red Poppy in Yellow?

Hi all,

As the person that was introduced to this sheet during the Craft and Vendor Fair at our church, I can add the following.

The lady had bought the sheet because she liked yellow!!!!

Not sure if it had been in a frame already or if she was the first to frame it.

We will try to get together with George and the owner to see if we can get some more detailed information from her and by thorough inspection.

If warranted we will submit it to the APS for expertizing.

Leen

Like
Login to Like
this post
Members Picture
51Studebaker

Dialysis, damned if you do...dead if you don't
24 Oct 2017
12:00:16pm

re: OKeefe Red Poppy in Yellow?

My opinion is that this is a color changeling (as other have stated sunlight).

The simplest thing to do is get a few of the normal mint stamps and place them in direct sunlight for a week or two. If the red ink is fugitive (and red inks typically are) then the yellow will be left. It will not take more than 30 hours or so in direct sunlight to see it to begin to change.

Keep in mind that the odds are that if there were any yellow 'errors' they would have surfaced before now.

Below is an example of a single stamp that was given this kind of direct sunlight test (left half exposed to direct sunlight). Image courtesy of a poster on SCF forum.

Image Not Found )

Don

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"Current Score... Don 1 - Cancer 0"

stampsmarter.org
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biggeorge

26 Oct 2017
11:54:54am

re: OKeefe Red Poppy in Yellow?

Here are several scans from my OOPS collection/exhibit. These are all chemically induced transformations and are so marked on the reverse of each stamp.

Image Not Found

Image Not Found

Image Not Found

Like 
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like this post.
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Pogopossum

26 Oct 2017
06:02:39pm

re: OKeefe Red Poppy in Yellow?

Fascinating. I like the transformed Gold Star Mothers stamp much better.

PP

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biggeorge

26 Oct 2017
06:23:00pm

re: OKeefe Red Poppy in Yellow?

Leen and I had the opportunity to examine the "Yellow" Poppies sheet today. It is very much a sunlight faded occurrence! Immediate examination showed the existense of all the appropriate colors on the plate number - including the 'missing' magenta. Close look at the individual flowers revealed a slight misregistration of the Magenta in relation to the yellow. Apparently there was about a half mm of overlap. Around the upper edge of each flower we could see one or two dots of magenta ink in the gray background. In the photo this shows up as a slightly blurry magenta band on the upper edges of the flowers.

No rarity! No finders fee. But an interesting eyecatcher.

Image Not Found

Like 
4 Members
like this post.
Login to Like.
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musicman

APS #213005
29 Oct 2017
10:26:36am

re: OKeefe Red Poppy in Yellow?

....and we would be wise to keep in mind what Don said above;


"Keep in mind that the odds are that if there were any yellow 'errors' they would have surfaced before now."




This is not to say that you WON'T find a 'one-of-a-kind'....

but it isn't very likely, especially regarding something that has been around awhile.



Just my 2 cents! Happy

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likes this post.
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