Discussion - Member to Member Sales - Research Center
Discussion - Member to Member Sales - Research Center
I prefer a catalog number, but it's not necessary. Chronological order is a must for me. I can't be bothered with looking through a book with no order. I use Scott numbers but other catalogs also work. I just bought a large amount of stamps and they had catalog numbers and they were in chronological order, sorted by price. It is much easier for me to browse that way.
Vince
1 Member
likes this post.
Login to Like.
Bulldog, think it is an option to put numbers and the problem comes from which catalogue to use and are buyers willing to pay extra for the additional time to properly identify papers, watermarks, printing etc. These do take time as the thread on Argentina Scott 889a will show.
Bear in mind that most of us do try and arrange items in year order but within price bands. To do strict cat number order would mean all stamps are just one price.
As an exercise soak off a couple of hundred single country stamps (to remove old hinges and paper) dry, press and then make up sheets and scan and enumerate and put catalogue numbers and make up approval books, describing all faults however small. It takes a lot of time for relatively little reward.
If some buyers will not look at lots without catalogue numbers fair enough, but not all are that fussed.
Maybe we should have a section that just lists the catalogue numbers of stamps, without images and invite enquiries for purchase. A scan could then be provided of individual items.
Though this would restrict buyers, in a lot of instances, to the area of publication of the Catalogue system being used.
Login to Like
this post
On auction items I think that catalog numbers are relatively essential, although Scott numbers are as meaningless to those using Gibbons, Yvert, Facit, Michel, etc as those numbers are to those of us using Scott.
On approvals I like things in chronological order as much as possible. When dealing with early Hungary, Mexico, Brazil, etc where there may be several watermarks for each face identical stamp (all hard to see and identify) and all the varieties sell for a nickel or less I don't think it is realistic to expect someone to spend the time to try to figure out the watermarks.... it can take a few attempts on some issues to properly identify them and sometimes it is impossible to do so- especially on red, yellow and orange colored stamps.
Just my thoughts - I know many disagree.
Login to Like
this post
I think catalog numbers are essential.
1 Member
likes this post.
Login to Like.
I think it is quite sad that the stamporama members who do not have access to a Scott catalogue and use Gibbons, Michel, Yvert etc
are automatically discriminated against by other members simply because they do not live in the United States of America.
You do not know what you are missing!!!
Sad Sad Sad
Thankfully not all members are this discriminating!!!!
1 Member
likes this post.
Login to Like.
Brechinite,
Sorry but I don't see how there is discrimination here. No one on this thread said anything about having to use a Scott catalog. Pleas don't turn this into another anti American rant. Use what ever catalog that suits you, believe it or not us Americans can figure it out. I hate to tell you this but this is an international forum which includes Americans no matter how distasteful that may be for you.
Vince
3 Members
like this post.
Login to Like.
I am NOT anti American. I am NOT getting at Americans.
I am getting at those that want everything their way. Which catalogue numbers do they want, Scotts, Gibbons, Michel, Yvert etc? They never say. How many members have Scotts, Gibbons, Michel, Yvert catalogues?
This hoary old chestnut comes up so regularly.
There is continual moaning and statements " I wont Buy because there are no catalogue numbers", " I won't buy because of this, that or the other".
and I'm just fed up reading the same moans.
Why can't people just accept that things are the way they are without "I want this. I want that. I want the other", and have some consideration for others.
2 Members
like this post.
Login to Like.
I just gave my opinion that a catalog number is essential. It does not matter to me which catalog number is used. In fact, for areas I have a particular interest I do have catalogs for them from their native country, Michel, Stanley Gibbons, Unitrade, Facit and others.
2 Members
like this post.
Login to Like.
Smauggie:-
It may be essential to you but it may NOT be essential to others.
NOT everybody has multiple catalogues like you.
2 Members
like this post.
Login to Like.
I have Scott, Gibbons and Michel - complete world wide sets for all three.
I think that many members have more than just one brand of catalog/catalogue.
Login to Like
this post
"I just gave my opinion "
My dear man, I am not arguing with you, just sharing my thoughts. Everyone is entitled to their own opinion.
4 Members
like this post.
Login to Like.
I think part of the request behind catalogue numbers may be because potential buyers are not that familiar with a country's stamps to identify them readily especially when catalogs are not fully illustrated either.
I dabble with the Malaysia area and I know catalog numbers I need (have my own cross reference with Scott/SG) but it takes me time to decipher some issues (colors, dies, etc). It is just about convenience. I have just started Singapore and have no clue on issue period just by the images so any number helps.
They are not required but I suspect it will encourage more sales.
2 Members
like this post.
Login to Like.
At the very least chronological order with some date information. There are MANY, especially older stamps where the scanned image is not necessarily that helpful in identification so a catalog number is essential but most later issues are reasonably easily identifiable with date information although some of the more heavily used definitive theme pictures from various periods are a real challenge!
Any catalog number is a help although like most collectors in the USA I mostly rely on Scott although I am trying out Stanley Gibbons as I work through a Great Britain Windsor album - right now I have fairly good coverage through 1880 then skip to a good representation from 1958 through 1966 so I have a lot of room for improvement. I am working on the lower valued mint (hinged or non-hinged) stamps now through 1970 so lots of fun ahead. I stripped all of the stamps in between to fill in the blanks in an International Part I collection so have a lot of blanks spaces now which are crying out for stamps in the Windsor album. It certainly made the early pages in the Great Britain pages in the International Part I look nice though. 
Login to Like
this post
Folks.......
this thread started with a statement about that individual's preferences for viewing lots.
others have weighed in on their preferences as well
and one even gave his preference about reading others' preferences
all of which gives us several options: we can use it as data by which we better refine our listings and our postings; we can ignore it all; or we can argue.
Because they are mere personal preferences, I suggest we all eliminate the third choice from our selections, or run the risk of sounding like a bunch of crotchety old muppets sitting in the balcony of the theatre of the absurd and abused.
Up with Life, down with Strife, love my Wife, and this silliness, well cut it with .....
3 Members
like this post.
Login to Like.
I find that Scott Catalogue stamps are much nicer in appearance, just my two cents.
Wine
Login to Like
this post
06:52:25pm
" ... How many members have Scotts, Gibbons, Michel, Yvert catalogues? ..."
Me, me, me !
As well as a Facit, a Bolaffi, a Vlastos, a Unitrade, Norgeskatalogen, Danish AFI, NVPH, Leuchtterm, Ceres, as well as smaller Aussie South Seas, and a Sukura as well as a few others that are somewhere on the bookshelf. There is also a Courvessoir Machin catalog and my Machin Bible, the Deegam Complete Machin Handbook.
But for the inexpensive post 1990 issues seldom even look at the posted numbers in the auctions, especially the approval pages. Most are older so I rely on my memory, such as it is, or by opening the appropriate album and checking the spaces.
If I ever decide to put some of my stamps in the auction, and the catalog number is requisite, I might use my cherished 1966 Minkus set with just the letters MK, to see who notices.
I use the catalogs to occasionally search out the minor varieties that are not listed in Scott, or Gibbons.
The point is that for older stamps, or something having a significant value, I do not totally trust OPs ability to accurate identification unless they are well versed in the stamp's country, and for newer issues, choosing stamps I want by memory, is my daily Alzheimer test.
But then, that is just me.
Login to Like
this post
As a mixed catalog user, (I use Scott, Y&T and Isfila..depending on the country) I will say that much more valuable than catalog numbers, are:
1: List your stamps in chronological order (as much as possible in Approvals, subject to the prices of the page)
2: Give Years, or range of Years. Group your stamps.
3. Don't scatter duplicates all over the place
and finally and lastly Catalog numbers are very much appreciated, when you are in luck to have a fit between your collection and the catalog being quoted. But not mandatory, if you want to be an international club! Ian is right. You cannot be international by staying narrow minded..like the current..(political comment removed)
You may need to provide some additional information to identify varieties (perf , wmk etc).
But my primary "beef" is with Approval Books thrown together in haphazard fashion, which force you to constantly search for the next item through the whole catalog u may have, and literally will get you dizzy going back and forth. Is it so hard to organize a book in some form of order! And for more valuable stamps, please, if not a catalog number, at least give the year!
rrr...
1 Member
likes this post.
Login to Like.
When selling on a U.S. venue it is most preferred by buyers to include Scott numbers. Of course most venues are now international and buyers will have different preferences on what catalog numbers they want to see. Although catalog numbers are the easiest way to search they are not really required.
Important info is: 1. Country of origin 2. Year issued 3. Scan of stamp (negates the need for several of the following points). 4. Denomination. 5. Subject. 6. Color. 7. Perforation or imperf. 8. Watermark or not. 9. Paper type. 10. Printing type.
This info should be included with any listing on an international site where catalog numbers can become useless to many buyers. Personally I use Scott number plus all of the above that is pertinent to the item.
Of course there are some people who are pretty much clueless on selling and what information should be offered. To do any job correctly some tools are required. The most important tool in selling stamps are catalogs. If a seller doesn't have one then they should not bother trying to sell.
New catalogs are quite expensive, but catalogs that are only a year old can be found very reasonably.
Amazon is the best place to buy used catalogs from. I just picked up a set of 2016 catalogs (minus A-B) from Amazon for around $15 a piece and a 2017 A-B for $29.00
3 Members
like this post.
Login to Like.
"When selling on a U.S. venue it is most preferred by buyers to include Scott numbers."
Ah, but this is a CANADIAN site!
I'm surprised that in this day and age, there isn't a database that converts a Scott number to say a Gibbons number. At least for the popular countries...
I also see a need for a photo recognition tool. Scan a stamp, and up comes an identification. Not that hard technically, note that you can put a photo into Google and it will instantly find any copies of it on the Internet.
Login to Like
this post
.
"If a seller doesn't have one then they should not bother trying to sell."
Really?
There is another problem with catalogue numbers.
Some catalogues like Stanley Gibbons "Stamps of the World" comes in six volumes costs about $200 and covers all countries.
When you look at France, the 1853 Imperfs the Nos listed are as follows:-
42.......1c
45.......5c
50a......10c
51.......20c
63.......25c
64.......40c
70.......80c
72.......1f
What happened to nos 43& 44, 46-50, 52-62,
Obviously nos 52 etc are for various different types of the 20c, BUT how can I guess what the variations are??
NOT everybody has/wants the level of expertise that some buyers demand or require.
1 Member
likes this post.
Login to Like.
If a good illustration of an inexpensive or common stamp is included on a page with the country name that issued that stamp and price asked, why would a seller have to include anything more than that info?
The viewer, it seems to me, has two or three initial identification choices:
1. Look up the stamp in the catalog of their choice
2. Don't look up the stamp
2a. Ask seller for the info required
Next the viewer has two more choices:
1. Buy the stamp
2. Don't buy the stamp and move on
When a very expensive stamp is shown, perhaps there is some case to be made that the seller must include catalog number, especially when stamps resemble each other on the face of it but vary wildly in value.
There is always the possibility that seller might make mistakes on cataloging expensive stamps with wrong catalog number or no catalog number either to the benefit of the buyer or detriment of the seller or both. Another topic.
Perhaps the responsible party/parties could decide what constitutes an expensive stamp and create a rule around that particular example that might be helpful to all rather than bog people down with potentially meaningless detail and time negative factors.
But...cheap stamps? Seems like cluttering up a seller's life. If a seller makes no sales, perhaps the market itself will dictate he/she utilize another method such as including catalog numbers. If not...what's the harm?
Bruce
5 Members
like this post.
Login to Like.
Many opinions have been stated here, as well as many good points.
Just to be clear, the sales platform rules do not require that catalog numbers be used for identification of a stamp.
With that said, sellers should read what others are saying regarding what they look for when they buy stamps. Understand that when listing an item for sale, the more information that is provided, the better the chance if it selling. Most prospective buyers do not want to have to wait for an answer to their questions regarding an item. If they aren't sure, most will simply move on, and a potential sale is lost.
2 Members
like this post.
Login to Like.
I really prefer letting sellers determine what works best for them. If buyers don't respond to a seller's offerings, then the seller can make changes. Let the marketplace dictate what is acceptable and what is not.
In my case, I would never list a stamp without an image, even if it's only a 5c listing. Most of my low value listings have faults. And I've gotten into the habit of producing larger images. In doing so, prospective buyers get a clearer view of what I'm offering. Since I'm not a dealer, I can afford to spend some extra time doing this and I can understand why dealers may be reluctant to do so.
I tend to put off listing stamps where I don't have a catalog number. As an example, I've got a large collection of Nicaragua telegraph stamps that Scott doesn't list. For years, I didn't touch them. The only information I had was on the old French album pages on which they were mounted. Then, a year or two ago, I discovered Steve Panting's "Telegraph Stamps of the World" web site.
http://gb-precancels.org/Telegraphs/World/Nic.html
Steve has taken the catalog numbers from the old Hiscock catalog (which I had never heard of) and has presented what is essentially an updated online version of that catalog with images and additions to the catalog. I've even passed along a few new varieties for Steve to add to the online catalog. Thanks to Steve's work, I can list these Nicaragua telegraph stamps and include a catalog number. It may not be a catalog most are familiar with, but it's better than nothing and it's available to all potential buyers.
Tom
4 Members
like this post.
Login to Like.
Tom (keesindy),
Thanks for that link!
Awesome site with some great info!!
Login to Like
this post
10:04:27am
I understand why some people want catalogue numbers but for many of us this is not possible. I use Stampworld to create my albums.
To get a catalogue I have to put in a request at the library and wait for it to be returned by whomever has borrowed it (they are always out on loan) and then have it delivered to me. Trying to get all the catalogues at the same time is nearly impossible. Sure there is always a set in reference but I can't go to the library for 5 or 6 hours and try to have someone else look up the stamps and take note of every one of them.
Then I have to have my attendant who knows nothing about stamps to try to find them in the catalogues without my assistance. Then I have to try to identify all faults which is not easy when I can't see past 3" to view my stamps and rely on an electronic magnifier for my collection.
Then I need my attendant to put the stamps into Varios and scan them.
I have lots of stamps that have been waiting over a year to be put up for auction or approvals but I only have about 3 to 4 hours a week (if I can manage to have "stamp time" instead of having a bath) to have someone assist me with my stamps. I use that time for working on my own collection, dreaming of the possibility of putting together auctions and approvals.
So while I respect the desires of individuals who want catalogue numbers, you are putting a limitation on those of us who don't have catalogues or easy access to them.
I think about putting up approvals or auctions every day but since it will take me weeks to identify any faults in every single stamp (or months if I need to include catalogue numbers), I just keep putting it off as a dream for the future while they pile up taking up space and stockbooks that I need for my own collection.
3 Members
like this post.
Login to Like.
Hi Kelly,
How do you feel about catalog numbers as a buyer? Does it make it easier for you to search an approval book if there are numbers, considering your eyesight difficulty?
Vince
Login to Like
this post
11:25:34pm
I memorize the stamps I need and look for those. Being blind or what they consider legally blind because I do have sight (low vision), I depend mostly on memorizing things and that includes my stamps. That is why I use Stampworld because I can't see a catalogue and very limited to see print material.
Login to Like
this post
Being an Aussie my cataloge shelf is very small......AND old! (Stanley Gibbons, Scott 2000 and Japan most recent.
When I started listing stamps I tried to add Scott # by looking up various sites for similar and usuing SG.
This got SOooooo tedious I have given up numbers. For me - I go by my album to buy stamps - if it is not there I buy/bid.
Certainly Stampworld is just wonderful for getting the year etc.. of a particular item to identify if I have it or not.....but when listing I think the buyer should know what they want and take a good look at the stamp listing for all the gorey details....postmark, perforations, colour etc etc. etc. If you are a good collector with many years of experience - numbers in a catalogue done't matter eh? 
4 Members
like this post.
Login to Like.
You can always ask the seller to verify a number for you, if they can.
1 Member
likes this post.
Login to Like.
11:56:08am
" .... The most important tool in selling stamps are catalogs. If a seller doesn't have one then they should not bother trying to sell. ...."
And yet thousands of stamps are successfully sold both through the approval platform, as well as the auction pages, lacking any specific catalog number or consistent order. Not too bad for unsuccessful sellers.
2 Members
like this post.
Login to Like.
12:12:15pm
",,,, I'm surprised that in this day and age, there isn't a database that converts a Scott number to say a Gibbons number ...."
I may be mistaken, but was there not a lawsuit some years ago when someone wanted to do that between Scott's enumeration and Minkus numbers? I think it was when Krause had bought the rights to Minkus Publications.
1 Member
likes this post.
Login to Like.
The basic problem with catalogue numbers is how to describe a stamp that the catalogue does not list?
Take a fictious British Commonwealth stamp - 1956 Upper Bongoland 5c red definitive.
Scott lists this as SC607 red (only).How do I know that SC607 refers to this stamp if you only list it as Upper Bongoland SC607 ?
Look up in Gibbons and you get SG743 red, SG743a red-orange,SG743b carmine,SG 743c scarlet plus 743i and 743ci with inverted watermark, plus vatieties on silk,quadrille and laid paper.
If the Scott user lists SG743a as "SC607 red", the SG user will read that as being SG743 ergo the item could be construed as misdescribed, particularly as the potential Upper Bongoland purchaser has probably never even seen a Scott catalogue. I very much doubt that 1 in 10000 collectors outside the US uses Scott, unless they are a very advanced collector of the USA using the Scott specialised USA catalogue. I have never seen one even in a library in the UK.
I have no objection to seeing the catalogue number in addition to the date and description.If such a listing were to appear you can expect an e-mail asking you to define the shade more exactly than just "red".
While I accept that this is a US/Canada -centric board, I would just remind everyone that there are many members from outside that axis who are happy to contribute - just so long as we know what is being discussed !!
Malcolm
Login to Like
this post
re: Listing items without a catalog number
I prefer a catalog number, but it's not necessary. Chronological order is a must for me. I can't be bothered with looking through a book with no order. I use Scott numbers but other catalogs also work. I just bought a large amount of stamps and they had catalog numbers and they were in chronological order, sorted by price. It is much easier for me to browse that way.
Vince
1 Member
likes this post.
Login to Like.
re: Listing items without a catalog number
Bulldog, think it is an option to put numbers and the problem comes from which catalogue to use and are buyers willing to pay extra for the additional time to properly identify papers, watermarks, printing etc. These do take time as the thread on Argentina Scott 889a will show.
Bear in mind that most of us do try and arrange items in year order but within price bands. To do strict cat number order would mean all stamps are just one price.
As an exercise soak off a couple of hundred single country stamps (to remove old hinges and paper) dry, press and then make up sheets and scan and enumerate and put catalogue numbers and make up approval books, describing all faults however small. It takes a lot of time for relatively little reward.
If some buyers will not look at lots without catalogue numbers fair enough, but not all are that fussed.
Maybe we should have a section that just lists the catalogue numbers of stamps, without images and invite enquiries for purchase. A scan could then be provided of individual items.
Though this would restrict buyers, in a lot of instances, to the area of publication of the Catalogue system being used.
Login to Like
this post
08:46:03pm
re: Listing items without a catalog number
On auction items I think that catalog numbers are relatively essential, although Scott numbers are as meaningless to those using Gibbons, Yvert, Facit, Michel, etc as those numbers are to those of us using Scott.
On approvals I like things in chronological order as much as possible. When dealing with early Hungary, Mexico, Brazil, etc where there may be several watermarks for each face identical stamp (all hard to see and identify) and all the varieties sell for a nickel or less I don't think it is realistic to expect someone to spend the time to try to figure out the watermarks.... it can take a few attempts on some issues to properly identify them and sometimes it is impossible to do so- especially on red, yellow and orange colored stamps.
Just my thoughts - I know many disagree.
Login to Like
this post
re: Listing items without a catalog number
I think catalog numbers are essential.
1 Member
likes this post.
Login to Like.
06:50:54pm
Auctions - Approvals
re: Listing items without a catalog number
I think it is quite sad that the stamporama members who do not have access to a Scott catalogue and use Gibbons, Michel, Yvert etc
are automatically discriminated against by other members simply because they do not live in the United States of America.
You do not know what you are missing!!!
Sad Sad Sad
Thankfully not all members are this discriminating!!!!
1 Member
likes this post.
Login to Like.
re: Listing items without a catalog number
Brechinite,
Sorry but I don't see how there is discrimination here. No one on this thread said anything about having to use a Scott catalog. Pleas don't turn this into another anti American rant. Use what ever catalog that suits you, believe it or not us Americans can figure it out. I hate to tell you this but this is an international forum which includes Americans no matter how distasteful that may be for you.
Vince
3 Members
like this post.
Login to Like.
08:58:22pm
Auctions - Approvals
re: Listing items without a catalog number
I am NOT anti American. I am NOT getting at Americans.
I am getting at those that want everything their way. Which catalogue numbers do they want, Scotts, Gibbons, Michel, Yvert etc? They never say. How many members have Scotts, Gibbons, Michel, Yvert catalogues?
This hoary old chestnut comes up so regularly.
There is continual moaning and statements " I wont Buy because there are no catalogue numbers", " I won't buy because of this, that or the other".
and I'm just fed up reading the same moans.
Why can't people just accept that things are the way they are without "I want this. I want that. I want the other", and have some consideration for others.
2 Members
like this post.
Login to Like.
re: Listing items without a catalog number
I just gave my opinion that a catalog number is essential. It does not matter to me which catalog number is used. In fact, for areas I have a particular interest I do have catalogs for them from their native country, Michel, Stanley Gibbons, Unitrade, Facit and others.
2 Members
like this post.
Login to Like.
09:10:24pm
Auctions - Approvals
re: Listing items without a catalog number
Smauggie:-
It may be essential to you but it may NOT be essential to others.
NOT everybody has multiple catalogues like you.
2 Members
like this post.
Login to Like.
09:27:51pm
re: Listing items without a catalog number
I have Scott, Gibbons and Michel - complete world wide sets for all three.
I think that many members have more than just one brand of catalog/catalogue.
Login to Like
this post
re: Listing items without a catalog number
"I just gave my opinion "
My dear man, I am not arguing with you, just sharing my thoughts. Everyone is entitled to their own opinion.
4 Members
like this post.
Login to Like.
re: Listing items without a catalog number
I think part of the request behind catalogue numbers may be because potential buyers are not that familiar with a country's stamps to identify them readily especially when catalogs are not fully illustrated either.
I dabble with the Malaysia area and I know catalog numbers I need (have my own cross reference with Scott/SG) but it takes me time to decipher some issues (colors, dies, etc). It is just about convenience. I have just started Singapore and have no clue on issue period just by the images so any number helps.
They are not required but I suspect it will encourage more sales.
2 Members
like this post.
Login to Like.
re: Listing items without a catalog number
At the very least chronological order with some date information. There are MANY, especially older stamps where the scanned image is not necessarily that helpful in identification so a catalog number is essential but most later issues are reasonably easily identifiable with date information although some of the more heavily used definitive theme pictures from various periods are a real challenge!
Any catalog number is a help although like most collectors in the USA I mostly rely on Scott although I am trying out Stanley Gibbons as I work through a Great Britain Windsor album - right now I have fairly good coverage through 1880 then skip to a good representation from 1958 through 1966 so I have a lot of room for improvement. I am working on the lower valued mint (hinged or non-hinged) stamps now through 1970 so lots of fun ahead. I stripped all of the stamps in between to fill in the blanks in an International Part I collection so have a lot of blanks spaces now which are crying out for stamps in the Windsor album. It certainly made the early pages in the Great Britain pages in the International Part I look nice though.
Login to Like
this post
Auctions
re: Listing items without a catalog number
Folks.......
this thread started with a statement about that individual's preferences for viewing lots.
others have weighed in on their preferences as well
and one even gave his preference about reading others' preferences
all of which gives us several options: we can use it as data by which we better refine our listings and our postings; we can ignore it all; or we can argue.
Because they are mere personal preferences, I suggest we all eliminate the third choice from our selections, or run the risk of sounding like a bunch of crotchety old muppets sitting in the balcony of the theatre of the absurd and abused.
Up with Life, down with Strife, love my Wife, and this silliness, well cut it with .....
3 Members
like this post.
Login to Like.
re: Listing items without a catalog number
I find that Scott Catalogue stamps are much nicer in appearance, just my two cents.
Wine
Login to Like
this post
Silence in the face of adversity is the father of complicity and collusion, the first cousins of conspiracy..
13 Oct 2017
06:52:25pm
re: Listing items without a catalog number
" ... How many members have Scotts, Gibbons, Michel, Yvert catalogues? ..."
Me, me, me !
As well as a Facit, a Bolaffi, a Vlastos, a Unitrade, Norgeskatalogen, Danish AFI, NVPH, Leuchtterm, Ceres, as well as smaller Aussie South Seas, and a Sukura as well as a few others that are somewhere on the bookshelf. There is also a Courvessoir Machin catalog and my Machin Bible, the Deegam Complete Machin Handbook.
But for the inexpensive post 1990 issues seldom even look at the posted numbers in the auctions, especially the approval pages. Most are older so I rely on my memory, such as it is, or by opening the appropriate album and checking the spaces.
If I ever decide to put some of my stamps in the auction, and the catalog number is requisite, I might use my cherished 1966 Minkus set with just the letters MK, to see who notices.
I use the catalogs to occasionally search out the minor varieties that are not listed in Scott, or Gibbons.
The point is that for older stamps, or something having a significant value, I do not totally trust OPs ability to accurate identification unless they are well versed in the stamp's country, and for newer issues, choosing stamps I want by memory, is my daily Alzheimer test.
But then, that is just me.
Login to Like
this post
re: Listing items without a catalog number
As a mixed catalog user, (I use Scott, Y&T and Isfila..depending on the country) I will say that much more valuable than catalog numbers, are:
1: List your stamps in chronological order (as much as possible in Approvals, subject to the prices of the page)
2: Give Years, or range of Years. Group your stamps.
3. Don't scatter duplicates all over the place
and finally and lastly Catalog numbers are very much appreciated, when you are in luck to have a fit between your collection and the catalog being quoted. But not mandatory, if you want to be an international club! Ian is right. You cannot be international by staying narrow minded..like the current..(political comment removed)
You may need to provide some additional information to identify varieties (perf , wmk etc).
But my primary "beef" is with Approval Books thrown together in haphazard fashion, which force you to constantly search for the next item through the whole catalog u may have, and literally will get you dizzy going back and forth. Is it so hard to organize a book in some form of order! And for more valuable stamps, please, if not a catalog number, at least give the year!
rrr...
1 Member
likes this post.
Login to Like.
re: Listing items without a catalog number
When selling on a U.S. venue it is most preferred by buyers to include Scott numbers. Of course most venues are now international and buyers will have different preferences on what catalog numbers they want to see. Although catalog numbers are the easiest way to search they are not really required.
Important info is: 1. Country of origin 2. Year issued 3. Scan of stamp (negates the need for several of the following points). 4. Denomination. 5. Subject. 6. Color. 7. Perforation or imperf. 8. Watermark or not. 9. Paper type. 10. Printing type.
This info should be included with any listing on an international site where catalog numbers can become useless to many buyers. Personally I use Scott number plus all of the above that is pertinent to the item.
Of course there are some people who are pretty much clueless on selling and what information should be offered. To do any job correctly some tools are required. The most important tool in selling stamps are catalogs. If a seller doesn't have one then they should not bother trying to sell.
New catalogs are quite expensive, but catalogs that are only a year old can be found very reasonably.
Amazon is the best place to buy used catalogs from. I just picked up a set of 2016 catalogs (minus A-B) from Amazon for around $15 a piece and a 2017 A-B for $29.00
3 Members
like this post.
Login to Like.
re: Listing items without a catalog number
"When selling on a U.S. venue it is most preferred by buyers to include Scott numbers."
Ah, but this is a CANADIAN site!
I'm surprised that in this day and age, there isn't a database that converts a Scott number to say a Gibbons number. At least for the popular countries...
I also see a need for a photo recognition tool. Scan a stamp, and up comes an identification. Not that hard technically, note that you can put a photo into Google and it will instantly find any copies of it on the Internet.
Login to Like
this post
10:11:52am
Auctions - Approvals
re: Listing items without a catalog number
.
"If a seller doesn't have one then they should not bother trying to sell."
Really?
There is another problem with catalogue numbers.
Some catalogues like Stanley Gibbons "Stamps of the World" comes in six volumes costs about $200 and covers all countries.
When you look at France, the 1853 Imperfs the Nos listed are as follows:-
42.......1c
45.......5c
50a......10c
51.......20c
63.......25c
64.......40c
70.......80c
72.......1f
What happened to nos 43& 44, 46-50, 52-62,
Obviously nos 52 etc are for various different types of the 20c, BUT how can I guess what the variations are??
NOT everybody has/wants the level of expertise that some buyers demand or require.
1 Member
likes this post.
Login to Like.
11:01:48am
re: Listing items without a catalog number
If a good illustration of an inexpensive or common stamp is included on a page with the country name that issued that stamp and price asked, why would a seller have to include anything more than that info?
The viewer, it seems to me, has two or three initial identification choices:
1. Look up the stamp in the catalog of their choice
2. Don't look up the stamp
2a. Ask seller for the info required
Next the viewer has two more choices:
1. Buy the stamp
2. Don't buy the stamp and move on
When a very expensive stamp is shown, perhaps there is some case to be made that the seller must include catalog number, especially when stamps resemble each other on the face of it but vary wildly in value.
There is always the possibility that seller might make mistakes on cataloging expensive stamps with wrong catalog number or no catalog number either to the benefit of the buyer or detriment of the seller or both. Another topic.
Perhaps the responsible party/parties could decide what constitutes an expensive stamp and create a rule around that particular example that might be helpful to all rather than bog people down with potentially meaningless detail and time negative factors.
But...cheap stamps? Seems like cluttering up a seller's life. If a seller makes no sales, perhaps the market itself will dictate he/she utilize another method such as including catalog numbers. If not...what's the harm?
Bruce
5 Members
like this post.
Login to Like.
12:12:56pm
re: Listing items without a catalog number
Many opinions have been stated here, as well as many good points.
Just to be clear, the sales platform rules do not require that catalog numbers be used for identification of a stamp.
With that said, sellers should read what others are saying regarding what they look for when they buy stamps. Understand that when listing an item for sale, the more information that is provided, the better the chance if it selling. Most prospective buyers do not want to have to wait for an answer to their questions regarding an item. If they aren't sure, most will simply move on, and a potential sale is lost.
2 Members
like this post.
Login to Like.
re: Listing items without a catalog number
I really prefer letting sellers determine what works best for them. If buyers don't respond to a seller's offerings, then the seller can make changes. Let the marketplace dictate what is acceptable and what is not.
In my case, I would never list a stamp without an image, even if it's only a 5c listing. Most of my low value listings have faults. And I've gotten into the habit of producing larger images. In doing so, prospective buyers get a clearer view of what I'm offering. Since I'm not a dealer, I can afford to spend some extra time doing this and I can understand why dealers may be reluctant to do so.
I tend to put off listing stamps where I don't have a catalog number. As an example, I've got a large collection of Nicaragua telegraph stamps that Scott doesn't list. For years, I didn't touch them. The only information I had was on the old French album pages on which they were mounted. Then, a year or two ago, I discovered Steve Panting's "Telegraph Stamps of the World" web site.
http://gb-precancels.org/Telegraphs/World/Nic.html
Steve has taken the catalog numbers from the old Hiscock catalog (which I had never heard of) and has presented what is essentially an updated online version of that catalog with images and additions to the catalog. I've even passed along a few new varieties for Steve to add to the online catalog. Thanks to Steve's work, I can list these Nicaragua telegraph stamps and include a catalog number. It may not be a catalog most are familiar with, but it's better than nothing and it's available to all potential buyers.
Tom
4 Members
like this post.
Login to Like.
re: Listing items without a catalog number
Tom (keesindy),
Thanks for that link!
Awesome site with some great info!!
Login to Like
this post
A Service Dog gives a person with a disability independence. Never approach, distract or pet a working dog, especially when (s)he is in harness. Never be afraid to ask questions to the handler (parent).
18 Oct 2017
10:04:27am
re: Listing items without a catalog number
I understand why some people want catalogue numbers but for many of us this is not possible. I use Stampworld to create my albums.
To get a catalogue I have to put in a request at the library and wait for it to be returned by whomever has borrowed it (they are always out on loan) and then have it delivered to me. Trying to get all the catalogues at the same time is nearly impossible. Sure there is always a set in reference but I can't go to the library for 5 or 6 hours and try to have someone else look up the stamps and take note of every one of them.
Then I have to have my attendant who knows nothing about stamps to try to find them in the catalogues without my assistance. Then I have to try to identify all faults which is not easy when I can't see past 3" to view my stamps and rely on an electronic magnifier for my collection.
Then I need my attendant to put the stamps into Varios and scan them.
I have lots of stamps that have been waiting over a year to be put up for auction or approvals but I only have about 3 to 4 hours a week (if I can manage to have "stamp time" instead of having a bath) to have someone assist me with my stamps. I use that time for working on my own collection, dreaming of the possibility of putting together auctions and approvals.
So while I respect the desires of individuals who want catalogue numbers, you are putting a limitation on those of us who don't have catalogues or easy access to them.
I think about putting up approvals or auctions every day but since it will take me weeks to identify any faults in every single stamp (or months if I need to include catalogue numbers), I just keep putting it off as a dream for the future while they pile up taking up space and stockbooks that I need for my own collection.
3 Members
like this post.
Login to Like.
re: Listing items without a catalog number
Hi Kelly,
How do you feel about catalog numbers as a buyer? Does it make it easier for you to search an approval book if there are numbers, considering your eyesight difficulty?
Vince
Login to Like
this post
A Service Dog gives a person with a disability independence. Never approach, distract or pet a working dog, especially when (s)he is in harness. Never be afraid to ask questions to the handler (parent).
18 Oct 2017
11:25:34pm
re: Listing items without a catalog number
I memorize the stamps I need and look for those. Being blind or what they consider legally blind because I do have sight (low vision), I depend mostly on memorizing things and that includes my stamps. That is why I use Stampworld because I can't see a catalogue and very limited to see print material.
Login to Like
this post
re: Listing items without a catalog number
Being an Aussie my cataloge shelf is very small......AND old! (Stanley Gibbons, Scott 2000 and Japan most recent.
When I started listing stamps I tried to add Scott # by looking up various sites for similar and usuing SG.
This got SOooooo tedious I have given up numbers. For me - I go by my album to buy stamps - if it is not there I buy/bid.
Certainly Stampworld is just wonderful for getting the year etc.. of a particular item to identify if I have it or not.....but when listing I think the buyer should know what they want and take a good look at the stamp listing for all the gorey details....postmark, perforations, colour etc etc. etc. If you are a good collector with many years of experience - numbers in a catalogue done't matter eh?
4 Members
like this post.
Login to Like.
09:04:49pm
re: Listing items without a catalog number
You can always ask the seller to verify a number for you, if they can.
1 Member
likes this post.
Login to Like.
Silence in the face of adversity is the father of complicity and collusion, the first cousins of conspiracy..
22 Oct 2017
11:56:08am
re: Listing items without a catalog number
" .... The most important tool in selling stamps are catalogs. If a seller doesn't have one then they should not bother trying to sell. ...."
And yet thousands of stamps are successfully sold both through the approval platform, as well as the auction pages, lacking any specific catalog number or consistent order. Not too bad for unsuccessful sellers.
2 Members
like this post.
Login to Like.
Silence in the face of adversity is the father of complicity and collusion, the first cousins of conspiracy..
22 Oct 2017
12:12:15pm
re: Listing items without a catalog number
",,,, I'm surprised that in this day and age, there isn't a database that converts a Scott number to say a Gibbons number ...."
I may be mistaken, but was there not a lawsuit some years ago when someone wanted to do that between Scott's enumeration and Minkus numbers? I think it was when Krause had bought the rights to Minkus Publications.
1 Member
likes this post.
Login to Like.
02:01:45pm
re: Listing items without a catalog number
The basic problem with catalogue numbers is how to describe a stamp that the catalogue does not list?
Take a fictious British Commonwealth stamp - 1956 Upper Bongoland 5c red definitive.
Scott lists this as SC607 red (only).How do I know that SC607 refers to this stamp if you only list it as Upper Bongoland SC607 ?
Look up in Gibbons and you get SG743 red, SG743a red-orange,SG743b carmine,SG 743c scarlet plus 743i and 743ci with inverted watermark, plus vatieties on silk,quadrille and laid paper.
If the Scott user lists SG743a as "SC607 red", the SG user will read that as being SG743 ergo the item could be construed as misdescribed, particularly as the potential Upper Bongoland purchaser has probably never even seen a Scott catalogue. I very much doubt that 1 in 10000 collectors outside the US uses Scott, unless they are a very advanced collector of the USA using the Scott specialised USA catalogue. I have never seen one even in a library in the UK.
I have no objection to seeing the catalogue number in addition to the date and description.If such a listing were to appear you can expect an e-mail asking you to define the shade more exactly than just "red".
While I accept that this is a US/Canada -centric board, I would just remind everyone that there are many members from outside that axis who are happy to contribute - just so long as we know what is being discussed !!
Malcolm
Login to Like
this post