What we collect!
Stamporama Discussion Board Logo
For People Who Love To Talk About Stamps


107 visitors online

Sales, Swaps, Auction & Approvals/Approvals Disc. : Approval Books The simple Activation Rules interpreted for you

AuthorPostings
rrraphy
Members Picture
Retired Ap. Book Mod. Retired Pres Golden Gate Stamp Club, Retired consultant
09 Sep 2017
03:48:45pm
We operate on an HONOR SYSTEM.
Every seller must sign off on these simple 4 rules before activating their books.
If we want to make Approval Books better, we may have to make enforcement a bit tighter, and also change the wording on these rules to make them less subject to interpretation, which we have all been reluctant to do by policy and to enforce.


So here is my take on these 4 Rules, and what they could mean with tighter interpretation, and I suggest some wording changes as well to remove any doubt:

Activation Questions
#1 All items (stamps, sets, S/S, FDC, etc...) are clearly visible as scanned and numbered from 1 to n on each page?
NOTE: Please make sure that you indicate clearly any known defects. Please scan at a high enough resolution to clearly show the listed material.

Tight enforcement consequences: Books with unclear scans, erroneous or masked numbering or unstated stamp defects will be deactivated!

Yes No

#2 Each item (stamps, sets, S/S, FDC, etc...) has its own individual number, clearly associated with it?
NOTE: No numbering by rows; no hidden numbers. Please make an effort to structure your books in an organized fashion.

Tight enforcement consequences: Books with missing or hidden numbers and books that are not structured in some orderly fashion will be deactivated! No more randomly throwing stamps on pages!

Yes No


#3 The book offers a SUBSTANTIAL selection with a MINIMUM of 100 items (mix of stamps, sets, S/S, FDC, etc.) in the chosen collectible area and no more than 3 copies of any individual item?
NOTE: The Moderator may grant an exception for some books (offering a combination of stamps, sets, S/S, covers, etc.), and for countries or topics where a limited stamp selection may make the minimum item requirement difficult to achieve. Exceptions to the "3 Copies Rule" can also be claimed for cancellation varieties, if notated. To get an exception for your book, you must contact the Moderator to obtain a waiver before you publish your book. Books consisting exclusively of covers, sheets, S/S, complete sets, etc., must meet a minimum of 24 items, and are subject to Moderator review.

Tight enforcement consequences: Books that are exceptions to the 100 item rule MUST seek Moderator Approval BEFORE they are activated.
Books are not an excuse for selling one item per page, but must include substantial choices. Books with a mix of stamps and covers,S/S etc... and set cannot squirt the rule by the token inclusion of a few sets, S/S etc..to justify not meeting the rule. Note the word "exclusively" in the rule above.


Incidentally as a comment to clear some confusion, the 100 stamp rule is on FIRST activation. Sellers can add stamps to books later on, if the books are depleted without having to meet the 100 rule again.

Yes No
#4 The book offers stamps in WELL DEFINED, collectible topics that are clearly described in its TITLE and listed in the corresponding Approval Books Category?
NOTE: Please do NOT compile books with unrelated material, "floor sweepings", and do NOT combine unrelated countries or topics, etc.. Your book must fit one of our categories. Make sure the title contains enough information, such as year range, catalog number range, condition, topical subject, etc. to define precisely its content.

Tight enforcement consequences: Books with vague TITLES, bridging categories AND without adequately precise descriptive information will be deactivated! Book not well organized will be deactivated

Yes No
If your answer to all these questions is YES, then you may publish your book.

If you are unsure of an answer, you may message the Approval Books Moderator for an opinion.

If the Moderator determines that your published book is not in compliance with these simple rules, your book may be deactivated until it is edited appropriately, or you submit a request for a waiver from one of more of the rules.

WARNING: Do not relist old material as new after short periods of time. This defies the purpose of the New Books list and is unfriendly towards other member-sellers and buyers alike. Approval Books must remain active for a reasonable duration, not just a short time. Approval books are not to be used as quick auction substitutes, nor as "stores".

Sellers must monitor their book sales. Approval Books must be deactivated when depleted (> 90% sold), when no sales have occurred for several months, or after ONE year from the date the book was published.

This rule is extremely vague, by original design, but could be made more precise.

Stamporama reserves the right to revoke selling privileges of members who violate the Approval Book Rules.

Now as an enforcement comment, this will cause quite a bit of re-learning, and tighter enforcement requires more time to police. But as learning improves, it will be less complex than in the early stages of any "adjustment".
I am on the record as stating that I think it is time to do just that...but it is up to our Management Team first and our membership second to support it.

rrr....

Like
Login to Like
this post

"C. Hitchens — 'That which can be asserted without evidence, can be dismissed without evidence.'"
Brechinite
Members Picture
Neddie Seagoon from The Telegoons
09 Sep 2017
08:23:57pm

Auctions - Approvals
re: Approval Books The simple Activation Rules interpreted for you

rraphy:-

I take exception to part of no4 namely " catalog number range" as this gives the impression that cat nos are compulsory.

Like
Login to Like
this post

"One persons idea of improvement may be detrimental to others...........Some are more equal than others. (Always to be avoided)"
Brechinite
Members Picture
Neddie Seagoon from The Telegoons
09 Sep 2017
08:38:19pm

Auctions - Approvals
re: Approval Books The simple Activation Rules interpreted for you

I also object to the words "floor sweepings".

The Title should be clear and concise, surely the details should be in the Book description section.

In no3 you state "Books consisting exclusively of covers, sheets, S/S, complete sets, etc., must meet a minimum of 24 items, and are subject to Moderator review" What is meant by review?
Then in the "enforcement" you say
Tight enforcement consequences: Books that are exceptions to the 100 item rule MUST seek Moderator Approval BEFORE they are activated"
Surely this should state:-Tight enforcement consequences: Books that are exceptions to the 100 item/24 sets rule MUST seek Moderator Approval BEFORE they are activated"

Overall I see NO need to change the current rules and as they have been historically applied.

Like
Login to Like
this post

"One persons idea of improvement may be detrimental to others...........Some are more equal than others. (Always to be avoided)"
rrraphy
Members Picture
Retired Ap. Book Mod. Retired Pres Golden Gate Stamp Club, Retired consultant
10 Sep 2017
01:27:19pm
re: Approval Books The simple Activation Rules interpreted for you

HAHAHA Ian Time Out, you have no idea how much effort and back and forth went on to finalize the wording of these 4 simple Activation Rules. To say that it drove some Development Team members "batty" would be an understatement.

Now let me do my clarifying,
These are the rules and words that are currently in place. These are also enforced very broadly, as we do not want to create more work. If you read carefully, you will see that these are often, by design, left vague, and are often advisory in nature.
Don't like them, well get involved in helping Managing and Volunteering here. You cannot automate the process with these vague rules, and we must make better use of the computer to do some of the Monitoring, because no volunteer will spend 2 hours a day to manage this platform..and that is what it takes today, as a routine.

As I am about to move on to other things, I would like to pass on and see a simpler system in place for the next Moderators, a system that can rely much more on the power of the computer.

Now you are electing to read these rules in the most inflexible way. Yet they are PURPOSELY vague, and on top of that the past Moderators (Bobby, Theresa and myself) have PURPOSELY not been hard enforcers, always working behind the scene with sellers to ask for minor modifications, to modify, educate, or simply to help the newcomers as they climb the learning curve.

Now when I describe the consequences of "Tight enforcement" it is just to say that one could moderate these books differently within our existing rules, more rigorously, but there would be consequences.
This is a discussion Ian, not even a recommendation. I know you oppose ANY change, but you are not seeing what these demand behind the scene. I am making recommendations based on 4 years of experience doing the work, as well as having helped design the current system. It will be up to the Management Team and any Committee (if any is formed) to look at this and decide, if they want and if they have the time. But a better streamlined system is my recommendation to pass it on to the next volunteers, and it does need a closer look.

Now for your comments:

Quote:

"I take exception to part of no4 namely " catalog number range" as this gives the impression that cat nos are compulsory."



Now in the rule 4 wording that you object to, no one is saying that Cat #s are ever going to be mandated. Please do not get all worked up by making it up when you can clearly see this statement as suggesting ways to define the title better! The important point here is that the title should" define precisely its content."
There are many ways to do so, and there are many interpretations of what makes a book title informative or not. I am just suggesting, and this take NO effort on the part of the sellers, to require titles be more explicit and to demand a title that gives more information to the buyer, so that he/she does not need to look through material that does not interest him. This is a mere courtesy to your buyer! I personally prefer year information to cat number, but each one may have his own preference, and one is free to describe it better as they chose, as books content may differ!

Now your next point about Rule 3:
Quote:

"To get an exception for your book, you must contact the Moderator to obtain a waiver before you publish your book. Books consisting exclusively of covers, sheets, S/S, complete sets, etc., must meet a minimum of 24 items, and are subject to Moderator review."


Right now this is always enforced very loosely, if ever at all. Few ever contact the Moderator in advance, and that is just fine, as most books are acceptable as they are. A computer could automatically suspend Activation of any book under the 100 count until given a green light by the moderator, but that is just extra work and policing. However there are people who have gamed the system, and I think we need to look at this rule and define it more closely, especially for Mixed Books, where (worse case scenario) a seller will put one page with 23 common stamps, and one page with a set (that should have been listed in auctions, except that he wants it listed for a year, and not more briefly, as in Auctions). There are no problems with books made up exclusively with larger items (S/S, FDC, Sets etc...). There are also Books made up of 24 pages with one stamp per page, each one priced individually like you would in a store (except for one set thrown in to "meet" the rule loose interpretation). These are also gaming the system!

Finally the "floor sweeping" wording....Laughing well you have not seen them, and hopefully we stopped them, but some early books were just that, floor sweeping, or just "garbage"! Worldwide picks of items that belonged in the garbage can...floor sweeping was a more gentle word..but "crap" came to my mindRolling On The Floor Laughing!

The Approval Book platform works well, but they take way too much time to manage. We need to automate a few more items, such as the 100 stamp rule (that incidentally was always controversial, and a compromise answer to those wanting no limit and those in favor of higher limits....but we know a lot more about buyer's and sellers now than in the early days, so we may want to revisit it).

In order to automate, we need to remove ambiguities. Where can we automate easily? the 100 Item is one. Automatic retirement of depleted books, another. The book not meeting an assigned category is an other, the 1 year life retirement of a book is another, the retirement of books if no sales occur for a "substantial period" is a third...just to name a few....as Moderator, I can tell you where time is eaten for little benefit.

So the current rules are what we have now, and as we move forward, I suggest we take another look at their meaning and their wordings, and automate, because computer programming does not deal well with vague terminology, and we need to apply what we learned in 4 years and 10,000 books to the future, with more reliance on the computer to ease volunteer dependent time consuming tasks!

rrr..



Like
Login to Like
this post

"C. Hitchens — 'That which can be asserted without evidence, can be dismissed without evidence.'"
Brechinite
Members Picture
Neddie Seagoon from The Telegoons
10 Sep 2017
02:11:22pm

Auctions - Approvals
re: Approval Books The simple Activation Rules interpreted for you

My comments on this subject were only made because you were not clear in the title of this thread. The title given, gave the impression that these were the rules and enforcements. It was only further down the diatribe that it was hinted that these were not the rules that were being enforced NOW. Nowhere was it stated that it was to semi-computerize the management of the system.

The following paragraph substance SHOULD have been put in the initial post:-

This is a discussion Ian, not even a recommendation. I know you oppose ANY change, but you are not seeing what these demand behind the scene. I am making recommendations based on 4 years of experience doing the work, as well as having helped design the current system. It will be up to the Management Team and any Committee (if any is formed) to look at this and decide, if they want and if they have the time. But a better streamlined system is my recommendation to pass it on to the next volunteers, and it does need a closer look.


You are now saying that these are recommendations, for discussion, to make things easier to manage and it is up to the Management Team to discuss and decide on future action on this matter.

I have no problem with that.

It is not that I oppose change. I oppose change for changes sake and changes that are not logical and changes/words that demean other collectors/members.

Like
Login to Like
this post

"One persons idea of improvement may be detrimental to others...........Some are more equal than others. (Always to be avoided)"
rrraphy
Members Picture
Retired Ap. Book Mod. Retired Pres Golden Gate Stamp Club, Retired consultant
10 Sep 2017
02:18:34pm
re: Approval Books The simple Activation Rules interpreted for you

Quote:

"It is not that I oppose change. I oppose change for changes sake and changes that are not logical and changes/words that demean other collectors/members."



Well to me it sounds like you oppose ANY change. Also, why don't you write my posts from now on... your wording is so much superior!

Further more, get informed before making personal accusations "
Quote:

"One also has to stop one individuals ideas, preconceived prejudices becoming part of Rules and Enforcements.""



OK peace my friend....

Ian, let us move on...I trust both you and I want the same thing...a good system for Sellers and Buyers alike. I never doubted your motivation. I will write to you personally on this. Rock On
rrr...

Like
Login to Like
this post

"C. Hitchens — 'That which can be asserted without evidence, can be dismissed without evidence.'"
Brechinite
Members Picture
Neddie Seagoon from The Telegoons
10 Sep 2017
03:17:53pm

Auctions - Approvals
re: Approval Books The simple Activation Rules interpreted for you

Thanks rraphy for the personal message. I have just replied.

Let me make one thing clear:- I was not singling out one individual but a number of ideas from several individuals between this thread and a thread titled "Buyers Leaving" in the Auctions and Approvals Topic.

Ideas which I found unacceptable for stamps selling at less than 15 cents in the Approvals System.

P.S. rrraphy I do not do speech writing but if you need a spin doctor, my rates are quite good.............(Hee Hee Hee)

Like
Login to Like
this post

"One persons idea of improvement may be detrimental to others...........Some are more equal than others. (Always to be avoided)"
cdj1122
Members Picture
Silence in the face of adversity is the father of complicity and collusion, the first cousins of conspiracy..
11 Sep 2017
04:35:06am
re: Approval Books The simple Activation Rules interpreted for you

... Make sure the title contains enough information, such as year range, catalog number range, condition, topical subject, etc. to define precisely its content...."

That is all well and good, but I'd add one further stipulation, somewhere that it would seem appropriate.
Almost all stamps were designed to have a top and a bottom so the viewer could see the image without needing to meet the Great Walenda's minimum standard for new employees.
A few sellers must be occasionally inserting the stamps on the page with the page turned left, or right, or down side up, and one of these days I am going to drop the PC while inverting it, or setting it on a side to be able to figure out what stamp is being shown.
Or if you are intending to mount some syamps other than right side down, at least do the whole page that way. An exception could be made for Dutch stamps that even when looked at the traditional way conceal the value and often the word "Nederland" very cleverly.

Like 
3 Members
like this post.
Login to Like.

".... You may think you understood what you thought I said, but I'm not sure you realize that what you think you heard is not what I thought I meant. .... "
sheepshanks
Members Picture
11 Sep 2017
09:21:32am
re: Approval Books The simple Activation Rules interpreted for you

Charlie, I am guilty of that on occasion but it is usually because it is an odd sized stamp that comes in year order and I do not want to start a new sheet just for one or two stamps that will now be out of order.

Like
Login to Like
this post
cdj1122
Members Picture
Silence in the face of adversity is the father of complicity and collusion, the first cousins of conspiracy..
11 Sep 2017
04:06:13pm
re: Approval Books The simple Activation Rules interpreted for you

One or two stamps now and then, I can twirl the PC around for that, what is tiring when a multi page book has three or four N, E, S, & W. on almost every page.

Like 
1 Member
likes this post.
Login to Like.

".... You may think you understood what you thought I said, but I'm not sure you realize that what you think you heard is not what I thought I meant. .... "
BlueCollarWrench
Members Picture
Scaramento Philatelic Society #2112, ISWWSC #2966, Iran philatelic study circle, US Army Veteran, Grandfather of 6, stamp collector/seller!
18 Sep 2017
07:18:40am
re: Approval Books The simple Activation Rules interpreted for you

Man am I glad I just read that entire thread..
Your honor, I object!
100 stamp minimum? Heck I enjoy buying and selling stamps as a hobby. This isn't a job for me..
I noticed it said to get the monitors approval. I was thinking about putting 50 of my extras to try out the approval book section. I don't know now. Already ran into into getting approved in another area..
I agree with no crap..
I agree with rows of 5-6 stamps, upright and with space between for the numbers..
IMO. Thanks

Like
Login to Like
this post

"Thanks to all our Veterans, past and present"
michael78651
Members Picture
SOR Auctioneer
18 Sep 2017
09:54:48am
re: Approval Books The simple Activation Rules interpreted for you

At the beginning there was no minimum on the size of approval books. As a result, we found a huge inventory of approval books arise, many with literally just a few stamps in them. People were complaining that they found it a waste of time to sift through the long list of books and only find a dozen stamps in a book.

I wasn't on the work group for the approvals, but I know they had long discussions on setting a minimum. The 100 count was a compromise, figuring that people with less and unable to create an approval book could use the auctions.

The classified ads came along later, and became another avenue for people to try to sell their stamps. I wouldn't recommend using the classified ads to sell single, low-valued stamps, however.

Like
Login to Like
this post

"My book, "The Whitechapel Fog" is available on Kindle!"

www.hipstamp.com/store/the-online-stamp-shop
BlueCollarWrench
Members Picture
Scaramento Philatelic Society #2112, ISWWSC #2966, Iran philatelic study circle, US Army Veteran, Grandfather of 6, stamp collector/seller!
18 Sep 2017
01:40:26pm
re: Approval Books The simple Activation Rules interpreted for you

So I broke out the green album collection. I did some counting of the lower value stamps I have organised. I have at least a hundred..no harm no foul

Like
Login to Like
this post

"Thanks to all our Veterans, past and present"
        
Please Note:
Postings that were loaded from the old Discussion Board cannot be edited.

Contact Webmaster | Visitors Online | Unsubscribe Emails


This site is provided by Roy Lingen at www.buckacover.com

User Agreement

Copyright © 2019 Stamporama.com