Discussion - Member to Member Sales - Research Center
Discussion - Member to Member Sales - Research Center
I have included another bad one from Denmark, where I live, and another to show they can do it properly.
Is it just an old fogey like me that long for the old fashioned postmarks where you could see the town name, date and time? Is it pure laziness on the part of the P.O that they do this awful hand cancelling?
I'd like to hear if anyone also is getting this kind of stuff. No wonder people have stopped using snail mail and stamps clubs see dwindling membership (at least that is the case here).
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You are not alone Tedmast.
I too have received mail with similar atrocities done to the cover. I have been at war with Canada Post for a few years now regarding this same problem. On three occasions (at least) we were provided an official form to send in the hope of remedying this problem, but, to no avail. Canada Post is too big to even care. Of course, I am referring to my personal experiences here. Others may have had better experiences.
Chimo
Bujutsu
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OMG!!! The Sharpie disease is spreading across Europe!!!
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The USPS mission statement.
"The Postal Service shall have as its basic function the obligation to provide postal services to bind the nation together through the personal, educational, literary, and business correspondence of the people."
Are we reading into this that they have an obligation to cancel stamps a certain way as a part of the service they offer?
Do postal systems in other countries have mission statements which support cancelling stamp a certain way?
Don
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Don
I would suggest that any postal service has a responsibility to cancel the mail in such a way that indicates the time and date of posting so that
A) In case of a contractural dispute between the sender and recipient, there is some guidance available as to the likely sequence of sending and receiving, and also in the case of criminal proceedings the mail can be used as evidence ( there is a famous case in Scottish Law where the date of a postmark was crucial evidence in a murder trial).
B) Some idea can be gained as to the speed with which mail is conveyed from point X to point Y as a measure as to whether the post office is doing it's properly. It would also be useful for the post office to identify possible pinch-points in it's logistics network.
The use of undated means of cancelling is lazy, misleading and possibly downright dishonest.Regrettably postal authorities worldwide often see themselves as an end in itself, responsible to nobody , rather than a service to expedite communication and business for their servants ( i.e. you and I ).
"Mission statements " ( horrible term ) are sometimes just so much window dressing to fool the poor innocent customer that the organisation actually gives a damn.
Malcolm
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Hi Malcolm,
Actually the postal regulations in many countries demand that they are to protect loss of income by cancelling all stamps to prevent reuse. So they are not being lazy or dishonest, they are given pens and told to do this by the postal service ( at least here in the USA).
And in terms of speed and efficiency, this is another reason they do it. The mail is getting to postal customers faster by having employees cancel the stamps in real-time rather than pulling the piece out of the mail stream and reprocessing it.
Mission statements are targeted at shareholders and investors as a means to communicate a ‘top down’ understanding of the objective of a company or organization. (They are found in every single Annual Report for every public company.) If you have to summarize and describe what a company or organization does in the single sentence or two then this is what is traditionally used.
Don
Edit; Here is a link in another forum that discusses the same topic and justifications
http://forums.delphiforums.com/stamps/messages/?start=Start+Reading+%3E%3E
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I quite agree that the post office of any country should ensure that it's stamps are cancelled to deter re-use and accept that anything they do is ok, just not to our satisfaction.
Our local post office will hand cancel all items I take in and I can have a coffee for a dollar while I'm there. Cookies too sometimes.
I recently received a package from UK which my daughter had specifically had stamps put on which arrived here in Canada without a single cancel, machine or hand, so rendering them now used on cover but no proof of postal use or soaked mint no gum. (High value Machins!)
Regarding the "buzzwords" it really irritates me when people use terms such as Human resources (staff department), Mission statement (plan) and Uber ( great) etc.
Whatever happened to plain speech or am I just old fashioned and stuck in a rut, or perhaps just old and grumpy ( might make a good film).
Rant over, back to the Wildings.
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Wow, critical of the way people write posts? I thought this was supposed to be a friendly forum?
Don
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No Don, not critical of the way people write posts, I did not criticise anyone, merely expressed my thoughts that the buzzwords irritate me.
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I am an engineer who worked his way up the corporate ladder to eventually be on several Boards of Directors. Words like ‘mission statement’ are a part of that business culture; I also tend to use some pretty geeky technical nomenclature at times too.
Just like collecting preferences, we should not be tolerant and considerate of others? English might not a person’s first language, we all come from different backgrounds, we all have different levels of education and experiences. Heck I live in the southern US and might occasionally use an incorrect “y’all”.
I certainly did not intentionally try to irritate anyone, it is just the way I write and who I am. But now there are two posts in this thread which are critical of the words I choose to use, obviously I have worn out my welcome. This community is tightknit and trying to become part of it has not been easy. I apologize that my posts were found to be bothersome to others, I will refrain from any additional postings here.
Don
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There's always those one or two in every crowd who are habitually grumpy and opinionated and can't seem to post without interjecting some of their grumpiness....these are ours.
....please continue posting, Don.
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Don
Please do not get uptight about anything I said, nothing personal. I personally find it awkward for Brits to use Americanisms in order to give the impression that this gives them some sort of kudos as forward thinking. It is fine for Americans to use Americanisms in America - after all it is your culture. However it is not ours.
I spent some 40 years in business here without resorting to the use of terms like "Mission Statement","Strapline","Blue Sky Thinking","Thinking Outside the Box" or any of the other expressions beloved of people forever trying to impress their peers or subordinates ( in my experience it certainly does not impress their superiors !). My own favourite hate is "Going forward " - that is what you do when you ride a bicycle.
I think I am somewhat of a pedant, but at school ( eons ago ) good "plain" easily understood English was insisted upon, and the use of any sort of "jargon" ( as opposed to correct technical terminology) was almost a capital offence. Even today I dislike sloppy English,(grammar,punctuation or syntax) - certainly in an official written communication - as opposed to e-mails,discussion boards or the like. I was horrified when written communications from my children's schoolteachers arrived full of spelling mistakes !! I felt like sending them back inscribed ( in red ink) 4/10 see me !! UK readers will get the reference !
To go back to my original point, no one has mentioned my comment about legible place,time and date to verify the progress of a letter. You might say that a pen cancellation effectively cancels the stamp to prevent reuse but it does not tell you when the letter was posted, and that can be vital information.
Malcolm
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Malcolm,
on the date stamp, yes, that's the reason they should have been used initially upon entering the mailstream, but, that ship sailed (we just don't know when) and most of these pen markings are much further down the distribution stream, where information on where and when are long gone, and only revenu protection remains.
As to proper English, on either side of the Atlantic, we fight a losing battle. But I've long ago given up my annoyance at improper usage, poor word choice, the befuddlement caused by apostrophes in anything other than Irish surnames, misplaced modifiers, and the like. Online chats and the like will quickly seal grammar's doom, but it's not the cause, merely a reflection of its irrelevance.
David
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A constant source of personal humor to me (probably will confine me to a rung in Dante's inferno) is how people interpret each others' opinions.
Regardless of rank, an opinion is just that with little or no import at all. It's just an expressed opinion. One either accepts the opinion or rejects the opinion. It's so easy. I suppose if we are bantering among ourselves about scientific principles...that might require a preciseness that most opinions do not demand.
Aside from arguments, discussions, and possibly worse regarding the proper definitions of what constitutes politics and that topic's subsequent taboo, which by the way is an almost impossible definition to define with any accuracy (hey just an opinion about opinions), I have found that in general people on this forum are a great bunch with their heads firmly planted on their shoulders rather than, uhm, well the other place.
Having said that, I take umbrage to this statement by Don:
"Wow, critical of the way people write posts? I thought this was supposed to be a friendly forum?"
While taking aforementioned umbrage against that statement above (people are indeed friendly here--just my opinion of course), I concede that Don has the right to express his opinion. Some people might agree with his sentiment; others would disagree; some might suggest that such a generalization has a trolling aspect to it. In the long run, it is an opinion.
There is an old expression from Afghanistan: The dogs bark and the caravan moves on.
Bruce
PS: Methinks we fight a losing battle over proper cancellations versus sharpie/magic marker obliterations. Such an argument while valid also seems like something that arises from a long dead era similar to how many angels dance upon the head of a pin.
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I see no problem with how the Canadian stamps were cancelled.
What I had a Huge issue with was how Canada Post was affixing large adhesive stickers over the stamps of all my incoming registered mail, ruining the stamps in the process. The stickers could not be peeled off without taking a layer of the stamp with them.
I wrote to CP and complained as loud as I could. Even sent them an invoice one time for a damaged letter, arguing that the cover was my property and had value.
Over time I noticed a significant improvement.
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I got a letter yesterday from the UK and was dismayed at how the Royal Mail had disfigured what were otherwise collectable stamps. I also had mail from Canada, and though not as mutilated as that from the UK, I still think the cancelling is a shame.
I have included another bad one from Denmark, where I live, and another to show they can do it properly.
Is it just an old fogey like me that long for the old fashioned postmarks where you could see the town name, date and time? Is it pure laziness on the part of the P.O that they do this awful hand cancelling?
I'd like to hear if anyone also is getting this kind of stuff. No wonder people have stopped using snail mail and stamps clubs see dwindling membership (at least that is the case here).
Login to Like
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re: Fancy Cancels!
You are not alone Tedmast.
I too have received mail with similar atrocities done to the cover. I have been at war with Canada Post for a few years now regarding this same problem. On three occasions (at least) we were provided an official form to send in the hope of remedying this problem, but, to no avail. Canada Post is too big to even care. Of course, I am referring to my personal experiences here. Others may have had better experiences.
Chimo
Bujutsu
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10:32:07pm
re: Fancy Cancels!
OMG!!! The Sharpie disease is spreading across Europe!!!
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re: Fancy Cancels!
The USPS mission statement.
"The Postal Service shall have as its basic function the obligation to provide postal services to bind the nation together through the personal, educational, literary, and business correspondence of the people."
Are we reading into this that they have an obligation to cancel stamps a certain way as a part of the service they offer?
Do postal systems in other countries have mission statements which support cancelling stamp a certain way?
Don
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04:06:46pm
re: Fancy Cancels!
Don
I would suggest that any postal service has a responsibility to cancel the mail in such a way that indicates the time and date of posting so that
A) In case of a contractural dispute between the sender and recipient, there is some guidance available as to the likely sequence of sending and receiving, and also in the case of criminal proceedings the mail can be used as evidence ( there is a famous case in Scottish Law where the date of a postmark was crucial evidence in a murder trial).
B) Some idea can be gained as to the speed with which mail is conveyed from point X to point Y as a measure as to whether the post office is doing it's properly. It would also be useful for the post office to identify possible pinch-points in it's logistics network.
The use of undated means of cancelling is lazy, misleading and possibly downright dishonest.Regrettably postal authorities worldwide often see themselves as an end in itself, responsible to nobody , rather than a service to expedite communication and business for their servants ( i.e. you and I ).
"Mission statements " ( horrible term ) are sometimes just so much window dressing to fool the poor innocent customer that the organisation actually gives a damn.
Malcolm
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re: Fancy Cancels!
Hi Malcolm,
Actually the postal regulations in many countries demand that they are to protect loss of income by cancelling all stamps to prevent reuse. So they are not being lazy or dishonest, they are given pens and told to do this by the postal service ( at least here in the USA).
And in terms of speed and efficiency, this is another reason they do it. The mail is getting to postal customers faster by having employees cancel the stamps in real-time rather than pulling the piece out of the mail stream and reprocessing it.
Mission statements are targeted at shareholders and investors as a means to communicate a ‘top down’ understanding of the objective of a company or organization. (They are found in every single Annual Report for every public company.) If you have to summarize and describe what a company or organization does in the single sentence or two then this is what is traditionally used.
Don
Edit; Here is a link in another forum that discusses the same topic and justifications
http://forums.delphiforums.com/stamps/messages/?start=Start+Reading+%3E%3E
Login to Like
this post
re: Fancy Cancels!
I quite agree that the post office of any country should ensure that it's stamps are cancelled to deter re-use and accept that anything they do is ok, just not to our satisfaction.
Our local post office will hand cancel all items I take in and I can have a coffee for a dollar while I'm there. Cookies too sometimes.
I recently received a package from UK which my daughter had specifically had stamps put on which arrived here in Canada without a single cancel, machine or hand, so rendering them now used on cover but no proof of postal use or soaked mint no gum. (High value Machins!)
Regarding the "buzzwords" it really irritates me when people use terms such as Human resources (staff department), Mission statement (plan) and Uber ( great) etc.
Whatever happened to plain speech or am I just old fashioned and stuck in a rut, or perhaps just old and grumpy ( might make a good film).
Rant over, back to the Wildings.
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re: Fancy Cancels!
Wow, critical of the way people write posts? I thought this was supposed to be a friendly forum?
Don
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re: Fancy Cancels!
No Don, not critical of the way people write posts, I did not criticise anyone, merely expressed my thoughts that the buzzwords irritate me.
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this post
re: Fancy Cancels!
I am an engineer who worked his way up the corporate ladder to eventually be on several Boards of Directors. Words like ‘mission statement’ are a part of that business culture; I also tend to use some pretty geeky technical nomenclature at times too.
Just like collecting preferences, we should not be tolerant and considerate of others? English might not a person’s first language, we all come from different backgrounds, we all have different levels of education and experiences. Heck I live in the southern US and might occasionally use an incorrect “y’all”.
I certainly did not intentionally try to irritate anyone, it is just the way I write and who I am. But now there are two posts in this thread which are critical of the words I choose to use, obviously I have worn out my welcome. This community is tightknit and trying to become part of it has not been easy. I apologize that my posts were found to be bothersome to others, I will refrain from any additional postings here.
Don
Login to Like
this post
re: Fancy Cancels!
There's always those one or two in every crowd who are habitually grumpy and opinionated and can't seem to post without interjecting some of their grumpiness....these are ours.
....please continue posting, Don.
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04:23:00pm
re: Fancy Cancels!
Don
Please do not get uptight about anything I said, nothing personal. I personally find it awkward for Brits to use Americanisms in order to give the impression that this gives them some sort of kudos as forward thinking. It is fine for Americans to use Americanisms in America - after all it is your culture. However it is not ours.
I spent some 40 years in business here without resorting to the use of terms like "Mission Statement","Strapline","Blue Sky Thinking","Thinking Outside the Box" or any of the other expressions beloved of people forever trying to impress their peers or subordinates ( in my experience it certainly does not impress their superiors !). My own favourite hate is "Going forward " - that is what you do when you ride a bicycle.
I think I am somewhat of a pedant, but at school ( eons ago ) good "plain" easily understood English was insisted upon, and the use of any sort of "jargon" ( as opposed to correct technical terminology) was almost a capital offence. Even today I dislike sloppy English,(grammar,punctuation or syntax) - certainly in an official written communication - as opposed to e-mails,discussion boards or the like. I was horrified when written communications from my children's schoolteachers arrived full of spelling mistakes !! I felt like sending them back inscribed ( in red ink) 4/10 see me !! UK readers will get the reference !
To go back to my original point, no one has mentioned my comment about legible place,time and date to verify the progress of a letter. You might say that a pen cancellation effectively cancels the stamp to prevent reuse but it does not tell you when the letter was posted, and that can be vital information.
Malcolm
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Login to Like.
re: Fancy Cancels!
Malcolm,
on the date stamp, yes, that's the reason they should have been used initially upon entering the mailstream, but, that ship sailed (we just don't know when) and most of these pen markings are much further down the distribution stream, where information on where and when are long gone, and only revenu protection remains.
As to proper English, on either side of the Atlantic, we fight a losing battle. But I've long ago given up my annoyance at improper usage, poor word choice, the befuddlement caused by apostrophes in anything other than Irish surnames, misplaced modifiers, and the like. Online chats and the like will quickly seal grammar's doom, but it's not the cause, merely a reflection of its irrelevance.
David
Login to Like
this post
03:21:29pm
re: Fancy Cancels!
A constant source of personal humor to me (probably will confine me to a rung in Dante's inferno) is how people interpret each others' opinions.
Regardless of rank, an opinion is just that with little or no import at all. It's just an expressed opinion. One either accepts the opinion or rejects the opinion. It's so easy. I suppose if we are bantering among ourselves about scientific principles...that might require a preciseness that most opinions do not demand.
Aside from arguments, discussions, and possibly worse regarding the proper definitions of what constitutes politics and that topic's subsequent taboo, which by the way is an almost impossible definition to define with any accuracy (hey just an opinion about opinions), I have found that in general people on this forum are a great bunch with their heads firmly planted on their shoulders rather than, uhm, well the other place.
Having said that, I take umbrage to this statement by Don:
"Wow, critical of the way people write posts? I thought this was supposed to be a friendly forum?"
While taking aforementioned umbrage against that statement above (people are indeed friendly here--just my opinion of course), I concede that Don has the right to express his opinion. Some people might agree with his sentiment; others would disagree; some might suggest that such a generalization has a trolling aspect to it. In the long run, it is an opinion.
There is an old expression from Afghanistan: The dogs bark and the caravan moves on.
Bruce
PS: Methinks we fight a losing battle over proper cancellations versus sharpie/magic marker obliterations. Such an argument while valid also seems like something that arises from a long dead era similar to how many angels dance upon the head of a pin.
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likes this post.
Login to Like.
re: Fancy Cancels!
I see no problem with how the Canadian stamps were cancelled.
What I had a Huge issue with was how Canada Post was affixing large adhesive stickers over the stamps of all my incoming registered mail, ruining the stamps in the process. The stickers could not be peeled off without taking a layer of the stamp with them.
I wrote to CP and complained as loud as I could. Even sent them an invoice one time for a damaged letter, arguing that the cover was my property and had value.
Over time I noticed a significant improvement.
Login to Like
this post