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Europe/Other : Hungary Watermarks

 

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seanpashby
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09 Aug 2017
04:05:36pm
Does anyone have images of the full sheet of early Hungarian watermarks? I especially need 136a as I have an anomaly to check on.
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HungaryForStamps
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10 Aug 2017
03:27:29pm
re: Hungary Watermarks

All I have with me are these at the moment.

WM Michel IV

Image Not Found

WM Michel V

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WM Michel VI

Image Not Found

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HungaryForStamps
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10 Aug 2017
05:27:10pm
re: Hungary Watermarks

Of course Michel IV is Scott WM 136a.

And Scott does not distinguish the other two WMs, though they are clearly distinct.

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michael78651
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Moderator, MT Member

10 Aug 2017
08:33:24pm
re: Hungary Watermarks

I'm sure you didn't mean it the way that it sounds. So as not to cause any confusion,

Michel watermarks V and VI are Scott watermark 136.

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"Author: Seasons of Fantasies and Dreams, The Whitechapel Fog"

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seanpashby
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10 Aug 2017
11:06:33pm
re: Hungary Watermarks

I knew what you meant, I have a Michel, and my collection separates wmk 5 and wmk 6. I know that wmk 3(135 circles) has a 4 point star and VI (paper makers mark) 4 times per sheet. I have a 12 f postage due wmk 4, perf 11.5(scott 15a) Unused that clearly shows a VI in the space between 4 of the crowns. I have not heard mention of VI being on any other watermark except wmk3. This is not the best picture, but you can clearly see it.
Any idea what this is? The only one like it I have seen in the thousands of 136a stamps I have. Thanks for those images by the way.

Image Not Found

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HungaryForStamps
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11 Aug 2017
04:52:55pm
re: Hungary Watermarks

The paper grade watermark, which was IV for postage stamps, was used on stamps with crown watermarks between 1899 and 1908. Up to 1904, when the cross on the crown was (incorrectly) titled to the right, you would see IV, otherwise you would see VI. After that, IV is shown when cross is correctly tilted left.

On the small crown WM (136a) the IV/VI appeared once per sheet of 400 stamps, so its rarer than in the circle/oval WMs of previous issues. Not all sheets will have the IV/VI if it occurred on the edge of the paper sheet.

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seanpashby
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11 Aug 2017
10:22:14pm
re: Hungary Watermarks

Thank you Lewis! This is the first one I have found, but now will keep my eyes out for more. It's amazing that this is not mentioned anywhere. Where did you find this info?

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seanpashby
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12 Aug 2017
04:50:40pm
re: Hungary Watermarks

This image from the MBA catalog was provided by Csaba Kohalmi from the Society for Hungarian Philately. Now I need to look for one with the IV diamond.

Image Not Found

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HungaryForStamps
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13 Aug 2017
07:28:12pm
re: Hungary Watermarks

That's from the Magyar Posta catalog. The most recent I have is 2012/2013. Here is the latest:

https://eshop.posta.hu/storefront/belyeg/belyeggy-jtesi-kellekek/magyar-posta-es-illetekbelyeg-katalogus-2016-17/prod4104841.html

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seanpashby

09 Aug 2017
04:05:36pm

Does anyone have images of the full sheet of early Hungarian watermarks? I especially need 136a as I have an anomaly to check on.

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HungaryForStamps

10 Aug 2017
03:27:29pm

re: Hungary Watermarks

All I have with me are these at the moment.

WM Michel IV

Image Not Found

WM Michel V

Image Not Found

WM Michel VI

Image Not Found

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HungaryForStamps

10 Aug 2017
05:27:10pm

re: Hungary Watermarks

Of course Michel IV is Scott WM 136a.

And Scott does not distinguish the other two WMs, though they are clearly distinct.

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michael78651

Moderator, MT Member
10 Aug 2017
08:33:24pm

re: Hungary Watermarks

I'm sure you didn't mean it the way that it sounds. So as not to cause any confusion,

Michel watermarks V and VI are Scott watermark 136.

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this post

"Author: Seasons of Fantasies and Dreams, The Whitechapel Fog"

www.hipstamp.com/sto ...
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seanpashby

10 Aug 2017
11:06:33pm

re: Hungary Watermarks

I knew what you meant, I have a Michel, and my collection separates wmk 5 and wmk 6. I know that wmk 3(135 circles) has a 4 point star and VI (paper makers mark) 4 times per sheet. I have a 12 f postage due wmk 4, perf 11.5(scott 15a) Unused that clearly shows a VI in the space between 4 of the crowns. I have not heard mention of VI being on any other watermark except wmk3. This is not the best picture, but you can clearly see it.
Any idea what this is? The only one like it I have seen in the thousands of 136a stamps I have. Thanks for those images by the way.

Image Not Found

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this post
Members Picture
HungaryForStamps

11 Aug 2017
04:52:55pm

re: Hungary Watermarks

The paper grade watermark, which was IV for postage stamps, was used on stamps with crown watermarks between 1899 and 1908. Up to 1904, when the cross on the crown was (incorrectly) titled to the right, you would see IV, otherwise you would see VI. After that, IV is shown when cross is correctly tilted left.

On the small crown WM (136a) the IV/VI appeared once per sheet of 400 stamps, so its rarer than in the circle/oval WMs of previous issues. Not all sheets will have the IV/VI if it occurred on the edge of the paper sheet.

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seanpashby

11 Aug 2017
10:22:14pm

re: Hungary Watermarks

Thank you Lewis! This is the first one I have found, but now will keep my eyes out for more. It's amazing that this is not mentioned anywhere. Where did you find this info?

Like
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this post
Members Picture
seanpashby

12 Aug 2017
04:50:40pm

re: Hungary Watermarks

This image from the MBA catalog was provided by Csaba Kohalmi from the Society for Hungarian Philately. Now I need to look for one with the IV diamond.

Image Not Found

Like
Login to Like
this post
Members Picture
HungaryForStamps

13 Aug 2017
07:28:12pm

re: Hungary Watermarks

That's from the Magyar Posta catalog. The most recent I have is 2012/2013. Here is the latest:

https://eshop.posta.hu/storefront/belyeg/belyeggy-jtesi-kellekek/magyar-posta-es-illetekbelyeg-katalogus-2016-17/prod4104841.html

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