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General Philatelic/Newcomer Cnr : To Selvedge or not to Selvedge..

 

Author
Postings
skitownteacher

09 Aug 2017
02:01:40pm
Two beginner questions wrapped into one:

I'm trying to get a straight answer on whether or not to retail selvedge portions of individual stamps. My question pertains both to used and mint stamps if there is any difference.

I understand the basic idea of the selvedge being useful in identifying the location of a stamp on it's sheet, but If I'm being honest, the collection that I am building with my son is for the joy of collecting rather than potential future value.

With used stamps I usually keep the selvedge if it is interesting or doesn't get in the way of other stamps in the album, but some I feel I could remove.

Mint stamps, I've been folding the selvedge prior to putting it in the sleeve, but this gets quite bulky sometimes.

I know this is likely a matter of personal preference, but I'm curious if there are any circumstances where I should be ABSOLUTELY keeping the selvedge on the stamp...I imagine what I do from there boils down to my own personal preference.

Thanks in advance for the advice that I'm sure I'll receive.

Andrew

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amsd
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Editor, Seal News; contributor, JuicyHeads

09 Aug 2017
02:20:42pm
re: To Selvedge or not to Selvedge..

Andrew

Your namesake is on the DL in Cleveland. Pity.

for a newby, you managed to answer your question quite effectively. I'll add my own perspective.

Selvedge does lots of things: IDs the position of the stamp on the sheet or pane. In some cases, the PB makes identifying the stamp easier. Several members make positive IDs of difficutl to ID WF stamps via the PB number.

In some cases, selvedge contains auxilliary printing that provides history, such as Mr ZIP in all his guises, or bio on Hubert Humphrey.

In all cases, it makes the stamp rarer by distinguishing it from all its other brethern that are otherwise indistinguishable.

I seldom sever selvedge; and folding it over will stress the paper, making the decision unnecessary.

In short, in almost all cases, I save the selvedge. In most cases, it will not add to the value, and for many, it will detract from the appearance. But, as you said, it's my stamp in my album.

David

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upsguy62
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09 Aug 2017
04:31:38pm
re: To Selvedge or not to Selvedge..

Andrew

David made a lot of good points. And he is correct, you did do a good job of answering your own questions. To me, it boils down to this...move where the spirit takes you. If you like the selvedge, keep it. If not, remove it. There are as many reasons to collect a stamp as there are grains of sand on the beach. The most important thing is that you are spending time with your son and introducing him to this wonderful hobby. Make your collection your own and enjoy it!

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51Studebaker
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Dialysis, damned if you do...dead if you don't

09 Aug 2017
04:44:24pm
re: To Selvedge or not to Selvedge..

Agreed. But I might add...have you considered letting your son make this decision? Might be a good learning opportunity and life skills lesson.
Don

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Ningpo
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09 Aug 2017
05:47:08pm
re: To Selvedge or not to Selvedge..

"but I'm curious if there are any circumstances where I should be ABSOLUTELY keeping the selvedge on the stamp.."



It does depend on how common the material is BUT (and I know this an extreme example):



SG Catalogue value: £1,300 (normal, without selvedge)

Image Not Found


Sold on eBay, December 2013: £4,394
.


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BenFranklin1902
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Tom in Exton, PA

09 Aug 2017
07:37:41pm
re: To Selvedge or not to Selvedge..

As said, it's a personal decision. In most cases stamps are cheap enough that it doesn't matter value wise. Like David, I do not sever selvage. In fact if I'm choosing a stamp for my collection and one has selvage, that's the one I choose just because it's distinguishable from the 50 million of the same issue that don't have it. In fact, I have always liked the corner selvage and have collected all four corners on a bunch of issues.

Image Not Found

Here's one of my album pages, and look at the single I chose for the collection. It has selvage and also has the postal clerk's notation that this was the top sheet of a stack of 100 sheets. I found that unique and wanted it over the other 50 copies I own.

Image Not Found

And note the examples I've chosen for this stamp issue. The single has bottom selvage. The first day cover has a pair with the corner selvage. Find another one of these!

So that's my take on the subject.

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keesindy
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01 Nov 2017
10:59:42am
re: To Selvedge or not to Selvedge..

Image Not Found

Stamp collectors are a creative bunch and selvage apparently has uses beyond those we commonly think about.

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keesindy
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15 Nov 2017
05:48:33pm
re: To Selvedge or not to Selvedge..

Continuing with the selvage topic, I think this is an interesting item from South Africa, Scott #49 and SG #56 (or 56i?). Scott lists it at minimum value, but it has a very clear and nicely centered selvage watermark that may be of interest to someone here at SoR with a special interest in selvage and/or watermarks. PM me with a mailing address if you have such an interest and want this.

Tom

Image Not Found

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smauggie
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15 Nov 2017
09:52:59pm
re: To Selvedge or not to Selvedge..

Consider this: Regarding plating or detecting varieties in stamps it is often helpful to determine the location of the stamp in the pane or sheet. Selvage helps to identify the location of the stamp.

Also consider: Specialization in stamp varieties has been constantly on the increase since the origin of the postage stamp. Even stamps today which are not plated or examined for varieties, may be the plating and specialization goal of philatelists of the future.

Keep it all, I say, for the future of philately.

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copy55555
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16 Nov 2017
11:04:58am
re: To Selvedge or not to Selvedge..

Many of recent Canadian stamps were issued both in sheet and in souvenir sheet formats in the same colors and perforations. The only way to differentiate between the two would be the attached selvage.

In order to add some interest to collecting recent used Canadian issues, I try to obtain examples of each variety. Seems that most people tear away the selvage before using the stamp and as a result used examples are a challenge to locate. This would also apply to singles from a press sheet.

Examples would be the 4 stamps of the 2006 Duck Decoys issue. They were issued in a se-tenant sheet of 16 and in a souvenir sheet of 4. The perfs of both are 13.1 x 12.5. There may be some microscopic differences beyond my capabilities to detect so copies with selvage attached would do the trick.

Tad


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parkinlot
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Immediate Past President - West Essex Philatelic Society www.wepsonline.org

16 Nov 2017
01:31:42pm
re: To Selvedge or not to Selvedge..

I'm posting this again from a previous discussion back in January...

There have been several discussion on this board relating to selvedge. I am cutting and pasting a response that I posted on 7/12/2011 with a few modifications. The link I provided is no longer valid so I am providing some new links...

Blank selvedge can help tell you about the perforation method used for certain issues.

Line Perforations (L) are created by perforating the sheets in one direction then turning the sheet 90 degrees and perforating in the other direction. This causes the perforations to overlap where stamps & selvedge connect. The perforations go to the end of the selvedge. Stamps with comb perforations (Bulls-eye) have at least three sides perforated at one time. There is no overlap where the stamps or selvedge connect. The perforations only partially perforate the selvedge.

One stamp that comes to mind is Scott 1596 which is normally comb perforated and is worth only a few cents.

If you go to this link you will readily see why it would be easier to tell the difference between the stamps if you have the selvedge still attached especially for singles.
http://www.apnss.org/Americana.htm

Scroll down the the 13 Cent Eagle & Shield Stamp. Notice the perforations on 1596d go to the end of the sheet. 1596 only has 1 perforation in the selvedge and the selvedge must be torn to separate fully.


Here is a link to an auction house of a Block of 4 of 1596d showing the overlapping perfs.

http://db.kelleherauctions.com/php/lot_auc.php?site=1&sale=681&lot=2025&lang=1

The Bulls-eye Plate Block of 12 has a 2017 SCV of $3.50. The Line Perf plate block of 12 has an SCV of $350.

If there is no selevedge on this stamp you can always measure the perfs. 11.2 for 1596 and 11 for 1596d.

Bob

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cdj1122
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Silence in the face of adversity is the father of complicity and collusion, the first cousins of conspiracy..

02 Dec 2017
02:47:00am
re: To Selvedge or not to Selvedge..

Since I read about the value and use of selvage, I've been saving them in a glassine to sen to someone.

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".... You may think you understood what you thought I said, but I'm not sure you realize that what you think you heard is not what I thought I meant. .... "
        

 

Author/Postings
skitownteacher

09 Aug 2017
02:01:40pm

Two beginner questions wrapped into one:

I'm trying to get a straight answer on whether or not to retail selvedge portions of individual stamps. My question pertains both to used and mint stamps if there is any difference.

I understand the basic idea of the selvedge being useful in identifying the location of a stamp on it's sheet, but If I'm being honest, the collection that I am building with my son is for the joy of collecting rather than potential future value.

With used stamps I usually keep the selvedge if it is interesting or doesn't get in the way of other stamps in the album, but some I feel I could remove.

Mint stamps, I've been folding the selvedge prior to putting it in the sleeve, but this gets quite bulky sometimes.

I know this is likely a matter of personal preference, but I'm curious if there are any circumstances where I should be ABSOLUTELY keeping the selvedge on the stamp...I imagine what I do from there boils down to my own personal preference.

Thanks in advance for the advice that I'm sure I'll receive.

Andrew

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this post
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amsd

Editor, Seal News; contributor, JuicyHeads
09 Aug 2017
02:20:42pm

re: To Selvedge or not to Selvedge..

Andrew

Your namesake is on the DL in Cleveland. Pity.

for a newby, you managed to answer your question quite effectively. I'll add my own perspective.

Selvedge does lots of things: IDs the position of the stamp on the sheet or pane. In some cases, the PB makes identifying the stamp easier. Several members make positive IDs of difficutl to ID WF stamps via the PB number.

In some cases, selvedge contains auxilliary printing that provides history, such as Mr ZIP in all his guises, or bio on Hubert Humphrey.

In all cases, it makes the stamp rarer by distinguishing it from all its other brethern that are otherwise indistinguishable.

I seldom sever selvedge; and folding it over will stress the paper, making the decision unnecessary.

In short, in almost all cases, I save the selvedge. In most cases, it will not add to the value, and for many, it will detract from the appearance. But, as you said, it's my stamp in my album.

David

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upsguy62

09 Aug 2017
04:31:38pm

re: To Selvedge or not to Selvedge..

Andrew

David made a lot of good points. And he is correct, you did do a good job of answering your own questions. To me, it boils down to this...move where the spirit takes you. If you like the selvedge, keep it. If not, remove it. There are as many reasons to collect a stamp as there are grains of sand on the beach. The most important thing is that you are spending time with your son and introducing him to this wonderful hobby. Make your collection your own and enjoy it!

Like
Login to Like
this post
Members Picture
51Studebaker

Dialysis, damned if you do...dead if you don't
09 Aug 2017
04:44:24pm

re: To Selvedge or not to Selvedge..

Agreed. But I might add...have you considered letting your son make this decision? Might be a good learning opportunity and life skills lesson.
Don

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Ningpo

09 Aug 2017
05:47:08pm

re: To Selvedge or not to Selvedge..

"but I'm curious if there are any circumstances where I should be ABSOLUTELY keeping the selvedge on the stamp.."



It does depend on how common the material is BUT (and I know this an extreme example):



SG Catalogue value: £1,300 (normal, without selvedge)

Image Not Found


Sold on eBay, December 2013: £4,394
.


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this post
Members Picture
BenFranklin1902

Tom in Exton, PA
09 Aug 2017
07:37:41pm

re: To Selvedge or not to Selvedge..

As said, it's a personal decision. In most cases stamps are cheap enough that it doesn't matter value wise. Like David, I do not sever selvage. In fact if I'm choosing a stamp for my collection and one has selvage, that's the one I choose just because it's distinguishable from the 50 million of the same issue that don't have it. In fact, I have always liked the corner selvage and have collected all four corners on a bunch of issues.

Image Not Found

Here's one of my album pages, and look at the single I chose for the collection. It has selvage and also has the postal clerk's notation that this was the top sheet of a stack of 100 sheets. I found that unique and wanted it over the other 50 copies I own.

Image Not Found

And note the examples I've chosen for this stamp issue. The single has bottom selvage. The first day cover has a pair with the corner selvage. Find another one of these!

So that's my take on the subject.

Like 
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like this post.
Login to Like.

"Check out my eBay Stuff! Username Turtles-Trading-Post"
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keesindy

01 Nov 2017
10:59:42am

re: To Selvedge or not to Selvedge..

Image Not Found

Stamp collectors are a creative bunch and selvage apparently has uses beyond those we commonly think about.

Like 
3 Members
like this post.
Login to Like.

"I no longer collect, but will never abandon the hobby"
Members Picture
keesindy

15 Nov 2017
05:48:33pm

re: To Selvedge or not to Selvedge..

Continuing with the selvage topic, I think this is an interesting item from South Africa, Scott #49 and SG #56 (or 56i?). Scott lists it at minimum value, but it has a very clear and nicely centered selvage watermark that may be of interest to someone here at SoR with a special interest in selvage and/or watermarks. PM me with a mailing address if you have such an interest and want this.

Tom

Image Not Found

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1 Member
likes this post.
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"I no longer collect, but will never abandon the hobby"
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smauggie

15 Nov 2017
09:52:59pm

re: To Selvedge or not to Selvedge..

Consider this: Regarding plating or detecting varieties in stamps it is often helpful to determine the location of the stamp in the pane or sheet. Selvage helps to identify the location of the stamp.

Also consider: Specialization in stamp varieties has been constantly on the increase since the origin of the postage stamp. Even stamps today which are not plated or examined for varieties, may be the plating and specialization goal of philatelists of the future.

Keep it all, I say, for the future of philately.

Like
Login to Like
this post
Members Picture
copy55555

16 Nov 2017
11:04:58am

re: To Selvedge or not to Selvedge..

Many of recent Canadian stamps were issued both in sheet and in souvenir sheet formats in the same colors and perforations. The only way to differentiate between the two would be the attached selvage.

In order to add some interest to collecting recent used Canadian issues, I try to obtain examples of each variety. Seems that most people tear away the selvage before using the stamp and as a result used examples are a challenge to locate. This would also apply to singles from a press sheet.

Examples would be the 4 stamps of the 2006 Duck Decoys issue. They were issued in a se-tenant sheet of 16 and in a souvenir sheet of 4. The perfs of both are 13.1 x 12.5. There may be some microscopic differences beyond my capabilities to detect so copies with selvage attached would do the trick.

Tad


Like 
1 Member
likes this post.
Login to Like.

Immediate Past President - West Essex Philatelic Society www.wepsonline.org
16 Nov 2017
01:31:42pm

re: To Selvedge or not to Selvedge..

I'm posting this again from a previous discussion back in January...

There have been several discussion on this board relating to selvedge. I am cutting and pasting a response that I posted on 7/12/2011 with a few modifications. The link I provided is no longer valid so I am providing some new links...

Blank selvedge can help tell you about the perforation method used for certain issues.

Line Perforations (L) are created by perforating the sheets in one direction then turning the sheet 90 degrees and perforating in the other direction. This causes the perforations to overlap where stamps & selvedge connect. The perforations go to the end of the selvedge. Stamps with comb perforations (Bulls-eye) have at least three sides perforated at one time. There is no overlap where the stamps or selvedge connect. The perforations only partially perforate the selvedge.

One stamp that comes to mind is Scott 1596 which is normally comb perforated and is worth only a few cents.

If you go to this link you will readily see why it would be easier to tell the difference between the stamps if you have the selvedge still attached especially for singles.
http://www.apnss.org/Americana.htm

Scroll down the the 13 Cent Eagle & Shield Stamp. Notice the perforations on 1596d go to the end of the sheet. 1596 only has 1 perforation in the selvedge and the selvedge must be torn to separate fully.


Here is a link to an auction house of a Block of 4 of 1596d showing the overlapping perfs.

http://db.kelleherauctions.com/php/lot_auc.php?site=1&sale=681&lot=2025&lang=1

The Bulls-eye Plate Block of 12 has a 2017 SCV of $3.50. The Line Perf plate block of 12 has an SCV of $350.

If there is no selevedge on this stamp you can always measure the perfs. 11.2 for 1596 and 11 for 1596d.

Bob

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"APS - AFDCS - GBCC - USSS - SCC - IPDA"

www.hipstamp.com/sto ...

Silence in the face of adversity is the father of complicity and collusion, the first cousins of conspiracy..
02 Dec 2017
02:47:00am

re: To Selvedge or not to Selvedge..

Since I read about the value and use of selvage, I've been saving them in a glassine to sen to someone.

Like
Login to Like
this post

".... You may think you understood what you thought I said, but I'm not sure you realize that what you think you heard is not what I thought I meant. .... "
        

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