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Europe/Great Britain : Machin phosphor queries.

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malcolm197
11 Jul 2017
10:26:43am
I am submitting here as I don't mind making a fool of myself among friends whereas a specialist Machin board is a bit frightening.

Query 1. Pre-decimal 1/6 2 tone blue - 2 band non-screened value.

I have a copy of this where the phosphor bands appear to be very thick and are clearly visible to the naked eye without tilting the stamp obliquely ( the standard method to see bands ). Superficially similar to "phosphor-under-ink" varieties of the 7p and 9p decimals.If it is any help the Queen's head appears to be a lighter colour than normal,although I do know that these 2-colour Machins vary somewhat.

Query 2 Decimal 10p original colour Orange and Brown 2-band.

Similar to query 1 except that stamp is completely inert under short wave lamp.

Both stamps are used and off-paper. Although I have only seen a small number of these values these particular examples are totally different to others in my collection. There is nothing in the Connoisseur catalogue or on the Adminware site and no footnote for the 10p in SG specialised.

Do any of the Machin experts here have any inkling of what is going on with these stamps? Otherwise I will have to take my courage in both hands and risk ritual humiliation elsewhere.

Malcolm
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michael78651
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SOR Auctioneer
11 Jul 2017
10:45:32am
re: Machin phosphor queries.

We have Charlie, our resident Machin expert. I wouldn't have any qualms posting questions about Machins on this site.

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TuskenRaider
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11 Jul 2017
06:09:20pm
re: Machin phosphor queries.

Hi Everyone;

@ malcolm197

I'm have little interest in differentiating the phosphor varieties, however the pre-decimal 1'6 in two shades of blue is one I pay a lot of attention to.

If you have one with a portrait that appears lighter than the others, then look carefully at the numerals of value. If they appear white, then you have the error of the missing lighter blue shade. One sold on eBay for US$265.00+, and I found one a few years ago, and it now resides in my Scott Specialty album. Big Grin

Just sortin'....
TuskenRaider

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malcolm197
12 Jul 2017
01:16:22pm
re: Machin phosphor queries.

Regrettably not light enough !!

Malcolm

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sheepshanks
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12 Jul 2017
09:40:52pm
re: Machin phosphor queries.

Tuscan, is this what you were meaning, first stamp is as normal, others are pale with whiter value numerals.
They also have wider left bands.
Image Not Found
Nah I'm not that lucky!

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phos45
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https://machinstudygroup.blogspot.ca/
14 Jul 2017
12:32:20pm
re: Machin phosphor queries.

10p - no SW reaction is missing phosphor var
1/6p - can you provide scan ...?

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TuskenRaider
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15 Jul 2017
06:52:51pm
re: Machin phosphor queries.

Hi Sheepshanks;

The numerals of value, must be as white as the paper, with no color at all. When the lighter blue is completely missing, that is the missing color variety. The numeral of value, was only printed with the lighter of the two blues, and therefore is the best way to determine this error. When placed side-by-side with the normal stamps, the error stamp is very obvious.

Scott's catalog does list this variety, but only as a mint copy. They only show a dash for the used version. So I looked at eBay closed-sold auctions and got the $265+ number.

If more of them appear on the market, then by now the price will have dropped somewhat.

Still sortin'....
TuskenRaider

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sheepshanks
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15 Jul 2017
07:48:32pm
re: Machin phosphor queries.

Hi Tusken, here are a couple of the images starting with the normal and then a couple of the other ones. 1/6 on the last two appears to be as white as the margin paper.
What think you, or anyone else?
Image Not Found
Image Not Found
Image Not Found
Image Not Found

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malcolm197
16 Jul 2017
03:25:21pm
re: Machin phosphor queries.

The 10p has bands visible to the naked eye - just not reacting. Does this mean that a phosphor solution minus the phosphor was applied ? I would have thought that missing phosphor meant that there was no visible bands at all ?

As for the 1/6 I am now pretty sure that this is a 150 rather than 250 phosphor screen which actually makes it appear "thicker"-the screening looks "hatched" rather than smooth producing the "thick" effect.

I have seen a similar effect on a number of decimal issues but for some reason it didn't register with me.

Thanks for your assistance.

Malcolm

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phos45
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16 Jul 2017
07:30:49pm
re: Machin phosphor queries.

the ink mix can be faulty ... I call these ghost phosphors ... only varnish/no phosphor

a dry print.

phosphor cyl normally delivers 3 components - the varnish, the phosphor and flourescent marker

test 10p under LW uv to see if flourescent

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TuskenRaider
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17 Jul 2017
02:02:58am
re: Machin phosphor queries.

Hi sheepshanks;

The bottom three stamps appear to be color missing errors. You should sell them quietly one-by-one, so as to not reduce the value of my find, and to improve the hammer price of yours. Or better yet, sell them on here, and mums the word.

Just sortin'....
TuskenRaider

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cdj1122
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Silence in the face of adversity is the father of complicity and collusion, the first cousins of conspiracy..
18 Jul 2017
03:56:18pm
re: Machin phosphor queries.

Sometime after the pre-decimals were issued there was a caution about the effect of warm water, or perchance "hot," on the chemical used to create phosphor bands. Also the 150 screens started with "Shades" when new and there were some with turquoise missing.
These things make for some interesting minor variations of PD13.1.1, (shades); 1a,(screened}; 1b,(phosphor missing); & 1c (Turquoise ommitted).


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sheepshanks
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04 Mar 2018
03:47:10pm
re: Machin phosphor queries.

Found this one while sorting some Machins. Observations and comments welcome.
It is Photo, SG X841 with two phosphor bands. However the left band is only about 2mm wide whereas the right band is about 8mm, ie two perf tips for left and 4 for right, including the corner perf.
I do not have a Deegam disc or catalogue and assume this is just a minor variety.
Image Not Found
Sorry unable to take image with UV light.
On a separate note does the Deegam disc have coloured images of the stamps or are they greyscale. It does not seem apparent from the website, although they mention it is in colour but that could just mean headings etc.

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phos45
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05 Mar 2018
08:56:41am
re: Machin phosphor queries.

coils are source of many 1/2p broad bands

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cdj1122
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Silence in the face of adversity is the father of complicity and collusion, the first cousins of conspiracy..
05 Mar 2018
10:48:23am
re: Machin phosphor queries.

The bands are originally centered on the Perforations
so that half will be on each adjacent stamp.
During the printing process, the phosphor is often so offset
that one side gets more than the other creating
what is called a WBL or WBR. (Wide)
If the misprint is wide enough the bands will be
all or almost all on one the individual stamps,
which then becomes a "Broad band" which can be
BBL or BBR.
Or if completely on the indifidual stamps clear of th perfs,
BBC or simply a Broad Band.
If the stamp was intended to only have a left or right band,
the band will be half as wide, to the point where
adjacent stamps could have a single 4mm band
in the center of one stamp and comletely missing on its partner.
These, technically misprints,
can occur on any of the phosphor banded stamps,
and make interesting varients.
For phosphor barred stamps the missplacing
can also be up or down as well,
and the DEEGAM offers a table so that
they can be annotated when being described.

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sheepshanks
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05 Mar 2018
11:16:45am
re: Machin phosphor queries.

Thanks Charlie and Phos, guess it's a keeper, will save with details annotated.
Does the Deegam cd have coloured illustrations of each basic stamp and are the colours farly accurate/true?

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cdj1122
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Silence in the face of adversity is the father of complicity and collusion, the first cousins of conspiracy..
05 Mar 2018
01:19:59pm
re: Machin phosphor queries.

Yes, each basic stamp is in color,
and the proper color announed by
Royal mail at time of issunce is listed.

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sheepshanks
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05 Mar 2018
01:56:18pm
re: Machin phosphor queries.

Thanks Charlie, just was not clear from the website and images of pages posted on web did not seem to be in colour.
Will have to invest in a disc this year, it's the short arms and long pockets problem. Which with the sale of some land will hopefully go away next month.

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malcolm197
16 Mar 2018
08:21:45am
re: Machin phosphor queries.

Thanks for the replies to my original questions. The problem with used stamps is that so much can happen to them before reaching the collector. I have a load of anomalies, but I don't normally bother to investigate them unless I have 2 apparently identical ones, as it is fair assumption that one offs are a result of an incident ( or even accident ).Delay to my reply as a result of 3 weeks on the island of Madeira !

Malcolm

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phos45
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https://machinstudygroup.blogspot.ca/
16 Mar 2018
05:44:41pm
re: Machin phosphor queries.

vars can be captured under Lw lamp using the icard camera...

https://www.ebay.ca/itm/Coin-Stamp-Camera-Photograph-Catalog-with-Coin-Stamp-Databases-Included/173034962629?_trkparms=aid%3D222007%26algo%3DSIM.MBE%26ao%3D2%26asc%3D20170831090034%26meid%3D1aec3f9dbec2468e9b6c7db9e388a93b%26pid%3D100005%26rk%3D1%26rkt%3D1%26sd%3D173001700924&_trksid=p2047675.c100005.m1851

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