Discussion - Member to Member Sales - Research Center
Discussion - Member to Member Sales - Research Center
Any comments/help? TIA
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People can ask whatever they want for something and many are looking for that "sucker of the day".
Other than that I don't know how to comment on something I cannot see. If you want input you should post the URL to the auction.
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Bill Langs often has very, very high asking prices. On the upside, he is also always open to offers, sometimes at much more realistic prices.
And while I support buying the best quality stamps you can find, supporting grading is something that I refrain from doing.
Don
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The grading craze has at least slowed a bit - none too soon. Let's take the 421 as an example - 2012 Scott Classic Specialized is $850 VFNH. But if I look at my 2008 Scott "Valuing" Supplement I find it listed at $1000 VFNH. Have one that grades 96 points and it jumps to $7000. How about 98 points - a whopping $17,000.
If that isn't crazy enough how about the ever ubiquitous C23. VFNH it's a 50 cent stamp. But if you have one that grades 98 points it is listed at $190.
Heady stuff but rapidly disappearing and sanity will again prevail. Poke around Hipstamp or Ebay and see 100 point common 3 cent commemoratives in three figures with the very next stamp looking like it has better centering for 15 cents.....
The fad was purely investor driven -
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First, I was not asking ARa to price a stamp he's not seen. He knows that. I think my question posted today was reasonable. I think it fair to speculate about dealers and their listings. "Gorgeous" and grading and all that. Is not this Bill Lang(?) fair game? It is apparent he is well known but not to me. I have already learned one thing Bill Lang does post these stamps priced rather high some times. But, then, what about the same dealer with his great positive feedback. Someone likes him!
It matters to the semi-skilled like me, at least knowing a bit more is always helpful. I, too, wonder about the grading thing and find it probably not helpful since I, as a collector, can look at a stamp and tell if it what I want. As an investment stamps have not done well, but I see $7500 for the #421 so I asked the board.
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They are just shopping for the one buyer who will pay it. Some people have money and just want to spend it and not that particular.
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reasonable questions, although broadly asked, so any of us might focus on one of many aspects of the query.
I too think the grading experiment is mostly over. it has its fans, and they're welcome to it.
I would never in a million years get a second expertization on a stamp whose authenticity is not in question
and i'd never pay what's being asked, even if i didn't prefer used or on cover examples to mint ones.
for most of us, listing on eBay is free; it's the selling where the fees exist, so putting this up is no cost to Bill
i think that covers the bases, no?
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I received the latest issue of Linn's Stamp News today and read that at a recent Siegel auction an 8-cent Washington/Franklin stamp (Scott 380) that was graded "gem-100 jumbo" sold for $15,930. The current Scott value for MNH-XF is $233.64.
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Some people are willing to pay for supposed "perfection".
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I have had many issues with the grading system ever since it was created. Nubbed perfs, short perfs, pulled perfs, off-center (even if slightly), thins and such have been indicated on some of those certificates and still the stamps have been graded super high, because they were better than the last one that was graded. A damaged stamp is not a "gem", nor is it a 90, or even an 80. I have stamps that are in better condition than some that IO have seen being offered for sale with perfection grades.
As it has been said for years, the grading system was just a scheme created by a few people to get rich off the perception of "quality", "perfection", and yes, even greed of others.
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The current speculative frenzy for stamp grading reminds me of the Tulipomania of 1637.
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Good gracious!
I love the title of a book mentioned in the article:
"Extraordinary Popular Delusions and the Madness of Crowds"
So perfect!
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I am sure the buyer of the $15K stamp does not miss the money..that is how much money they have.
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Some people collect stamps, some people collect numbers, some people "invest" (or speculate, depending on your perspective). Sometimes it's a blurry line of distinction. I'm definitely not into numerically graded stamps, but to each his/her own...
Collect the way you want so you can enjoy your collection.
I think I have about 2 numerically graded certificates. But that's only because the number-graded stamp was being sold at the same (or lower) cost of the equivalent ungraded stamp. In other words, I didn't pay anything extra for stamp having a number-graded certificate. Of course, these were graded less than 95. But in the case of my purchase, the only benefit the seller obtained from having the certificate was that I chose the certificate stamp over the equivalent stamp without certificate. I can see the added value of expertization to weed out altered/forged stamp and there would certainly be cases where I would pay extra for an expertized stamp. But adding numerical grading to a certificate won't prod me to dish out more money.
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I agree 100% with that comment!
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I have bought stamps from "Bill" but decided not anymore. I don't like his trolling for suckers even if he does not catch me.. It is not to our benefit and, after all it is just a hobby, and friendly nice folks here might avoid this dealer.
As for grading, major, major agreement. How many times have you looked a nice stamp and said, nice and VF or VF/XF, but not "gorgeous, world class, gem", so it goes. Tulip Mania maybe. I also remember the South Sea Bubble,not exactly the same. Its time to avoid these dealers that chronically offer wildly priced stamps....betting on the come I guess.
Let me add, I have some really nice stamps but I do not obsess over the back of the stamp (I can't see it)!
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"Some people are willing to pay for supposed "perfection"."
My wife did so 22 years go.
But as of today...
The face is a bit faded, most of the watermarks are found in the bed-sheets, the gums have imperfections, the mounting is occasionally wobbly and... {FAKE-EDITOR'S NOTE: GOT IT, SO STOP IT ALREADY LEMAVEN!!!}.
Dave.
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06:28:05pm
" ... The current speculative frenzy for stamp grading reminds me of the Tulipomania of 1637 ..."
Oh yes, 1637, what a year. storms raged down the channel one after another and the Herring crop was a disaster. But the great party they threw when Frederick the Third took his place in history was the event of the social season. And then the appalling news from Scotland of the infamous sheep flu that decimated herds of the furry creature pricing innards out of reach. Yes,1637 was a regular annus horribilus..
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No comment needed on this recent eBay "offer":
But I will say that I have dozens of these stamps in mint and used singles, multiples, and on cover (both philatelic and postally used), not because it's a wonderful stamp (although I do like the art deco design, but because it was issued on the day I was born. And I know that a single used copy ain't worth nowhere near C $26.49!
Bob
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05:20:00pm
Thankfully I have a really nice used copy of the Franklin stamp in question - I'm very happy with that. I think I paid about $10 for it a year or so ago. Why do some people want perfection, my wife sure didn't!!!
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05:51:05pm
On another point - check out the shipping costs for the two E-Bay items 2 posts above this one! Does anyone else find these totally insulting? I know it's not totally the sellers fault since E-Bay sets the default shipping price, but it can be changed by the seller. I hope we all refuse to pay shipping costs that are totally out of line, no matter how much we want the item. I don't even try to get in touch with the seller, I just say the "Hell with it"!
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Shipping costs. Yeah. I often buy books from the Advanced Book Exchange. Books coming from the U.K. rarely cost more than US $5 for shipping and sometimes shipping is free, even for a book costing only $3.00. And I do refuse to buy stamps and covers offered on eBay that include exorbitant shipping costs.
Bob
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03:03:03pm
This busy dealer (with 100% positive feedback on EBay) is asking $7500 for a #421 50 cent Franklin OG NH XF-superb. He shows a certificate grading the stamp XF. My eye also has the 421 as XF. I am an amateur at best, but it is not that close to superb. Am I missing something? I occasionally see stamps for sale at very high prices hardly justified by the stamp itself.
Any comments/help? TIA
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re: EBay dealer asking $7500 for a Franklin/URL/WORLD CLASS///Antonio
People can ask whatever they want for something and many are looking for that "sucker of the day".
Other than that I don't know how to comment on something I cannot see. If you want input you should post the URL to the auction.
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re: EBay dealer asking $7500 for a Franklin/URL/WORLD CLASS///Antonio
Bill Langs often has very, very high asking prices. On the upside, he is also always open to offers, sometimes at much more realistic prices.
And while I support buying the best quality stamps you can find, supporting grading is something that I refrain from doing.
Don
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03:32:07pm
re: EBay dealer asking $7500 for a Franklin/URL/WORLD CLASS///Antonio
My question was (obviously I thought) was more general. Anyway, a link:
US 421
(Modified by Moderator on 2017-06-06 18:28:59)
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04:04:14pm
re: EBay dealer asking $7500 for a Franklin/URL/WORLD CLASS///Antonio
The grading craze has at least slowed a bit - none too soon. Let's take the 421 as an example - 2012 Scott Classic Specialized is $850 VFNH. But if I look at my 2008 Scott "Valuing" Supplement I find it listed at $1000 VFNH. Have one that grades 96 points and it jumps to $7000. How about 98 points - a whopping $17,000.
If that isn't crazy enough how about the ever ubiquitous C23. VFNH it's a 50 cent stamp. But if you have one that grades 98 points it is listed at $190.
Heady stuff but rapidly disappearing and sanity will again prevail. Poke around Hipstamp or Ebay and see 100 point common 3 cent commemoratives in three figures with the very next stamp looking like it has better centering for 15 cents.....
The fad was purely investor driven -
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05:50:54pm
re: EBay dealer asking $7500 for a Franklin/URL/WORLD CLASS///Antonio
First, I was not asking ARa to price a stamp he's not seen. He knows that. I think my question posted today was reasonable. I think it fair to speculate about dealers and their listings. "Gorgeous" and grading and all that. Is not this Bill Lang(?) fair game? It is apparent he is well known but not to me. I have already learned one thing Bill Lang does post these stamps priced rather high some times. But, then, what about the same dealer with his great positive feedback. Someone likes him!
It matters to the semi-skilled like me, at least knowing a bit more is always helpful. I, too, wonder about the grading thing and find it probably not helpful since I, as a collector, can look at a stamp and tell if it what I want. As an investment stamps have not done well, but I see $7500 for the #421 so I asked the board.
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re: EBay dealer asking $7500 for a Franklin/URL/WORLD CLASS///Antonio
They are just shopping for the one buyer who will pay it. Some people have money and just want to spend it and not that particular.
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this post
re: EBay dealer asking $7500 for a Franklin/URL/WORLD CLASS///Antonio
reasonable questions, although broadly asked, so any of us might focus on one of many aspects of the query.
I too think the grading experiment is mostly over. it has its fans, and they're welcome to it.
I would never in a million years get a second expertization on a stamp whose authenticity is not in question
and i'd never pay what's being asked, even if i didn't prefer used or on cover examples to mint ones.
for most of us, listing on eBay is free; it's the selling where the fees exist, so putting this up is no cost to Bill
i think that covers the bases, no?
Login to Like
this post
re: EBay dealer asking $7500 for a Franklin/URL/WORLD CLASS///Antonio
I received the latest issue of Linn's Stamp News today and read that at a recent Siegel auction an 8-cent Washington/Franklin stamp (Scott 380) that was graded "gem-100 jumbo" sold for $15,930. The current Scott value for MNH-XF is $233.64.
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this post
01:40:48pm
re: EBay dealer asking $7500 for a Franklin/URL/WORLD CLASS///Antonio
Some people are willing to pay for supposed "perfection".
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this post
02:24:59pm
re: EBay dealer asking $7500 for a Franklin/URL/WORLD CLASS///Antonio
I have had many issues with the grading system ever since it was created. Nubbed perfs, short perfs, pulled perfs, off-center (even if slightly), thins and such have been indicated on some of those certificates and still the stamps have been graded super high, because they were better than the last one that was graded. A damaged stamp is not a "gem", nor is it a 90, or even an 80. I have stamps that are in better condition than some that IO have seen being offered for sale with perfection grades.
As it has been said for years, the grading system was just a scheme created by a few people to get rich off the perception of "quality", "perfection", and yes, even greed of others.
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this post
re: EBay dealer asking $7500 for a Franklin/URL/WORLD CLASS///Antonio
The current speculative frenzy for stamp grading reminds me of the Tulipomania of 1637.
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04:00:04pm
re: EBay dealer asking $7500 for a Franklin/URL/WORLD CLASS///Antonio
Good gracious!
I love the title of a book mentioned in the article:
"Extraordinary Popular Delusions and the Madness of Crowds"
So perfect!
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re: EBay dealer asking $7500 for a Franklin/URL/WORLD CLASS///Antonio
I am sure the buyer of the $15K stamp does not miss the money..that is how much money they have.
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re: EBay dealer asking $7500 for a Franklin/URL/WORLD CLASS///Antonio
Some people collect stamps, some people collect numbers, some people "invest" (or speculate, depending on your perspective). Sometimes it's a blurry line of distinction. I'm definitely not into numerically graded stamps, but to each his/her own...
Collect the way you want so you can enjoy your collection.
I think I have about 2 numerically graded certificates. But that's only because the number-graded stamp was being sold at the same (or lower) cost of the equivalent ungraded stamp. In other words, I didn't pay anything extra for stamp having a number-graded certificate. Of course, these were graded less than 95. But in the case of my purchase, the only benefit the seller obtained from having the certificate was that I chose the certificate stamp over the equivalent stamp without certificate. I can see the added value of expertization to weed out altered/forged stamp and there would certainly be cases where I would pay extra for an expertized stamp. But adding numerical grading to a certificate won't prod me to dish out more money.
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11:37:09pm
re: EBay dealer asking $7500 for a Franklin/URL/WORLD CLASS///Antonio
I agree 100% with that comment!
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08:57:50pm
re: EBay dealer asking $7500 for a Franklin/URL/WORLD CLASS///Antonio
I have bought stamps from "Bill" but decided not anymore. I don't like his trolling for suckers even if he does not catch me.. It is not to our benefit and, after all it is just a hobby, and friendly nice folks here might avoid this dealer.
As for grading, major, major agreement. How many times have you looked a nice stamp and said, nice and VF or VF/XF, but not "gorgeous, world class, gem", so it goes. Tulip Mania maybe. I also remember the South Sea Bubble,not exactly the same. Its time to avoid these dealers that chronically offer wildly priced stamps....betting on the come I guess.
Let me add, I have some really nice stamps but I do not obsess over the back of the stamp (I can't see it)!
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re: EBay dealer asking $7500 for a Franklin/URL/WORLD CLASS///Antonio
"Some people are willing to pay for supposed "perfection"."
My wife did so 22 years go.
But as of today...
The face is a bit faded, most of the watermarks are found in the bed-sheets, the gums have imperfections, the mounting is occasionally wobbly and... {FAKE-EDITOR'S NOTE: GOT IT, SO STOP IT ALREADY LEMAVEN!!!}.
Dave.
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Silence in the face of adversity is the father of complicity and collusion, the first cousins of conspiracy..
13 Jun 2017
06:28:05pm
re: EBay dealer asking $7500 for a Franklin/URL/WORLD CLASS///Antonio
" ... The current speculative frenzy for stamp grading reminds me of the Tulipomania of 1637 ..."
Oh yes, 1637, what a year. storms raged down the channel one after another and the Herring crop was a disaster. But the great party they threw when Frederick the Third took his place in history was the event of the social season. And then the appalling news from Scotland of the infamous sheep flu that decimated herds of the furry creature pricing innards out of reach. Yes,1637 was a regular annus horribilus..
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re: EBay dealer asking $7500 for a Franklin/URL/WORLD CLASS///Antonio
No comment needed on this recent eBay "offer":
But I will say that I have dozens of these stamps in mint and used singles, multiples, and on cover (both philatelic and postally used), not because it's a wonderful stamp (although I do like the art deco design, but because it was issued on the day I was born. And I know that a single used copy ain't worth nowhere near C $26.49!
Bob
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This is my diabetic cat OBI! I think, therefore I am - I think! Descartes, sort of!
05 Oct 2019
05:20:00pm
re: EBay dealer asking $7500 for a Franklin/URL/WORLD CLASS///Antonio
Thankfully I have a really nice used copy of the Franklin stamp in question - I'm very happy with that. I think I paid about $10 for it a year or so ago. Why do some people want perfection, my wife sure didn't!!!
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This is my diabetic cat OBI! I think, therefore I am - I think! Descartes, sort of!
05 Oct 2019
05:51:05pm
re: EBay dealer asking $7500 for a Franklin/URL/WORLD CLASS///Antonio
On another point - check out the shipping costs for the two E-Bay items 2 posts above this one! Does anyone else find these totally insulting? I know it's not totally the sellers fault since E-Bay sets the default shipping price, but it can be changed by the seller. I hope we all refuse to pay shipping costs that are totally out of line, no matter how much we want the item. I don't even try to get in touch with the seller, I just say the "Hell with it"!
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re: EBay dealer asking $7500 for a Franklin/URL/WORLD CLASS///Antonio
Shipping costs. Yeah. I often buy books from the Advanced Book Exchange. Books coming from the U.K. rarely cost more than US $5 for shipping and sometimes shipping is free, even for a book costing only $3.00. And I do refuse to buy stamps and covers offered on eBay that include exorbitant shipping costs.
Bob
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