Discussion - Member to Member Sales - Research Center
Discussion - Member to Member Sales - Research Center
If the Stamp Auction I attended last night is anything to go by it surely isn't!!
The hammer prices were way above estimate.
For example there was 5 individual lots of Bankers Boxes with about 9-10 albums /stockbooks in each( 2 or 3 of the books were empty). There was nothing fantastic in any of them but I reckoned they would sell for about £40 each. The estimate was for £30 each.
Total estimate therefore was 5 x £30 = £150
Hammer price £495!!!!
There were other items with estimates of £100 that sold for £360 and items at £50 sold for £240.
The Auction is well established and the person who owns the business has a very good knowledge of stamps and their value.
Who says Philately is dead!!!
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I think that the articles about the demise of various hobbies (for me it is stamps and model railroading) are written by old farts who are high in the chain of dealing/working in their respective hobbies as dealers and/or organization administrators. In their closed environments, they see the brick and mortar stores closing and memberships in the national and local organizations dropping, and they continue to whine ad nausea about the end of all hobbies.
But, do many of those people do what the rest of those in the hobby are doing? By that I mean using the internet to communicate with fellow hobbyists, or changing the methods that have been used for centuries to sell? Many don't. Some do. Those who have changed with the times are doing fine. The others are obsolete and are vanishing like the Dodo.
The American Philatelic Society has a website open to anyone who wants to poke around. No need to be a member. Last year, the APS finally let non-members purchase stamps from the APS online stamp store. Still there is no forum for members to discuss the hobby.
The National Model Railroad Association has a web site similar in many regards to the APS site. Again, however, there is no forum for members to discuss the hobby.
Model Railroader magazine (Kalmbach Publishing) has a web site, but it has a forum for model railroaders to discuss the hobby. I'm sure they keep an eye on the discussions there to help drive what articles they publish in the magazine each month.
Interesting that APS officers go to other sites to discuss the hobby, but don't provide a forum on their own site. What better way to stay in touch with your members by having a place for them to go? Same with the NMRA. Maybe if they did the old farts would know what actually is going on in the hobbies that they are supposed to be representing, but are now often out of touch from today by being stuck in their yesterday.
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It is my understanding that they intentionally have decided not to get involved in discussion groups. If it was not for the insurance, I am not sure I would be a member now.
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What I have seen in the past with various organisations/committees is that 1 or 2 or 3 individuals make the policy and everybody else just "goes along" with their decisions for a "quiet life".
OR
A "new member/members" think they can "do" things better, are quite forceful in their views, and everybody else just "goes along" with their decisions for a "quiet life" or worse leave the organisation.
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How many years have I been with the NMRA??? hmmm. I even looked at the NMRA site before I wrote my response to make sure. I couldn't find the forum. I also had trouble logging onto the system.
The local NMRA web site here has a forum. For a few months I was merely talking to myself. I convinced them to use it by telling them that using the forums was the best way to send notifications about meetings, operating sessions and other events like by-law changes/reviews etc., rather than sending individual emails and making phone calls, which many people said they never received.
As for the NMRA, I may be dropping out of it. This is the last month before my membership expires.
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Anglophile, if SCF is the Stamp Community site, it does have a message board section for APS. https://www.stampcommunity.org/forum.asp?FORUM_ID=55
Based on the message traffic I can see why APS would use an independent website to handle a forum. Scott English contributes regularly.
Geoff
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But APS does not tell its membership that the forum there is an APS forum. I am a member of Stamp Community, but too many there have an "uppity" attitude towards other collectors whom they deem to be of a lower knowledge than they. I don't go on that site any more, and haven't for years.
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Geoff,
I consider that just a special section for APS topics like you would for US stamps. There is nothing special. Scott English does respond to some topics. I will refrain from my other comments because there are too many apologists.
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I have opinions about each of the philatelic forums and sites but my opinion is not really important. What is important is that philatelic website owners, developers, and other staff like forum admins and moderators work together for the betterment of the hobby.
In regard to an APS forum; the window of opportunity is still open. All of the current philatelic forums are privately owned. As we all saw with the Delphi situation a few years back, a privately owned forum can be traded, sold, fall into disrepair, or even just close.
An APS owned forum could assure contributors that their posts, images, and input would remain viable for indefinite amounts of time. Archiving and retaining forum content is one area where APS could offer something important that the rest of our forums cannot.
And of course forums, with their constantly changing content, can deliver a lot of daily traffic. This is something that the APS site could certainly utilize.
Don
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My concern about the SCF (Stamp Community Family) site is that it seems vulnerable. All that has to happen is that the owner of it just decides one day to shut it down. He has shown temper in the past, complained that it costs him too much, and how disappointed he is in it compared to his companion coin forum.
This is going back a few years, but, for a while, some APS members and officers participated on an eBay stamp discussion board. eBay eventually reorganized it out of existence. (I'm oversimplifying, but that's the gist.)
Then, there was some significant discussion, including campaigning by candidates for APS elective offices (which I greatly appreciated), on the Delphi Virtual Stamp Club. That was probably the most helpful place for insight into the APS. Then it more-or-less cratered (again oversimplifying), reconstituted itself, and is a mere shadow of what it was before.
The current Stamp Community Family forum is serving adequately, in my opinion, but, as I said at the beginning on this post, still seems very vulnerable to a change of mind, a financial setback, or being hit by a bus, buy someone who is not, as far as I'm aware, a member of the APS and has no or very limited interest in philately.
I've had discussions with the APS going back to when Bob Lamb was the Executive Director. (I met with him personally about it.) I continue to strongly encourage the APS to develop its own forum. Based on my discussions with some current APS members I know personally, most members don't participate in any kind of online forum because it does not feel "safe", but an APS-sanctioned site would feel safe to them. There is an awful lot of philatelic expertise out there in that membership that does not get shared online -- enabling that communication could do wonders for growing the hobby, and even grow the APS membership as a members-only benefit.
I can't believe it would be too challenging to run. Lots of APS members, including myself, would happily volunteer to moderate it. (I know of much smaller boards that have a large group of volunteer moderators that coordinate among themselves to render an even tone to the moderation.)
The Stamp Store was a far more ambitious and technical challenge to launch and maintain. A discussion forum is far simpler, and I think it's a significant missing piece in what the APS could offer its membership in the 21st century.
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I don't see the APS starting a forum anytime soon. Just to moderate it would be a full time job. I don't speak for the APS but I think the forums that are available are sufficient. Can you imagine all the questions that would be asked and the hurt feelings if they are not answered quickly and to the satisfaction of the poster? Who would be allowed to access and permission to post? There are just too many different collecting areas that would need to be addressed.
I also don't think the APS would or should put up with all the negative posting especially if not concerned with stamps. Just my two cents.
Vince
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Jings! Crivvens! Help Ma Boab!
Surely if all the Philatelic societies/organisations/associations had forums?
Would this not lead to the loss of the need of having physical meetings/local societies. You would only physically meet fellow enthusiasts at auctions, fairs etc
Mans' greed for information and the desperate requirement of needing it NOW, not two seconds hence, but RIGHT NOW, as his or hers right, never fails to amaze me!!
It is about time that some individuals realise that THEY are not the centre of the universe!!
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Now maybe the discussion will return to auction prices ?
Yes, that is the thread title !!
I agree with the initial poster about auction prices. As far as my collecting interests are concerned, I have to pay well over the odds or just be outbid. Very frustrating for some time now.
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Ahhh,
This is a discussion about auction prices. What could have given me the idea it was about the APS and them having their own forum?
Auction prices, do you see this as a trend or do you think that auction mentioned in the original post may have been the exception and not the new rule? I haven't bought large lots like those mentioned in the original post in a long time, I just don't have the time to break them down and resell the leftovers. Maybe it was Internet/eBay sellers getting stock. I have noticed some areas of US collecting that I specialize in are going for more than what I expect.
Two more of my cents, I don't have many left!
Vince
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The Auction mentioned at the start of this thread was not an exception.
Over the last couple of years I have attended this same Auction House plus others in Edinburgh, Montrose, Dundee and Perth with similar results.
Like all auctions there are "bargains" to be found but they are getting scarcer and scarcer to find.
It really makes no difference what area/subject is up for sale, whether it is postal history, mixed lots, individual countries, or single stamps the prices are going up and up.
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...and do you think that is because collectors are more involved, or are the speculators back?
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A mixture of collectors and dealers.
BUT the dealers have to make a profit so they must have a market.
Collectors should always be able to outbid dealers.
Of course it all boils down to supply and demand!! The law of the market!!
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The Internet helps improve the demand. I do not have sent requests to get auction catalogues, etc. I just go online.
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Even though I have belonged to the APS for a long while, I am one of those, like Al, who maintains my membership for the insurance coverage. The APS stopped "speaking" to me years ago. They seem to be a fairly insular group who do more about maintaining the APS as an organization than actually doing anything to promote the hobby more broadly. I'm thinking here about the controversial Match Factory and recent library renovations as just two examples.
Perhaps with their new Executive Director and board they'll wake up and make the hobby more visible and interesting to the public at large.
David
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"Perhaps with their new Executive Director and board they'll wake up and make the hobby more visible and interesting to the public at large. "
I have met Scott English and he's very impressive. He gave a presentation of the APS plan to move forward at our local stamp club. He's got a great business background and has been a political lobbyist. It's interesting that he's not a stamp collector, and good to see that the board who hired him was more interested in the business end.
From his analysis of the APS demographics and decline, as well as his plan to promote and grow the organization, I expect to see progress.
I haven't been involved with APS so I don't know the politics, nor the issues with the headquarters and library.
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......and back to 'Auction Prices' ! 
I have been trying to improve my collection of USA Exhibition Labels and sheets and have one or two sources that I have long been using. Others appear to have found them and now I cannot win even the more common items. I also noticed an auction with a 40-item lot, many of which appear to already be in my collection, sell for over $200 !!
I need a lottery ticket.
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12:46:39pm
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I keep reading how our hobby is dying.
If the Stamp Auction I attended last night is anything to go by it surely isn't!!
The hammer prices were way above estimate.
For example there was 5 individual lots of Bankers Boxes with about 9-10 albums /stockbooks in each( 2 or 3 of the books were empty). There was nothing fantastic in any of them but I reckoned they would sell for about £40 each. The estimate was for £30 each.
Total estimate therefore was 5 x £30 = £150
Hammer price £495!!!!
There were other items with estimates of £100 that sold for £360 and items at £50 sold for £240.
The Auction is well established and the person who owns the business has a very good knowledge of stamps and their value.
Who says Philately is dead!!!
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01:02:41pm
re: Auction Prices
I think that the articles about the demise of various hobbies (for me it is stamps and model railroading) are written by old farts who are high in the chain of dealing/working in their respective hobbies as dealers and/or organization administrators. In their closed environments, they see the brick and mortar stores closing and memberships in the national and local organizations dropping, and they continue to whine ad nausea about the end of all hobbies.
But, do many of those people do what the rest of those in the hobby are doing? By that I mean using the internet to communicate with fellow hobbyists, or changing the methods that have been used for centuries to sell? Many don't. Some do. Those who have changed with the times are doing fine. The others are obsolete and are vanishing like the Dodo.
The American Philatelic Society has a website open to anyone who wants to poke around. No need to be a member. Last year, the APS finally let non-members purchase stamps from the APS online stamp store. Still there is no forum for members to discuss the hobby.
The National Model Railroad Association has a web site similar in many regards to the APS site. Again, however, there is no forum for members to discuss the hobby.
Model Railroader magazine (Kalmbach Publishing) has a web site, but it has a forum for model railroaders to discuss the hobby. I'm sure they keep an eye on the discussions there to help drive what articles they publish in the magazine each month.
Interesting that APS officers go to other sites to discuss the hobby, but don't provide a forum on their own site. What better way to stay in touch with your members by having a place for them to go? Same with the NMRA. Maybe if they did the old farts would know what actually is going on in the hobbies that they are supposed to be representing, but are now often out of touch from today by being stuck in their yesterday.
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re: Auction Prices
It is my understanding that they intentionally have decided not to get involved in discussion groups. If it was not for the insurance, I am not sure I would be a member now.
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06:45:35pm
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re: Auction Prices
What I have seen in the past with various organisations/committees is that 1 or 2 or 3 individuals make the policy and everybody else just "goes along" with their decisions for a "quiet life".
OR
A "new member/members" think they can "do" things better, are quite forceful in their views, and everybody else just "goes along" with their decisions for a "quiet life" or worse leave the organisation.
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09:40:52pm
re: Auction Prices
How many years have I been with the NMRA??? hmmm. I even looked at the NMRA site before I wrote my response to make sure. I couldn't find the forum. I also had trouble logging onto the system.
The local NMRA web site here has a forum. For a few months I was merely talking to myself. I convinced them to use it by telling them that using the forums was the best way to send notifications about meetings, operating sessions and other events like by-law changes/reviews etc., rather than sending individual emails and making phone calls, which many people said they never received.
As for the NMRA, I may be dropping out of it. This is the last month before my membership expires.
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07:15:36pm
re: Auction Prices
Anglophile, if SCF is the Stamp Community site, it does have a message board section for APS. https://www.stampcommunity.org/forum.asp?FORUM_ID=55
Based on the message traffic I can see why APS would use an independent website to handle a forum. Scott English contributes regularly.
Geoff
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11:35:45pm
re: Auction Prices
But APS does not tell its membership that the forum there is an APS forum. I am a member of Stamp Community, but too many there have an "uppity" attitude towards other collectors whom they deem to be of a lower knowledge than they. I don't go on that site any more, and haven't for years.
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re: Auction Prices
Geoff,
I consider that just a special section for APS topics like you would for US stamps. There is nothing special. Scott English does respond to some topics. I will refrain from my other comments because there are too many apologists.
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re: Auction Prices
I have opinions about each of the philatelic forums and sites but my opinion is not really important. What is important is that philatelic website owners, developers, and other staff like forum admins and moderators work together for the betterment of the hobby.
In regard to an APS forum; the window of opportunity is still open. All of the current philatelic forums are privately owned. As we all saw with the Delphi situation a few years back, a privately owned forum can be traded, sold, fall into disrepair, or even just close.
An APS owned forum could assure contributors that their posts, images, and input would remain viable for indefinite amounts of time. Archiving and retaining forum content is one area where APS could offer something important that the rest of our forums cannot.
And of course forums, with their constantly changing content, can deliver a lot of daily traffic. This is something that the APS site could certainly utilize.
Don
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re: Auction Prices
My concern about the SCF (Stamp Community Family) site is that it seems vulnerable. All that has to happen is that the owner of it just decides one day to shut it down. He has shown temper in the past, complained that it costs him too much, and how disappointed he is in it compared to his companion coin forum.
This is going back a few years, but, for a while, some APS members and officers participated on an eBay stamp discussion board. eBay eventually reorganized it out of existence. (I'm oversimplifying, but that's the gist.)
Then, there was some significant discussion, including campaigning by candidates for APS elective offices (which I greatly appreciated), on the Delphi Virtual Stamp Club. That was probably the most helpful place for insight into the APS. Then it more-or-less cratered (again oversimplifying), reconstituted itself, and is a mere shadow of what it was before.
The current Stamp Community Family forum is serving adequately, in my opinion, but, as I said at the beginning on this post, still seems very vulnerable to a change of mind, a financial setback, or being hit by a bus, buy someone who is not, as far as I'm aware, a member of the APS and has no or very limited interest in philately.
I've had discussions with the APS going back to when Bob Lamb was the Executive Director. (I met with him personally about it.) I continue to strongly encourage the APS to develop its own forum. Based on my discussions with some current APS members I know personally, most members don't participate in any kind of online forum because it does not feel "safe", but an APS-sanctioned site would feel safe to them. There is an awful lot of philatelic expertise out there in that membership that does not get shared online -- enabling that communication could do wonders for growing the hobby, and even grow the APS membership as a members-only benefit.
I can't believe it would be too challenging to run. Lots of APS members, including myself, would happily volunteer to moderate it. (I know of much smaller boards that have a large group of volunteer moderators that coordinate among themselves to render an even tone to the moderation.)
The Stamp Store was a far more ambitious and technical challenge to launch and maintain. A discussion forum is far simpler, and I think it's a significant missing piece in what the APS could offer its membership in the 21st century.
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re: Auction Prices
I don't see the APS starting a forum anytime soon. Just to moderate it would be a full time job. I don't speak for the APS but I think the forums that are available are sufficient. Can you imagine all the questions that would be asked and the hurt feelings if they are not answered quickly and to the satisfaction of the poster? Who would be allowed to access and permission to post? There are just too many different collecting areas that would need to be addressed.
I also don't think the APS would or should put up with all the negative posting especially if not concerned with stamps. Just my two cents.
Vince
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03:55:44pm
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re: Auction Prices
Jings! Crivvens! Help Ma Boab!
Surely if all the Philatelic societies/organisations/associations had forums?
Would this not lead to the loss of the need of having physical meetings/local societies. You would only physically meet fellow enthusiasts at auctions, fairs etc
Mans' greed for information and the desperate requirement of needing it NOW, not two seconds hence, but RIGHT NOW, as his or hers right, never fails to amaze me!!
It is about time that some individuals realise that THEY are not the centre of the universe!!
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re: Auction Prices
Now maybe the discussion will return to auction prices ?
Yes, that is the thread title !!
I agree with the initial poster about auction prices. As far as my collecting interests are concerned, I have to pay well over the odds or just be outbid. Very frustrating for some time now.
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re: Auction Prices
Ahhh,
This is a discussion about auction prices. What could have given me the idea it was about the APS and them having their own forum?
Auction prices, do you see this as a trend or do you think that auction mentioned in the original post may have been the exception and not the new rule? I haven't bought large lots like those mentioned in the original post in a long time, I just don't have the time to break them down and resell the leftovers. Maybe it was Internet/eBay sellers getting stock. I have noticed some areas of US collecting that I specialize in are going for more than what I expect.
Two more of my cents, I don't have many left!
Vince
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07:21:35pm
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re: Auction Prices
The Auction mentioned at the start of this thread was not an exception.
Over the last couple of years I have attended this same Auction House plus others in Edinburgh, Montrose, Dundee and Perth with similar results.
Like all auctions there are "bargains" to be found but they are getting scarcer and scarcer to find.
It really makes no difference what area/subject is up for sale, whether it is postal history, mixed lots, individual countries, or single stamps the prices are going up and up.
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08:05:15pm
re: Auction Prices
...and do you think that is because collectors are more involved, or are the speculators back?
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08:44:31pm
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re: Auction Prices
A mixture of collectors and dealers.
BUT the dealers have to make a profit so they must have a market.
Collectors should always be able to outbid dealers.
Of course it all boils down to supply and demand!! The law of the market!!
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re: Auction Prices
The Internet helps improve the demand. I do not have sent requests to get auction catalogues, etc. I just go online.
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re: Auction Prices
Even though I have belonged to the APS for a long while, I am one of those, like Al, who maintains my membership for the insurance coverage. The APS stopped "speaking" to me years ago. They seem to be a fairly insular group who do more about maintaining the APS as an organization than actually doing anything to promote the hobby more broadly. I'm thinking here about the controversial Match Factory and recent library renovations as just two examples.
Perhaps with their new Executive Director and board they'll wake up and make the hobby more visible and interesting to the public at large.
David
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re: Auction Prices
"Perhaps with their new Executive Director and board they'll wake up and make the hobby more visible and interesting to the public at large. "
I have met Scott English and he's very impressive. He gave a presentation of the APS plan to move forward at our local stamp club. He's got a great business background and has been a political lobbyist. It's interesting that he's not a stamp collector, and good to see that the board who hired him was more interested in the business end.
From his analysis of the APS demographics and decline, as well as his plan to promote and grow the organization, I expect to see progress.
I haven't been involved with APS so I don't know the politics, nor the issues with the headquarters and library.
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re: Auction Prices
......and back to 'Auction Prices' !
I have been trying to improve my collection of USA Exhibition Labels and sheets and have one or two sources that I have long been using. Others appear to have found them and now I cannot win even the more common items. I also noticed an auction with a 40-item lot, many of which appear to already be in my collection, sell for over $200 !!
I need a lottery ticket.
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