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Oceania/Australia : Very Rare 1949-1950 Coat-of-Arms Combination

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Rob1956
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Member ACCC (Australian Commonwealth Collectors Club of NSW)
12 Apr 2017
08:54:10am
All stamps are superb mint unhinged. The £1 in very thin paper is the only stamp not yet in the collection, there were no 10/- stamps in very thin paper printed; like the £2 in very thin paper, these two are very seldom seen for sale and are considered very rare.

Normal

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ACSC 268A) 1949. Commonwealth Coat of Arms. 5/-. Perforation 14½ x 14. C of A watermark. Carmine (scarce)
ACSC 269A) 1949. Commonwealth Coat of Arms. 10/-. Perforation 14½ x 14. C of A watermark. Bright Purple (scarce)
ACSC 270A) 1949. Commonwealth Coat of Arms. £1. Perforation 14½ x 14. C of A watermark. Bright Blue (scarce)
ACSC 271A) 1950. Commonwealth Coat of Arms. £2. Perforation 14½ x 14. C of A watermark. Green (scarce)

Specimen

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ACSC 269x) 1949. Commonwealth Coat of Arms. 10/-. Perforation 14½ x 14. C of A watermark. Bright Purple. SPECIMEN (scarce)
ACSC 270x) 1949. Commonwealth Coat of Arms. £1. Perforation 14½ x 14. C of A watermark. Bright Blue. SPECIMEN (scarce)
ACSC 271x) 1950. Commonwealth Coat of Arms. £2. Perforation 14½ x 14. C of A watermark. Green. SPECIMEN (scarce)

Very Thin Paper

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ACSC 268a) 1949. Commonwealth Coat of Arms. 5/-. Perforation 14½ x 14. Very thin paper (0.085mm). C of A watermark. Deep Carmine (very scarce)
ACSC 271a) 1950. Commonwealth Coat of Arms. £2. Perforation 14½ x 14. Very thin paper (0.085mm). C of A watermark. Deep Green (very rare)

Roller Flaw

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ACSC 271A) 1950. Commonwealth Coat of Arms. £2. Perforation 14½ x 14. Rollerblade flaw. C of A watermark. Green


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"Specialised Collector of Australian Pre-Decimal & Decimal Stamps"
smauggie
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12 Apr 2017
09:22:25am
re: Very Rare 1949-1950 Coat-of-Arms Combination

It seems either few people market the thin paper variety or it is quite rare. I have a pair of the five shilling used on the very thin paper. I have not found any others on thin paper as yet.

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Rob1956
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Member ACCC (Australian Commonwealth Collectors Club of NSW)
12 Apr 2017
10:07:21am
re: Very Rare 1949-1950 Coat-of-Arms Combination

Hi smauggie

Quote:

"It seems either few people market the thin paper variety or it is quite rare. I have a pair of the five shilling used on the very thin paper. I have not found any others on thin paper as yet."



You're lucky to have two of the 5/- thins, many collectors do not know they exist, I knew for a while that there were two more, but they come at a premium; the £2 cost me $1,650, the £1 will cost the same unless the value increases through time.

There are no £1 or £2 thins ever recorded being in used condition although there are some that have been hinged, the hinged stamps are worth just over $1,000 each.

The £1 deep blue and £2 deep green are listed as very rare, very few were ever printed. Odd though the 10/- bright purple stamp were never printed in thin paper.

The specialist who I buy my stamps from believe it is the same stamp he sold to a collector 16 years ago and just recently bought it back from his widow, and is the only times he has ever seen the £2 in his 30+ years as a stamp dealer.

He did have a £1 of the same paper, but it was hinged and was bought by a collector in England (I normally do not buy hinged stamps unless it was unavoidable, there is one or two floating around unhinged, I'll just have to be very, very patient until one comes along).

The Coat-of-Arms 5/-, £1 and £2 thin papers is the holy grail of these particular stamps.

Rob

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"Specialised Collector of Australian Pre-Decimal & Decimal Stamps"
keesindy
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12 Apr 2017
12:31:44pm
re: Very Rare 1949-1950 Coat-of-Arms Combination

Thanks once again for sharing, Rob. You've shared many very nice stamp designs I would not otherwise ever seen. Broadening my horizons!

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"I no longer collect, but will never abandon the hobby"
Rob1956
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Member ACCC (Australian Commonwealth Collectors Club of NSW)
12 Apr 2017
02:26:55pm
re: Very Rare 1949-1950 Coat-of-Arms Combination

Hi keesindy

Quote:

"Thanks once again for sharing, Rob. You've shared many very nice stamp designs I would not otherwise ever seen. Broadening my horizons!"


I am pleased that my presentations build interest to those who view my stamps, my collection is very specialised and I have a few very interesting stamps from the era of Queen Victoria, King George V, King George VI & Queen Elizabeth II; when it comes to King Edward VII, Australia issued only two stamps, the £1 and £2 issued only from Victoria.

Although Australia became a Federation on January 1, 1901; we were still printing and using colonial stamps until 1913 when the first Federation stamp was introduced with the design of the Kangaroo inside the Map of Australia.

Rob

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"Specialised Collector of Australian Pre-Decimal & Decimal Stamps"
Poodle_Mum
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12 Apr 2017
03:40:17pm
re: Very Rare 1949-1950 Coat-of-Arms Combination

I always love your posts with the detailed descriptions. I miss so much in the discussions because of visual subtleties and I'm grateful you always provide such detail.

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Rob1956
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Member ACCC (Australian Commonwealth Collectors Club of NSW)
12 Apr 2017
04:44:16pm
re: Very Rare 1949-1950 Coat-of-Arms Combination

Hi Poodle-Mum

Quote:

"I always love your posts with the detailed descriptions. I miss so much in the discussions because of visual subtleties and I'm grateful you always provide such detail."



That is the best compliment I have ever received, thank you. I always liked giving a brief history of the stamps I have, there are collectors that have never seen these stamps in complete sets, let alone the rare and very rare issues.

Giving a brief history and catalogue information concerning each stamp gives each stamp life (as I like to call it); and the evidence of the importance of the brief history is in your compliment, and the compliment of other members.

You will always see a brief history of all the stamps I display, including the catalogue information which includes the colour and shade colour.

Rob

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"Specialised Collector of Australian Pre-Decimal & Decimal Stamps"
Winedrinker
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12 Apr 2017
09:54:29pm
re: Very Rare 1949-1950 Coat-of-Arms Combination

Very nice Robert, great info. I just updated my "Coat of Arms" stamps from "used" to "mint." None with very thin paper alas.

Kangaroo and Emu proudly displayed, nice looking set.

Eric


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Rob1956
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Member ACCC (Australian Commonwealth Collectors Club of NSW)
13 Apr 2017
02:47:20am
re: Very Rare 1949-1950 Coat-of-Arms Combination

Hi Eric

Quote:

"Very nice Robert, great info. I just updated my "Coat of Arms" stamps from "used" to "mint." None with very thin paper alas.

Kangaroo and Emu proudly displayed, nice looking set."


Thanks, The Coat of Arms always look better in mint and they always stand out, even in fine used condition, they are just a fantastic design; the thin paper is not so easy to find.

We are very infatuated with our beloved kangaroo and emu.

Rob
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"Specialised Collector of Australian Pre-Decimal & Decimal Stamps"
Horamakhet
25 Sep 2017
09:32:13pm
re: Very Rare 1949-1950 Coat-of-Arms Combination

HI Rob
How do you distinguish between the Normal Coat of Arms and the thin paper ones.
I have a few of the five shillings and some in blocks of four, but I have no idea how you distinguish one from the other.
Any information always appreciated.
Horamakhet

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Rob1956
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Member ACCC (Australian Commonwealth Collectors Club of NSW)
26 Sep 2017
06:00:08pm
re: Very Rare 1949-1950 Coat-of-Arms Combination

Quote:

"HI Rob
How do you distinguish between the Normal Coat of Arms and the thin paper ones.
I have a few of the five shillings and some in blocks of four, but I have no idea how you distinguish one from the other.
Any information always appreciated.
Horamakhet"


Hi Horamakhet

Sorry for the delay in responding, to identify a Coat-of-Arms on thin paper can be done by looking at 2 things on the stamp, the colour would be darker than others of the same value, and from the back, the transparency will be strong; you can also use a paper micrometer, which would accurately determine the thinness of the stamp (never use a metal gauge caliper as it would damage the stamp).

Here is an example of the thin and normal papers of the 5/- and £2 stamps.

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5/- thick paper (normal)


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5/- thin paper

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£2 thick paper (normal)

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£2 thin paper

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Paper micrometer with digital reading.

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Digital and manual metal gauging vernier calipers

Rob


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"Specialised Collector of Australian Pre-Decimal & Decimal Stamps"
Benque
26 Sep 2017
07:14:54pm
re: Very Rare 1949-1950 Coat-of-Arms Combination

The two instruments on the bottom are called vernier calipers.
The one at the top is a zero-to-one (inch) micrometer.
All are common measuring instruments used in every industry I can think of, and availavle at any industrial hardware store.
Commonly used brand names, both for quality and reasonable price are Starrett, or Mitutoyo.

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Rob1956
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Member ACCC (Australian Commonwealth Collectors Club of NSW)
26 Sep 2017
09:01:48pm
re: Very Rare 1949-1950 Coat-of-Arms Combination

Quote:

"The two instruments on the bottom are called vernier calipers.
The one at the top is a zero-to-one (inch) micrometer.
All are common measuring instruments used in every industry I can think of, and availavle at any industrial hardware store.
Commonly used brand names, both for quality and reasonable price are Starrett, or Mitutoyo."


Hi Benque

My mistake, the bottom tools are vernier calipers, as I have both in my tools of trade. I have known people who attempted to use the digital version to measure the thickness of stamps, very foolish and definitely not recommended.

The above micrometer is what is used to measure the thickness of stamps. Only problem for me, they are not available in Sydney (the place where I reside).

Rob
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"Specialised Collector of Australian Pre-Decimal & Decimal Stamps"
Benque
27 Sep 2017
08:55:06am
re: Very Rare 1949-1950 Coat-of-Arms Combination

Hi Rob,
I also used these tools to make my living for many years.
I am a little surprised that the digital readouts proved difficult for some, to measure stamps.
I too would use the micrometer for stamps, but for those not accustomed to their use, getting the "feel" of it might take a little time. I remember being unsure if I had done it too tight, or too loose for a while, when first learning.
I'm surprised they are difficult to find where you are. Occasionally I see them at garage sales. There are a lot of aviation tradesmen (and support industries) in my area though, so that probably accounts for it.
If I had a spare "mic" I'd send it to you.

You could always set up a dial indicator, run it on and off the stamp, and record the difference. It'd be faster than using a mic or calipers. wouldn't squeeze the paper, and very accurate. Personally, I'd use one with a horizontal stylus.

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Rob1956
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Member ACCC (Australian Commonwealth Collectors Club of NSW)
27 Sep 2017
05:45:50pm
re: Very Rare 1949-1950 Coat-of-Arms Combination

Hi Benque

I prefer the digital caliper; it makes working with them much easier and far more accurate. Of course using a micrometer for the first time will not be easy, but using it on cheap stamps and a common thin paper can help understand the usage of the micrometer.

The micrometer is not only difficult to find but literally do not exist in the entirety of New South Wales, although I can get one in Victoria, which is 878.5 km (545 miles) away, and that tool would cost me $200, a little too steep for a micrometer as far as I am concerned.

I would have accepted the micrometer and paid the postage cost myself, thanks for the thought though.

Quote:

"You could always set up a dial indicator, run it on and off the stamp, and record the difference. It'd be faster than using a mic or calipers. Wouldn’t squeeze the paper, and very accurate. Personally, I'd use one with a horizontal stylus "


You have my interest, I must admit, I'm a little naive here, what do you mean?

Rob

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"Specialised Collector of Australian Pre-Decimal & Decimal Stamps"
Benque
27 Sep 2017
07:33:36pm
re: Very Rare 1949-1950 Coat-of-Arms Combination

Hi Rob,
Yes, cost is kind of high.
On the other hand, I do have a dial indicator which I would think perfect for the job, which I do not expect to use again. As well, I should still have the necessary pieces to allow you to set it up properly.
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If I can find all the pieces, I could send you a indicator like the one in the lower left, along with a clamp like the one top left, and the bits and pieces to put them together.
The indicator shown in the bottom right has a button sensor, rather than the preferred stylus sensor like the one on the left.
Imagine the magnetic base to be a clamp type, so you could clamp it to your work table.
Set it up so the indicator stylus contacts your work surface, plus a little bit, then rotate the bezel so the dial face is at zero to the indicating needle. The stylus is adjustable, just move it up and down to it's limits, to see how much latitude you have in your set up. As close to absolute horizontal as possible is the best for accuracy, but it isn't something to worry too much about.
Slide the stamp under the stylus and note the new reading.....that is your thickness, in thousandths of an inch. A pane of smooth glass would make an ideal measuring surface.

Give me a few days to get hold of my old tool boxes and see if I still have all the necessary stuff. I'll let you know what I find, and then we can sort out the logistics of getting it to you.
edit: I should mention that both indicators shown on the right would be unsuitable, as the force required to move the sensors would probably be far too high for the stamps to withstand, while the indicator on the left, with the horizontal stylus sensor would work like a charm.

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Rob1956
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Member ACCC (Australian Commonwealth Collectors Club of NSW)
28 Sep 2017
11:39:07pm
re: Very Rare 1949-1950 Coat-of-Arms Combination

Hi Benque

Will be waiting for your post and if you can locate all the pieces we can work out the transport.

Rob


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"Specialised Collector of Australian Pre-Decimal & Decimal Stamps"
Horamakhet
03 Oct 2017
07:02:35am
re: Very Rare 1949-1950 Coat-of-Arms Combination

Hi Rob and all others

I have digital caliper, or electronic vernier gauge.

As a Gemmologist I use it all the time to measure gems and diamonds.

The micrometer you use, we also use in Gemmology, but we use it to measure pearls.

If you try a gemmological Instrument supply house, of which there are a few in Sydney you may pick one up at a reasonable price.

I think there is a firm in Sydney called Ladybird that may have them.
If not ring the Gemmological Association of Australia, NSW branch and I am sure that they would be able to put you onto a source for the micrometer.
Hope this is of help to all.
Regards
Horamakhet

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Horamakhet
28 Nov 2017
06:53:08am
re: Very Rare 1949-1950 Coat-of-Arms Combination

Hi Rob

Would this be thick or thin paper.
this is a used block of four 5/- Coat of Arms

Regards

HoramakhetImage Not Found

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Rob1956
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Member ACCC (Australian Commonwealth Collectors Club of NSW)
28 Nov 2017
04:13:22pm
re: Very Rare 1949-1950 Coat-of-Arms Combination

They look like thin paper, I would need to see the front, there is a big difference in the shading. Since I posted the above stamps, I have added more to the Coat-of-Arms series, there is now 15 different shades etc in my collection.

Rob

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"Specialised Collector of Australian Pre-Decimal & Decimal Stamps"
Horamakhet
28 Nov 2017
05:44:02pm
re: Very Rare 1949-1950 Coat-of-Arms Combination

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Hi Rob,
This a front scan of the block of four.

Nice clean block and the post mark is pretty good as well with it not obliteration too much of the design.

You are truly a treasure trove of information.

Regards

Horamkhet

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Rob1956
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Member ACCC (Australian Commonwealth Collectors Club of NSW)
28 Nov 2017
08:25:44pm
re: Very Rare 1949-1950 Coat-of-Arms Combination

Thanks, I'm always available to help.

Normally the thickness of the paper needs to be measured. But by comparing your block of 4 with my 5/- thin paper, the shading is right, the paper is definitely transparent, it seems you have a block of 4 thin papers.

Rob

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"Specialised Collector of Australian Pre-Decimal & Decimal Stamps"
Horamakhet
28 Nov 2017
09:12:03pm
re: Very Rare 1949-1950 Coat-of-Arms Combination

Thanks Rob

That makes me very happy, as I picked them up in a collection of Mixed pre-decimals for a song, there where about a 1000 plus stamps, ranging from George V to George VI

It is truly amazing what can turn up.

Regards

Horamkhet

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Rob1956
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Member ACCC (Australian Commonwealth Collectors Club of NSW)
29 Nov 2017
09:04:19am
re: Very Rare 1949-1950 Coat-of-Arms Combination

Sometimes a scarce or even a rare stamp will be overlooked by their former owners, pity it never happens to me.

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"Specialised Collector of Australian Pre-Decimal & Decimal Stamps"
Kapul
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01 Dec 2017
06:57:58pm
re: Very Rare 1949-1950 Coat-of-Arms Combination

Rob, even although I do not collect Australia I love reading your very formative posts.

PNG perhaps!!!

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Rob1956
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Member ACCC (Australian Commonwealth Collectors Club of NSW)
01 Dec 2017
07:53:10pm
re: Very Rare 1949-1950 Coat-of-Arms Combination

Thanks Kapul, I like to make my posts as informative as I can. The only PNG at the moment I have posted was in an earlier thread on Stamporama.

Here is the link, my post is at the top of the thread.
https://stamporama.com/discboard/disc_main.php?action=20&id=15598#139140

Rob

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"Specialised Collector of Australian Pre-Decimal & Decimal Stamps"
        
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