Discussion - Member to Member Sales - Research Center
Discussion - Member to Member Sales - Research Center
I was wondering if this card was "postage due" because of the upside down 3 in a box just left of the postage stamp. Also, what is up with all the numbers stamped side-by-side along the bottom edge? Anybody seen these before or know what these are?
Linus
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Linus what a great card !!!! i was recently wondering about the A 799 on my card. Our friends in The Netherlands can probably tell us the answer.
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Phil,
The Dutch seemed to like numbers back then. Must of been some sort of routing system.
Linus
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The cancel A799 is a postman identification cancel. It shows that the letter was delivered in Amsterdam at the first delivery round (at that time the mail was delivered seven (!) times per day, the deliveries were marked A through G) by a postman who used cancel 799. I cannot find who this was, but the cancel was handed out in January 1916, so he was working as a postman for at least 8 years when this card was mailed.
The card to Chicago was rejected. I cannot read the blue and red texts precisely, but the first blue words are "niet toegelaten" = not allowed.
The other words are unclear, but look like they are "return sender" and "address unknown" (almost sounds like an Elvis song now!)
The cancels at the bottom show that a large number of postal employees have been busy with this card. No letters, which indicates that the card did not leave the post office. The 3 in octagon is from the office manager who also had to look at this card.
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The postal service has certainly changed...they do not have to deliver twice a day like when i was a kid...but when they had people that knew the route you received your own mail and not your neighbors....now they use part timers to deliver the mail..crazy !
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As I read the first postcard:
Top and bottom horizontal lines in blue: Niet toegelaten / Terug afzender (Not allowed, return to sender)
Red in between: Afzender onbekend, doorzenden (sender unknown, send on (to Chicago))
Blue at angle at top: doorzenden (send on)
Blue at right: afzender onbekend
Blue at bottom T (horizontal) Haag(?) (T means postaqe due)
As Jan Simon says, the 3 in octagon is the office manager. The numbers across the bottom are the delivery men confirming that they do not know who the sender was. (This was in the days when the deliverymen know everybody on their route.)
So: The postcard was written 26 November, stamp was canceled 27 November, for some reason the postcard was not allowed and had to be returned to sender. Nobody knew the sender, so it could not be returned. It was sent on (cancel 28 November), arrived in New York 11 December, and Chicago 15(?) December.
Why the postcard was not allowed, I don't know. The 5 cent postage is correct. Perhaps it was mailed without a stamp, and the stamp was added by the postoffice, but this is just guesswork.
Jan
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Thank you, Jan and Jan Simon, very much for the detailed explanation of my postcard! I have learned a great deal, and I will keep your explanation/translation narrative along with this postcard in my postal history collection. I just happened to find this card at the Brass Armadillo Antique Mall in Des Moines, Iowa, USA, and I knew it had a story to tell.
I appreciate your help,
Linus
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I think the card may have been rejected because it was not in accordance with UPU regulations for postal cards. It could be the size, the lack of the required inscriptions or the amount of writing on the picture side. It could even be that this card was rejected by mistake, because at the UPU congress of 1897 the regulations for postal cards had been relaxed and perhaps the postal workers in The Hague were not aware of this when they rejected the card in 1898...
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nice postcard! thanks!
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I recently acquired the postcard shown below:
I was wondering if this card was "postage due" because of the upside down 3 in a box just left of the postage stamp. Also, what is up with all the numbers stamped side-by-side along the bottom edge? Anybody seen these before or know what these are?
Linus
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Auctions
re: Number Cancellations From The Netherlands
Linus what a great card !!!! i was recently wondering about the A 799 on my card. Our friends in The Netherlands can probably tell us the answer.
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re: Number Cancellations From The Netherlands
Phil,
The Dutch seemed to like numbers back then. Must of been some sort of routing system.
Linus
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Auctions - Approvals
re: Number Cancellations From The Netherlands
The cancel A799 is a postman identification cancel. It shows that the letter was delivered in Amsterdam at the first delivery round (at that time the mail was delivered seven (!) times per day, the deliveries were marked A through G) by a postman who used cancel 799. I cannot find who this was, but the cancel was handed out in January 1916, so he was working as a postman for at least 8 years when this card was mailed.
The card to Chicago was rejected. I cannot read the blue and red texts precisely, but the first blue words are "niet toegelaten" = not allowed.
The other words are unclear, but look like they are "return sender" and "address unknown" (almost sounds like an Elvis song now!)
The cancels at the bottom show that a large number of postal employees have been busy with this card. No letters, which indicates that the card did not leave the post office. The 3 in octagon is from the office manager who also had to look at this card.
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re: Number Cancellations From The Netherlands
The postal service has certainly changed...they do not have to deliver twice a day like when i was a kid...but when they had people that knew the route you received your own mail and not your neighbors....now they use part timers to deliver the mail..crazy !
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07:01:54pm
re: Number Cancellations From The Netherlands
As I read the first postcard:
Top and bottom horizontal lines in blue: Niet toegelaten / Terug afzender (Not allowed, return to sender)
Red in between: Afzender onbekend, doorzenden (sender unknown, send on (to Chicago))
Blue at angle at top: doorzenden (send on)
Blue at right: afzender onbekend
Blue at bottom T (horizontal) Haag(?) (T means postaqe due)
As Jan Simon says, the 3 in octagon is the office manager. The numbers across the bottom are the delivery men confirming that they do not know who the sender was. (This was in the days when the deliverymen know everybody on their route.)
So: The postcard was written 26 November, stamp was canceled 27 November, for some reason the postcard was not allowed and had to be returned to sender. Nobody knew the sender, so it could not be returned. It was sent on (cancel 28 November), arrived in New York 11 December, and Chicago 15(?) December.
Why the postcard was not allowed, I don't know. The 5 cent postage is correct. Perhaps it was mailed without a stamp, and the stamp was added by the postoffice, but this is just guesswork.
Jan
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re: Number Cancellations From The Netherlands
Thank you, Jan and Jan Simon, very much for the detailed explanation of my postcard! I have learned a great deal, and I will keep your explanation/translation narrative along with this postcard in my postal history collection. I just happened to find this card at the Brass Armadillo Antique Mall in Des Moines, Iowa, USA, and I knew it had a story to tell.
I appreciate your help,
Linus
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Auctions - Approvals
re: Number Cancellations From The Netherlands
I think the card may have been rejected because it was not in accordance with UPU regulations for postal cards. It could be the size, the lack of the required inscriptions or the amount of writing on the picture side. It could even be that this card was rejected by mistake, because at the UPU congress of 1897 the regulations for postal cards had been relaxed and perhaps the postal workers in The Hague were not aware of this when they rejected the card in 1898...
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06:37:56am
re: Number Cancellations From The Netherlands
nice postcard! thanks!
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