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Europe/Other : Guthrum Scammed Again!

 

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Guthrum
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13 Jan 2017
06:42:20pm
This is getting tiresome...

Anyway, here's how it happened. Below, a not very good scan - because it is a scan of a print-off of a screen cap - of three stamps as advertised on Delcampe. They cost around $10 each.

Image Not Found

These are correctly perforated (count'em, 14 x 18) and nicely centred. Off went my money via a well-known payment company.

This is what I got back:

Image Not FoundImage Not FoundImage Not Found

Incorrectly perforated (count'em, 15x19, a 13.25 perforation unknown to any catalogue unless you have a Sassone for Yugoslavia which says otherwise), and appallingly centred.

This is not just a single rogue dealer - pretty much all of the Italian dealers seem to have similar stuff.

So, he'll have to refund (as the previous fellow did, see similar post elsewhere) and I'll have to fork out £1.05 to send these fakes/forgeries/reprints back to Italy.

The lesson here, I suppose, is do not try to assemble a collection of Italian Occupations in the various bits of Yugoslavia in 1941. I'm sure I've been deprived of my human rights somewhere along the line.At Wits End

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michael78651
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Moderator, MT Member

13 Jan 2017
10:24:21pm
re: Guthrum Scammed Again!

You shouldn't have to pay to send the stamps back. The seller should be responsible for that since the seller sent you the wrong stamps and/or misrepresented the entire sale. I'd tell the seller to issue the refund, and if he wants the stamps back, to add the necessary amount to cover postage.

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"Author: Seasons of Fantasies and Dreams, The Whitechapel Fog"

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HungaryForStamps
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14 Jan 2017
11:56:27am
re: Guthrum Scammed Again!

Yup seller should pay all, but really the fakes should be removed from circulation. Demand a refund and indicate you will destroy the fakes. Surely your payment method protects you if Delcampe doesn't.

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amsd
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Editor, Seal News; contributor, JuicyHeads

14 Jan 2017
12:21:49pm
re: Guthrum Scammed Again!

I don't know what Delecampe's policy is, but you bought one thing and were sent something else. you should not be responsible for any of it, and, as others said, it would be good if you could indicate FORGERY on the back. Of course, this isn't mistaken identity; this is thievery and the seller shouuld be reported...

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Guthrum
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15 Jan 2017
04:47:48pm
re: Guthrum Scammed Again!

Well, I have sent an email to Giovanni Romini of Ravenna, asking again for an explanation, and demanding a refund within 48 hours. I have kept the forgeries and informed Delcampe what I am doing.

I do not think much good will come of this - I can't imagine Delcampe being all that interested in a complaint from their stamp-dealing section, which they have lately run down to a remarkable extent. I doubt Sgr Romini will refund until he has his hands on his forgeries again.

We shall see.

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usrevenues
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15 Jan 2017
05:09:00pm
re: Guthrum Scammed Again!

There is some dangerous advice being given in this thread. You as the buyer do not get to determine whether to indelibly mark or destroy merchandise that you do not own, i.e., you are intending to return or obtain a refund for. The seller can make that determination. The venue/platform can make that determination. The payment processor can make that determination. The buyer cannot.

Otherwise, what is to prevent scammers from claiming fortgery/counterfeit on anything and everything just as a means to get merchandise for free?

Seeking to return for refund is fine. Seeking to destroy goods belonging to others is not.

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Guthrum
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15 Jan 2017
05:14:15pm
re: Guthrum Scammed Again!

Thanks for that, Dan. I've kept the forgeries (?forgeries, reprints, whatever - judge for yourself on my illustration) and won't be defacing or destroying them.

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amsd
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Editor, Seal News; contributor, JuicyHeads

15 Jan 2017
06:23:40pm
re: Guthrum Scammed Again!

just so we're clear, I didn't advise that Ian SHould mark them forgories but wished that he Could mark them as such.


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"Save the USPS, buy stamps; save the hobby, use commemoratives"

juicyheads.com/link.php?PLJZJP
Guthrum
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16 Jan 2017
06:24:47am
re: Guthrum Scammed Again!

This morning Sgr Romini has sent a refund with an abject apology. He bought the stamps from a third party. He is an Italian specialist, not a Yugoslavian and therefore did not recognise the problem. He wants the stamps back so that he can confront the person who sold them to him. He is an honest man, with no intent to deceive.

His Italian, or Italian spelling, is poor, such that automatic translation is even further garbled, which makes it difficult to know exactly what he is saying. The above captures the gist of what he means, I think.

Delcampe, as suspected, is not very interested and has sent a form email suggesting I 'open a dispute' (their term for what I take to be a legal requirement for such host websites). I've been down that route a couple of times before and nothing ever comes of it. Their interest will cease now that I have been refunded.

Romini is the second Italian dealer who has sent me the same sort of forgery, which suggests that someone has flooded the Italian stamp market with these productions, hoping that no Italian dealer is sufficiently expert in the niche 'Italian Occupations' issues to notice - those generally being overprinted Yugoslavian stamps, and very seldom offered.

But then again, even if the stamps had been genuine, the copies sent to me were so disgracefully ill-centred and obviously different from what had been illustrated, that either Romini's honesty or his competence must still remain in considerable doubt.


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Milco
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23 Apr 2017
02:53:26pm
re: Guthrum Scammed Again!

Very interesting, as I see again in Michel catalog, there are no "Falsh" notice under this issue. You have issue from Juni 7, 1941 - set of three value (50p, 1 D and 2 D), overprint on Yugoslavia PORTO stamps (Michel #11-13, under Italy section), but I see in SLOVENKA (local catalog), there are actually one footnote for "Unreleased" with photo of one value. There I see quality of overprint very similar to this one You show (but it is for 5 D and 10 D values).

So, again, I will not suggest to purchase this period material without certificate!
(even if it is just few $ cost, don't purchase it without certificate).



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Author/Postings
Members Picture
Guthrum

13 Jan 2017
06:42:20pm

This is getting tiresome...

Anyway, here's how it happened. Below, a not very good scan - because it is a scan of a print-off of a screen cap - of three stamps as advertised on Delcampe. They cost around $10 each.

Image Not Found

These are correctly perforated (count'em, 14 x 18) and nicely centred. Off went my money via a well-known payment company.

This is what I got back:

Image Not FoundImage Not FoundImage Not Found

Incorrectly perforated (count'em, 15x19, a 13.25 perforation unknown to any catalogue unless you have a Sassone for Yugoslavia which says otherwise), and appallingly centred.

This is not just a single rogue dealer - pretty much all of the Italian dealers seem to have similar stuff.

So, he'll have to refund (as the previous fellow did, see similar post elsewhere) and I'll have to fork out £1.05 to send these fakes/forgeries/reprints back to Italy.

The lesson here, I suppose, is do not try to assemble a collection of Italian Occupations in the various bits of Yugoslavia in 1941. I'm sure I've been deprived of my human rights somewhere along the line.At Wits End

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Members Picture
michael78651

Moderator, MT Member
13 Jan 2017
10:24:21pm

re: Guthrum Scammed Again!

You shouldn't have to pay to send the stamps back. The seller should be responsible for that since the seller sent you the wrong stamps and/or misrepresented the entire sale. I'd tell the seller to issue the refund, and if he wants the stamps back, to add the necessary amount to cover postage.

Like
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this post

"Author: Seasons of Fantasies and Dreams, The Whitechapel Fog"

www.hipstamp.com/sto ...
Members Picture
HungaryForStamps

14 Jan 2017
11:56:27am

re: Guthrum Scammed Again!

Yup seller should pay all, but really the fakes should be removed from circulation. Demand a refund and indicate you will destroy the fakes. Surely your payment method protects you if Delcampe doesn't.

Like
Login to Like
this post
Members Picture
amsd

Editor, Seal News; contributor, JuicyHeads
14 Jan 2017
12:21:49pm

re: Guthrum Scammed Again!

I don't know what Delecampe's policy is, but you bought one thing and were sent something else. you should not be responsible for any of it, and, as others said, it would be good if you could indicate FORGERY on the back. Of course, this isn't mistaken identity; this is thievery and the seller shouuld be reported...

Like 
1 Member
likes this post.
Login to Like.

"Save the USPS, buy stamps; save the hobby, use commemoratives"

juicyheads.com/link. ...
Members Picture
Guthrum

15 Jan 2017
04:47:48pm

re: Guthrum Scammed Again!

Well, I have sent an email to Giovanni Romini of Ravenna, asking again for an explanation, and demanding a refund within 48 hours. I have kept the forgeries and informed Delcampe what I am doing.

I do not think much good will come of this - I can't imagine Delcampe being all that interested in a complaint from their stamp-dealing section, which they have lately run down to a remarkable extent. I doubt Sgr Romini will refund until he has his hands on his forgeries again.

We shall see.

Like
Login to Like
this post
Members Picture
usrevenues

15 Jan 2017
05:09:00pm

re: Guthrum Scammed Again!

There is some dangerous advice being given in this thread. You as the buyer do not get to determine whether to indelibly mark or destroy merchandise that you do not own, i.e., you are intending to return or obtain a refund for. The seller can make that determination. The venue/platform can make that determination. The payment processor can make that determination. The buyer cannot.

Otherwise, what is to prevent scammers from claiming fortgery/counterfeit on anything and everything just as a means to get merchandise for free?

Seeking to return for refund is fine. Seeking to destroy goods belonging to others is not.

Like 
2 Members
like this post.
Login to Like.

www.revenue-collecto ...
Members Picture
Guthrum

15 Jan 2017
05:14:15pm

re: Guthrum Scammed Again!

Thanks for that, Dan. I've kept the forgeries (?forgeries, reprints, whatever - judge for yourself on my illustration) and won't be defacing or destroying them.

Like
Login to Like
this post
Members Picture
amsd

Editor, Seal News; contributor, JuicyHeads
15 Jan 2017
06:23:40pm

re: Guthrum Scammed Again!

just so we're clear, I didn't advise that Ian SHould mark them forgories but wished that he Could mark them as such.


Like
Login to Like
this post

"Save the USPS, buy stamps; save the hobby, use commemoratives"

juicyheads.com/link. ...
Members Picture
Guthrum

16 Jan 2017
06:24:47am

re: Guthrum Scammed Again!

This morning Sgr Romini has sent a refund with an abject apology. He bought the stamps from a third party. He is an Italian specialist, not a Yugoslavian and therefore did not recognise the problem. He wants the stamps back so that he can confront the person who sold them to him. He is an honest man, with no intent to deceive.

His Italian, or Italian spelling, is poor, such that automatic translation is even further garbled, which makes it difficult to know exactly what he is saying. The above captures the gist of what he means, I think.

Delcampe, as suspected, is not very interested and has sent a form email suggesting I 'open a dispute' (their term for what I take to be a legal requirement for such host websites). I've been down that route a couple of times before and nothing ever comes of it. Their interest will cease now that I have been refunded.

Romini is the second Italian dealer who has sent me the same sort of forgery, which suggests that someone has flooded the Italian stamp market with these productions, hoping that no Italian dealer is sufficiently expert in the niche 'Italian Occupations' issues to notice - those generally being overprinted Yugoslavian stamps, and very seldom offered.

But then again, even if the stamps had been genuine, the copies sent to me were so disgracefully ill-centred and obviously different from what had been illustrated, that either Romini's honesty or his competence must still remain in considerable doubt.


Like 
2 Members
like this post.
Login to Like.
Members Picture
Milco

23 Apr 2017
02:53:26pm

re: Guthrum Scammed Again!

Very interesting, as I see again in Michel catalog, there are no "Falsh" notice under this issue. You have issue from Juni 7, 1941 - set of three value (50p, 1 D and 2 D), overprint on Yugoslavia PORTO stamps (Michel #11-13, under Italy section), but I see in SLOVENKA (local catalog), there are actually one footnote for "Unreleased" with photo of one value. There I see quality of overprint very similar to this one You show (but it is for 5 D and 10 D values).

So, again, I will not suggest to purchase this period material without certificate!
(even if it is just few $ cost, don't purchase it without certificate).



Like
Login to Like
this post

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