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Europe/Great Britain : Warped 1960's Presentation Packs.

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Brechinite
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Neddie Seagoon from The Telegoons
11 Dec 2016
02:07:00pm

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Does anybody know how to return these warped packs back to flat packs?
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lemaven
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11 Dec 2016
07:19:30pm

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re: Warped 1960's Presentation Packs.

Ian: I had some horribly warped Russia stamps (literally curled around each other like a cigarette).

I put them between two glass sheets from old picture frames. I then took an iron (very warm moreso than hot) and pressed down across the top glass sheet for just a second or two. The stamps felt warm but the gum did not melt and they didn't stick to the glass.

They were flat as could be and have stayed so.

I didn't try this with glassines or envelopes of stamps, but think the same approach should work ok. Maybe try a small sample and see if it works for you. Can you report results back here (good or bad) afterwards?

Cheers, Dave.

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towards2112
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11 Dec 2016
08:01:29pm
re: Warped 1960's Presentation Packs.

Baking Parchment Paper is quickly becoming my favorite item when pressing
any type of paper items. In some fields removing a curl can be the difference
between $10 and $ 500. I also found some red high heat(500 F) silicone
cooking sheets that are used for cooking pastry on. I've never had any
damage on either one when using a little common sense, and paying attention
to what I'm doing.

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doomboy
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11 Dec 2016
08:17:00pm
re: Warped 1960's Presentation Packs.

Ian:

Are they shrink-wrapped?

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Brechinite
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Neddie Seagoon from The Telegoons
12 Dec 2016
03:27:33am

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re: Warped 1960's Presentation Packs.

doomboy:- Aye Its some kind of Cellophane, not the sort of shrink wrap you get nowadays.

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Brechinite
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Neddie Seagoon from The Telegoons
12 Dec 2016
11:22:29am

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re: Warped 1960's Presentation Packs.

Here is a scan of the problem
Image Not Found
Image Not Found

You can see they are not lying flat!!
The Forth Road Bridge can sell for £300 when perfect.
Th Battle of Britain can sell for £40 when perfect.

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doomboy
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12 Dec 2016
11:27:46am
re: Warped 1960's Presentation Packs.

I think the only way you MAY have any success is application of weight for an extended period of time. Usually with warped paper, humidity is a good thing. Of course we all know not to play that game with stamps. Place (heavy) weights strategically on the areas that are most warped. A piece of wood or other relatively heavy flat object over top of the offending presentation pack may also help. No heat. Cellophane doesn't like it.

Even then, this is relatively hit-and-miss. Hope there's someone out there who has a magic bullet for you, Ian.

Darryl

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lemaven
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12 Dec 2016
11:56:57am

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re: Warped 1960's Presentation Packs.

Ian, please tell me you're kidding about the values you quoted.

I found the exact same packets, and another couple of presentation packets with Machins in THE HOARD.

They were also warped like yours so I took the stamps out of the packets and flattened them, and threw the "bad packaging" away.

I still have the stamps at least (which I thought were fairly low CV) waiting to go into an Auction some day when I get to Great Britain...

Dave Sad

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sheepshanks
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12 Dec 2016
12:16:38pm
re: Warped 1960's Presentation Packs.

I imagine the basic problem is that the cellophane has shrunk, thereby warping the contents. The only solution I can see would be to remove the wrapper and re-wrap with cling film or some other shrink wrap.
It appears to be a common problem with the older presentation packs shrinking in even moderate warmth over time.
Sorry not to have a magic solution.

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sheepshanks
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12 Dec 2016
12:18:34pm
re: Warped 1960's Presentation Packs.

Thought just occurs, maybe you could use one of the vacuum sealer's and associated film to re-seal the packs.

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doomboy
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12 Dec 2016
01:29:18pm
re: Warped 1960's Presentation Packs.

Does the market value of the presentation packs require the wrapping to be intact?

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ikeyPikey
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13 Dec 2016
08:39:10am
re: Warped 1960's Presentation Packs.

"... re-seal the packs ..." would be the sort of "repair" that would require that each pack be so labelled, lest the worst words fly.

I would imagine that Original Wrapping is one step shy of Original Gum.

Vacuum sealing might not be the best choice (see Original Gum, above) ... better to go all the way, and replace the air with nitrogen, and heat seal.

Cheers,

/s/ ikeyPikey

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Brechinite
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Neddie Seagoon from The Telegoons
13 Dec 2016
09:08:40am

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re: Warped 1960's Presentation Packs.

The Original wrapping is the "Bee all and end all".
Without the original wrapping the value drops to about £40 for the Forth Road Bridge Pack Insert.
The stamps themselves are pretty low in value.

I have thought about removing the stamps and then trying to gradually flatten the pack in a humid atmosphere with increasing weights.

lemaven:- " Whata mistakea to makea". Its easy done, as you cannot know everything about everything.

However a thought has just come to me. It will take several days to set up. I'll let you all know if its successful.

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Brechinite
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Neddie Seagoon from The Telegoons
13 Dec 2016
09:12:33am

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re: Warped 1960's Presentation Packs.

lemaven:- If you want up to date retail prices for GB Presentation Packs try

PacksandCards.com.

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TuskenRaider
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14 Dec 2016
02:38:26pm
re: Warped 1960's Presentation Packs.

Hi Brechinite;

This problem has been widely discussed on eBay forums.

Lots of collectibles like plastic models come with a film (shrink) wrap over the box. People who like items to be NIB (new-in-box), think that they should leave all packaging alone.

HUGE MISTAKE, ditch the film wrap and put in something else. Whatever else you choose for transparency, test it first. Take the material (without stamps) and apply heat from a hairdryer on low. If it shrinks, DO NOT use.

Many collectors of 1970s Star Wars plastic models, especially the very large ones, stored their treasures for a few years to increase their values. To their horror, they found crushed boxes and broken plastic parts!!!

Shrink wrap is not suitable for long term storage and will continue to shrink, and under the right conditions fairly quickly too.

Remove the plastic film, place under heavy weight for extended time. That should fix them.

Good luck and let us know how you fixed this.

Just sortin'....
TuskenRaider

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Brechinite
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Neddie Seagoon from The Telegoons
18 Dec 2016
03:52:20pm

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re: Warped 1960's Presentation Packs.

Still working on a solution.
I have them out of the cellophane and under 10 catalogues and two stockbooks.
The main "solution" is still to arrive.
Bloomin' Christmas post!!!

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cdj1122
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Silence in the face of adversity is the father of complicity and collusion, the first cousins of conspiracy..
27 Dec 2016
09:44:13am
re: Warped 1960's Presentation Packs.

Since I do not have any of these prestige packs, I can't check this mmy self, but once out of the clear wrapper couldn't the stamps within be exchanged ?
And if that is right will that not alter the perceived value to collectors ?

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Brechinite
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Neddie Seagoon from The Telegoons
29 Dec 2016
04:01:52pm

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re: Warped 1960's Presentation Packs.

Yes. The value is in the pack being complete and original. The stamps may be easily replaced but the problem is with the cellophane wrapper. It "shrinks" through time and tightens it hold on the cardboard insert, thus the pack becomes warped. The cellophane is also quite brittle and rips very very easily. So you might be able to get the insert out but you'll never get it back into the cellophane.
Some unscroupulous people are actually shaving the inserts by a couple of millimeters to get them back into the wrappers and selling them as with original wrapper!!
A lot of the early presentation packs have had their original cellophane replaced by the plastic used on the 1970's packs. You have to be very careful when buying them on the internet as sometimes it does not say if its the original cellophane or the 1970's replacement.
I am still working on a solution to the problem.

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DavidG
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APS member since 2004
30 Dec 2016
09:21:40am
re: Warped 1960's Presentation Packs.

Am I correct to understand that the 1960s were warped? Laughing

David

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Brechinite
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Neddie Seagoon from The Telegoons
30 Dec 2016
10:33:25am

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re: Warped 1960's Presentation Packs.

David

You know what they say "If you can remember the sixties. You weren't there"!!

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Benque
03 Jan 2017
11:34:56am
re: Warped 1960's Presentation Packs.

I would guess that "time" is not causing the brittleness and shrinkage of the cellophane wrappers, but perhaps evaporation of volatiles in the material.
Think of an old tire or inner tube shrinking and cracking.
If someone with chemistry knowledge of plastics could offer some advice, perhaps there is a way to rejuvenate the wrappers from the outside, without affecting the contents.
Sort of a wrinkle remover.

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sheepshanks
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03 Jan 2017
02:47:10pm
re: Warped 1960's Presentation Packs.

Quote:

"Sort of a wrinkle remover."


Oh you mean those sort of chemicals.

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dollhaus
03 Jan 2017
07:56:55pm
re: Warped 1960's Presentation Packs.

Is there a chemist in the audience? Guess I'll have to admit that.

OK - cellophane is an old, old packaging material. It's really not a plastic - it's regenerated cellulose. It's actually the same thing as rayon. In a sheet, it's cellophane; in a thread fiber, it's rayon. Most cellophane has a small amount of glycerin added (for pliability) and a nitrocellulose coating (for water impermeability - raw cellophane allows moisture to pass through).

Now, what causes cellophane to shrink? Heat. If you heat cellophane, it shrinks. You can check this out with some cellophane and a hair dryer. Blow hot air on the sheet and you can see it shrink. This is why in its other form (rayon) washing instructions are always "cold water only" or some similar warning. If you wash a rayon garment in hot water, it shrinks.

Heat is relative. There is some heat available at room temperature, so over a long period of time, the cumulative effect on cellophane is shrinkage, a tiny bit at a time. Shrinkage occurs a lot faster when you heat it well above room temperature, so you might have four or five year's worth of ambient shrinkage show up in one high temp wash cycle.

It's really not a problem in most uses of cellophane today. Wrapping of food is the number 1 use, and the food is used and gone well before shrinkage would be an issue.

Sorry, but I don't know any way to reverse cellophane shrinkage.

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Benque
05 Jan 2017
06:12:26am
re: Warped 1960's Presentation Packs.

Thanks dollhaus,
That was the KIND of answer I was hoping for, just not the RESULT I was hoping for.

Well everyone, we'd better keep our presentation packs in the fridge!

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ikeyPikey
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05 Jan 2017
08:53:26am
re: Warped 1960's Presentation Packs.

And never take them out.

C-o-n-d-e-n-s-a-t-i-o-n.

Cheers,

/s/ ikeyPikey

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dollhaus
05 Jan 2017
11:33:51am
re: Warped 1960's Presentation Packs.

An additional comment on wrappers - all wrappers. There are two enemies of transparent wrapping materials - cellophane, polyethylene, polypropylene, etc. Those are heat and ultraviolet light. Anything you have like the presentation packs should be stored in the coolest possible place and away from any source of light. The outer cover of any storage (album, box, whatever) should be black. Black absorbs UV much better than any other color. Ideally, a black refrigerator would be the best place to store such items, but that's not really practical.

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