Discussion - Member to Member Sales - Research Center
Discussion - Member to Member Sales - Research Center
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The big issue with approvals. As you look through books, you see a ten cent item you want, but have to remember it as you look through the remainder of the book (and other books if that seller has any) to see if you can make up a large enough order to be worthwhile for the postage etc involved.
That's one of the things that keeps me from participating as a buyer.
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Well said Phil and politely stated! I agree 1000%.
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I've never welched or complained about the shipping but I have felt foolish with some of my small approval orders. I felt bad for the sellers actually. Didn't want to waste their time. I've actually beefed up a few orders with stamps I didn't really have to have to get the few I really wanted. SoR approval sellers have been super nice all the way around. Well, except for that one dude. 
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When perusing the auctions, you can always add items to your "Watch List". When you are finished, you can then decide to buy the items, or wait to see if the seller will be adding more auction lots. Don't wait too long, as auction lots do close, and others can buy the items in your watch list. You can also leave the watch list alone and go to the seller's approval books (if the seller has any), get what you want there, and then bid on or buy the auction items from that seller that are in your watch list.
However, there is no excuse for a buyer to say that the shipping is too expensive. Buyers are expected to read all the terms of sale. When a buyer clicks on the "buy" button, the buyer acknowledges that the terms of sale were read and are understood. Whether a stamp is bought for 1 cent or $5000, a sale is a sale and the buyer is obligated to pay for it, including all shipping fees. Failure to do so will result in a buyer's suspension/expulsion from the sales platform.
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Since I sell via approval books - what happens quite often is that I have a buyer that finds one or a few stamps they need from a book that totals less than $1.00. Since my flat rate shipping is normally $1.25 (US) $2.15 (international) - it does make sense for a buyer to pay more for the shipping than the cost of the stamps. I can hold them for awhile but in most cases I may not have anything else they need in the short term. I always offer them a choice - I can just cancel the sale or I try to give them a slight discount on the shipping fee. The problem is the cost of shipping is more than the postage - it is the manila stock card and glassine envelope and the shipping envelope that adds to the cost. All of that is the same whether it is 1 stamp or 100 stamps. I have one buyer who pays me in cash and they send me a self addressed stamped envelope - so I am able to offer a discounted shipping charge but that is something I can only do on a case by case basis. Since there are no fees here - I have no problem cancelling the sale when they realize what they selected does not make sense to pay the shipping fee. Steve
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Michael is tougher than i am..but Stamp collecting is a hobby..if a buyer bases EVERYTHING on dollars and cents...he is missing out on much of the enjoyment !
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Since this has come up, what is the appropriate charge for shipping?
When I set up my approval books, I set the following values:
USA - 50 cents up to 4 covers, 80 cents 5 covers and up.
International - $1.25 up to 4 covers, $2.25 5 covers and up.
I thought that this being a friendly venue, I'd just charge the cost of a stamp. I was selling covers and weighed out that I could get 4 covers into one ounce, then 5 covers for the additional ounce rate. I figured that if someone ordered a bunch of stuff, I'd just eat the extra postage since there was an economy of my time in selling many vs having to package covers up one at a time.
I buy a lot of covers on eBay and other venues. I see postage costs across the board from Free Shipping up to $3 plus to ship a single cover. There have been times I really wanted the item and agreed to the higher shipping costs. What I've found in many cases is that these shippers way over pack items and actually are putting a lot of postage on the envelope!
For instance, I had been selling covers and postcards on eBay for years and never put more than a folded 8.5x11" 110 lb cardstock (Walmart 250 sheets $5).. the same stock I make my album pages from.
That in a number 10 envelope is sufficient for safe travels through the mails. I never had a complaint. I received a single cover the other day in a manila envelope with THREE layers of folded manila folder. This was taped on three sides. Then the clown had taped it to the inside of the envelope!
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I charge a flat rate. Often the quantity purchased causes the postage, other costs and fees to exceed that rate. Anything over the flat rate is at my cost.
What is the correct charge for shipping and handling? That is up to the seller. However, if the seller does not state the cost in the item description (this is required to do, by the way), then the seller can only charge actual postage cost and nothing else.
Phil, I have to be tough on the rules when they are broken. If I don't, then it will turn into a free-for-all with people doing what they want to do without any oversight. To use the selling platforms as a buyer or seller means to act responsibly and follow the rules. This is for the benefit of all users. Without the controls, the sales platforms would collapse.
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Sellers try to be fair.
A small minority of buyers think they should pay only for postage, never mind the cost of card, envelopes, time, shoe leather, waterproofs, cold remedies etc etc ad infinitum
Last week I had an ebay buyer ask me to reduce my shipping charge from Ist class post to 2nd class post. The difference 9 pence. The item was listed at 99pence. Thankfully somebody else bought the item.
Would you waste your time composing and sending a message asking for a 9 pence reduction. Never mind showing yourself to being a miserable skinflint.
Us Scots are supposed to be the meanest on the planet but that geezer last week "took the biscuit".
Buyers forget that the Seller has to pay a percentage to Paypal. With us its a MINIMUM of 27 pence, then over $3.60 its 5%. Then for everybody outside the "dollar zone" we have to be aware of exchange rates and paypal takes another cut.
Lets be honest its a matter of principle, the amounts we are talking about would not "Break the Bank at Monte Carlo"
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It might be a matter of principle but I will never buy from someone that charges me $2.00 to ship one stamp and then has the nerve to add .10 for each additional stamp, like I see on ebay and now beginning to see it in this very site. $2.00 will not make me any richer or poorer but...it is a matter of principle!
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I shall do my best to adhere to the rules...i have been lucky in my life that things are not always black and white but can have shades of gray.
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"but can have shades of gray."
I hope that's not 50 shades of gray.
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Almost everyone follows the rules. Those who don't, most claim not knowing the rules (no excuse) or they misunderstood the process (they learn). For the very few others remaining, well, they find out what happens...
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welll done folks.... good topic with good discussion.
I am comfortable with Phil's forgiving nature.... it's part of what makes him so adorable. but I don't like buyers who put him in that position. Think before you bid.
I only charge exact postage for my shipping..... i've got tons of old envelopes and old glassines, and my time was already terribly discounted by posting the lots initially.. but that's me.
Please remember that not all sellers are Phil, and they don't have to extend you terms that weren't part of the original contract you signed when you bid. I've been in the uncomfortable position of enforcing bids for 25c. Please don't put the auctioneer in that boat, unless Phil's the skipper.
David
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Shipping is part of the cost of an auction/approval purchase. Failure to take that into account is simply irresponsible and/or rude.
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What I do not like is the additional charge for every extra stamp. Regarding the PayPal fees and exchange rate the beauty of the Eurozone is that bank transfers are free, at least with my bank.
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After reading the discussions on S&H charges, All the comments from sellers about time, packaging material, labor, etc, they forget that SOR is a free platform to sell; they are not paying a table fee.
I had hoped that SOR would be similar to taking your extra stamps to the club meeting sales table, and using the profit to buy other stamps for your collection.
I think SOR is great. Just a soft comment.
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"I had hoped that SOR would be similar to taking your extra stamps to the club meeting sales table, and using the profit to buy other stamps for your collection."
Many do just that. Many also help each other out by sending stamps to each other in free trade.
"they forget that SOR is a free platform to sell; they are not paying a table fee."
Buyers like to ignore this, but sellers do pay a fee. PayPal charges, and so does the post office and so do the stores where the paper, envelopes, printer ink and such are purchased. It's not like driving down the street to the stamp club meeting. I often sell stamps, and the costs for me to mail the stamps to the buyers exceeds what the buyer paid for the stamps and the shipping fee. That's not good in a commercial sense as it is a recipe for bankruptcy, but then I'm not operating a business.
The "club" atmosphere here drives the selling prices down, causing marginal profits (when there are profits), and is one of the primary reasons why better material is generally not sold on this site. There also is the low buyer participation rate coupled with a high number of people selling making it a buyer's market.
People here persistently cry out for sellers to list better quality items, but then those same buyers are unwilling to pony up to the bar and pay the price. One can't expect to get Neiman Marcus quality at flea market prices.
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Very nice discussion. A couple years back someone made the comment that he would happily purchase a single stamp that he needs for .10 out of an approval book and pay 1.00 shipping. He fills a spot in his album, makes or reinforces a friendship, and probably gets a nice cover out of the deal. I've adopted that thinking, although I rarely stop at a single stamp!
-Steve
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"I had hoped that SOR would be similar to taking your extra stamps to the club meeting sales table, and using the profit to buy other stamps for your collection."
Nothing in life is free. I pay gas and tolls to get to my club meetings!
The pennies I've made selling on this site goes into my Paypal account and immediately gets gobbled up by my many purchases.
"A couple years back someone made the comment that he would happily purchase a single stamp that he needs for .10 out of an approval book and pay 1.00 shipping. "
I kind of do that. I've paid a few dollars each on eBay for covers for my New Jersey postmark collection... covers that I'd probably be able to pull out of the quarter box at a show. I do that for the convenience of shopping from my computer, a few bucks for the sellers time, postage and fees. And I like getting mail!
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"The pennies I've made selling on this site goes into my Paypal account and immediately gets gobbled up by my many purchases."
I'm with Tommy on this. Originally I just wanted to sell as much as possible of "The Hoard", especially with a very favourable exchange rate. And my agreement with my wife was not to put new money in my PayPal Account, only recirculate what goes in from sales.
But then I got obsessed with Germany and have spent almost every penny of my sales results.
And even though I try to sell as cheaply as possible I usually ask if people are really sure when they want an invoice on just a couple dollars of purchases, and only experienced one "complaint" about shipping charges on what was probably 1,000 stamps for 25c...
And I get some gratification from sending stamps for little or nothing to people who I know will appreciate them more than I, and I have received unconditional generosity back in kind. (We all know who those folks are!)
Stamporama is truly a great blessing in so many ways for all buyers, sellers, collectors, and others. I think we're all pretty lucky to be part of such a great gang!
Cheers, Dave.
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One thing I always do when sending out approvals is frank the envelope with recent commemorative stamps. (from sheets rather than self-stick when available). I also walk the envelope to my local post office and have them hand cancel the stamps. My hope is that this at least helps defray the mailing cost a bit for the collector. Even if they don't collect Canada, they at least have recent nicely-cancelled stamps that are very collectible/tradeable.
As a Canadian I would also note that we have to pay 15% tax on stamps over and above the face value. This wouldn't be apparent to US collectors as I don't think you have the same surcharge.
Eric
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Eric, that's correct. There is no sales tax charged on postage stamps purchased at the post office or postal outlets IF the stamps are bought at face value. We also do not have a national sales tax.
As for Texas, I know that the sales tax rules state that stamps bought at face value (can even be from a stamp dealer) are not subject to sales tax. I don't know how other states handle that as it is up to each state to determine how sales taxes are assessed.
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Auctions
If someone wins one or two inexpensive items and then thinks my shipping (65 cents in USA and 1.30 worldwide) makes the purchase too expensive..if you ask i will forgive the debt..but please do not bid on my auctions again. You are not doing me any favors if you only bid on one or two small items as you probably pay with paypal and i still have to pay postage. Thanks, phil.
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re: Auction sales...shipping is part of the transaction.
The big issue with approvals. As you look through books, you see a ten cent item you want, but have to remember it as you look through the remainder of the book (and other books if that seller has any) to see if you can make up a large enough order to be worthwhile for the postage etc involved.
That's one of the things that keeps me from participating as a buyer.
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re: Auction sales...shipping is part of the transaction.
Well said Phil and politely stated! I agree 1000%.
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11:01:57am
re: Auction sales...shipping is part of the transaction.
I've never welched or complained about the shipping but I have felt foolish with some of my small approval orders. I felt bad for the sellers actually. Didn't want to waste their time. I've actually beefed up a few orders with stamps I didn't really have to have to get the few I really wanted. SoR approval sellers have been super nice all the way around. Well, except for that one dude.
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12:22:42pm
re: Auction sales...shipping is part of the transaction.
When perusing the auctions, you can always add items to your "Watch List". When you are finished, you can then decide to buy the items, or wait to see if the seller will be adding more auction lots. Don't wait too long, as auction lots do close, and others can buy the items in your watch list. You can also leave the watch list alone and go to the seller's approval books (if the seller has any), get what you want there, and then bid on or buy the auction items from that seller that are in your watch list.
However, there is no excuse for a buyer to say that the shipping is too expensive. Buyers are expected to read all the terms of sale. When a buyer clicks on the "buy" button, the buyer acknowledges that the terms of sale were read and are understood. Whether a stamp is bought for 1 cent or $5000, a sale is a sale and the buyer is obligated to pay for it, including all shipping fees. Failure to do so will result in a buyer's suspension/expulsion from the sales platform.
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Approvals
re: Auction sales...shipping is part of the transaction.
Since I sell via approval books - what happens quite often is that I have a buyer that finds one or a few stamps they need from a book that totals less than $1.00. Since my flat rate shipping is normally $1.25 (US) $2.15 (international) - it does make sense for a buyer to pay more for the shipping than the cost of the stamps. I can hold them for awhile but in most cases I may not have anything else they need in the short term. I always offer them a choice - I can just cancel the sale or I try to give them a slight discount on the shipping fee. The problem is the cost of shipping is more than the postage - it is the manila stock card and glassine envelope and the shipping envelope that adds to the cost. All of that is the same whether it is 1 stamp or 100 stamps. I have one buyer who pays me in cash and they send me a self addressed stamped envelope - so I am able to offer a discounted shipping charge but that is something I can only do on a case by case basis. Since there are no fees here - I have no problem cancelling the sale when they realize what they selected does not make sense to pay the shipping fee. Steve
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Auctions
re: Auction sales...shipping is part of the transaction.
Michael is tougher than i am..but Stamp collecting is a hobby..if a buyer bases EVERYTHING on dollars and cents...he is missing out on much of the enjoyment !
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re: Auction sales...shipping is part of the transaction.
Since this has come up, what is the appropriate charge for shipping?
When I set up my approval books, I set the following values:
USA - 50 cents up to 4 covers, 80 cents 5 covers and up.
International - $1.25 up to 4 covers, $2.25 5 covers and up.
I thought that this being a friendly venue, I'd just charge the cost of a stamp. I was selling covers and weighed out that I could get 4 covers into one ounce, then 5 covers for the additional ounce rate. I figured that if someone ordered a bunch of stuff, I'd just eat the extra postage since there was an economy of my time in selling many vs having to package covers up one at a time.
I buy a lot of covers on eBay and other venues. I see postage costs across the board from Free Shipping up to $3 plus to ship a single cover. There have been times I really wanted the item and agreed to the higher shipping costs. What I've found in many cases is that these shippers way over pack items and actually are putting a lot of postage on the envelope!
For instance, I had been selling covers and postcards on eBay for years and never put more than a folded 8.5x11" 110 lb cardstock (Walmart 250 sheets $5).. the same stock I make my album pages from.
That in a number 10 envelope is sufficient for safe travels through the mails. I never had a complaint. I received a single cover the other day in a manila envelope with THREE layers of folded manila folder. This was taped on three sides. Then the clown had taped it to the inside of the envelope!
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03:16:12pm
re: Auction sales...shipping is part of the transaction.
I charge a flat rate. Often the quantity purchased causes the postage, other costs and fees to exceed that rate. Anything over the flat rate is at my cost.
What is the correct charge for shipping and handling? That is up to the seller. However, if the seller does not state the cost in the item description (this is required to do, by the way), then the seller can only charge actual postage cost and nothing else.
Phil, I have to be tough on the rules when they are broken. If I don't, then it will turn into a free-for-all with people doing what they want to do without any oversight. To use the selling platforms as a buyer or seller means to act responsibly and follow the rules. This is for the benefit of all users. Without the controls, the sales platforms would collapse.
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03:38:37pm
Auctions - Approvals
re: Auction sales...shipping is part of the transaction.
Sellers try to be fair.
A small minority of buyers think they should pay only for postage, never mind the cost of card, envelopes, time, shoe leather, waterproofs, cold remedies etc etc ad infinitum
Last week I had an ebay buyer ask me to reduce my shipping charge from Ist class post to 2nd class post. The difference 9 pence. The item was listed at 99pence. Thankfully somebody else bought the item.
Would you waste your time composing and sending a message asking for a 9 pence reduction. Never mind showing yourself to being a miserable skinflint.
Us Scots are supposed to be the meanest on the planet but that geezer last week "took the biscuit".
Buyers forget that the Seller has to pay a percentage to Paypal. With us its a MINIMUM of 27 pence, then over $3.60 its 5%. Then for everybody outside the "dollar zone" we have to be aware of exchange rates and paypal takes another cut.
Lets be honest its a matter of principle, the amounts we are talking about would not "Break the Bank at Monte Carlo"
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re: Auction sales...shipping is part of the transaction.
It might be a matter of principle but I will never buy from someone that charges me $2.00 to ship one stamp and then has the nerve to add .10 for each additional stamp, like I see on ebay and now beginning to see it in this very site. $2.00 will not make me any richer or poorer but...it is a matter of principle!
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Auctions
re: Auction sales...shipping is part of the transaction.
I shall do my best to adhere to the rules...i have been lucky in my life that things are not always black and white but can have shades of gray.
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07:56:56pm
re: Auction sales...shipping is part of the transaction.
"but can have shades of gray."
I hope that's not 50 shades of gray.
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08:05:19pm
re: Auction sales...shipping is part of the transaction.
Almost everyone follows the rules. Those who don't, most claim not knowing the rules (no excuse) or they misunderstood the process (they learn). For the very few others remaining, well, they find out what happens...
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re: Auction sales...shipping is part of the transaction.
welll done folks.... good topic with good discussion.
I am comfortable with Phil's forgiving nature.... it's part of what makes him so adorable. but I don't like buyers who put him in that position. Think before you bid.
I only charge exact postage for my shipping..... i've got tons of old envelopes and old glassines, and my time was already terribly discounted by posting the lots initially.. but that's me.
Please remember that not all sellers are Phil, and they don't have to extend you terms that weren't part of the original contract you signed when you bid. I've been in the uncomfortable position of enforcing bids for 25c. Please don't put the auctioneer in that boat, unless Phil's the skipper.
David
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re: Auction sales...shipping is part of the transaction.
Shipping is part of the cost of an auction/approval purchase. Failure to take that into account is simply irresponsible and/or rude.
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04:15:33pm
re: Auction sales...shipping is part of the transaction.
What I do not like is the additional charge for every extra stamp. Regarding the PayPal fees and exchange rate the beauty of the Eurozone is that bank transfers are free, at least with my bank.
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re: Auction sales...shipping is part of the transaction.
After reading the discussions on S&H charges, All the comments from sellers about time, packaging material, labor, etc, they forget that SOR is a free platform to sell; they are not paying a table fee.
I had hoped that SOR would be similar to taking your extra stamps to the club meeting sales table, and using the profit to buy other stamps for your collection.
I think SOR is great. Just a soft comment.
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11:01:25am
re: Auction sales...shipping is part of the transaction.
"I had hoped that SOR would be similar to taking your extra stamps to the club meeting sales table, and using the profit to buy other stamps for your collection."
Many do just that. Many also help each other out by sending stamps to each other in free trade.
"they forget that SOR is a free platform to sell; they are not paying a table fee."
Buyers like to ignore this, but sellers do pay a fee. PayPal charges, and so does the post office and so do the stores where the paper, envelopes, printer ink and such are purchased. It's not like driving down the street to the stamp club meeting. I often sell stamps, and the costs for me to mail the stamps to the buyers exceeds what the buyer paid for the stamps and the shipping fee. That's not good in a commercial sense as it is a recipe for bankruptcy, but then I'm not operating a business.
The "club" atmosphere here drives the selling prices down, causing marginal profits (when there are profits), and is one of the primary reasons why better material is generally not sold on this site. There also is the low buyer participation rate coupled with a high number of people selling making it a buyer's market.
People here persistently cry out for sellers to list better quality items, but then those same buyers are unwilling to pony up to the bar and pay the price. One can't expect to get Neiman Marcus quality at flea market prices.
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re: Auction sales...shipping is part of the transaction.
Very nice discussion. A couple years back someone made the comment that he would happily purchase a single stamp that he needs for .10 out of an approval book and pay 1.00 shipping. He fills a spot in his album, makes or reinforces a friendship, and probably gets a nice cover out of the deal. I've adopted that thinking, although I rarely stop at a single stamp!
-Steve
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re: Auction sales...shipping is part of the transaction.
"I had hoped that SOR would be similar to taking your extra stamps to the club meeting sales table, and using the profit to buy other stamps for your collection."
Nothing in life is free. I pay gas and tolls to get to my club meetings!
The pennies I've made selling on this site goes into my Paypal account and immediately gets gobbled up by my many purchases.
"A couple years back someone made the comment that he would happily purchase a single stamp that he needs for .10 out of an approval book and pay 1.00 shipping. "
I kind of do that. I've paid a few dollars each on eBay for covers for my New Jersey postmark collection... covers that I'd probably be able to pull out of the quarter box at a show. I do that for the convenience of shopping from my computer, a few bucks for the sellers time, postage and fees. And I like getting mail!
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re: Auction sales...shipping is part of the transaction.
"The pennies I've made selling on this site goes into my Paypal account and immediately gets gobbled up by my many purchases."
I'm with Tommy on this. Originally I just wanted to sell as much as possible of "The Hoard", especially with a very favourable exchange rate. And my agreement with my wife was not to put new money in my PayPal Account, only recirculate what goes in from sales.
But then I got obsessed with Germany and have spent almost every penny of my sales results.
And even though I try to sell as cheaply as possible I usually ask if people are really sure when they want an invoice on just a couple dollars of purchases, and only experienced one "complaint" about shipping charges on what was probably 1,000 stamps for 25c...
And I get some gratification from sending stamps for little or nothing to people who I know will appreciate them more than I, and I have received unconditional generosity back in kind. (We all know who those folks are!)
Stamporama is truly a great blessing in so many ways for all buyers, sellers, collectors, and others. I think we're all pretty lucky to be part of such a great gang!
Cheers, Dave.
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09:00:55am
re: Auction sales...shipping is part of the transaction.
One thing I always do when sending out approvals is frank the envelope with recent commemorative stamps. (from sheets rather than self-stick when available). I also walk the envelope to my local post office and have them hand cancel the stamps. My hope is that this at least helps defray the mailing cost a bit for the collector. Even if they don't collect Canada, they at least have recent nicely-cancelled stamps that are very collectible/tradeable.
As a Canadian I would also note that we have to pay 15% tax on stamps over and above the face value. This wouldn't be apparent to US collectors as I don't think you have the same surcharge.
Eric
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12:25:47pm
re: Auction sales...shipping is part of the transaction.
Eric, that's correct. There is no sales tax charged on postage stamps purchased at the post office or postal outlets IF the stamps are bought at face value. We also do not have a national sales tax.
As for Texas, I know that the sales tax rules state that stamps bought at face value (can even be from a stamp dealer) are not subject to sales tax. I don't know how other states handle that as it is up to each state to determine how sales taxes are assessed.
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