Discussion - Member to Member Sales - Research Center
Discussion - Member to Member Sales - Research Center
However, I have two Nicaragua telegraph stamps that were discolored by the sulphurization (often mistakenly called "oxidation) and my wife has a spray bottle of 3% hydrogen peroxide from CVS. Hmmmm. An opportunity to do a little experimenting.
I placed the first stamp face up in a watermark tray and sprayed lightly. In less than a minute, the original bright orange stamp color had been restored. I tried the second stamp, simply putting it face down in the few drops of liquid that remained in the tray. Again, in less than a minute, the stamp color had been restored.
I know others recommend rinsing afterward, but I'm not sure that is necessary since the hydrogen peroxide breads down into water and oxygen. So I didn't rinse. The stamps are dry and seem to be fine. If any of the experts here have thoughts about the value of rinsing, I'd like to hear from you before I proceed with any other stamps.
The bottom line is that the appearance of these two stamps is dramatically improved! This was easy!
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A fairly indepth look at the use of hydrogen peroxide:
http://www.stampsmarter.com/weiss/articles/RemovingOxidation.html
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This is all interesting stuff. I'm going to ask the lady of the house if she has any peroxide lying around.
If I have any success, I'll report back. If I don't report back, this will have happened:
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When using hydrogen peroxide, I always rinse the stamp with cold water.
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As there's no peroxide in the house, I'll have to buy a bottle. There seem to be three strengths: 3%, 6% and 9%.
Is the weakest solution adequate? If it is, would the other two have to be further diluted?
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Michael, I'm not a chemist (and never played one on TV). I don't understand what value the rinse has since the hydrogen peroxide breaks down to oxygen and water. Wouldn't it be the same principle as the the ammonia bath discussed in the other thread, where the ammonia gas dissipates and leaves behind only the water?
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Ningpo, I don't know about the need to dilute 6% or 9%, but my bottle of 3% did the trick in under a minute. 3% was adequate for the two stamps I tested!
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Even though I don't play one on TV, I am a chemist. What you're doing with this is oxidizing the sulfur component of a residue. Plain water is H2O (How do you do subscripts?). Hydrogen peroxide is H2O2 - same as water plus an extra oxygen atom, but chemically it's another animal entirely. When the peroxide breaks down, it generates oxygen and water. 2H2O2 -> 2H2O + O2. The O2 is elemental oxygen, and as the name suggests, it's one very good oxidizing agent. When pure oxygen meets up with sulphur, it oxidizes the sulphur - S + O2 -> SO2. The SO2 is a gas, and any excess O2 is a gas, and H2O is water. There's no reason to have to rinse a stamp after using hydrogen peroxide. It's essentially self-cleaning.
Another word of caution: If you're going to use hydrogen peroxide, do NOT have any other cleaners, elixirs, magic potions, etc. around at the time. Do NOT try to get any concentrations above what's available over the counter. High concentration hydrogen peroxide is a good rocket fuel, and it corrodes human skin.
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Thanks, dollhaus, for clarifying this. And, it's always good to remind us of the potential risks.
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Tom, I just always rinsed the stamps afterwards. With the information provided from our resident chemist, I guess I won't be rinsing stamps anymore!
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My preference is not to place hydrogen peroxide directly on the stamps.
I create a more or or less airtight container composed of two containers and a plate.
1. In the smaller container I place the stamp face down.
2. I place that container in the middle of the larger container (usually a bowl from the kitchen) into which has been poured a thin layer of store-bought hydrogen peroxide. 3. I then cover the large bowl with a plate to limit airflow.
The hydrogen peroxide solution will begin to evaporate. Keep in mind that water is a major constituent so one must take care. For used stamps I suspect treatments of up to 30 minutes at a time should suffice. For mint stamps you may want several intervals of a shorter period (say 10 minutes) allowing the stamp to dry out between intervals.
The process is not instantaneous, but 30 minutes should take care of light sulfuring. More intervals (with time for the stamp to dry in between) may be necessary for heavier cases.
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smauggie, this sounds like the home-made equivalent of the StampLift box that has been discussed in at least one other thread. Am I understanding this correctly?
Why is it important to place the stamp face down? I would have expected face up to be better.
Have you successfully used this procedure (roughly 10 minute periods of hydrogen peroxide treatment with drying intervals) without affecting the gum on mint stamps?
Thanks for explaining your procedure.
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Thomas,
Yes, I have successfully used this method. I use the same setup for sweating stamps as well. I can't guarantee pristine minty fresh never hinged condition using my method, though there may be very minimum disturbance in perhaps shorter intervals.
But then again, if the stamps are sulphuretted, having slightly disturbed gum with a de-sulphuretted stamp may be preferred.
Face down is essential for mint stamps as there may be enough humidity even after just 10 minutes to cause the stamp to adhere to the smaller container. I have used it for both mint and used stamps. Used stamps I suppose could be face up. In that case it is just a matter of my preference. The hydrogen peroxide vapor does not seem to have a problem working on a face-down stamp.
I hope I answered your questions. Please let me know if you have more.
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To add a bit of info to Smauggie's technique:
What he's doing there is using the O2 gas that the hydrogen peroxide gives off. When the HP is exposed to atmosphere, it starts to decompose to plain water and oxygen. In his apparatus, that creates an oxygen-rich atmosphere around the stamp in the small container, and the oxygen does its thing to the sulfur. It's slower than direct application, but it should work just as well.
Don't worry about getting the system absolutely airtight. You want a very small bit of outflow. If it's sealed airtight, the gasses inside will reach equilibrium and no more oxygen will be generated. You want some of the inside gasses to escape, carrying the SO2 from the sulfur out of the container and allowing more O2 from the HP to be liberated.
The caveat on this one is to keep any flame or spark away from the area used. You are going to have a very high localized oxygen level when you take the lid off the container, and anything flammable will catch fire more quickly and burn more fiercely in a high oxygen atmosphere. Don't light up that Cuban Cohiba cigar and then take the lid off. Your C13 Zeppelin may turn to ashes right before your eyes.
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"As there's no peroxide in the house, I'll have to buy a bottle. There seem to be three strengths: 3%, 6% and 9%."
Although I found a chemist (drug store) with a choice, I have now bought a bottle of the 3% strength. So I'll give it a whirl shortly.
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Here's the result of my very first attempt to use peroxide; here on a scruffy definitive that I thought was a sulphurised yellow. The 'before' image on the left gives an appearance of a bistre shade.
After treatment, there is a more yellowish tinge but not as much as I was expecting. However, this doesn't indicate the peroxide wasn't effective, but rather that the copy is actually a dull and deeper shade of yellow, which is not yet listed in the catalogues.
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Results will vary depending on (1) the exact shade and ink of the stamp, and (2) how far gone the sulphurization is.
Here are some before and after images, hydrogen peroxide applied via q-tip and then a water rinse.
BEFORE:
AFTER:
BEFORE:
AFTER:
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@ usrevenues,
Wow. Dramatic difference. It seems to have actually improved the color of the stamp. Looks not only brighter buy some how more orange.
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08:19:30pm
Wow! Big difference.
I'd be scared to try it on my older stamps.
Has anyone tried it on Australian States? I've got some New South Wales and others that I'd like to see clean up but I'm afraid to try - inks, paper, etc.
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Nice pair of double transfers as well, Dan!!!
Randy
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""Here are some before and after images, hydrogen peroxide applied via q-tip and then a water rinse.""
Dan, why did you choose the Q-tip approach for your revenue stamps? Did you manage to avoid soaking the paper with this approach, or was that even a consideration?
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"Nice pair of double transfers as well, Dan!!!"
Are these listed varieties? Can someone explain how such a double transfer seems just to have occurred on the 'Bank Transfer' part of the printing?
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Clive,
Yes, these are listed varieties.
Many first, second and third issue US revenues have plate varieties;
see the following link to some very good info regarding these -
http://www.revenue-collector.com/platevarieties.shtml
Quite a fun and interesting area to collect!
Randy
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Thanks for the link Randy.
I'm still discombobulated. Were those revenues shown printed from more than one plate (ie. vignette and value)?
I'm just trying to get my head round how some of these bizarre varieties occurred. There's one listed as R13c Complete Double Transfer: Very rare. Doubling throughout design, from scrollwork to all text, to portrait. Were it not for the fact that the doubling is in different directions, this could be mistaken for a double impression.
Que?
I need to lie down.
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Was perusing an older book earlier, "Stamp Collecting by Stanley Phillips" 4th edition published just around end of WW1.
In the chapter on colours and their names was the following:-
Stamps printed in vermilion or orange inks of a certain type, also have this peculiarity of turning brown or black in course of time. Collectors apply the term "oxydised" (probably inaccurately) to such stamps. They will revert to their original hues if brushed with peroxide of hydrogen.
And here we are still using same to brighten our stamps.
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01:28:29am
Finally got to sorting some old stamps today and found some that look like they could use this method.
Funny, I put this article together in the Rambler, but I haven't tried it yet - maybe next weekend.
I'm a bit apprehensive - I've never done any "experiments" on any of my stamps before so I just need to work on the guts to actually do them.
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Hydrogen peroxide does not damage stamps. However, since water is the main ingredient, don't use it on stamps printed with aniline (water soluble) inks.
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01:45:06am
Thanks for the reminder Michael.
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I just gave an Australian Scott #C1 an ammonia bath to get rid of some light toning. It came out nice.
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I'm in the mood to experiment, having followed "The End of Foxing" thread in recent days, I was ready to tackle foxing but don't have my clear ammonia yet to experiment with.
However, I have two Nicaragua telegraph stamps that were discolored by the sulphurization (often mistakenly called "oxidation) and my wife has a spray bottle of 3% hydrogen peroxide from CVS. Hmmmm. An opportunity to do a little experimenting.
I placed the first stamp face up in a watermark tray and sprayed lightly. In less than a minute, the original bright orange stamp color had been restored. I tried the second stamp, simply putting it face down in the few drops of liquid that remained in the tray. Again, in less than a minute, the stamp color had been restored.
I know others recommend rinsing afterward, but I'm not sure that is necessary since the hydrogen peroxide breads down into water and oxygen. So I didn't rinse. The stamps are dry and seem to be fine. If any of the experts here have thoughts about the value of rinsing, I'd like to hear from you before I proceed with any other stamps.
The bottom line is that the appearance of these two stamps is dramatically improved! This was easy!
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re: Using hydrogen peroxide to deal with sulphurization of stamp ink
A fairly indepth look at the use of hydrogen peroxide:
http://www.stampsmarter.com/weiss/articles/RemovingOxidation.html
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re: Using hydrogen peroxide to deal with sulphurization of stamp ink
This is all interesting stuff. I'm going to ask the lady of the house if she has any peroxide lying around.
If I have any success, I'll report back. If I don't report back, this will have happened:
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05:02:34pm
re: Using hydrogen peroxide to deal with sulphurization of stamp ink
When using hydrogen peroxide, I always rinse the stamp with cold water.
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re: Using hydrogen peroxide to deal with sulphurization of stamp ink
As there's no peroxide in the house, I'll have to buy a bottle. There seem to be three strengths: 3%, 6% and 9%.
Is the weakest solution adequate? If it is, would the other two have to be further diluted?
Login to Like
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re: Using hydrogen peroxide to deal with sulphurization of stamp ink
Michael, I'm not a chemist (and never played one on TV). I don't understand what value the rinse has since the hydrogen peroxide breaks down to oxygen and water. Wouldn't it be the same principle as the the ammonia bath discussed in the other thread, where the ammonia gas dissipates and leaves behind only the water?
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re: Using hydrogen peroxide to deal with sulphurization of stamp ink
Ningpo, I don't know about the need to dilute 6% or 9%, but my bottle of 3% did the trick in under a minute. 3% was adequate for the two stamps I tested!
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09:34:12pm
re: Using hydrogen peroxide to deal with sulphurization of stamp ink
Even though I don't play one on TV, I am a chemist. What you're doing with this is oxidizing the sulfur component of a residue. Plain water is H2O (How do you do subscripts?). Hydrogen peroxide is H2O2 - same as water plus an extra oxygen atom, but chemically it's another animal entirely. When the peroxide breaks down, it generates oxygen and water. 2H2O2 -> 2H2O + O2. The O2 is elemental oxygen, and as the name suggests, it's one very good oxidizing agent. When pure oxygen meets up with sulphur, it oxidizes the sulphur - S + O2 -> SO2. The SO2 is a gas, and any excess O2 is a gas, and H2O is water. There's no reason to have to rinse a stamp after using hydrogen peroxide. It's essentially self-cleaning.
Another word of caution: If you're going to use hydrogen peroxide, do NOT have any other cleaners, elixirs, magic potions, etc. around at the time. Do NOT try to get any concentrations above what's available over the counter. High concentration hydrogen peroxide is a good rocket fuel, and it corrodes human skin.
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re: Using hydrogen peroxide to deal with sulphurization of stamp ink
Thanks, dollhaus, for clarifying this. And, it's always good to remind us of the potential risks.
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12:12:12am
re: Using hydrogen peroxide to deal with sulphurization of stamp ink
Tom, I just always rinsed the stamps afterwards. With the information provided from our resident chemist, I guess I won't be rinsing stamps anymore!
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re: Using hydrogen peroxide to deal with sulphurization of stamp ink
My preference is not to place hydrogen peroxide directly on the stamps.
I create a more or or less airtight container composed of two containers and a plate.
1. In the smaller container I place the stamp face down.
2. I place that container in the middle of the larger container (usually a bowl from the kitchen) into which has been poured a thin layer of store-bought hydrogen peroxide. 3. I then cover the large bowl with a plate to limit airflow.
The hydrogen peroxide solution will begin to evaporate. Keep in mind that water is a major constituent so one must take care. For used stamps I suspect treatments of up to 30 minutes at a time should suffice. For mint stamps you may want several intervals of a shorter period (say 10 minutes) allowing the stamp to dry out between intervals.
The process is not instantaneous, but 30 minutes should take care of light sulfuring. More intervals (with time for the stamp to dry in between) may be necessary for heavier cases.
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re: Using hydrogen peroxide to deal with sulphurization of stamp ink
smauggie, this sounds like the home-made equivalent of the StampLift box that has been discussed in at least one other thread. Am I understanding this correctly?
Why is it important to place the stamp face down? I would have expected face up to be better.
Have you successfully used this procedure (roughly 10 minute periods of hydrogen peroxide treatment with drying intervals) without affecting the gum on mint stamps?
Thanks for explaining your procedure.
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re: Using hydrogen peroxide to deal with sulphurization of stamp ink
Thomas,
Yes, I have successfully used this method. I use the same setup for sweating stamps as well. I can't guarantee pristine minty fresh never hinged condition using my method, though there may be very minimum disturbance in perhaps shorter intervals.
But then again, if the stamps are sulphuretted, having slightly disturbed gum with a de-sulphuretted stamp may be preferred.
Face down is essential for mint stamps as there may be enough humidity even after just 10 minutes to cause the stamp to adhere to the smaller container. I have used it for both mint and used stamps. Used stamps I suppose could be face up. In that case it is just a matter of my preference. The hydrogen peroxide vapor does not seem to have a problem working on a face-down stamp.
I hope I answered your questions. Please let me know if you have more.
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02:11:40pm
re: Using hydrogen peroxide to deal with sulphurization of stamp ink
To add a bit of info to Smauggie's technique:
What he's doing there is using the O2 gas that the hydrogen peroxide gives off. When the HP is exposed to atmosphere, it starts to decompose to plain water and oxygen. In his apparatus, that creates an oxygen-rich atmosphere around the stamp in the small container, and the oxygen does its thing to the sulfur. It's slower than direct application, but it should work just as well.
Don't worry about getting the system absolutely airtight. You want a very small bit of outflow. If it's sealed airtight, the gasses inside will reach equilibrium and no more oxygen will be generated. You want some of the inside gasses to escape, carrying the SO2 from the sulfur out of the container and allowing more O2 from the HP to be liberated.
The caveat on this one is to keep any flame or spark away from the area used. You are going to have a very high localized oxygen level when you take the lid off the container, and anything flammable will catch fire more quickly and burn more fiercely in a high oxygen atmosphere. Don't light up that Cuban Cohiba cigar and then take the lid off. Your C13 Zeppelin may turn to ashes right before your eyes.
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re: Using hydrogen peroxide to deal with sulphurization of stamp ink
"As there's no peroxide in the house, I'll have to buy a bottle. There seem to be three strengths: 3%, 6% and 9%."
Although I found a chemist (drug store) with a choice, I have now bought a bottle of the 3% strength. So I'll give it a whirl shortly.
Login to Like
this post
re: Using hydrogen peroxide to deal with sulphurization of stamp ink
Here's the result of my very first attempt to use peroxide; here on a scruffy definitive that I thought was a sulphurised yellow. The 'before' image on the left gives an appearance of a bistre shade.
After treatment, there is a more yellowish tinge but not as much as I was expecting. However, this doesn't indicate the peroxide wasn't effective, but rather that the copy is actually a dull and deeper shade of yellow, which is not yet listed in the catalogues.
Login to Like
this post
re: Using hydrogen peroxide to deal with sulphurization of stamp ink
Results will vary depending on (1) the exact shade and ink of the stamp, and (2) how far gone the sulphurization is.
Here are some before and after images, hydrogen peroxide applied via q-tip and then a water rinse.
BEFORE:
AFTER:
BEFORE:
AFTER:
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08:10:41pm
re: Using hydrogen peroxide to deal with sulphurization of stamp ink
@ usrevenues,
Wow. Dramatic difference. It seems to have actually improved the color of the stamp. Looks not only brighter buy some how more orange.
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28 Nov 2016
08:19:30pm
re: Using hydrogen peroxide to deal with sulphurization of stamp ink
Wow! Big difference.
I'd be scared to try it on my older stamps.
Has anyone tried it on Australian States? I've got some New South Wales and others that I'd like to see clean up but I'm afraid to try - inks, paper, etc.
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re: Using hydrogen peroxide to deal with sulphurization of stamp ink
Nice pair of double transfers as well, Dan!!!
Randy
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re: Using hydrogen peroxide to deal with sulphurization of stamp ink
""Here are some before and after images, hydrogen peroxide applied via q-tip and then a water rinse.""
Dan, why did you choose the Q-tip approach for your revenue stamps? Did you manage to avoid soaking the paper with this approach, or was that even a consideration?
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re: Using hydrogen peroxide to deal with sulphurization of stamp ink
"Nice pair of double transfers as well, Dan!!!"
Are these listed varieties? Can someone explain how such a double transfer seems just to have occurred on the 'Bank Transfer' part of the printing?
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re: Using hydrogen peroxide to deal with sulphurization of stamp ink
Clive,
Yes, these are listed varieties.
Many first, second and third issue US revenues have plate varieties;
see the following link to some very good info regarding these -
http://www.revenue-collector.com/platevarieties.shtml
Quite a fun and interesting area to collect!
Randy
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re: Using hydrogen peroxide to deal with sulphurization of stamp ink
Thanks for the link Randy.
I'm still discombobulated. Were those revenues shown printed from more than one plate (ie. vignette and value)?
I'm just trying to get my head round how some of these bizarre varieties occurred. There's one listed as R13c Complete Double Transfer: Very rare. Doubling throughout design, from scrollwork to all text, to portrait. Were it not for the fact that the doubling is in different directions, this could be mistaken for a double impression.
Que?
I need to lie down.
Login to Like
this post
re: Using hydrogen peroxide to deal with sulphurization of stamp ink
Was perusing an older book earlier, "Stamp Collecting by Stanley Phillips" 4th edition published just around end of WW1.
In the chapter on colours and their names was the following:-
Stamps printed in vermilion or orange inks of a certain type, also have this peculiarity of turning brown or black in course of time. Collectors apply the term "oxydised" (probably inaccurately) to such stamps. They will revert to their original hues if brushed with peroxide of hydrogen.
And here we are still using same to brighten our stamps.
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A Service Dog gives a person with a disability independence. Never approach, distract or pet a working dog, especially when (s)he is in harness. Never be afraid to ask questions to the handler (parent).
23 Apr 2017
01:28:29am
re: Using hydrogen peroxide to deal with sulphurization of stamp ink
Finally got to sorting some old stamps today and found some that look like they could use this method.
Funny, I put this article together in the Rambler, but I haven't tried it yet - maybe next weekend.
I'm a bit apprehensive - I've never done any "experiments" on any of my stamps before so I just need to work on the guts to actually do them.
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01:33:58am
re: Using hydrogen peroxide to deal with sulphurization of stamp ink
Hydrogen peroxide does not damage stamps. However, since water is the main ingredient, don't use it on stamps printed with aniline (water soluble) inks.
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A Service Dog gives a person with a disability independence. Never approach, distract or pet a working dog, especially when (s)he is in harness. Never be afraid to ask questions to the handler (parent).
23 Apr 2017
01:45:06am
re: Using hydrogen peroxide to deal with sulphurization of stamp ink
Thanks for the reminder Michael.
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02:16:58am
re: Using hydrogen peroxide to deal with sulphurization of stamp ink
I just gave an Australian Scott #C1 an ammonia bath to get rid of some light toning. It came out nice.
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