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Discussion - Member to Member Sales - Research Center
The honourary head of the Royal Mews at Buckingham Palace is known as the Master of the Horse.
Today the Master of the Horse is mainly a ceremonial office and seldom is seen apart from on state occasions, and particularly when the Sovereign is mounted. Such events as the State Opening of Parliament and Trooping the Colour will see the Master of the Horse in attendance.
The Crown Equerry has the day-to-day administration of the Royal Mews, which affords transport for the Sovereign, either by cars or horse-drawn carriage.
This position has been held since the 14th century and is considered the third Great Officer of the Household after the Lord Chamberlain and the Lord Steward.
Going back centuries ago, the Master of the Horse was once responsible for provisions of horse for war and travel, of course, is no longer the case.
The office of Master of the Horse was at one time politically importance and influence to the monarch. The importance and influence began to decline in the early 18th century. In the 19th century, the three offices (Lord Chamberlain, Lord Steward and Master of the Horse) were considered political and switched during changes in the government.
A restructuring took place in 1924 after the Royal Household conducted a review. The three offices then became permanent non-political appointments.
The current Master of the Horse is the Lord Vestey. Samuel George Armstrong Vestey, 3rd Baron Vestey, became Master of the Horse in 1999. He was appointed Knight Commander of the Royal Victorian Order (KCVO) in the 2009 Birthday Honours.
And here is Lord Vestey astride his 'company car':
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I love this stuff... Always loved Brit history. So, the position of Master of the Horse is held by Lord Vestey. Since he has the title of "Lord" is he not a "nobleman"?
Seems like the caretaker of the king's horse would have been a commoner. I always envisioned the king and some of his inner circle come riding in, he dismounts and throws the reins to a stable boy.
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The whole subject of Royal and noble ranking is somewhat confusing. As Lord Vestey is actually 3rd Baron Vestey, he is a 'Peer of the Realm' (member of the high aristocracy); thus a nobleman.
On appointment of the KCVO -Knight Commander of the (Royal) Victorian Order- the recipient is given a knighthood. I don't know what the significance of the title Lord is, in his particular case.
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Yes, in the UK barons are usually referred to with the title "lord" rather than "baron".
It's usual practice also to refer to most peers of higher rank than baron as "lord" rather than spelling out the formal title, and these are all traditionally addressed as "My Lord".
This was very much the case in the nineteenth century when many leading politicians were lords. For example, Prime Ministers "Lord Melbourne" and "Lord Palmerston", were both viscounts.
However, dukes, the highest rank of the peerage, are usually called by their title, "Duke of ..." and traditionally are addressed as "Your Grace".
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The Vesteys are a rich family by British standards with their money made in shipping and meat processing.
Lord Vestey is chairman of the Vestey Group, and he and his cousin have an estimated wealth of around 1.2 billion pounds.
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Thanks Nigel for putting more flesh on the bones.
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You might be further interested to know that Samuel Vestey's great grandmother has appeared on several stamps. The 3rd Baron Vestey's mother was born Pamela Armstrong, the granddaughter of Dame Nellie Melba (Australian operatic soprano). I noticed just last week that Monaco has recently issued a stamp honoring Nellie Melba.
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That's a neat fact! 
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06:34:22pm
"Where did you get that hat?
Where did you get that tile?
Isn't it a nobby one,
And just the proper style?
I should like to have one
Just the same as that!"
Where'er I go, they shout "Hello!
Where did you get that hat?""
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"Baron" is the lowest rank of hereditary British peerage and so he is not "old aristocracy". As he is only the third baron I would suggest that the family was only enobled in the mid to late nineteenth century at the earliest, and would have been created by Queen Victoria.
The family was probably part of the wealthy landowning class for some time prior to this and the title would have been granted in view of continual public service and good works ( with perhaps overtones of political patronage).
Most of the other classes of peerage have much longer pedigrees, some going back to William the Conqueror in 1066.
It is entirely possible of course that Baron Vestey is descended from an older more senior peerage , by the rule of primogeniture the title always descends to the eldest son, and so younger sons ( and daughters ) have simply the honorific title ( The Honourable ), and taking the family tree back there may be an "Honourable" son/daughter of another peerage in his ancestry.
Being a Peer of the Realm is a bit of a double-edged sword. Under electoral Law they ( along with "lunatics") are disenfranchised even though they sit in the House Of Lords,and as such are theoretically part of Government, although in practice active members of the House of Lords are almost all political appointees.
It is all very quaint, and quite harmless ( despite protestations of the more radical members of the left who are convinced that there is some secret society of aristocrats running the country). Baron Vestey is obviously quite wealthy, but the majority of the landed gentry are asset rich but cash "only" comfortable - which is why many of them have to open their historic houses to public viewing to keep them in good repair.
Anybody wth a copy of "Burke's Peerage" could no doubt cast further light if I have not already bored you to death !
Malcolm
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Here are two types of the 'Master of the Horse' cachet, one stating Windsor and the other S.W1., on covers addressed to Ford Motor Company. Both have the royal cypher in red, on the reverse. At that time, the position was held by David Anthony Thomas Fane, 15th Earl of Westmorland GCVO.
The honourary head of the Royal Mews at Buckingham Palace is known as the Master of the Horse.
Today the Master of the Horse is mainly a ceremonial office and seldom is seen apart from on state occasions, and particularly when the Sovereign is mounted. Such events as the State Opening of Parliament and Trooping the Colour will see the Master of the Horse in attendance.
The Crown Equerry has the day-to-day administration of the Royal Mews, which affords transport for the Sovereign, either by cars or horse-drawn carriage.
This position has been held since the 14th century and is considered the third Great Officer of the Household after the Lord Chamberlain and the Lord Steward.
Going back centuries ago, the Master of the Horse was once responsible for provisions of horse for war and travel, of course, is no longer the case.
The office of Master of the Horse was at one time politically importance and influence to the monarch. The importance and influence began to decline in the early 18th century. In the 19th century, the three offices (Lord Chamberlain, Lord Steward and Master of the Horse) were considered political and switched during changes in the government.
A restructuring took place in 1924 after the Royal Household conducted a review. The three offices then became permanent non-political appointments.
The current Master of the Horse is the Lord Vestey. Samuel George Armstrong Vestey, 3rd Baron Vestey, became Master of the Horse in 1999. He was appointed Knight Commander of the Royal Victorian Order (KCVO) in the 2009 Birthday Honours.
And here is Lord Vestey astride his 'company car':
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09:20:36am
re: A horse, a horse, my Kingdom for a horse
I love this stuff... Always loved Brit history. So, the position of Master of the Horse is held by Lord Vestey. Since he has the title of "Lord" is he not a "nobleman"?
Seems like the caretaker of the king's horse would have been a commoner. I always envisioned the king and some of his inner circle come riding in, he dismounts and throws the reins to a stable boy.
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re: A horse, a horse, my Kingdom for a horse
The whole subject of Royal and noble ranking is somewhat confusing. As Lord Vestey is actually 3rd Baron Vestey, he is a 'Peer of the Realm' (member of the high aristocracy); thus a nobleman.
On appointment of the KCVO -Knight Commander of the (Royal) Victorian Order- the recipient is given a knighthood. I don't know what the significance of the title Lord is, in his particular case.
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re: A horse, a horse, my Kingdom for a horse
Yes, in the UK barons are usually referred to with the title "lord" rather than "baron".
It's usual practice also to refer to most peers of higher rank than baron as "lord" rather than spelling out the formal title, and these are all traditionally addressed as "My Lord".
This was very much the case in the nineteenth century when many leading politicians were lords. For example, Prime Ministers "Lord Melbourne" and "Lord Palmerston", were both viscounts.
However, dukes, the highest rank of the peerage, are usually called by their title, "Duke of ..." and traditionally are addressed as "Your Grace".
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re: A horse, a horse, my Kingdom for a horse
The Vesteys are a rich family by British standards with their money made in shipping and meat processing.
Lord Vestey is chairman of the Vestey Group, and he and his cousin have an estimated wealth of around 1.2 billion pounds.
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re: A horse, a horse, my Kingdom for a horse
Thanks Nigel for putting more flesh on the bones.
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07:57:46am
re: A horse, a horse, my Kingdom for a horse
You might be further interested to know that Samuel Vestey's great grandmother has appeared on several stamps. The 3rd Baron Vestey's mother was born Pamela Armstrong, the granddaughter of Dame Nellie Melba (Australian operatic soprano). I noticed just last week that Monaco has recently issued a stamp honoring Nellie Melba.
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re: A horse, a horse, my Kingdom for a horse
That's a neat fact!
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Silence in the face of adversity is the father of complicity and collusion, the first cousins of conspiracy..
16 Oct 2016
06:34:22pm
re: A horse, a horse, my Kingdom for a horse
"Where did you get that hat?
Where did you get that tile?
Isn't it a nobby one,
And just the proper style?
I should like to have one
Just the same as that!"
Where'er I go, they shout "Hello!
Where did you get that hat?""
Login to Like
this post
12:43:51pm
re: A horse, a horse, my Kingdom for a horse
"Baron" is the lowest rank of hereditary British peerage and so he is not "old aristocracy". As he is only the third baron I would suggest that the family was only enobled in the mid to late nineteenth century at the earliest, and would have been created by Queen Victoria.
The family was probably part of the wealthy landowning class for some time prior to this and the title would have been granted in view of continual public service and good works ( with perhaps overtones of political patronage).
Most of the other classes of peerage have much longer pedigrees, some going back to William the Conqueror in 1066.
It is entirely possible of course that Baron Vestey is descended from an older more senior peerage , by the rule of primogeniture the title always descends to the eldest son, and so younger sons ( and daughters ) have simply the honorific title ( The Honourable ), and taking the family tree back there may be an "Honourable" son/daughter of another peerage in his ancestry.
Being a Peer of the Realm is a bit of a double-edged sword. Under electoral Law they ( along with "lunatics") are disenfranchised even though they sit in the House Of Lords,and as such are theoretically part of Government, although in practice active members of the House of Lords are almost all political appointees.
It is all very quaint, and quite harmless ( despite protestations of the more radical members of the left who are convinced that there is some secret society of aristocrats running the country). Baron Vestey is obviously quite wealthy, but the majority of the landed gentry are asset rich but cash "only" comfortable - which is why many of them have to open their historic houses to public viewing to keep them in good repair.
Anybody wth a copy of "Burke's Peerage" could no doubt cast further light if I have not already bored you to death !
Malcolm
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