Discussion - Member to Member Sales - Research Center
Discussion - Member to Member Sales - Research Center
Say you are looking for a stamp, and you find it but, it has been misidentified by a seller. Say it is a very expensive stamp, and the seller lists it for a very low price. (could have been a wrong id issue, or a typo when entering the price..or any other reason).
Question 1: What would you do?
Now to make it a bit more complex, here is a variation.
Question 2: The seller, known indirectly to you, is a millionaire. What would you do?
Or
Question 3: The seller, known indirectly to you, is selling his stamps to pay for his sick mother's operation...or to send his kids to college.
Question 4: Now in the same vein, what is a very inexpensive stamp is listed at a very high price, for what ever reason... Would you seek to have the price corrected?
Curious....
rrr...
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I have probably sent out more than a dozen "wrong price" notifications over the years - the last one three weeks ago (30 cents which should have been thirty dollars).
My answer is the same for questions 1, 2 and 3 - what's right is right and others have notified me of a few errors over the years - it's all about karma.
As to question 4 I guess I would look over his listings to determine if it was an error or if all of his prices were ridiculous - one dealer on Hipstamps has an apparent minimum price of a dollar on all MNH stamps - yes, including all those scrap postage US 3 and 4 cent issues. No point in contacting him.
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I try to do the right thing. Let the seller know he may have made a mistake. Sometimes it is hard to tell from just a scan if the item is misidentified. It doesn't matter how much money the seller has, none of my business. Pretty simple question, just try to do the right thing. I don't bother to let a seller know if he has an item way over priced, the market will tell him it is too high by not getting a buyer.
Vince
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I feel slightly different. We hobbyists always enjoy a certain "cherrypicker" aspect to our hobby. Part of the fun of this entire endeavor of collecting is the random chance that a stamp will be misidentified or we'll find that hidden, overlooked gem in the pile of otherwise dusty schwag.
If it's a fellow club member, I'm telling them about the mis-identification because, to me, when you enter into that "club relationship" with people there's a tacit understanding that we go above and beyond the simple rules of fair business and we set the bar a little higher to not only "be fair" in our dealings with each other but to also "be good".
-Ernie
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I'm with Ernie.
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And a simple variation on the question:
5. You work for a reputable stamp company and your job is to purchase collections.
A seller offers you a collection, and in it is a misidentified stamp, that is worth a mint vs peanuts. (Say a US C3a instead of C3..to take an extreme case).
Now what do you do?
rrr...
I actually thought of another variation:
6. You are selling stamps to the above reputable stamp company, and in the lot you are selling, known to you (or you may just be suspicious) but not obvious to anyone except the most highly sophisticated experts, is a counterfeit stamp instead of the one cataloging for a lot of money. You are selling the collection for a friend in need.
Now what do you do?
rrr...
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The variations can be endless, we might forget which ones we are answering to !! 
Methinks someone is a little bored !!
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I agree with Londonbus1, how many more variations will there be. Maybe the question you are really asking is "how comfortable are you with getting over on someone who clearly made a mistake in identifying and pricing their stamp?"
My comfort level/conscious lets me know right away. It's really easy to try to do the right thing and treat people the way you want to be treated.
Vince
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Another couple variations:
1) The seller is Donald Trump ... or Hilary Clinton.
2) The seller thought it was listed in US$ but buyers see it listed in the 30% devalued CA$.
3A) The seller is you and the buyer is me.
3B) The seller is "yo mama".
4) The seller is actually an investigative reporter for the New York Times doing a feature on stamp buyers who will complain to the Supreme Court if there is an undisclosed blemish found under a microscopic view and demand twice their money back under threat of posting a bad review - while at the same time trolling to find innocent typos or tyros they can exploit with nary a polite word uttered.
As I've always told my kids - all other outlandish "what-ifs" are nice over a couple dozen single malts, but bottom line always think of #3 and #4 and your explanation to your mom about why you did what you did...
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That reminds me - I've got to check my US Divestiture Auction and see if grrrrrrrrrraphy has any bids in...
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Dave,
You just changed the whole meaning of this thread. If it was Donald or Hillary I would punch them in the throat and just take the stamp then have a few single malts.
Vince
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My father always said "if you dont know the right thing to do....just do the right thing"
It is what I believe and it is what I have told my sons.
The advice sounds contradictory but of course it is very clear......just do the right thing.
There is often some implied "win some, lose some" in all transactions. But notwithstanding that we all have subjective views on "right and wrong", there is an objective "right and wrong".
To answer the question what would I do, I am pretty sure that I would tell the vendor but I hope that the vendor would be so impressed by my honesty that I would reach a compromise with the vendor and we would both emerge as winners.
Yet I do hold a grudge against a Dealer who ripped me off thirty odd years ago. And I think thats normal. All stamp collectors conversations revolve around good and bad experiences we have had with the same dealers. And just recently I saw my "Bad Dealer" boast about ripping off somebody else.
So yes ....if I ever got a chance to blind-side that "Bad Dealer", I would take it. I would chalk it up as a victory for the "good guys" and Karma.
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Hi Everyone;
Edited by Tuskie: 
I'm sorry for this reply....I should never talk to humans after more than one beer!!! 
Just slinkin' out....
TuskenRaider
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Yo T'Raider...
I totally understand where you're coming from but I just think the stamp trade is different. I know there'll be 7 people jump in a vehemently disagree but the buying and selling of collectible stamps has an inherent speculative nature to it... we expect, no wait, we DEMAND that there be some level of Las Vegas to the entire enterprise. We buy "mystery lots" eagerly convincing ourselves that there will be something nice in there. We fly speck looking for some Uber rare variety that will be named after us, we scour catalogs seeing if our favorite country is going up or down. Everyone who has been doing this for any amount of time loves collecting and enjoying the stamps but he or she also loves the hunt. Grabbing that great stamp at an even better price. If you get something that is mislabeled. ..it's kind of part of the game. Don't hate the player, hate the game!
-Ernie
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It might be interesting to go over a very similar thread started by Guthrum a while back: An Ethical Dilemma
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Thanks Clive ... I just read my post on the other thread. I'm pleased to see I was consistent hahahah!
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I think this thread is about a seller that misidentified an expensive stamp and is selling it for an extremely low price. I don't think the original post was about buying lots or buying low value stamps on ebay. Part of the fun in buying large lots is the chance I might find something valuable but since my collecting has become more specialized I stay away from large lots now, I just don't have the time to work on them.
Vince
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How would you feel if they didn't tell you and bought the stamp at a low price and later you found that it was a rare gem.
Do unto other as you would wish them to do to you. I would tell them that it might be more valuable and that you think they should have a look at it again.
As I get older, I find it harder and harder to identify stamps. I certainly hope one of you would let me know if you see one on my approval list that could be very valuable.
Just be nice to everyone and this whole world just might change to be better.
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To me this is simple. I have bought several misidentified stamps. I intentionally look for them. One of the most common is a rare plate number that has a minor listing. The pedestrian stamp is $1 and the rare plate number is $10. Happens all the time. I have no obligation to educate the seller.
If it's a VERY expensive mistake, I don't believe it. Period. I have seen WAY too many situations where a seller claims to have found some dusty collection that hasn't seen the light of day for over 50 years and there it is. That rarity you love to find, like a US 356 10c Washington coil, CV $3250. Without a cert I assume it's a cut down 338 ($2 used) with a cleaned cancel and maybe a regum.
So I believe your hypothetical is fantasy. The reality is that we all need to be alert to the scams that are actively run to make us think we are in one of those fantasies.
Lars
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I think it depends on the situation and its a range of situations to me. On one end, find a gem in a mystery lot, kiloware, boxed lot etc., then great. You did the work so you deserve the reward.
Maybe less obvious, buy a collection from a large dealer or an auction house, and find a gem there. Sure, its legit to keep. Buying those collections can be risky.
By a single or misidentified set from a big dealer, like NY Stamps or from an Auction house. Hmm. I don't think I'd sweat too much here.
Buy from a fellow collector or an average Joe that doesn't know or probably couldn't know what they have. If worth a significant amount, whatever that is, I think the right thing to do is fork over some extra funds to the poor sod. Read "Nassau Street" by Herman Herst Jr. if you need a decent role model to follow.
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"Buy from a fellow collector or an average Joe that doesn't know or probably couldn't know what they have. If worth a significant amount, whatever that is, I think the right thing to do is fork over some extra funds to the poor sod."
I don't agree. The seller had a chance to go through a knowledgeable dealer but chose to do it himself. No different than a house seller that doesn't want to pay a real estate agent commission. Some times that works out, sometimes not so much. If someone is out of their league, it's not my job to educate them.
However, in a club setting or a situation where you are advising the seller, then it is absolutely your duty to inform the seller of their error. If I know you, I will point out your error. If you're selling anonymously on eBay, I have zero obligation to point out your mistake.
If you won an auction at an estate sale and knew the lot was worth a lot more than your final bid, would you offer to pay more?
Lars
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"... If you won an auction at an estate sale and knew the lot was worth a lot more than your final bid, would you offer to pay more? ..."
Three possibilities:
1) A lot is worth more than you are paying ... which is why you bought it
2) A lot is worth less than you are paying ... which is why you think that the world owes you #1
3) A lot is worth exactly what you are paying ... fuggedaboudit
Cheers,
/s/ ikeyPikey
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I think the estate sale is the key part of the question. If I were to find a load of rarities at bargain prices sold by a clueless widow or close family member, I would feel obligated to inform them of the value of the items and possibly offer more than they want. For heathen me, I would feel it was obligatory to cut a fair deal. "What goes around, comes around."
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02:05:11am
Both this thread and the one referred to by Ningpo "An Ethical Dilemma" fall into the category of Situational Ethics. A tricky area for many people who are usually quite adept at discovering justification for their action. When probed their decisions becomes tangled and contradictory as circumstances are changed. Often they get angry.
Those, in either thread who say "What is right, is right and what is not right does not magically become right by circumstances or the seller's perceived station in life or society. seldom consider such contrived dilemmas difficult to deal with.
I taught my children a foolproof way to determine the correctness of a choice.
"First get a long legal sized yellow pad. Draw a line across the top and a second line down through the center. Above the left side write "yes" and the right side "no". Then list all the reasons on the side they fall on.
Consider which side has the overwhelming preponderance of reasons. Then," (and this is the key.)" Follow your gut. because honest people will feel bad about choosing something not right and happy when they do the right thing..."
I've never felt good about doing the wrong thing.
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This is a question that has been on my mind and I am curious how others feel about it.
Say you are looking for a stamp, and you find it but, it has been misidentified by a seller. Say it is a very expensive stamp, and the seller lists it for a very low price. (could have been a wrong id issue, or a typo when entering the price..or any other reason).
Question 1: What would you do?
Now to make it a bit more complex, here is a variation.
Question 2: The seller, known indirectly to you, is a millionaire. What would you do?
Or
Question 3: The seller, known indirectly to you, is selling his stamps to pay for his sick mother's operation...or to send his kids to college.
Question 4: Now in the same vein, what is a very inexpensive stamp is listed at a very high price, for what ever reason... Would you seek to have the price corrected?
Curious....
rrr...
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01:01:43pm
Auctions - Approvals
re: A simple question?
I have probably sent out more than a dozen "wrong price" notifications over the years - the last one three weeks ago (30 cents which should have been thirty dollars).
My answer is the same for questions 1, 2 and 3 - what's right is right and others have notified me of a few errors over the years - it's all about karma.
As to question 4 I guess I would look over his listings to determine if it was an error or if all of his prices were ridiculous - one dealer on Hipstamps has an apparent minimum price of a dollar on all MNH stamps - yes, including all those scrap postage US 3 and 4 cent issues. No point in contacting him.
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re: A simple question?
I try to do the right thing. Let the seller know he may have made a mistake. Sometimes it is hard to tell from just a scan if the item is misidentified. It doesn't matter how much money the seller has, none of my business. Pretty simple question, just try to do the right thing. I don't bother to let a seller know if he has an item way over priced, the market will tell him it is too high by not getting a buyer.
Vince
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01:58:08pm
re: A simple question?
I feel slightly different. We hobbyists always enjoy a certain "cherrypicker" aspect to our hobby. Part of the fun of this entire endeavor of collecting is the random chance that a stamp will be misidentified or we'll find that hidden, overlooked gem in the pile of otherwise dusty schwag.
If it's a fellow club member, I'm telling them about the mis-identification because, to me, when you enter into that "club relationship" with people there's a tacit understanding that we go above and beyond the simple rules of fair business and we set the bar a little higher to not only "be fair" in our dealings with each other but to also "be good".
-Ernie
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re: A simple question?
And a simple variation on the question:
5. You work for a reputable stamp company and your job is to purchase collections.
A seller offers you a collection, and in it is a misidentified stamp, that is worth a mint vs peanuts. (Say a US C3a instead of C3..to take an extreme case).
Now what do you do?
rrr...
I actually thought of another variation:
6. You are selling stamps to the above reputable stamp company, and in the lot you are selling, known to you (or you may just be suspicious) but not obvious to anyone except the most highly sophisticated experts, is a counterfeit stamp instead of the one cataloging for a lot of money. You are selling the collection for a friend in need.
Now what do you do?
rrr...
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re: A simple question?
The variations can be endless, we might forget which ones we are answering to !!
Methinks someone is a little bored !!
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re: A simple question?
I agree with Londonbus1, how many more variations will there be. Maybe the question you are really asking is "how comfortable are you with getting over on someone who clearly made a mistake in identifying and pricing their stamp?"
My comfort level/conscious lets me know right away. It's really easy to try to do the right thing and treat people the way you want to be treated.
Vince
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re: A simple question?
Another couple variations:
1) The seller is Donald Trump ... or Hilary Clinton.
2) The seller thought it was listed in US$ but buyers see it listed in the 30% devalued CA$.
3A) The seller is you and the buyer is me.
3B) The seller is "yo mama".
4) The seller is actually an investigative reporter for the New York Times doing a feature on stamp buyers who will complain to the Supreme Court if there is an undisclosed blemish found under a microscopic view and demand twice their money back under threat of posting a bad review - while at the same time trolling to find innocent typos or tyros they can exploit with nary a polite word uttered.
As I've always told my kids - all other outlandish "what-ifs" are nice over a couple dozen single malts, but bottom line always think of #3 and #4 and your explanation to your mom about why you did what you did...
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re: A simple question?
That reminds me - I've got to check my US Divestiture Auction and see if grrrrrrrrrraphy has any bids in...
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re: A simple question?
Dave,
You just changed the whole meaning of this thread. If it was Donald or Hillary I would punch them in the throat and just take the stamp then have a few single malts.
Vince
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04:42:22pm
re: A simple question?
My father always said "if you dont know the right thing to do....just do the right thing"
It is what I believe and it is what I have told my sons.
The advice sounds contradictory but of course it is very clear......just do the right thing.
There is often some implied "win some, lose some" in all transactions. But notwithstanding that we all have subjective views on "right and wrong", there is an objective "right and wrong".
To answer the question what would I do, I am pretty sure that I would tell the vendor but I hope that the vendor would be so impressed by my honesty that I would reach a compromise with the vendor and we would both emerge as winners.
Yet I do hold a grudge against a Dealer who ripped me off thirty odd years ago. And I think thats normal. All stamp collectors conversations revolve around good and bad experiences we have had with the same dealers. And just recently I saw my "Bad Dealer" boast about ripping off somebody else.
So yes ....if I ever got a chance to blind-side that "Bad Dealer", I would take it. I would chalk it up as a victory for the "good guys" and Karma.
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re: A simple question?
Hi Everyone;
Edited by Tuskie:
I'm sorry for this reply....I should never talk to humans after more than one beer!!!
Just slinkin' out....
TuskenRaider
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08:14:45pm
re: A simple question?
Yo T'Raider...
I totally understand where you're coming from but I just think the stamp trade is different. I know there'll be 7 people jump in a vehemently disagree but the buying and selling of collectible stamps has an inherent speculative nature to it... we expect, no wait, we DEMAND that there be some level of Las Vegas to the entire enterprise. We buy "mystery lots" eagerly convincing ourselves that there will be something nice in there. We fly speck looking for some Uber rare variety that will be named after us, we scour catalogs seeing if our favorite country is going up or down. Everyone who has been doing this for any amount of time loves collecting and enjoying the stamps but he or she also loves the hunt. Grabbing that great stamp at an even better price. If you get something that is mislabeled. ..it's kind of part of the game. Don't hate the player, hate the game!
-Ernie
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re: A simple question?
It might be interesting to go over a very similar thread started by Guthrum a while back: An Ethical Dilemma
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09:02:25pm
re: A simple question?
Thanks Clive ... I just read my post on the other thread. I'm pleased to see I was consistent hahahah!
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re: A simple question?
I think this thread is about a seller that misidentified an expensive stamp and is selling it for an extremely low price. I don't think the original post was about buying lots or buying low value stamps on ebay. Part of the fun in buying large lots is the chance I might find something valuable but since my collecting has become more specialized I stay away from large lots now, I just don't have the time to work on them.
Vince
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re: A simple question?
How would you feel if they didn't tell you and bought the stamp at a low price and later you found that it was a rare gem.
Do unto other as you would wish them to do to you. I would tell them that it might be more valuable and that you think they should have a look at it again.
As I get older, I find it harder and harder to identify stamps. I certainly hope one of you would let me know if you see one on my approval list that could be very valuable.
Just be nice to everyone and this whole world just might change to be better.
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re: A simple question?
To me this is simple. I have bought several misidentified stamps. I intentionally look for them. One of the most common is a rare plate number that has a minor listing. The pedestrian stamp is $1 and the rare plate number is $10. Happens all the time. I have no obligation to educate the seller.
If it's a VERY expensive mistake, I don't believe it. Period. I have seen WAY too many situations where a seller claims to have found some dusty collection that hasn't seen the light of day for over 50 years and there it is. That rarity you love to find, like a US 356 10c Washington coil, CV $3250. Without a cert I assume it's a cut down 338 ($2 used) with a cleaned cancel and maybe a regum.
So I believe your hypothetical is fantasy. The reality is that we all need to be alert to the scams that are actively run to make us think we are in one of those fantasies.
Lars
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re: A simple question?
I think it depends on the situation and its a range of situations to me. On one end, find a gem in a mystery lot, kiloware, boxed lot etc., then great. You did the work so you deserve the reward.
Maybe less obvious, buy a collection from a large dealer or an auction house, and find a gem there. Sure, its legit to keep. Buying those collections can be risky.
By a single or misidentified set from a big dealer, like NY Stamps or from an Auction house. Hmm. I don't think I'd sweat too much here.
Buy from a fellow collector or an average Joe that doesn't know or probably couldn't know what they have. If worth a significant amount, whatever that is, I think the right thing to do is fork over some extra funds to the poor sod. Read "Nassau Street" by Herman Herst Jr. if you need a decent role model to follow.
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re: A simple question?
"Buy from a fellow collector or an average Joe that doesn't know or probably couldn't know what they have. If worth a significant amount, whatever that is, I think the right thing to do is fork over some extra funds to the poor sod."
I don't agree. The seller had a chance to go through a knowledgeable dealer but chose to do it himself. No different than a house seller that doesn't want to pay a real estate agent commission. Some times that works out, sometimes not so much. If someone is out of their league, it's not my job to educate them.
However, in a club setting or a situation where you are advising the seller, then it is absolutely your duty to inform the seller of their error. If I know you, I will point out your error. If you're selling anonymously on eBay, I have zero obligation to point out your mistake.
If you won an auction at an estate sale and knew the lot was worth a lot more than your final bid, would you offer to pay more?
Lars
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re: A simple question?
"... If you won an auction at an estate sale and knew the lot was worth a lot more than your final bid, would you offer to pay more? ..."
Three possibilities:
1) A lot is worth more than you are paying ... which is why you bought it
2) A lot is worth less than you are paying ... which is why you think that the world owes you #1
3) A lot is worth exactly what you are paying ... fuggedaboudit
Cheers,
/s/ ikeyPikey
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re: A simple question?
I think the estate sale is the key part of the question. If I were to find a load of rarities at bargain prices sold by a clueless widow or close family member, I would feel obligated to inform them of the value of the items and possibly offer more than they want. For heathen me, I would feel it was obligatory to cut a fair deal. "What goes around, comes around."
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Silence in the face of adversity is the father of complicity and collusion, the first cousins of conspiracy..
26 Nov 2016
02:05:11am
re: A simple question?
Both this thread and the one referred to by Ningpo "An Ethical Dilemma" fall into the category of Situational Ethics. A tricky area for many people who are usually quite adept at discovering justification for their action. When probed their decisions becomes tangled and contradictory as circumstances are changed. Often they get angry.
Those, in either thread who say "What is right, is right and what is not right does not magically become right by circumstances or the seller's perceived station in life or society. seldom consider such contrived dilemmas difficult to deal with.
I taught my children a foolproof way to determine the correctness of a choice.
"First get a long legal sized yellow pad. Draw a line across the top and a second line down through the center. Above the left side write "yes" and the right side "no". Then list all the reasons on the side they fall on.
Consider which side has the overwhelming preponderance of reasons. Then," (and this is the key.)" Follow your gut. because honest people will feel bad about choosing something not right and happy when they do the right thing..."
I've never felt good about doing the wrong thing.
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